All language subtitles for Philly.D.A.S01E03.1080p.WEBRip.x264-BAE_Track03

narrator: Previously,
on "Philly D.A."...

- Krasner promises big changes
to the city's justice system.

- I will not seek
the death penalty.

- Just stand on your word.

Stand on what
you committed to doing.

- Weapon.

- He's never been pro-law
enforcement.

- He did need to do
a house cleaning. He did.

- There are people
who don't want

to see him change anything.

- What do you think
we're missing?

- You don't take kids charged
with misdemeanors

and put them
in detention centers.

- You don't have
to destroy the system

to get the results you want.

♪

- Around the country,
in communities as diverse

as Ferguson, Minneapolis,
Philadelphia,

races for district attorneys
could transform

the criminal justice system.

One such race is taking place
in Boston, Massachusetts,

where progressive
Rachael Rollins

won the Democratic primary.

♪

- I woke up September 5,
and was like,

"Oh my God, this is amazing."

And then you realize
what a big job it is, right?

What keeps me awake
is the first homicide

or the child or the really
sort of violent crimes that...

how much of your time
is spent on those?

- Well, I mean, we have about
300 homicides a year.

- 300? Wow.
- Yeah.

We have... you know,
approximately one every day.

How many you have in Boston?

- We don't have more than
50 a year, which is excellent.

- Okay, well, that helps.
- Yeah.

I'm lucky I have you.
I have Kim Foxx.

I have people I can actually
look at and say...

- There's a lot, there's
a lot of progressive D.A.s.

We have each other's cell
phones and we call each other

when we want advice
about decisions.

Let me just pass on
to you a couple things

that I got from them.

You gotta figure out
who's gotta go.

Because if you leave
certain people in there,

the potential for you
to actually form that office

into what you want it
to be is gone.

I asked about 30...
- I read about it.

- About 30 attorneys to go.

And-and I should have
asked more to go.

They dig in like ticks.

They undermine you
at every turn.

And when you do something
like hold... you know,

hold police accountable
or overturn a conviction,

they say, "Krasner doesn't
have our backs."

With Kim Foxx, they were
spreading the laughable rumor

that she's gonna fire
every white person.

- Well, that's what
they're saying about me.

I'm just saying I want
to be deliberate

when we're hiring people,
that's it.

Like, nobody's saying
you're all fired

and it's gonna turn into Wakanda

from frigging "Black Panther."

- Yeah.
[laughter]

- But just...
- I love it.

I love it.

[light music]

♪

[indistinct chatter]

- Good afternoon.

It's hard to believe
that three years ago today,

Sergeant Wilson made
the ultimate sacrifice

in protecting the citizens
of this city.

At this time,
I would like to bring up

Rob's sister, Shakira.

- Thank you for everyone
to be here.

It's hard.
Very hard.

Not having Robbie
with us stings every day.

The moments when we want
to pick up the phone,

to share a fun story or event,

cook a new dish and just have
him come over and try it.

He was my best friend.

I want to thank everyone who
was here in the 22nd District.

Those that call,

send a message,
we appreciate it,

when those nights get real quiet

and feel like no one's there.

[percussive music]

♪

- The big story tonight,

the death of a Philadelphia
police officer.

- Robert Wilson III
went inside the GameStop

at 21st and Lehigh Avenue.

Moments later,
two armed suspects

walked in
and announced a hold-up.

- More than 50 shots were fired,

and Officer Wilson saved lives
by maneuvering

that gun battle away
from customers and employees.

- I've seen a lot
of heroic actions

on the part of police officers.

I've not seen any

that rose above
what I saw on that video.

- District Attorney
Seth Williams says

he is likely to seek the
death penalty for both men.

- Individuals that
so cowardly gunned down

a uniformed Philadelphia
police officer

would seem appropriate
for the death penalty.

- Officer Wilson
was in the store

shopping for a gift for his son.

- The 30-year-old officer
was taken to a local hospital,

where he died of his injuries.

Wilson leaves behind two sons,

ages nine and one,
as well as his grandmother.

[sirens blaring]

[birds chirping]

[distant chatter]

- I've got a museum going here.

[chuckles]

And this one here, the artist
did this after he was killed.

He did that with his medals
on him and all.

Robert Wilson III.

This one, he just come out
of the academy, right here.

And then this one over here
is where I went

to meet the President, Obama.

Awards and all.
All over.

They bring them in,
I put them up.

[chuckles]

Then he's more mature
in this one.

It looks like he's looking
right at you, don't it?

Everywhere you walk, look like
he's looking right at you.

That's Robert.

He was a nice-tempered
young man to raise.

He always had a smile.
He had his arms open.

He said, "Bring it in."
He'd always hugging and all.

That's him in the white suit.

Him and his sister together.

She misses him.
We all miss him.

Think about him every day,
every minute of the day.

