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1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,000
SIRENS BLARE
2
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,760
WOMAN: I'd like to write something
that is real, you know,
3
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,680
that is really Lady,
and people who don't see her
4
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,840
in any sentimental way,
you know, really as she is.
5
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,600
MAN: I'd like to hear what Bobby
Tucker said. What did he say?
6
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,700
WOMAN: I can't say. You can
give me an idea. I can't.
7
00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:50,000
I never talk
and nobody ever hears the tapes.
8
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,500
MAN: Are you interviewing me
or am I interviewing you?
9
00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:55,360
When I tell you something
you print it!
10
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,640
Billie's dead.
You're talking to me now.
11
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,440
MAN: Well, my friend today is a gal
who has been singing jazz
12
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,360
for a good many years now,
long enough to win for herself
13
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,040
the title of the world's greatest
jazz vocalist, Miss Billie Holiday.
14
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,440
APPLAUSE
15
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,560
# Hey, there, baby,
make up your mind
16
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,400
# Cos I've been waiting
such a long, long time
17
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,280
# Now, baby, or never
18
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,920
# I've been so sad and blue
19
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,520
# Now, baby, or never
20
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,520
# I've been so lonesome, too
21
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,640
# Now, baby, or never
22
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,960
# If I mean anything to you
23
00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:50,360
# Now, baby, or never
24
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,960
# Cos I've wasted so much time
25
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,080
# Now, baby, or never
26
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,520
# And it ain't no fault of mine
27
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,960
# It's got to be yes or no
28
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,960
# It's either you stay or go
29
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,080
# You can't leave me on the shelf
30
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,920
# You gotta commit yourself
31
00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:18,000
# It's either you will, baby,
or won't fall in love with me... #
32
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,240
Interview with
Sylvia Syms January 20th, 1973.
33
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,560
To the people in our industry,
she was the great lady of all time.
34
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,560
She was the queen bee.
35
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,080
# I've been so sad and blue... #
36
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:34,760
Without even trying,
37
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,480
she was the most sensual
of all of the lady singers.
38
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,160
# I've been so lonesome, too... #
39
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,040
I saw the whole world in that face.
40
00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,240
All of the beauty
and all of the misery.
41
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,240
Billie Holiday sang only truth.
She knew nothing else.
42
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,760
# Now, baby, or never
43
00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,400
# I've been so sad and blue
44
00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,680
# Now, baby, or never... #
45
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,720
Met her in Philadelphia once.
46
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,560
It was a funny situation
because I was very unknown.
47
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,360
I was just a fan and she just
kind of lifted up her skirt
48
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,840
and went right into her stocking and
took out a bill and said,
49
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,280
"Get me some gin, son."
50
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,880
THEY LAUGH
51
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,080
# I'm gonna call you once more
on the telephone
52
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,200
# I'll give it till 12
then I'll be gone... #
53
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,640
In what way do you think of her
as being innovative?
54
00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:30,200
Well, the fact that she just told
her own story just by being herself.
55
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,760
# Now, baby, or never... #
56
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,320
It must be a pretty interesting
story that you're writing.
57
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:36,720
She had a wild life.
58
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,560
# You gotta commit yourself
59
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,920
# It's either you will, baby,
60
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,920
# Or won't fall in love with me. #
61
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,000
I want to know why
all girl singers crack up.
62
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,880
They all crack up.
63
00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,560
When they hit the top,
something tragic happens.
64
00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,760
I want to know what causes that.
65
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,960
..rather, it is
a real-world journey,
66
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,240
an attempt to uncover
the true Billie Holiday...
67
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,160
..beyond the romantic myth of
tortured artist and helpless junkie.
68
00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:43,720
A myth Billie herself helped
create...
69
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,640
..forced, as she was, to play
the white man's game in a time
70
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,880
where a woman's voice
was second place
71
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,360
and an African-American's
barely heard at all.
72
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,880
To unravel these myths, I set out
to discover anyone I could find
73
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,240
who had a personal association
with Billie Holiday.
74
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:21,440
I taped their voices and I started
to uncover a person - and artist -
75
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,640
..apprehended orally -
on the road, as it were.
76
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,200
APPLAUSE, PIANO PLAYS
77
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:39,800
# Them that's got shall have
78
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,600
# Them that's not shall lose
79
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:50,680
# So the Bible said
and it still is news
80
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:57,160
# Mama may have, Papa may have
81
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:03,440
# But God bless the child
that's got his own
82
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,120
# That's got his own... #
83
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,800
The things that I sing have to
have something to do with me
84
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,240
and my life and my friends' lives.
85
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,080
They have a meaning.
86
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:22,760
# Empty pockets don't
ever make the grade... #
87
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,840
God Bless The Child -
I wrote that for my mother.
88
00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:29,720
How it came about,
I asked Mother for some money.
89
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,080
And she flatly refused me.
90
00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,600
Now, I said, "That's all right. God
bless the child that's got his own."
91
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,600
I walked out...
92
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,720
..and it sort of stuck in my mind.
93
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,240
I said, "You know,
that's a good title for a song."
94
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:50,880
# Money, you've got
lots of friends... #
95
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:58,120
All I had was my mom.
I never had brothers or sisters.
96
00:06:58,120 --> 00:06:59,320
I did have a cousin.
97
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,240
We used to stay together
as small kids.
98
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,840
How old were you?
Eight or nine years old.
99
00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:10,080
Her and her mother were very close.
100
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,320
They were very close.
101
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:19,240
The area she came up in as a kid,
everybody knew each other, you know.
102
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,760
It was just a nice community to
live in, even though we were poor.
103
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,600
It was a different type of poor
to what they call today, you know?
104
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,200
We made it and we were happy
with what we had.
105
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,320
# Crowdin' round no more... #
106
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,520
# Rich relations give... #
107
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,800
In the bloom of her youth,
she was pretty...
108
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LAUGHTER
109
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,920
# You can help yourself,
but don't take... #
110
00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,160
People played on her. Did they
play on her when she was a kid?
111
00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,400
Of course. Who? The men folks.
112
00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,080
# Papa may have
113
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:05,960
# But God bless the child
that's got his own... #
114
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,360
You hung out with Billie?
That's right.
115
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:11,840
You called her Eleanora.
116
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,200
That's her name - Eleanora Fagan.
That's the name that we knew her by.
117
00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,120
You never knew the father?
No, I never knew her father, no.
118
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,680
Did she curse a lot
when she was a kid?
119
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,960
Yep. What did she say?
What were her favourite words?
120
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:28,640
Motherfucker!
THEY LAUGH
121
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,640
Every other word was motherfucker.
What else? Cocksuckers.
122
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,000
That was her word -
motherfucker, cocksucker.
123
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,360
She would say,
"You suck my ass, motherfucker!"
124
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,480
LAUGHTER
125
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,760
A lot of people didn't like
being called a motherfucker.
126
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,800
They would beat you up, lot of
men... Right there, on the street?
127
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,680
Yeah.
128
00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:53,560
You think she liked it?
She must've liked it.
129
00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:56,120
But the fellas that liked her,
she didn't dig them.
130
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,640
Well, let me ask you something,
John. Go ahead. Did Billie...
131
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,240
Did she turn tricks?
132
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:06,880
Sure, of course.
133
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,120
During them times,
you had to survive,
134
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,120
and she had to survive.
135
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,200
Was she younger than most girls?
136
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,640
No. Girls start young,
some of them, you know?
137
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,280
She wasn't like a slut, you know?
138
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,800
No, no, no. She just lived fast.
139
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,480
# Saddest tale on land or sea
140
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,840
# Was when my man
walked out on me... #
141
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:41,800
Why did she love the fast life?
142
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,440
She liked to be with the boys.
143
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,760
What were you doing then?
144
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,840
I was pimping. Pimping?
HE LAUGHS
145
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,520
Uh-huh? Yeah.
146
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,800
Billie liked you cats, right?
Yeah, yeah.
147
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,360
Well, we all had a lot of money.
148
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,720
How rough did you ever have
to get with them -
149
00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,480
I mean, to keep them in line?
150
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,920
Knock 'em down and kick 'em
in the ass! Yeah?
151
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,960
HE LAUGHS
152
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,880
How did they feel about that?
They loved it!
153
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,440
They'd be so proud of a black eye.
HE LAUGHS
154
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,720
"Look what my man done to me!"
155
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,800
Why? That's what they liked, baby!
Why?
156
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,160
You had to treat them rough.
That's the way they liked it.
157
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,840
# My man's gone
158
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,920
# I feel alone
159
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:29,280
# I've got those "Lost my man" blues
160
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,200
# He didn't treat me fair
161
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,000
# It's more than I can bear... #
162
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,280
Did you ever hear her sing...
Yeah, yeah. ..when she was a kid?
163
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,480
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she used to sing
every night.
164
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:48,040
# I've got those "Lost my man,
can't him back again" blues. #
165
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,320
I always knew I could sing
cos I always did sing,
166
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,360
but I never knew
I could make any money out of it...
167
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,160
..until I was working out of
an old joint called Hot-Cha.