It was something
that didn't have to be.

I mean, they could
have left the store.

I mean, they seen
a police officer was in there.

But he protected the people.

He lost his life behind it,

but he did was
he was supposed to do.

[somber music]

♪

Years ago,
a police officer was killed,

the automatic
was death sentence.

But now, they try to...
What's his name?

The District Attorney,
he ain't for it.

We're not backing down,

so he might as well get used
to hearing us.

Get used to looking at us.

Because if Robbie was alive,
he'd do the same thing for us.

And we're not gonna
let them walk all over him.

♪♪

- We asked Larry Krasner
to join us on "Radio Times."

He was a guest
when he was a candidate.

Now he is the Philadelphia
District Attorney.

And nice to have you back
with us on Radio Times.

- Thank you, Marty.
- Now, I know you campaigned

in opposition
to the death penalty.

Seth Williams, your predecessor,

said in this case that he would
seek the death penalty.

Is this a test case for you

as an opponent
of the death penalty?

- The death penalty
is just not a great idea.

It's very much
an eye for an eye.

That has been one aspect

of our District Attorney's
office for a very long time.

- Philadelphia District
Attorney Lynne Abraham

has become known as
the country's deadliest D.A.,

the woman who will aggressively
pursue capital punishment.

- It's a vindication
of society's right

to exact the ultimate penalty

against those who would try
to bring society to its knees.

My sense of when
I saw that tape...

- Lynne very much approached
every homicide as,

"I'm gonna charge first degree,

"whether or not it's
a first-degree case or not.

I'm gonna seek
the death penalty."

And the result is that
you have a significant portion

of the row of mostly black
and brown men

who are there because
of where they happen to live.

They happen to be
from Philadelphia.

- Reaches and touches
everything...

Everybody says, "Well, you're
the Queen of Death."

I never imposed
the death penalty on anybody.

It was always the jury
that decided that penalty.

Did I ask for it
when appropriate?

Yes.
Police officer gets killed.

If Krasner doesn't use
the death penalty,

what does that do?

It tells you that these guys

don't think your life
is worth anything.

- I have expressed repeatedly
that I personally

have problems
with the death penalty,

based upon my having served
on a death penalty jury,

and also having defended
these cases.

Since 1962, we have found
six innocent people,

proven by DNA to be innocent,
who were on death row.

If I could waive a wand,

I would change policy
on this issue.

That's not my obligation
as a public official.

It's to consider the specifics.

- To me, the biggest
exciting thing

about Larry Krasner's candidacy

was that he said he will
never use the death penalty.

So Larry gets elected.

You know the pushback
that he's getting from

the FOP and the legal
community and prosecutors

and their friends
and their families,

and I think that will be
a very big challenge.

[distant sirens]

- We need to have this capital
committee a month ago.

We have active cases pending.

- How many cases would you say?

- There may be as many as ten.

And in all of those cases,
up until this point,

this office will have been
arguing aggressively

for maintaining
an existing death penalty.

And there's gotta be
some sort of decision

as to whether or not
we want to continue to do that,

and the committee that has
to look at that doesn't exist.

- Is the committee gonna be
basically deciding

that we're no longer seeking
the death sentence?

Is that...
- No. No.

The reason for the committee

is so that every case
can be individually reviewed,

and a decision comes
out of the committee:

either we're going to continue
with the position

that the prior
administration took,

or we're not going to.

It has to be
Larry's final decision.

- Yeah.

- Hi.
How are you?

- Good, thank you.
- Okay.

- Sorry to invade.
- No problem.

Do you want to see
the whole lead-up?

- Yeah, I do.
- Okay.

- Let's see the whole thing.
- Okay.

You see everything that happens.

People in the video store,

and Sergeant Wilson in there,
on a break.

He's looking at video games,

chatting with people
behind the counter.

And these two young guys

on a terrible spree
of robberies come rushing in,

and Sergeant Wilson moves away
from the counter,

from a safer position,

to one where he's just out
in the middle.

They're firing at him,
and he's firing at them.

And fairly quickly, he's killed.

It's horrible.

The priority District
Attorney's office had said

they were going to seek
the death penalty.

We have to make that decision.

♪

- Suspects in the murder of

Philadelphia police officer
Robert Wilson III

are due in court today
for a pre-trial hearing.

- The issue at hand here

is whether or not
the death penalty

will be sought
by D.A. Larry Krasner.

- We may learn that District
Attorney Larry Krasner

is keeping his promise never
to seek the death penalty.

- Now that campaign
commitment is being tested

in the killing
of a police officer,

only widening the divide
between Philadelphia police

and the D.A.'s office.

- Good morning, Commissioner.
- Commissioner.

- Moment of your time, please.
- What's the word?

- Well, it was continued.
Right now, as I understand it,

there was a continuance request
on the part of the defense.