168
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,320
MALE INTERVIEWER: Well, now,
wait a minute.
169
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,320
It's quite a jump from Baltimore
to New York.
170
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,360
Well, it was a jump.
171
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,200
You were 15 years old then,
weren't you?
172
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,400
No, I was 14. I beg your pardon.
173
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:23,600
My first encounter with
Billie Holiday was as a listener...
174
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,640
..not as a biographer or critic.
175
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:34,240
Aged 14, I happened to spot an
album, The Essential Billie Holiday,
176
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,600
and curiously listened
to the voice -
177
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,560
a strange voice
that was more real and true
178
00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:43,360
than anything I'd ever heard before.
179
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,120
It told of experiences
so deeply felt,
180
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:53,040
wailed huskily from some
nether world, that I had no choice.
181
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,120
I had to listen to where
that voice was coming from.
182
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,560
Linda was my big sister.
183
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:17,280
And she was my protector
and she was my best friend.
184
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,000
We grew up in the Bronx
borough of New York.
185
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,800
My father was a labour
union organiser.
186
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,320
Our family was Jewish
but not religious.
187
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,480
Linda was a public
high school teacher,
188
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,000
but she had been doing interviews
on women and women's rights
189
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,480
as a journalist for Paris Review,
190
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,160
for the New York Times
Sunday magazine section.
191
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,600
That's when she decided to start
writing a biography
192
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,160
on Billie Holiday.
193
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,760
Even though they came from
totally different backgrounds,
194
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,520
I think she identified with Billie.
195
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,960
I think she felt the pain
of someone's struggles.
196
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:10,440
She did not like seeing her
as a victim,
197
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,720
which I think is the way
she had been portrayed.
198
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,200
UPBEAT JAZZ MUSIC
199
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,880
I worked with Billie at the Hot-Cha.
200
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,440
It was just like a place you'd go
and have jam sessions.
201
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,960
All the bands would come in.
202
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,080
Everybody would get up
and do a number.
203
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,720
That was during prohibition
in the early '30s.
204
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,800
People was coming from
all over the world to see Harlem,
205
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,560
because Harlem was Harlem then.
206
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,360
White people were coming up
in parties,
207
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,040
big limousines and things like that.
208
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,240
That's where you got
all your big money from.
209
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,480
They'd go to the Cotton Club first,
210
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,040
and then they wanted to see
a little spice after dark...
211
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,600
..so they'd come to
the after-hour places.
212
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,880
What were these people after?
213
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,680
They were after a good time,
214
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:21,760
to hear some risque numbers
and enjoy theirselves. That's all.
215
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:23,680
How did you used to pick up chicks?
216
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,200
I mean, there's been
a lot written...
217
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,520
Well, I used to pick them up
between my legs.
218
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,440
She did it too? Yeah, that's right.
219
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,120
Was she smoking pot?
220
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,440
At that particular time, the only
vice she had was smoking reefers.
221
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,160
Nothing else stronger than that.
222
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,920
Hello, Pigmeat! How are you?
Why, hello, neighbour!
223
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,760
It is good to see you! Yeah,
where in the world has you been?
224
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,360
Someone told me about this girl
who could sing so beautifully.
225
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,840
And I went by there to see her
and hear her,
226
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,680
and that's when I discovered her.
227
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,440
A week or two after, she started
coming to the Apollo Theater,
228
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,040
and that's where she made her stage
appearance - first time in her life.
229
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,320
And why did you think
she was so nervous?
230
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,960
Well, she was stage-frightened.
Never been on a stage before.
231
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,760
And a lot of people, they sing in
them little small places with
232
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,880
eight, ten, 15, 25 people.
233
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,480
And then when you put them
in front a big audience -
234
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,160
1,000-2,000 people -
they just freeze up.
235
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,320
Everybody knew she smoked reefers.
236
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,680
In those days,
reefers wasn't against the law.
237
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,840
The Apollo was just a haze of smoke.
238
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,240
And I'll never forget -
239
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,920
when Billie came out to sing,
they put a green spotlight on her.
240
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,240
She stood on a green spot.
241
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,600
And you could see that smoke
all over the house.
242
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,600
LINDA LAUGHS
Must have smelled...
243
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,840
Oh, if you didn't smoke,
you had a contact high.
244
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,920
And she stood on that green spot
245
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,680
and she sang, and sang, and sang,
and sang. She was terrific.
246
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,240
MALE INTERVIEWER: Tell us something,
Billie, about the background
247
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,920
that brought about
your interest in jazz.
248
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,520
Well, when I was a little girl,
there was a lady on the corner
249
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,400
that had a record machine,
and I could hear Bessie Smith...
250
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,760
..and Louis Armstrong.
251
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,280
And I always wanted to sing like
Louis Armstrong played.
252
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,560
I always wanted to sing
like an instrument.
253
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,400
That was it?
254
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,560
And John Hammond - you've probably
heard of him... Oh, yes.
255
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,160
..used to come up to hear me
in Harlem.
256
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,160
And that's how
I sort of got started.
257
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,960
Well, I was the first white guy
who ever heard Billie.
258
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,960
I was the first one
who introduced her around.
259
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:43,520
About the eighth stoop up here is
where I first heard Billie Holiday.
260
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,000
It says "Laundry" there, see?
261
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,600
And that's the place where
Billie Holiday made her debut,
262
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,680
as far as I know, in New York,
in about February of 1933.
263
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,360
What did you hear that said to you,
264
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,800
"I have to let the rest
of the world know about this?"
265
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,400
I heard a singer who was
an improvising horn player...
266
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,200
Horn player? Yeah, well,
that's how she sung.
267
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,520
Any specific horn player?
Well, I think she liked Louis.
268
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,560
Louis Armstrong? Louis Armstrong,
I'm sorry. That's quite all right.
269
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:19,280
And I knew, you know, that these
two would...make music together
270
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,240
that was unprecedented.
271
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,600
# When the moon's kinda dreamy
272
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,720
# Starry eyed and dreamy
273
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,720
# And nights are luscious and long
274
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:40,000
# If you're kinda lonely
275
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,240
# And all by your only
276
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,840
# Then nothin' but the blues
are brewin'
277
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,400
# The blues are brewin'
278
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,440
# When the wind
through the willow... #
279
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,320
I really didn't like girl singers
very much, you know,
280
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,920
cos they were, most of them, very
corny - except for blues singers.
281
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,200
Blues singers, I loved.
282
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,120
# If love goes a-thirstin'
283
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:14,360
# Till you feel like burstin'
284
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:18,720
# Then nothing
but the blues are brewin'
285
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,960
# The blues are brewin'... #
286
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,800
I persuaded
the American Record Company
287
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,520
that they should record the hits of
the day with a wonderful girl singer
288
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,000
and hit the jukebox trade.
289
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,840
I said, "It costs so little."
290
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,880
We would do these records, you see,
for less than $300 a session.
291
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,120
# Suppose you want somebody
292
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:47,400
# But you ain't got nobody
293
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:52,520
# You only got a gleam
in your eye... #
294
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,840
At 33, I got her into a studio
with Benny Goodman.
295
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,840
It was the first time that Benny
had ever recorded with anybody
296
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,880
other than white musicians
because he was afraid he'd lose
297
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,560
all his jobs if he was known
to record with Black people.
298
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,760
Right. Could you tell me
about how that came about?
299
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,600
We have to turn off
the tape machine.
300
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,720
He slept with Billie. You see,
I was one of the people who didn't.
301
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,960
If you went to Harlem
just for music and no sex,
302
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,400
it was the strangest thing
in the world.
303
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,800
And I went just for music.
304
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,280
The first time I met Billie was in
a place behind the Apollo Theater.
305
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,240
And she asked me to take her home,
306
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,760
because some of her friends
that were there...
307
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,840
She says, "I don't want them
to take me home."
308
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,920
The apartment was in Harlem.
That was considered a ghetto.
309
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:03,000
We got there and she asked me
to stay with us.
310
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,320
I ended up staying about six months.
311
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,200
Her mother used to tell me about her
when she was a little girl.
312
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:13,720
What would she tell you?
313
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,760
That she was still in love
with Billie's father.
314
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,080
And a lot of times when she used to
talk about it, she'd cry.
315
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,560
Somebody told me
that Billie used to go with girls.
316
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,840
Now, is there any truth in that?
Oh, of course.
317
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,720
Her nickname, among the men,
they called her Mr Billie Holiday -
318
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,440
because she was seldom seen
with fellas.
319
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,640
And I will always believe that
her mother was the cause of it,
320
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,160
cos she never wanted Billie
to get close with any fellas.
321
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,520
She would tell her,
"They're no good.
322
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,160
"Now, I heard this about him
and I heard that about him."
323
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,760
Her mother pushed that in her mind
to be careful -
324
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,640
cos they'll break your heart.
325
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,680
Just like Billie's father.
326
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,960
What was Clarence like?
327
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,280
Oh, just a happy-go-lucky guy.
Yeah? Yeah. Full of fun.
328
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,200
What was his idea of fun?
329
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,840
Oh, loved his booze.
330
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,160
Clarence would drink anything
you poured in a glass.
331
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,480
LAUGHS: Is that so?
Could he hold it? Oh, yeah.
332
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,560
Did you ever see him drunk?
Quite often.
333
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,680
Would he change at all
when he was drunk?
334
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,600
No, he would get more happy.
335
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,320
He wasn't violent at all.
336
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,360
Did you ever see Billie
with Clarence?
337
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,640
Come to think about it, no.
338
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,520
First time I ever saw her...
339
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,400
..of course, Billie was young,
you know?
340
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,240
Carefree, just like a big kid.
341
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,400
Sonny Wright was playing piano.
342
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,120
She was going with Sonny.
343
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,160
What was he like?
344
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,240
Sonny was a nice, quiet,
very good musician.
345
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,760
They were engaged?
346
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,600
Yes. Her mother and I hoped that
she would marry him.
347
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,400
But Monroe broke that off -
Jimmy Monroe.
348
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:18,000
Did Billie's mother ever say that he
was a pimp? Yes. She hated Monroe.
349
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,160
He had stolen her.
350
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,400
And then the next thing I heard,
he had her using coke.
351
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,840
Lady and Jimmy used to fight
a lot, you know.
352
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,440
But I didn't see too much
of Lady after...Monroe.
353
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,800
Whether the men who Billie went with
treated her well or not,
354
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,360
she always chose them for a reason.
355
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,840
They played for her.
They protected her.
356
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,480
And, in the man's world
of the nightclub,
357
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,800
they allowed her to do the one thing
that mattered, which was to sing.
358
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,560
Music didn't bring Billie to Harlem,
359
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,280
but it was her voice
that would allow her to escape.
360
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,160
Attention, everybody!
361
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,600
# Now, here's a boogie-woogie
solid beat
362
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,320
# Come on, you dancers, on your feet
363
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,640
# The winners get a prize,
as you all know
364
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,360
# And we pick 'em by the speed
and the class they show. #
365
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:28,360
Let's go!
366
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,840
MALE INTERVIEWER: Billie, I'm just
wondering if you might tell us
367
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,480
how people began to call you
Lady Day.
368
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,360
Well, now, that came about
with Count Basie's band.
369
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,000
Lester Young,
he was a saxophone player.
370
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,440
Lester named me Lady Day
and he named my mother Duchess -
371
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,520
and there was Count Basie -
so we were the royal family.
372
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,600
I returned the compliment
and called him the President.
373
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,400
SHE LAUGHS
374
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,720
And I had some swell cats
in there with me.
375
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,360
Beautiful. She was a gorgeous woman.
376
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,240
Was she one of the boys?
377
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,080
She was like a man,
only she was feminine.
378
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,280
When you travel along like that
with a woman,
379
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,960
she becomes just like another man.
380
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,480
Who did she sit with on the bus?
381
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,720
Her and Lester Young would
sit together most of the time.
382
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,280
They'd light up, back of the bus.
383
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,480
A lot of people thought
her and Lester were lovers.
384
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,600
He wasn't the type
that she went for.
385
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,280
And what kind of places
were you playing?
386
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,520
Oh, they were the worst. Really?
They were the lowest.
387
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,000
We used to have conversations like,
"What are we doing down south?
388
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,240
"What are we trying to prove?"
389
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,680
The management made Billie
blacken her face?
390
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,120
Yeah, we did. We made her
darken down. So, she was light.
391
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:58,600
How did she take that?
392
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,200
Actually, she didn't dig it.
393
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,440
When I came out on the stage
and saw it, I laughed.
394
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,480
It was funny to me.
395
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,400
And then she turned around
and called me a motherfucker.
396
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,120
I don't even know what transpired
for that to happen.
397
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,760
What would be a good question
for you to ask me... You?
398
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:20,880
..about Billie?
399
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,880
She said that you used to alternate
riff-raff joints
400
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,520
and then you'd play
some big white hotel.
401
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,120
You'd go from one extreme
to the other. Is that true?
402
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:35,040
Well, I don't call no place
a riff-raff that pays me.
403
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,640
She said you weren't your own boss,
that you had too many managers.
404
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,040
BASIE LAUGHS
405
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,240
It's true? I don't know, maybe.
406
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,080
I ran that through John Hammond.
407
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,560
Was it true that she had to make
her face darker...
408
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,840
..because she was too light
to sing with a Black band?
409
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,480
Maybe it happened. See, a lot of
these things might've happened
410
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,680
that I didn't know
anything about, see?
411
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,960
I always wanted to straighten
that out.
412
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,400
I don't know. How do I know?
413
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,040
Are you interviewing me about
my band or Billie Holiday?
414
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,000
Both? I can't write about
Billie Holiday with your band
415
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,120
if I'm not going to talk about
your band.
416
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,200
THEY LAUGH
417
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,560
You... Am I?
418
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Can I?
419
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,040
My name is Jonathan David
Samuel Jones -
420
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,280
professional name Jo, J-O -
421
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,800
and everybody that professes to know
her, they knew nothing about her.
422
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,760
All that they knew -
what was in it for them.
423
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,200
What happened with her and
Count Basie? I mean, why did that...
424
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,160
Count Basie? Yeah.
Can't you leave Count Basie alone?
425
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,600
There's no problem.
There was no problem.
426
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,240
There was no problem.
Why did she leave the band?
427
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,320
She didn't leave the band.
She was fired. Who fired her?
428
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,160
John Hammond.
429
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,160
John Hammond fired her?
430
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,600
Why?
431
00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,800
That's a big question.
432
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,200
If you can answer that,
they wouldn't have the UN.
433
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,520
About Basie - why did Billie
leave the band?
434
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,480
Well, you see, here's the thing.
435
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,920
There was a real problem
with Billie and Basie.
436
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,920
She wasn't making enough money.
437
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,000
Simple as that. And this is really
one of the principal reasons
438
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,920
why she left the band.
439
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,960
How much was she getting paid, then?
440
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,840
I think 100 and a quarter a week,
something like that, at the most.
441
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,080
She quit?
442
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,360
Oh, she did.
443
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,520
John Hammond wanted her
to sing the blues.
444
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,160
So, since she wouldn't sing
the blues, he fired her.
445
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,160
How can I verify it?
446
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,880
His number's L0803 4173.
447
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,920
Call him up and I'll tell him and
I'll give him another heart attack.
448
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,600
Call him!
449
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,400
I'm... Call him! I'm not going to
call him now... Call him!
450
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,480
Listen, I'm going to call him...
I'm going to ask... No, call him!
451
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,640
You know I'm not going to
get through to him.
452
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,560
I guess you've heard by now that
Jo Jones said that you fired her...
453
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,840
Oh, absolute lie.
454
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,040
Absolute lie! ..because she wouldn't
sing the blues.
455
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,120
How can Jo say a thing like that?
456
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:13,000
Did you talk to Jo? Yeah.
457
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,000
Jo said I...?
Oh, Jo's out of his mind!
458
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,280
He's a garbage-mouthed liar.
Why didn't...?
459
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,560
He fired her because he wanted her
to sing the blues,
460
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,760
he wanted her to be
a coloured mammy!
461
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,960
Didn't I tell you not to let me
catch you at that piano again?
462
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,400
I'm sorry, ma'am.
463
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,200
If I'd have heard you coming,
I wouldn't have let you catch me.
464
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,640
Let me fix you a good hot tub...
465
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,520
Now I'm telling you this in front.
466
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,320
He wanted her to just be
"Yessa, boss! Yessa, boss!"
467
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,560
And everybody talk about,
"He's the great white father."
468
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,240
Don't give me that shit!
469
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,240
But nobody got guts enough
to tell the people that,
470
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,640
because they're afraid of him.
471
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,280
The problem with Jo is, you know,
472
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,400
that Jo is not always the most
reliable... I just saw Jo last week.
473
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,840
I'll have to ask him how he could
possibly have given you... Sure.
474
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:57,840
Do indeed.
475
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,480
It happened.
That was a long time ago.
476
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,120
How in the hell can I tell you
what happened... How can I prove it?
477
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,360
You don't have to prove it.
It happened!
478
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,360
I believe you...
No, it happened! OK!
479
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,680
But when I put something in print...
I don't give a damn.
480
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,080
Put it in print and quote me.
It happened!
481
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,600
So why... So don't you ask...
If you interviewing me
482
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,560
and when I tell you something,
you print it!
483
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,840
Are you interviewing me
or am I interviewing you?
484
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,680
Where the hell were you
30 years ago? I was in a crib.
485
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,360
MYRA: Linda was very conscious
of being a white writer
486
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,440
and writing about Billie.
487
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,000
JO JONES: You don't know what we
was going through...
488
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,800
What were you going through?
We was going through hell!
489
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,560
Miss Billie Holiday didn't have
the privilege of using a toilet
490
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,520
in a filling station.
491
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,160
The boys at least could
go out in the woods.
492
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,800
You don't know anything about it
493
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,160
because you've never had to
subjugate yourself to it.
494
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,720
Never.
495
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,720
Most neighbourhoods where we were
were segregated by race...