They're not ready.

Obviously, you have to take
into account the frustration

that comes into play
for their family.

You know, they're very upset
about what they think

is gonna happen, relative
to potential sentencing.

- Thanks, Commissioner.
- Thank you, Commissioner.

- Thank you for your time.

- The FOP is right here.

Hey, John.

- How are you?
- Good, buddy. How are you?

The Commissioner
called it frustration.

John, what did you see up there?

- Yeah, I mean, that's a good
way to categorize it.

It's a shame
for the Wilson family.

They need answers.

I mean, if there's ever
a classic case

for a death penalty case,
this is it.

- Here we go.

- Hi.
- How are you?

- Okay.
Our family is angry.

We're very angry.

This D.A.
is not for the victims.

My brother was a hero.

He gave his all,
what he signed up to do,

the oath that he took
to become an officer.

He stood up and protected
those citizens in that store.

Krasner should be doing
the same for my brother.

- The first group Krasner fired
had that case sewed up,

was nothing else,
and all he needed to do

was go forward and try it.

He backed it up.
Something wrong here.

Now, you supposed to be the
District Attorney of the city.

Do it right.

- This is a capital case.

It deserves capital punishment.

And nothing less.
Nothing less.

[somber music]

♪

- For months, I've been working
with the juvenile unit

to frame a new set of policies

about how we should be
prosecuting children.

A lot of the supervisors coming
from the last administration

disagree with these policies.

And so one of the things
that I've done is really tried

to have open forum with those
administrators and supervisors,

so I can understand
why they disagree.

Here's my beef.

I ask people, wherever I've gone

throughout this country
one simple question, okay?

In our juvenile justice system
in your area,

would you want to put
your kids in that system

and send them to out of home
placement programs

that we're sending kids to?

You wouldn't want
your kids there.

- No.

- I wouldn't want my kids there.

We really have to find a way

to get other peoples' kids
out of there.

We're locking up too many kids.
We really are.

- Yeah.

- Can we get the data
on placements for the year,

so when we look at it,
we see where we are now?

Because I want to see
the population go down.

I know... I know,
looking at the benchmarks,

I can tell whether
we're succeeding or not.

- Can you guys start saving
the detention list sheets

on the aids drive,
so that people can see them?

- I don't know how meaningful
that would be.

I mean, you don't know
what we know.

- When you read a file,
you're gonna then make

a judgment based upon
you're reading the file.

You don't put it
into a computer system.

I mean, just saying, like...
- Yeah.

- The case number and all that,

but we don't have the type
of system where she could go in

and she can find out
why we did what we did,

because we wrote in,
"Kid not going to school."

"Kid... dut-dut-dut."

- With all of that understood,

I think that if offer sheets
were available,

so any person in this office
could look and be like,

"Oh, today, X number of offers
were made on lead charges..."

- We have that.

- That would be
a really meaningful...

- No, we keep that stat.
- All of this stuff...

- It's in a binder.
- In an ideal world,

would be transparent.

Because getting access
to information

is a big pain in the butt.

- I really want all these stats

so I can look at it
across the board.

[gentle music]

♪

[phone rings]

♪

- We handle... I think last year

it was like 2,200 cases
that came through the system.

Simple assaults, rapes,

possession of guns, arson.

We're not robots of, like,
conviction, move on, move on.

I mean, people want to make sure

that they can make a difference.

And we're running a busy unit,

so for me to keep data myself
isn't gonna happen.

- I think I'm the first
criminologist

to work on the office.

Data was not regularly used.

It has not been part
of the culture in this office.

We think that policy
should be data-driven,

and Larry has asked me
to be responsible

for getting the data,

having the conversations
around data.

People seemed enthused by it,
so by golly let's do it.

We're trying to get data
from the juvenile unit,

and I emailed this to Bob,

but it might be
that people in here

are also not as happy
to share data

as people out in the city.

So that's just a trouble

I've run into
with the juvenile unit.

- Well, I mean,
there definitely are

some privacy aspects
to juvenile stuff,

so I wouldn't assume
that they're being willful.

I don't know.
But what are the issues?

- They gave access to Carly and
they didn't give access to me.

So it's not necessarily...

- Who's "they"?
- Lisa Harvey.

They have, like,
a database software.

But I don't know, frankly,
what they have on there,

because they don't share it.

- Did you talk to her?

- I sent emails,
multiple emails.

I went down and had
a data meeting with her.

And it's been two weeks.

So it's just... just seems
like needless obfuscation.

- I will be happy to have
a longer talk with people

if they're
not giving you access.

- Great.

- 'Cause they should
give you access.

- Yeah.

[lively music]

♪

[indistinct chatter]

- Good morning, everyone.

I'd like to welcome
everybody here today again

to our annual breakfast.

I've come share a couple
minutes with our families

who lost a loved one
protecting their communities.