496
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,600
..but we were very much aware of
what was happening in the world
497
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,240
racially.
498
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,360
The violations of people's
civil rights...
499
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,800
..the horrors of dogs attacking
Black people in the South.
500
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,840
The African-American struggle
resonated with Linda.
501
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,400
And it was always an outrage
to Linda
502
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,200
that people walked in the front door
who were coming to see her
503
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,240
but Billie Holiday had to walk
through the kitchen to perform.
504
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,800
MALE INTERVIEWER: This is no secret,
of course,
505
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,240
that wherever musicians gather
and talk about singers,
506
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,120
they generally elect you
as their favourite.
507
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,520
Now, who is your favourite?
508
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,160
Well, I like Billy Eckstine's
singing very much.
509
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,600
He has sweet sounds.
510
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:15,120
# Alone from night to night,
you'll find me... #
511
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,600
Jo Jones told me that Hammond
fired Billie from the Basie Band
512
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,640
cos she wouldn't sing the blues.
513
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,360
Is that the truth?
It's probably, sure... It could be?
514
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,640
She never told you...?
No, she never told me,
515
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,120
but I want to be known as a singer
who can sing the ballad,
516
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,200
who can sing up-tempo things.
517
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,840
Don't tell her to become
a blues singer -
518
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,600
that that's all I can do is blues.
And that's... That's what they did!
519
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,160
Did you two ever talk about this?
We would've had to.
520
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,800
See, now, you've got
the misconception
521
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,800
that Black is the blues?
522
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:46,840
Sure.
523
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,480
It seems as if the people who were
running the recordings were white -
524
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,280
and I mean the powers, the agents -
525
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,040
but let's say seven-eighths
of the musicians were Black.
526
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,680
You see what people do
to suppress you,
527
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,800
the frustration of what connected
with Black performers...
528
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,960
..the difference of being
"a Black star"
529
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,400
in relationship to being "a star".
530
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,480
Billie Holiday -
she's a Black singer.
531
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,760
Billy Eckstine -
"Oh, you mean the Black singer."
532
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,160
And not Peggy Lee,
she's a "Slav singer",
533
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,600
or Barbra Streisand,
she's a "Jewish singer".
534
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,640
Not that. You don't get that.
535
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,480
Get a load of the critics
for God's sake,
536
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,160
the people who judge our music
as being good or bad.
537
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,040
There isn't a Black critic.
538
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,480
There never was a Black critic
in swing music. Why? Why?
539
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,200
Because of the power structure
is such that you never got a chance.
540
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:47,480
You had all white critics to decide
whether or not you were good or bad.
541
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,520
It's a pleasure, always,
to welcome Mr Billy Eckstine.
542
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,520
APPLAUSE
543
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:54,800
Black people get bugged...
544
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,720
I think this is one of
the most ironic things,
545
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,520
that a man named Paul Whiteman
was known as the King of Jazz.
546
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,800
Paul Whiteman was a white man.
And jazz is...
547
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,640
Benny Goodman was the King of Swing.
548
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,680
LAUGHTER
549
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,480
She used to laugh at the fact that
Benny Goodman was King of Swing.
550
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,440
Paul Whiteman, King of Jazz?
551
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,880
You know, these things,
they're absolutely comedic!
552
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,040
Look at Tom Jones.
553
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,720
Tom Jones openly says that he got
his start from Otis Redding,
554
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,040
Jackie Wilson, from Chuck Berry,
555
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,160
and he started learning how to sing
ballads by listening to my records.
556
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,640
Now, all four of us
that they named - where's ours?
557
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,360
Where's our compensation?
558
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:42,640
Where's your payday?
559
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,120
MALE INTERVIEWER: The most
remarkable thing
560
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,680
about jazz performers, you're way
ahead of so many of the rest of us
561
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,120
when it comes to desegregation.
562
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,160
Why is it that the colour thing
has not ever really been
563
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,800
that important with musicians?
564
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,440
Well, I guess we have more nerve
than other people
565
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,880
and we get a chance to meet
bigger people.
566
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,240
Who was it that brought about
the job you did with
567
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:20,120
Artie Shaw in the old days?
Remember?
568
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,640
Well, Artie Shaw.
569
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,800
He asked me if I wanted a job.
570
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,440
So, I says, "Yeah, I want a job."
571
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,160
But there was still a policy of
no coloured singers being with
572
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,200
a white organisation.
Would you tell that story to us now?
573
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,440
Well, I'd rather not.
574
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,720
I first met Billie
back in around 1930.
575
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,440
Billie was just a young kid then,
576
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,240
and I was almost as hungry
in those days as she was.
577
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:51,080
I remember saying to her one day,
"Billie, if I ever make the grade
578
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,160
"and get a band of my own,
you're going to sing with it."
579
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,240
And, sure enough,
that's what happened.
580
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,120
Do you remember when Billie
first came to sing?
581
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,680
To the best of my knowledge that
would have been
582
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,000
in either '36 or '37.
583
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,560
We were a travelling group
of minstrels.
584
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,000
We got on a bus and travelled
300 miles...
585
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,680
..and the way we carried it out
was part of the life.
586
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,000
Did Billie ever have any trouble as
a Black singer with a white band?
587
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,240
Yes. The normal kind of problems
that would exist
588
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:29,520
with any Black person in those days.
589
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,640
She was remarkable in that she was
a trailblazer
590
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,200
without really...
Being conscious of making it...
591
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,000
Wasn't making it a thing
or anything.
592
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,360
Today it's hard to even
describe the climate,
593
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,840
you know, like waitresses refusing
to serve her.
594
00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:51,800
After we would eat, she always
ordered an extra hamburger
595
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,640
and she put that in her purse,
because she never knew
596
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,920
when she would not be able
to be served.
597
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,400
The incidents concerning Billie
were mostly concerning
598
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,080
finding a place to stay,
wherever we went.
599
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,640
The usual racial problem.
600
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,360
Especially if you're a Black woman
travelling with a white band.
601
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,200
We'd get in in the early morning
hours, you see,
602
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,840
and many times she either slept in
the car or the bus or wherever.
603
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,320
And where would you go?
604
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,520
To a hotel. How did she take it?
605
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,760
Billie was kind of sensitive.
606
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,200
Well, not kind of, she was
extremely sensitive.
607
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,880
Do you remember an incident by any
chance when you first hit Kentucky
608
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,520
and the sheriff came up to
the bandstand and said,
609
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,600
"What's that Black bitch
going to sing?"
610
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,280
There was a brawl or something?
611
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,240
Oh, there was a hell of a fight,
I remember.
612
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:49,120
I think somebody was calling her
nigger or something, I don't know.
613
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,120
I hit somebody over the head...
614
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,760
When we got to the Lincoln hotel
in New York,
615
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,880
which began our so-called big break,
616
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,000
they didn't allow a coloured,
Black girl to sing.
617
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,960
It was just one of those things,
a sacrifice there,
618
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,520
it had to be Billie.
619
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,200
She just kind of left,
she just quit.
620
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,760
Did anybody blame Artie Shaw
for staying
621
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,960
when Billie really
couldn't stay there?
622
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,680
Well, he didn't fire her.
She left on her own.
623
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:26,840
She had a lot of pride.
624
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,960
And how did she take it?
Philosophically, I guess,
625
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,360
in her vulgar language method.
626
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,400
HE LAUGHS
627
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,880
If she had other words at her
disposal, she would have used them.
628
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,960
The only words she could speak
were those in the song.
629
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,000
This beautiful soul she had that she
could only do
630
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,160
by expressing herself singing.
631
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,960
And now a little tune written
especially for me, Strange Fruit.
632
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,840
# Southern trees
633
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:25,920
# Bear a strange fruit
634
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,320
# Blood on the leaves
635
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,280
# And blood at the root
636
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,360
# Black bodies swingin'
637
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,280
# In the Southern breeze
638
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,320
# Strange fruit hangin'
639
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,040
# From the poplar trees... #
640
00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:01,040
About '39, she actually was
a Columbia artist
641
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,560
and they gave me permission to
record Strange Fruit,
642
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,480
which they didn't want to record.
643
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,040
Why not?
644
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,680
Because of the social content of it,
I guess,
645
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,360
and how unusual it was to do
a protest song.
646
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:24,280
That was the thing that made all
the publicity and noise.
647
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,320
# Pastoral scene
648
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,160
# Of the gallant South
649
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,120
# The bulgin' eyes
650
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,320
# And the twisted mouth... #
651
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,240
It was actually a shocking
piece of material.
652
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:48,680
She would come close to breaking up
when she was singing Strange Fruit.
653
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,080
You hear the crack in the voice.
654
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,360
Yeah, also in the eyes, and almost
a reflection of what she had
655
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,080
to do in her lifetime
in order to make it.
656
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,000
The fact that negroes
did not have equal chances,
657
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,320
this is something
that she felt very deeply
658
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,520
and about the only way she could
really crusade
659
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,800
or bring these thoughts to air
would be to sing songs like that.