[applause]

This is something we do
every year for the families

of those fallen
in the line of duty.

It's a way of us giving back,

and it's a way to show
that they're not forgotten.

Robert Wilson's family
is here today.

We're not happy
with the District Attorney.

We're not happy about the way
he handles the case

not only with the Wilson family

but other families of murder
victims around the city.

♪♪

- Today, on "Off the Cuff
Declassified,"

I'm gonna give you
the infuriating story

of a police officer murdered,

and how the far left District
Attorney in Philadelphia,

Larry Krasner, is
denying his family justice.

These savage murderers
should get the death penalty.

- Now Pennsylvania hasn't
actually used the death penalty

even for those
who were sentenced on it.

- Right.
It's symbolic.

At least it says to the family
the life mattered.

We're not cutting deals
behind your back.

You know, Black lives don't
matter when they were blue.

- Krasner,
from his campaign to date,

has stated his moral
and personal obligation

never to seek the death penalty.

I am basically
going to parallel this

to a situation in Florida.

Do you know
the name Aramis Ayala?

- State Attorney
Aramis Ayala announced

she wasn't seeking
the death penalty

against accused cop
killer Markeith Loyd,

in this case or any other.

- While I currently do
have discretion

to pursue death sentences,
I have determined that doing so

is not in the best interest
of this community

or the best interest of justice.

It's not just because
I am the first black elected

State Attorney
in the State of Florida

that I think differently.

It's bigger than that.

I have a different concept
of justice.

We have seen that
the use of discretion

historically was
never a problem.

But when the face
of the prosecutor changed,

now discretion has gone too far.

- Ayala received backlash from
lawmakers and law enforcement.

- Governor Scott removed her

from nearly two dozen
death penalty cases.

- For the State Attorney Ayala
to say she's not gonna pursue

the death penalty is an outrage.

- Shortly after his
public statements,

then the letters
start rolling in.

I receive a noose
that reminds me,

"a nigga will also
just be a nigga,"

threatening my life,
reminding me

that I have children.

Those are very real things.

- Remember something:
a prosecutor,

whether it's Ayala in Florida
or Krasner in Philadelphia,

can't create the law.

So I am imploring
Pennsylvania voters

to start creating legislation
to put checks and balances

in place for local
elected officials

who derelict their duty.

- Rolling.
- Rolling.

We're ready, guys.

- So let's talk about
capital punishment.

Right now, the Officer Wilson
case is still a capital case,

which your office is
making decisions about,

whether it remains
a capital case.

Is that right?
- Right.

The situation in this office
for decades has been

that there's a committee
that considers cases

that are potentially
capital cases

and decides whether or not
to pursue death.

That committee will
make recommendations to me,

and a decision will be made.

We're just not
at that point yet.

- Family members, though,
have been very vocal

about what they want to see.

His grandmother says
"This must be a capital case."

You've met with family members,
have you not?

- I met with grandmother
and with sister for two hours.

They need to have their voice.
They don't get a veto,

but they need
to have their voice

when we make a decision.

- There may come a day
where your committee says

this should be a capital case,

despite your promise
on the campaign trail.

How difficult would that be
for you to stand by

what this committee recommends?

- I have a duty here
that I will complete.

I will pursue my duty.

But there's nothing inconsistent

about pursuing your duty
and having a personal opinion

that the death penalty
is a bad thing.

- What do you say to people

who criticize you
as favoring criminals?

- I say the following:

Sergeant Wilson was killed
during the last administration,

after 25 years of criminal
justice policies

that just beat their chest
and locked up

more and more people.

It didn't work.

- But do you favor criminals,
is the question?

- Of course not.
- Right.

- Come on, now.

- Anything else, guys?

- Yes. Before you... yep.

- Off the record, if you'd like.

Is there a time frame
when you expect this committee

to decide on the Wilson case?

- Are we recording?

I just want to be clear
about what's going on.

- We are recording.

- So this is all still
on the record.

- Yeah.
- Yeah, fair enough.

- So these guys were picked up
and charge soon after.

Why is it taking
the defense so long?

- The amount of work associated
with a death penalty case

is at least twice
the amount of work

associated with
a serious homicide.

- So it's not concerning to you
that it's taking this amount...

- As I said...
- We're done.

He's gotta go.
It's 3:00.

I've got somewhere
else he's gotta be.

- No problem. I thought
we had a couple minutes.

- Thank you.

- Thanks for having us.
- Thank you.

- Hey, so I just want
to make sure...

[indistinct conversation]

It literally was, like,
a greatest hits of

as many negative questions
as this guy could ask.

He was just trying to trip up
Larry as much as he could.

And then the thing at the end,

where they said
we're off the record,

and then they kept on filming,
and then they got...

and then he immediately
jumps into, like,

the most controversial [bleep]
that he could...

that was unbelievable.