660
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,000
# Scent of magnolia
661
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:21,760
# Sweet and fresh
662
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,280
# Then the sudden smell
663
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,160
# Of burnin' flesh
664
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,400
# Here is a fruit
665
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,000
# For the crows to pluck
666
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,720
# For the rain to gather
667
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:55,680
# For the wind to suck
668
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,600
# For the sun to rot
669
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,680
# For the tree
670
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,720
# To
671
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:15,000
# Drop
672
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,760
# Here is a strange
673
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,560
# And bitter
674
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:31,440
# Crop. #
675
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:42,200
Do you remember the first time
she sang that song at Cafe Society?
676
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,040
Sure, it's unforgettable.
677
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,880
Every time she sang
it was unforgettable.
678
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,280
Soon after the Time Magazine
appeared and the caption read,
679
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,680
"Most unusual song ever to be
heard in the nightclub."
680
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,000
When she sang Strange Fruit,
she never moved.
681
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,080
Billie stood there.
682
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,280
All service stopped
at the bar everywhere.
683
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,960
And do you remember any time
684
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,760
when anybody might have caused
any problems? Oh, yes.
685
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,200
I had people walk out.
686
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,560
These were white people?
White people.
687
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,640
One party after another.
688
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,720
"We come to your nightclub
to be entertained,
689
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:29,520
"we don't call this entertainment."
690
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,120
Strange Fruit. "What is that, man?"
691
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,480
And she was fighting equality
before Martin Luther King.
692
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:45,760
How? Well, in the songs she chose
to sing, exposing discrimination.
693
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,240
Putting it on stage.
694
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:51,360
They used to have riots
when she'd sing that in New York
695
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,720
and that might be why the cops
were against her, too.
696
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:55,400
Not just junk.
697
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,840
The Treasury Department intends
to pursue a relentless warfare
698
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:07,080
against the despicable dope peddling
vultures and public enemies,
699
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,160
and we hope to place
the drug addicts arrested
700
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,160
under institutional care.
701
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,680
But not everyone stood
to applaud her primal howl
702
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,920
against the bloody history
of white America.
703
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,000
And her refusal to stop
singing it would give vindication
704
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,120
to those powerful men already
circling the decadent world of jazz
705
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,520
in search of a high-profile target
to burnish their reputation.
706
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,640
And now that Billie's star shone
so brightly...
707
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,480
I need to get myself ready for this.
708
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,480
I'll have a couple of bits because
if I'm going to talk about her,
709
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,600
I want to feel good.
She was something else.
710
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,120
Really something.
711
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,480
When did you first meet her?
712
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,080
I met her in 1942.
713
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,640
I was just a kid,
I was only like 20 years old.
714
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,200
She used to call me in there to add
chords to this tune.
715
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,720
Where was this,
in her dressing room?
716
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:36,400
Yeah, and she'd stand there with
nothing but a pair of shoes on.
717
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,320
That was it.
718
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,040
No clothes.
719
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,480
# My man don't love me
720
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:50,200
# He treats me oh so mean
721
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,600
# My man, he don't love me
722
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,680
# He treats me awful mean
723
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,800
# He's the lowest man
724
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,080
# That I've ever seen... #
725
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,360
Her boy was Lester Young.
726
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,960
She was always happy when she knew
Pres was playing for her.
727
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,680
The way he played behind her,
728
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,720
she was just like she was
in her mother's arms.
729
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,440
I like Lester's feeling,
you know.
730
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,720
But when he first started,
731
00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:44,320
everyone felt his tone is too thin.
732
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,000
I told him it doesn't matter
733
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,840
because you watch, after a while,
734
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,760
everybody's going to be
clapping you.
735
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,280
# He wears high-draped pants
736
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,760
# Stripes are really yellow... #
737
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,120
They had the funniest way
of loving each other.
738
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,040
It was brother and sister
but it was another thing.
739
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:08,920
Anybody that ever knew him
740
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,440
would tell you he's one
of the strangest people on earth.
741
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,400
He was like a visitor, really,
742
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,280
and she was, too, so you figure the
two of them together is pretty wild.
743
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,600
That was the way it was
all the time.
744
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,760
But everybody loves a wild woman.
745
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:26,800
THEY LAUGH
746
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,280
# But you're so mean to me, baby
747
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,560
# I know you're gonna
drive me away... #
748
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,440
Sang from her crotch.
749
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,880
You bet she had
the greatest crotch in life.
750
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,720
Now that I look back,
I'm sorry I missed it!
751
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:49,320
HE LAUGHS
752
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,440
How do you envision her sex life?
753
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,240
It had an awful lot to do with
the way she was with everything
754
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:02,280
she did, so, you look at Lady Day,
you've got to include her sex life
755
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,960
or you don't look at her.
756
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:10,040
# Sometimes when you think
it's on, baby
757
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,560
# It has turned off and gone. #
758
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,360
Even from the beginning,
she'd choose me,
759
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,600
because I had admired her so long.
760
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,960
She came down one night
between shows and she said,
761
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,760
"Pick me up tonight."
762
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,760
And as I was walking in the door
763
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,320
she was walking out
the door with a chick.
764
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,040
But the next night she collected me.
765
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,880
She would go off with a chick
or something like that,
766
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,960
she planned to make them perform
like a three-ring circus.
767
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,000
After that, she'd probably go out
and get a prostitute.
768
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,240
She was a sex machine.
769
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:02,280
HE LAUGHS
770
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,320
I know a couple of good friends of
yours who are not musicians.
771
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,000
Orson Welles, Tallulah Bankhead.
772
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,160
BILLIE: Miss Bankhead, I love her.
773
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,880
She had a lot of affairs
with girls at that time.
774
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,640
Tallulah was her girl.
775
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,840
Everybody was talking about it.
776
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,240
I was like the relief drummer.
777
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,560
She's like, "I'm going to do four
tunes tonight. Start your heart."
778
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,520
She'd excite you
with just three notes.
779
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,720
The bar used to be packed
with hero worshippers.
780
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,440
She looked like a panther, is
the only way I could describe her,
781
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,240
with the most unbelievable
face in the world.
782
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,520
She really dug being high, that's
the one thing I've got to say,
783
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,280
but I never knew anyone
with such a capacity.
784
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,680
All the doormen along 52nd Street
785
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,680
positively knew.
786
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,320
Like what? Like pot.
787
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:16,960
When we first started going
together,
788
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,640
there was nothing but weed involved.
789
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,080
All of a sudden, she started fixing.
790
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:24,880
Whiskey didn't make her high.
791
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,400
She was using heroin and cocaine
at the same time.
792
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,520
And she had a 10lbs candy box,
full of pills.
793
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,560
She'd grab a fistful of them.
794
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,600
And she'd just eat
and drink Scotch behind that.
795
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,840
And she would consume more
stimulants than any ten men
796
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,640
and still perform.
797
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,200
She was an extremist.
798
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,320
Why?
799
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,960
Why all those extremes? Why?
800
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:02,280
She just wanted to get high.
801
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,440
That's as simple as that.
802
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:05,960
And why shouldn't she?
803
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,720
I'm Jimmy Fletcher,
804
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:17,720
one of the top narcotics agents
in the country.
805
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:21,200
Billie Holiday, she was kept under
observation for years.
806
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,080
She had been raided by police
dozens of times
807
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:27,680
and they'd never found anything.
808
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:34,120
One day, I was called in
for a confidential conversation
809
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,200
with the supervisor and he said,
"I just got a call from Anslinger."
810
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:44,160
He said that Billie Holiday's agent,
Joe Glaser,
811
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,480
wants a coloured agent
to work with him
812
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,560
on getting a case on Billie Holiday.
813
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,480
You mean Joe Glaser wanted
Billie busted?
814
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,120
Yes, for her own good.
815
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,000
He confided in me
he'd like to save her,
816
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,200
and the only way to save her
817
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,200
is to have her knocked out
by the government.
818
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,880
Why couldn't you bust Billie then,
when Glaser wanted her busted?
819
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,000
Well, because she never sold
anything, never handled it.
820
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:18,360
So, what happened?
You were following her movement?
821
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,480
That's right, keeping her under
observation, night and day.
822
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,080
And would you say Billie
was extremely smart
823
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,840
in protecting herself?
824
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:33,120
Well, she was. The information
came that Joe Guy,
825
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,520
during that period when she was
going with him,
826
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,560
he bought an ounce every day.
827
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,640
Wasn't Joe Guy a musician?
Oh, yes, he played the trumpet.
828
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,920
Every day, Joe Guy walked up
8th Avenue, picked up an ounce,
829
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,800
put it under the collar
of Billie Holiday's boxer dog.
830
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,080
He'd walk with the dog from way down
on Morningside Drive
831
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,520
up to Braddock Hotel.
832
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:07,440
He lets that dog go
and the dog goes all around
833
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:13,360
to the elevator operator and he'd
guide the dog to the top floor.
834
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,640
The elevator operator
was in collusion, $2.
835
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,000
He always got it
for looking out for her.
836
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,320
She sailed along
without being caught
837
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,440
until that shoot-out in Philly.
838
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:34,040
Until that shoot-out in Philly in
'47, you mean? Yes. What happened?