And I don't think I helped
by coming over

and telling him
to go [bleep] himself.

That probably wasn't, like,

the most helpful thing
that's ever happened.

- I feel honored to be
the first victim

to ever sit in the head seat
of Victim Services.

And I see that as a privilege
and something

that I do not take lightly.

We're gonna do
some amazing work together,

and we will not be
harming victims

that we are supposed
to be helping.

That's my goal.

After losing my son,

the Victim Services
that were supposed to help me

wasn't available
when I needed help.

That's one of the reasons
why I came into the office...

was to fix the broken parts
of the system.

You want to say something,
Larry?

- I just have a couple comments.

You have been in a climate
that at times has been one

where the families
are so close to the prosecutor

that their opinions are
not actually their opinions.

Their opinions are coming
from what District Attorneys

have told them they should want,

not what they really want.

That is not your primary job.
- Right.

- Your primary job
is to work for victims,

to help victims
with what they need.

It is not to talk them
into a sentence the D.A. wants,

whether that's a good one
or a bad one.

So I'm asking you to think
about how your role

can at times
be a little bit different

than what other
people might want.

- Sergeant Wilson's
grandmother and sister

have been very vocal.

But it was common knowledge
that he had two children,

and the mothers of the children

had not been in conversation.

Hey, how are you?

I reached out to the mothers
and found out

they don't want the death
penalty for the two young men.

Absolutely.

They want something
totally different

from what the grandmother
and sister want.

You are technically
the next of kin of Rob Wilson.

It's appalling that
this office has not listened

to the next of kin.

What they've done
is listen to the person

who's been the loudest.

And that's not fair.

I'm so sorry that this office
did not represent you.

You are co-victims of homicide.
I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

Right.

I can understand those mothers
not wanting the death penalty.

I can understand them
just wanting it to be over

so that they can
raise their children.

Okay, I'll text you
my email address now, okay?

Here's the thing:

the death penalty
ain't death in Pennsylvania.

No one has received a lethal
injection since the '60s.

Most people who get
a death penalty case,

those families spend years
in and out of court.

It goes on forever
for these families.

But we got some
old-school lawyers

who like the death penalty.

- I've been a lawyer
for 39 years,

and I came to
the D.A.'s office in 1981.

So I've been in
the office 37 years.

I've been in homicide
over 30 years.

This is rewarding work
when you see that

you're doing justice for
victims and for the families.

- Did you get that box,
by the way?

- No, I didn't.

It's our obligation to do
as thorough as job as pos...

in particular in this case,

because the sergeant
who was killed

is known by a lot of people
in this building.

He was a good cop.
Did a great job.

And we know that our colleagues

are looking for us
to do our best,

as is the law enforcement
generally.

- We're about to have
a meeting on the...

homicide, which the victim
was Sergeant Wilson.

And in this meeting,
we're gonna hear from

the two prosecuting attorneys,
their thoughts about the case,

including about what the
appropriate penalty is to seek.

- What Ed and I
have planned is that

I'm going to cover the portion
of the presentation

where we go into detail
about the robbery

that led up to the murder
of Sergeant Wilson.

And then obviously
I'll cover the murder itself.

Ed is going to discuss the
penalty for each defendant,

and then ultimately they'll
have their own discussion

and make their own decision

as to what's gonna happen
with the case.

Just want to hook stuff up to
the TV in the conference room.

Just want to make sure
it works right.

I don't think that
there's any other cases

that are more
death penalty appropriate

than the murder
of law enforcement.

Law enforcement doesn't just
include police officers.

It covers judges
and prosecutors too.

I don't want to say
it's one of our own,

because we are separate
and apart

from the police department,

but we are law enforcement too.

- How long is that
presentation for Larry?

- So I have a quick video
of the robbery.

I have a trimmed-down version
of a surveillance video

and the body cam video.

- You might want
to be prepared to say,

"I have this video,"
the way you just

explained it to me,
and he may say,

"We're not interested
in the first robbery,

or you can describe
that for us."

- But I don't know that
everybody has seen

the body cam video.
- Right.

- And obviously Larry's
seen everything.

- And then after
the presentation,

there will be a discussion.

But you won't be there
for the discussion.

I also don't think
we're gonna walk out

of that meeting tonight
knowing one way

or the other
what his final decision is.

- Right, obviously we have
the status hearing on Monday.

- And he's well aware of that.
- Okay.

- And I told him as much lead
time as humanly possible,

because family's involved.

Say sundown on Friday,
so that gives you guys time

to speak to them
over the weekend

in advance of Monday,
9:00 a.m.

All right.
- All right.

- We'll see you in 25 minutes.

- Hey, Ed.

I was just told by Anthony

that they probably don't want
to see any of our video.

[uneasy music]

♪

- Thank you.
- Yeah.

- Hey, Ed, how many times
do you think

you've had to present the facts

in a potential
death penalty case?

- Zero, 'cause they didn't used
to do things like this.

♪

[indistinct chatter]

♪

Wish I had some bourbon.

[indistinct chatter]

- Yeah, we should, since
those guys are squeezed in.

- Gentlemen, this is not
for public consumption.

- Thank you.

♪

- [sighs]

They've been at it, what,
three hours?

Whatever they do,
there's repercussions.

The depth of the
repercussions...

I don't know.

I mean, some people
are gonna be upset either way.

And the reality of it is,
no matter...

whether death is sought
or not sought,

the reality of it is these guys

are never getting out of jail,

one way or the other.

Unfortunately, one thing you
can't change is what happened.

♪♪

- That meeting was
pretty disappointing.

They came in
and gave this presentation.

And certainly it was accurate
about the details of the crime,

and that was very important
to understand.

And then we get to this
high-resolution photograph

of Wilson's grandmother
and his sister

with the word "victims"
across the top.

They were saying,

"The family... the family
wants the death penalty."

There were no pictures
of the kids,

mothers of the kids.

I started questioning them,
"Why is there a picture here

"that doesn't show
these other family members?

Who took the picture?"

The answer was
that the slideshow

had been prepared by the FOP.

So we got this in the mailbox.

It says, "Idiot.

The yo-yos that killed
Robert Wilson should burn."

Sent to our house.

- How often to you
get mail like that?

- Not very often.
- Not very often.

- That might be our first one.

- We get it at work sometimes.

- That's the first one...
- And it gets vetted.

- That's been sent
to the house, that I've seen.

- Well, we have security.

- Okay.

[uneasy music]

♪

- One of the hardest things
since I've come

into this office has been
changing the culture.

We're still having to push back

against some of the old stuff.

And that's what it was
yesterday in that meeting.

Like, death, death, death.

Even when the co-victims
don't want it.

Death.

Who has the right
to put anyone to death?

It's not my right to want...

Even for the boys
that murdered my son.

It's not right for me
to want death for them.

So it's the culture.

Okay, let's call my girl.

[phone beeps, line ringing]

Hey, I'm sorry.
I got out of here so late

that I didn't get
the opportunity to call you.

So I told the committee

that you are very concerned
for your children,

that you do not want them
to ever see that video,

and that you do not want them
having to grow up

in and out of court
because of appeals.

Really?

Ed should not have called you.

He didn't have the right
to call you.

The only reason
why he called you

is because I spoke
on your behalf.

Right, but they
haven't been concerned

about listening to your voice
all this time.

So now they just want you
to agree to a death penalty,

because that's what they want.

But they're not even
considering what's best

for you and your child.

Yeah.
I'll talk to you soon.

All right.
Bye, bye.

Wow.

The politics.

He hasn't advocated for those
women or those children once

since that officer was murdered.

He has only listened
to the grandmother.

He has only buddied up
with the FOP,

and they're the victims.

These children have to grow up
in the city without a father.

Excuse me.
Hello?

[mid-tempo electronic music]

♪

- I got to drive back from
Harrisburg with Bob yesterday.

- How was that?
- Oh, it was great.

Have you heard of darning?

You can darn a sock?
- Yeah.

- See, I never heard of it,
so I thought...

Bob mentioned it,
like, "Oh, darn."

- You've never darned your sock?

- I haven't darned anything.

Or I said I darned
lots of things,

'cause I was like,
"That darn cat.

This darn this and this..."

- Do people not teach
Ben these basic life skills?

Bob, you know how
to darn a sock?

[laughter]

- We were talking about it
last night.

- Do you know how
to darn a sock?

- Of course
I know how to darn a sock.

- I didn't even know
what darn was.

- He thought I was kidding.

He thought darning a sock
was cursing it.

[indistinct chatter]

- Lisa was with
the last administration.

She was chief
of the juvenile unit.

Lisa has been a personal
friend for a long time.

But D.A. Krasner
has a different vision,

and a decision was made
that we needed someone else.

Lisa is still in
the juvenile unit.

She expressed a desire
to stay in the unit.

But D.A. Krasner has replaced
almost all the supervisors

in the District Attorney's
office.

- I was really surprised.
I shouldn't have been.

At that point,
100 people had been gone,

either fired, removed.

I think it was me and
insurance fraud

still standing.

- How do you use
your institutional knowledge

and memory to help
the new administration?

[gentle music]

♪

- I...

They don't want it.

[overlapping chatter]

- Let's talk about
the stuff that matters.

Mr. Listenbee is gonna
introduce some people.

- Okay, I'm very pleased
to introduce to you,

in her new position,
Miss Ebony Wortham

as the supervising attorney
for juvenile.

Previously
an assistant supervisor.

[applause]

Ebony Wortham understands

juvenile justice practices
and policies.