839
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:39,120
In Philadelphia, they found 2oz
of heroin in the car
840
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:43,040
but they couldn't get any warrants
to make a clean arrest
841
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,080
before Billie got in the car.
842
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,280
The chauffeur, he got a tip-off,
843
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,360
he got away, then Billie Holiday's
Cadillac was shot up by police.
844
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,240
A lot of bullet holes in it.
845
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,280
She got away and she was headed
for the Grampian Hotel.
846
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,160
Washington had wired the
New York office
847
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:12,440
and told them to put
somebody on Billie Holiday's tail.
848
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,120
And I'm not supposed to make
any attempt at arresting Billie.
849
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,960
I'm supposed to tail her.
850
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,000
And she was in the hotel?
851
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,920
When I arrived, the only way
I knew it was the Cadillac
852
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,520
was when I went around, and saw that
there were bullet holes.
853
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,160
And, then, the next day,
the arrests were made.
854
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:44,560
Let me ask you this.
855
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,760
Given the fact that she was so
famous, would she have been a target
856
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,800
because there would have been a lot
of publicity for an agent?
857
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,080
Well, not just for an agent.
For the Bureau of Narcotics.
858
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,400
So, then, in that sense,
somebody could make a reputation?
859
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:02,560
That's right.
860
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,320
Here at Alderson,
the system was that
861
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,120
when a person came in who was
on drugs at the time, that they were
862
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,200
sent to the hospital and remained
863
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,360
there until they were drug-free.
864
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,480
ALARM BELL RINGS, DOG BARKS
865
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,480
This prison was
segregated as to race.
866
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,600
She really went
into the woodwork here.
867
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,360
She had made up her mind that she
was just going to do her time
868
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,400
and get out as fast as she could.
869
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,680
This was the room she occupied.
870
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,160
She certainly was no trouble ever.
871
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:55,520
She was a generous person,
I'd say, in thought, anyway,
872
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,280
and she never bothered anybody.
873
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,720
It's almost impossible to say
how quiet she was.
874
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,480
To my knowledge,
she never sang a note.
875
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,840
WIND CHIMES PLAY
876
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:23,120
MYRA: It took Linda a long time
to work on the book.
877
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,200
Eight years of her life,
and she had some bad times.
878
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,760
We would get calls
in the middle of the night.
879
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,760
I just don't feel like doing it.
880
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,400
All this should have been done
about this woman before she died,
881
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,400
not after she's dead and everybody's
just going through
882
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,160
all kinds of shit about it now.
883
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,440
Because I've had it up to here
with that shit.
884
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,360
MYRA: As the time went on,
885
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,360
she kept pushing her own set
deadline further and further.
886
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,160
At one point, I remember
we had a discussion and I said,
887
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,240
"You know, maybe it's just time
888
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:01,840
"to finish it and to leave it
imperfect."
889
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,680
But she couldn't.
It was so much part of her.
890
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,560
The reason that Linda struggled
so much was that inside her own
891
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,440
head, she heard the voice
that she wanted Billie to have,
892
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,880
but she couldn't get that
correct voice on paper.
893
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:25,960
# Just one more chance... #
894
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,880
MALE INTERVIEWER: Haven't you got a
fine piano man of your own
895
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,320
that you bring in there? Yes,
he goes everywhere with me.
896
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:37,560
His name is Bobby Tucker.
897
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,680
Bobby's been with me for years
and he is a very great musician.
898
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,960
After she came out of jail,
she was so glad to get back
899
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,600
and she was so amazed that people
hadn't forgotten her.
900
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,160
# Still I'm hoping... #
901
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,480
We did Carnegie Concert Hall.
902
00:56:58,440 --> 00:56:59,760
I remember opening night.
903
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,560
There was a line around the block
and the people were standing out
904
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,000
there and really waiting to see
what a woman prisoner looked like.
905
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,520
MALE INTERVIEWER What happened in
Carnegie Hall? Were you frightened?
906
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:12,960
I was scared to death.
907
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,320
I waited until the last minute
and I said I wasn't going to go on.
908
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:17,760
There was too many people.
909
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,280
And I couldn't control my knees.
910
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,520
Well, you could see my knees
is going and people didn't know
911
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,320
whether I was going to
dance or sing!
912
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:27,880
THEY LAUGH
913
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,040
# Still I'm hoping... #
914
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:39,280
She would walk out,
and, before she opens her mouth,
915
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,600
she had everybody in their place.
916
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,480
# I said that I... #
917
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,320
She didn't really think
that she was a good singer.
918
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,160
She could tell a story.
919
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:59,080
She had no confidence in her voice?
No. None at all?
920
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,080
Actresses, actors,
I look at them like, "Ooh!"
921
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,400
And you don't consider yourself
in the same league? No! Why not?
922
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,040
You've thought as much about it.
You have developed a style,
923
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,440
a technique just as much as
they have done.
924
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,360
You please just as many people,
925
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:18,000
so, why are you not just as much
an artiste as any one of them?
926
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:22,320
Well, maybe I am in my little way,
but, my God, they make me cry,
927
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:23,840
they make me happy.
928
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,880
I don't know if I've ever done
that to people, really.
929
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,200
Oh, I think you do, I think you do.
930
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,000
There was a difference between
what Ella did and Billie.
931
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,200
Ella says, "My man's gone,"
932
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,840
you'd think the guy went
down the street for a loaf of bread.
933
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:44,160
But when Lady says, "My man's gone,"
man, you can see that cat going down
934
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,800
the street, he's got his bags packed
and he ain't never coming back.
935
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,000
She taught me that
if you almost laugh out loud
936
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,040
but never quite make it,
the audience will laugh.
937
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,480
If you almost cry but never quite
make it, the audience will cry.
938
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,680
Would she cry?
939
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,240
She would cry about a lot of things,
940
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,320
but never when she thought anybody
was watching her.
941
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,960
# Cried my heart out... #
942
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,680
Nobody can sing like Lady.
Not ever.
943
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,520
We worked at Club Ebony together.
944
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,600
That's when John Levy
came into the spotlight.
945
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:52,040
But Billie did not care about such
legal considerations anyway.
946
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,400
She did not relate to legal codes.
947
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,960
# It cost me a lot
948
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,800
# But there's one thing
949
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,680
# That I've got
950
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:20,800
# It's my man... #
951
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,040
John Levy. The bastard,
952
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,520
the dirty, rotten, stinking bastard.
953
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,240
There is nothing good you could
say about that man? Not one thing.
954
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,760
Sweetheart, I try and say something
good about, you know...
955
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,760
There's no reason to say
anything good about him?
956
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,080
There is no reason to say
anything good about him.
957
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,720
# All of this I'll soon forget
958
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,800
# With my man... #
959
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,360
John Levy's a pimp.
960
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,200
Parasite. I wouldn't want to brush
up with him if I had overalls on.
961
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,520
# He's no hero... #
962
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,080
See, these kind of guys
with the Cadillac or whatever,
963
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,200
they represent something to Lady.
964
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,480
They represented what
she came up from. Yeah.
965
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,320
# Yes, I love him
966
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,600
# Two or three girls says he
967
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,320
# That he likes as well as me
968
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,360
# But I love him... #
969
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,800
I usually spit after John Levy.
970
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:28,280
If she asked him for $50,
he'd knock her down.
971
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,360
How would he knock her down?
With his fist. His fist in her face?
972
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:32,960
You darn right.
973
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:34,960
In the stomach. Anywhere.
974
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,120
# He beats me, too
975
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,720
# What can I do?
976
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:55,120
If she was hooked, she was hooked,
and I mean on man, chick,
977
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,520
dope, whatever it was.
978
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:58,720
She was hooked.
979
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,160
# But I don't care
980
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,840
# When he takes me in his arms
981
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,320
# The world is bright
982
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,600
# All right... #
983
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:19,280
She's up there singing My Man. She's
a masochist, is what she was. Yes.
984
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,560
All she wanted is a guy to just tell
her he loved her, you know,
985
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,800
but not all the time,
because she digs punishment.
986
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,600
So, when he does say it, it's got to
mean something real wild,
987
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,480
like in the middle
of something crazy.
988
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,960
# I'm his
989
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:45,040
# Forever
990
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:52,480
# More. #
991
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,200
APPLAUSE
992
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,640
Probably late '49,
I was playing trombone.
993
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:01,840
It was like my first
time on the road.
994
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,000
Were you the only two women
on the tour?
995
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,760
Yes.
996
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,840
She was with John Levy at that time.
Mm-hm.
997
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,880
They didn't get along too well.
They had fights, you mean?
998
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,400
Yeah, they had a couple of good
ones, yeah.
999
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,560
One started on the bus.
1000
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,000
Like, I as I say, I climbed,
I tried to get under a seat.
1001
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,400
The other one was in the hotel.
1002
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,360
She hit him over the head
with a Coke bottle or something
1003
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:30,760
and kind of laid his head open.
1004
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,000
And they both went to the hospital.
1005
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,400
Billie Holiday's man at that time,
1006
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,800
Johnny Levy, had been
an informant since 1934.
1007
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,240
He wanted to get rid of
Billie Holiday.