She understands
what D.A. Krasner wants.

When you have
a different vision,

sometimes it takes
new leadership

in order to implement
that vision,

and we've reached that point.

I really need the opinion
of a cross-section of folks

that are in this room to really
get the policies done right.

- I just don't want to have
people who are stuck

in this entrenched culture
to silence everyone else

who has come here
to make a difference.

- Okay, we should
figure out why kids

are being sent to placement.

What do you think
makes the most sense?

- Overhaul of crossover court
would really sort of dismantle

some of the dysfunction
that we see.

- It's bad.
- It's bad.

And the young people end up
God knows where.

- This is a map
of the different locations

where youth can be sent
in the state of Pennsylvania.

You might as well be sending
some of these kids to Canada.

- Do you think
we should use "youth"

or "child" or "juvenile"?

- I think "juvenile"
has become derogatory.

But whatever word you use
is gonna become derogatory.

- We're at a point where
we actually recommend

our policies to the D.A.

- We're not asking
for random drug screens

as a condition of probation
unless there's a reason

to believe that the child
has a drug problem.

- The metaphor that
I have found most useful

is the idea of shrinking
the footprint,

making the system smaller
and less damaging.

- The ADA should recommend
an alternative

to detention
at the time of any new arrest.

- And avoid
criminalizing normal,

albeit unwanted,
adolescent behavior.

- So how soon are we gonna roll
this out and scare everybody?

[whistling]

[indistinct chatter]

[camera shutters clicking]

The policies set forth here
seek to shrink

the footprint of Philadelphia's
juvenile justice system

by decreasing
the number of youths

sent to juvenile placement.

- The District Attorney's
Office says the goal

is to address
the issues of youth

while keeping the public safe.

- From the very beginning,
District Attorney Larry Krasner

insisted that his staff
develop policies

that focus on rehabilitation
and second chances

as opposed to punishment.

District Attorney Krasner's
vision and mandate

have given us the opportunity
to exercise our discretion

to improve the lives
of our children.

- Thank you, Bob.

[applause]

[bright music]

♪

- All right,
so we're just gonna jump

right into the policies.

This is about us
doing our job responsibly.

We don't want to put kids
into almost, like,

the deepest end of
the juvenile justice system.

What do you guys think?

- The use of alcohol
in juveniles in conjunction

with marijuana
is a significant issue.

Why aren't we looking
at that at all?

- With these new policies,

is that something
that we should oppose

when you have a parent
coming in being, like,

"I honestly don't know
what to do with this kid?"

- In crossover court,
we don't arrest CDs.

I'm not sure if that was
contemplated in this policy.

- I noticed that a child
that's accused

of an alleged sex crime
is not an exception.

I was just wondering, like,
the rationale behind that.

- So these are very
interesting questions

that you have raised.

It's really important
to us that we know...

we really need your feedback,

but let's try to take
a glass half-full approach.

We want this to work
for the kids,

and we want this to work
for their families.

- It's apparent that the D.A.

doesn't trust
the attorneys in his office.

We created all these
juvenile policies, and...

they didn't ask the attorneys
about any of it.

If you just have an innate
distrust of prosecutors,

there's...

Everything you do
is colored by that.

Because God forbid
they have to ask someone

that went through before,

"How did you handle
that issue?"

They told us:
"No discussion.

We don't want to hear
what you did before."

You can't throw that all out.

[somber music]

♪

- You can eat now.
- Yeah.

- You want them to warm it
or no?

- Yeah.

- The case is scheduled
for a status hearing Monday.

- The murderers need to be
on death row.

That should be their home.

Ain't no getting off
in a hundred years.

Want to put them on death row.

They want to keep them in jail,
it's on them,

but they still on death row.

So we see what happens Monday.
We'll be there.

[tense music]

♪

- In the case of
Robert Wilson's murder,

his two accused killers have
a status hearing this morning.

- The FOP has rallied
behind the family

and has encouraged supporters

to attend
this morning's hearing.

- You can bet that hearing
will be packed

with officers in blue and all
of Officer Wilson's family.

♪

[elevator dings]

♪

- Some of this stuff
just becomes a circus.

- Mm-hmm.

- And it's peoples' lives.
- Mm-hmm.

- I cried for the mother
this morning.

It was a rough weekend.

The FOP was ringing her phone
off the hook.

and she had to shut
her phone down.

She had to pull
her Facebook down,

because she didn't want people
posting stuff on her page.

- All ID'd, all ID'd.

- Breaking news from
Center City, Philadelphia.

- Two men who are accused
in this case...

they just pleaded guilty

a few minutes ago in exchange

for the death penalty
being taken off the table.

The District Attorney
spoke for five minutes,

telling the court
why he decided to offer a deal

for life without parole
plus 50 to 100 years.

The judge at one point
addressed the court

saying it is up
to the District Attorney alone

whether or not to pursue
the death penalty.

Now we're expecting to hear
from the family.

- Well, my view is that

I thought it should
have happened.

- Well, he indicated
that there were people

calling the two mothers
of Robert Wilson's children

to persuade them
to take a certain route.

And the D.A. felt it was
being driven by the FOP.

- He didn't say
individual members.

Because if we were talking
about individual members,

then he was... he would have
outlined who they were,

then that comes more
under my purview.

The FOP does not work for me.

- I did call them.

The FOP said that they would
have to do what they had to do.

Anybody else?

[uneasy music]

♪

- I'm disgusted.

This in no way
is what my brother deserved.

He upheld honor, integrity.

I can't say the same

for this D.A.'s office.

It's truly a mockery.

And it makes me feel as though

I didn't do my job
as his sister.

It's completely unfair.

It's completely unfair.

- You seemed to kind
of bristle at the idea

that Krasner was bringing
his kids into it.

- Yeah, what do his kids
have to do with any of it?

What about the family?
What about me?

What about all
the other officers

in years to come that say,
"You know what,

this District Attorney
is not gonna have my back"?

Why work that hard?
Why do anything?

That's how
some people might think.

♪

- Just double-check.

- Yes.

- So the family seems upset

from the way
the entire thing was handled.

They say they haven't heard
from you since March.

- You may have noticed that
the mothers of the children

were not there.

Anybody think about
why that might be?

- Did you ask them
not to be there?

- No, they were not asked
not to be there.

The mothers of the children
did not want to be there,

because of the amount
of pressure

that is being improperly applied

and has been improperly applied
against them for a long time.

They are the family.

Those concerns
are continuing right now.

More than that, I will not say,

because the fact is,
if things get bad enough,

I may have to take
legal action around that.

- Is that against the FOP?

- No comment.

♪

- The FOP went out of their way
to create this gap

between the police
and this office.

They were looking
for opportunities to do it.

They seized on this case.

They know that these two guys

are gonna spend the rest
of their lives in jail.

They're never getting out.
They have no chance to get out.

They've given up
their right to appeal.

- All right.
Thank you very much.

- For the people in the police
department, let's be real.

There's still trust issues
that have to be worked on.

I think all of us have
to look for the moments

and opportunities where
we can build relationships,

and I think
that only happens over time.

- Lisa, we appreciate you

for everything
that you've shown most of us,

and all your years of expertise

and helping us grow in
the District Attorney's Office.

We want to wish you
the best of luck.

- This has been my home,

and I always told everyone
I had the greatest job.

This unit will go on, and it
goes on 'cause of you guys.

I think you keep
your head down and focus on

what you need to do
as prosecutors for the city.

I appreciate all you guys,
and it's been great.

Thank you.

[applause]

I resigned,
which was very sad for me.

I thought I would
always be here.

I started in '95.

I think the decision
was pretty much made for me

when I was removed
as the chief of the unit,

because I'd been,
definitely, very sidelined.

[distant chatter]

- I'll take your candy.
- You want this?

- Yes.
- The jar?

- Yes.
- Okay.

The stories that come out
of our criminal justice center

about how we are
prosecuting cases is shameful.

It's hard to look a victim
in the eye and say,

"Sorry I didn't try my best."

But I do feel like that's...
That's acceptable now.

We can't hire people
who don't believe in jails,

who don't believe
in convicting a person.

Like, that's not
who should be a prosecutor.

It's a social experiment
at this point,

and shame for the citizens
of Philadelphia

if it doesn't work out.

[rock music]

♪

♪ There I was
completely wasted ♪

♪ Out of work and down

♪ All inside
it's so frustrating ♪

♪ As I drift
from town to town ♪

♪ Feel as though nobody cares
if I live or die ♪

♪ So I might as well begin
to put some action in my life ♪

♪ Breaking the law,
breaking the law ♪

♪ Breaking the law,
breaking the law ♪

♪

♪

[cheers and applause]

announcer: Next time,
on "Philly D.A."...

Krasner: We are here to talk
about mass supervision,

the evil twin
of mass incarceration.

- A judge has a ridiculous
amount of power.

- The judges are this wall
of resistance.

- I don't wanna put you in jail.

You can only put you in jail.

- I'm on probation 'til 2027.

Arrest warrant warning.

I don't know
if I'm going back to work,

or if I'm gonna be going back
to jail.

announcer:
"Philly D.A.," on PBS.

[upbeat music]

- If you don't have someone
there telling the story,

you're gonna lose the narrative.

- Well, you know,
there's two sides to this.

♪

I'm gonna stand up
so that you can actually

see the merchandise,
as they say.

♪

- Things are unfolding
right now.

♪

Krasner:
The challenge is for me

saying the true thing that
nobody else will say.

Yeah.

♪