1008
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,240
Why did he want to get rid of her?
1009
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:53,320
He said, "Goddamn it, I sometimes
feel like killing her."
1010
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,040
He couldn't control her.
He couldn't control her.
1011
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,640
So, he had had this fella
to call me,
1012
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:05,680
"Tell Agent Fletcher
that Johnny Levy and Billie Holiday
1013
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,720
"are smoking pot in the hotel."
1014
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,200
Was this before they were arrested
in San Francisco?
1015
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,040
Yes. Much before?
1016
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,400
I'd say two weeks
before she went out there.
1017
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,840
Ordinarily, I wouldn't have bothered
about Billie Holiday.
1018
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:25,000
Why not?
1019
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,560
She was not a trafficker,
she was an addict.
1020
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,960
I knew that she'd been
arrested before.
1021
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,600
Every time she'd been arrested,
she generally dodged the questions.
1022
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,480
And Billie was fond of her
way of living,
1023
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,440
with her fancy coats,
1024
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,160
and fancy automobiles,
1025
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,360
and the jewellery, and the diamonds,
1026
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,320
and she was the big lady.
1027
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:03,000
One Saturday morning, I found out
that she was living in the hotel,
1028
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,000
and that's why I took in a couple
of policemen with me.
1029
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,240
To help kick in the door.
1030
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:14,760
And we both reached
the bathroom at about the same time.
1031
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,000
She'd more or less tried to throw
the stuff into the open toilet.
1032
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,440
We arrested them both.
1033
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,840
We charged them
with the possession of opium.
1034
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:36,040
Do you think Billie was
a victim of the federal agents?
1035
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,920
You victimise yourself
by becoming a junkie.
1036
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:42,360
Was she a victim?
1037
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,680
She was victimised by Johnny Levy.
1038
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,920
Later on, she had
sense enough to leave him.
1039
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:54,960
Billie was indicted.
1040
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:58,840
As soon as she was arrested,
1041
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,520
I immediately put her in Twin Pines,
1042
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:05,080
kept her under full psychiatric
controls for five days,
1043
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:08,160
and proved that she was not addicted
to an opiate.
1044
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,720
You made observations. You have to,
especially if you're psychotic.
1045
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,880
But what's the matter
with the way she is?
1046
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,120
What drove her to a series
of John Levys and heroin?
1047
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,600
I don't like to use this word,
1048
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:22,400
and it's not a good word, but...
1049
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:25,440
..she's really a psychopath.
1050
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:28,080
A psychopath.
1051
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,320
An impulse-driven,
1052
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,280
strong, talented,
1053
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,440
but not dependable individual...
1054
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,800
..who does this because this is what
she has impulse to do right now
1055
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:44,560
and she gets into
all sorts of trouble.
1056
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:47,320
A psychopath.
1057
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,760
Key to this thing is the impulse.
1058
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:54,920
Was there any perversity in this?
1059
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,720
When I said perversity,
I meant a demon.
1060
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:02,200
You know, there's a demon
sometimes eating away
1061
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,960
that kind of forces you to do
something
1062
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,880
that's going to elicit
some kind of shock.
1063
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,760
And this is something
I can identify with.
1064
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,920
As Linda went on, the identification
became much more intense.
1065
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,080
Like Billie, she was attracted
to men who were not
1066
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,320
bringing out, necessarily,
the best in her.
1067
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:34,920
She was married twice
and she was divorced twice.
1068
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:39,800
While she was writing the book,
1069
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,280
Linda became close with
some of the people she interviewed.
1070
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,400
One time, we were in our apartment,
1071
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,960
the phone rang and a man's voice
said, "Can I speak to Linda?"
1072
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,440
Of course I asked, "Who's calling?"
1073
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,280
And he said, "Well, it's Bill."
1074
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:05,800
Linda said, "You know who Bill is?"
I said, "No."
1075
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,360
And she says,
"Well, you do. It's Count Basie."
1076
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,440
Ask me a question about Bill.
1077
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,560
Me ask you a question about him?
Yes.
1078
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,000
THEY LAUGH
1079
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,720
Why don't you call me William?
1080
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,640
Because you asked me
to call you Bill.
1081
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,000
I didn't ask you, I mean...
You commanded me.
1082
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,360
Well, all I'd say, I mean,
my close friends call me Bill.
1083
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:31,600
You want to work with me
and write my book?
1084
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,840
Bill, if I worked with you
to write your book,
1085
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,480
we'd have such terrible fights.
That's right.
1086
01:08:36,480 --> 01:08:40,360
I don't know, I don't think so.
I don't know, because, you know...
1087
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:43,400
I'm not really actually hard
to get along with.
1088
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,720
I don't really feel you are.
1089
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,240
No, but you're a pretty
smart cookie.
1090
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,000
MYRA: I'm not sure what Linda's
relationship
1091
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:55,800
with Basie actually was.
1092
01:08:58,440 --> 01:09:02,160
It's an impression that there was
a closeness based on
1093
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:03,880
what she had said to me.
1094
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,440
I understand that one of the reasons
for your present happiness
1095
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:14,840
is your husband Louis.
1096
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,720
How does he react to some of your
more suggestive lyrics?
1097
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:19,960
Oh, no, he tells me how to sing
1098
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,000
and what to sing, and, oh,
1099
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,080
it's just getting terrible.
SHE LAUGHS
1100
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,440
But your husband's right here
in the dressing room with us,
1101
01:09:26,440 --> 01:09:28,480
Mr Louis McKay.
1102
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:32,520
Mr McKay, tell us something
about how you two work together.
1103
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,960
Well, we have something
like a private agreement.
1104
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,000
I handle all the business,
she handles all the music.
1105
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,480
Because she tells me, sometimes,
"You stay out of my music."
1106
01:09:40,480 --> 01:09:42,680
And does she stay out of
the business? She does.
1107
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,280
Then you get along fine.
1108
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,920
INTERVIEWER: What else are you
doing besides the records
1109
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,240
and touring around the spots?
Well, to be honest,
1110
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:52,360
my dream is supposed to come true,
I'm going to Europe.
1111
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:54,280
Oh, you've never been there? No.
1112
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:56,360
Oh, well. I've always wanted to go.
1113
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:04,200
This is a vacation trip to Europe,
or...? No, honey. No vacations.
1114
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:06,040
All work.
1115
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:09,840
# Are the stars out tonight?
1116
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,160
# I don't know if it's
cloudy or bright
1117
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:18,640
# For I only have eyes for you,
dear
1118
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,040
# The moon may be high
1119
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:24,720
# Millions of people go by
1120
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,600
# But I only have eyes for you
1121
01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:36,720
# I don't know if we're in a
garden
1122
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:42,560
# Or on a crowded avenue
1123
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,080
# You are here, so am I
1124
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:49,720
# Millions of people go by
1125
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:53,400
# But they all disappear from view
1126
01:10:54,600 --> 01:11:00,360
# And I only have eyes for you... #
1127
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,400
What is it that you're after out of
life yourself, Billie, now?
1128
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,080
Right now? Yeah.
1129
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,520
I want a beautiful home
1130
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,600
and I want kids.
1131
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,440
That's what I want.
1132
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,920
She'd always wanted some,
they never ever had any.
1133
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:18,960
I just had two girls there.
1134
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,440
She used to love
to paint their fingernails,
1135
01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:26,880
and she would sing to them,
and she would take them shopping.
1136
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,560
# You are here, so am I
1137
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,280
# Millions of people go by
1138
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:40,080
# But they all disappear
from view... #
1139
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,920
It was her dream to retire someday
1140
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:47,160
with enough money
to buy a big spread
1141
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,680
and have a home for children
who had no mother and father.
1142
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:54,000
# And I only have eyes
1143
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,080
# Big, bulging eyes
1144
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:02,040
# Great big eyes for you. #
1145
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,160
But he was just using her to get
control of her money.
1146
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:06,800
APPLAUSE
1147
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:18,520
I was with her doing
the return to New York.
1148
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,160
This was a tremendously big concert.
1149
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:23,960
I'm sure you've been told all
the people that were on it.
1150
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:26,600
Duke Ellington's Orchestra,
Sarah Vaughan,
1151
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:28,840
Bird, Chris,
1152
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:30,240
Count Basie.
1153
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:36,160
But it seems like everybody there
had come to see one person.
1154
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,440
And I'd like you to know America's
number one song starlet,
1155
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:41,200
Miss Billie Holiday.
1156
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,640
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
1157
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:45,280
She closed the show.
1158
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:51,240
And she sang encore
after encore after en...
1159
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:55,000
If we stayed on that stage an hour,
we stayed on an hour and 30 minutes.
1160
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,640
Well, after the concert
was the fight.
1161
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,360
Louis began to loudmouth
1162
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:10,520
and that started a big rumble,
1163
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,120
which then we all ended up
out in the street.
1164
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:17,800
And he literally knocked
her across the street.
1165
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,040
But she loved that punishment.
1166
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,240
This is the nature of a masochist.
1167
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,600
After he had just beaten her
severely and kicked her,
1168
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,680
they said after they have gotten
the punishment, then they have been
1169
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:39,440
so completely gratified, then they
can just enter into a sexual tryst.
1170
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:47,440
But Louis had a technique going of
trying to control her mind.
1171
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:49,480
It was like hypnotism.
1172
01:13:49,480 --> 01:13:53,400
"You can't depend on anyone but me,
you have no friends but me,
1173
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,800
"you must stay in here and keep
yourself away from everyone but me."
1174
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:02,280
There were days when he just kept
her under lock and key.
1175
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,640
He'd boss her around and tell her
1176
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,280
she couldn't do this,
she couldn't do that.
1177
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:14,880
And she wanted something to eat,
and he said, "Go on to bed.
1178
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,560
"You don't need anything to eat."
1179
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,440
And she'd lost so much weight.
1180
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,160
She looked like a skeleton.
1181
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:27,360
If you were to talk to Louis,
1182
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:29,680
he would probably tell you
an entirely different story.
1183
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,280
He's a pathological liar.
1184
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:35,160
He would probably ask for money.
1185
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:39,240
There was a time he came up
to the apartment after
1186
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:40,720
he hit her on the head.
1187
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:43,040
You said he hit her on the head
with a telephone?
1188
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:45,320
Yeah, yeah. "I locked her
in my bathroom."
1189
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:47,960
He came in and he said,
"I've got a gun here."
1190
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:51,760
I don't want to put this on tape.
1191
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,280
TAPE REWINDS
1192
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,760
You see, I can't write, whether
you're telling me something
1193
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:01,000
about Louis or not.
I can't say it, write it,
1194
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:05,440
because I'm liable
and he's alive and he's tough.
1195
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:07,080
I'm in trouble, not you.
1196
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:18,040
In the process of interviewing
for the book...
1197
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:19,840
..Linda had been threatened...
1198
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:24,040
..by people within the world
that she was travelling.
1199
01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:29,000
I don't know why she was threatened.
1200
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:31,640
She was a journalist,
she was interviewing.
1201
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,560
But I think the threat
was personally motivated.
1202
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:42,840
At times, she said
there was discomfort with how
1203
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:48,120
she was spoken to in terms of
having a relationship with Basie.
1204
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,440
I don't know whether
it was because of the age,
1205
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:56,240
I just know that she had been
threatened...
1206
01:15:56,240 --> 01:16:00,480
..not by Basie but by some of
the people surrounding him.
1207
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,200
OK, uh, I guess we're at an end,
Bill. Do you know something?
1208
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:08,840
This is the end of our interview.
1209
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:16,120
# I'll never smile again
1210
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:23,600
# Until I smile at you
1211
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:32,400
# I'll never laugh again
1212
01:16:34,440 --> 01:16:36,640
# What good would it do?... #
1213
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:38,880
I got a call from a producer,
who asked me
1214
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,160
if I could do an album
with Billie Holiday.
1215
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,920
Of course, I was
fantastically elated!
1216
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,200
I was in love with Billie,
1217
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,960
not necessarily Billie but somebody.
That voice, it turned me on.
1218
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,240
But when I met her,
she was repulsive.
1219
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:03,240
She looked a little scaly,
a little dirty.
1220
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,280
With Billie, her heart
was just broken.
1221
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:15,480
# I'll never love again... #
1222
01:17:15,480 --> 01:17:19,120
She was late, and she had a stool
and she had the vodka.
1223
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:23,000
And her legs were swollen
right down to her ankles.
1224
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,400
She was in pretty bad shape.
1225
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,440
Everybody in the band wanted to cry.
1226
01:17:29,480 --> 01:17:33,120
We knew this couldn't go on.
It was too long.
1227
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,280
Not because she was old
but because she had dissipated.
1228
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,480
Photography being my hobby, I had
a camera strung on my shoulders.
1229
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,000
I've got a little picture.
1230
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:49,080
She's sitting there
with that glass of vodka.
1231
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,000
It's the shadow of death.
1232
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,640
The shadow of death?
The shadow of death.
1233
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:59,400
Of all the songs you've written,
Billie Holiday,
1234
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,800
which one most clearly
tells your story?
1235
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:06,840
Oh, I think Don't Explain. Did you
write the words and the music? Yes.
1236
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,320
Both of them?
I had to help with it.
1237
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:12,080
Close your eyes
and speak the words, like a poet.
1238
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:18,240
Um, "Hush now, don't explain.
1239
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,400
"I know you raised Cain.
1240
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:25,920
"I'm glad that you're back.
Don't explain.
1241
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:30,160
"Quiet. Don't explain.
1242
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:37,520
"You mixed with some dame.
Skip that lipstick. Don't explain."
1243
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,640
# You know that I love you
1244
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:49,200
# And what love endures
1245
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:55,200
# All my thoughts are of you
1246
01:18:56,200 --> 01:19:02,080
# Boy, I'm so completely yours... #
1247
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:05,560
She would call me up, maybe 3:00,
3:30, 4 o'clock
1248
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:11,160
in the morning, and it seemed like
she was almost hallucinating.
1249
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:14,680
And she would say, "Oh, I'm
so scared. I'm here all by myself."
1250
01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:19,440
Like, she would talk to me
for hours and tell me
1251
01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:22,400
about how she got started
in prostitution...
1252
01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:25,240
..she was 13 years old -
1253
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:27,920
and at time that she had
her own girls on the street.
1254
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,960
She was terribly worried
1255
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,600
about whether or not
God would forgive her.
1256
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,040
# My life's...
1257
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:45,360
# ..yours, love
1258
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,000
# Don't explain. #
1259
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:56,320
Everybody wanted
something out of her.
1260
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:57,760
But, then again, this was a woman
1261
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,840
who was only happy when she was
unhappy. Does that sound strange?
1262
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:07,040
She lived in constant fear
that she would be set up.
1263
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,560
How much of it was paranoia?
1264
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,600
There was a good deal
of paranoia.
1265
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:16,600
But you do understand why, how
she got arrested and made headlines.
1266
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:24,280
As far as I'm concerned,
her use of narcotics was
1267
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:28,600
just another way of self-punishment.
1268
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:36,960
She told me that when she was
a little girl down in her hometown,
1269
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:38,800
she was raped.
1270
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:43,360
Who raped her?
1271
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,480
She didn't tell me.
1272
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:47,520
There were tears in her eyes.
1273
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,480
She was always
a vulnerable child to me.
1274
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,920
I don't think she was ever
really in love in her life.
1275
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,960
No-one ever knew what it was.
1276
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:10,040
She just suffered.
1277
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:20,240
She said, "Everything you told me
has come true.
1278
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:27,760
"He has just robbed me
of every dime. I have no money.
1279
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,440
"I don't have any health."
1280
01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:32,840
And she says, "Now he has a white
girl that he's going with.
1281
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,680
"But, you know,
I have finally done it.
1282
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:43,920
"I have filed for divorce,
and at last I have put him down."
1283
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:51,040
The irony of the situation was
that before she could sign those
1284
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:52,880
papers in the hospital,
1285
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:54,560
she died.
1286
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,160
And then that left
all of her estate to go to him.
1287
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:03,480
She went to hospital on the Sunday.
1288
01:22:03,480 --> 01:22:05,120
She knew she was dying.
1289
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:08,160
That damn hospital.
1290
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:11,040
They had her under arrest.
1291
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:12,600
This woman laying in bed!
1292
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:22,000
But she did tell me one time that,
if they ever arrested her again,
1293
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:25,640
that she couldn't go through that
experience and she'd rather be dead.
1294
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:33,800
Heaven help the United States
of America.
1295
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:39,200
No innovator was like her. Nobody!
1296
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:45,200
All she wanted to do was sing.
1297
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,200
She never bothered nobody.
1298
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:54,600
Billie had her Cadillac
and her mink. So what?
1299
01:22:56,160 --> 01:23:00,200
What's wrong with that? Wasn't she
entitled to have a Cadillac?
1300
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:02,120
Wasn't she entitled to have a mink?
1301
01:23:02,120 --> 01:23:05,040
Wasn't she entitled
to have diamonds?
1302
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,680
"Oh, you ain't supposed
to have that. You're a negro!
1303
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:10,720
"Stay in your place." You know?
1304
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:17,520
"All y'all need to do is get
some black-eyed peas and rice.
1305
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,200
"That's all y'all need."
1306
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:22,440
I'm talking about
what we went through.
1307
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:27,840
No vocalist had ever went through
what she went through.
1308
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:33,680
Greatest country in the world -
the most stupid,
1309
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:35,920
the most prejudiced race...
1310
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:38,760
..even as of today.
1311
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:43,960
I'm leaving, quick as I can.
1312
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:46,480
I will not be a part of this farce.
1313
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:57,600
July the 17th. That's when she died.
1314
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:15,120
I closed up
Miss Billie Holiday's casket...
1315
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:17,240
..and put the flowers on it.
1316
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,080
The question, Billie,
that I was going to ask was why
1317
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:41,120
so many jazz greats
seem to die so early?
1318
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:48,040
The only way I can answer
that question is...
1319
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,880
..we try to live
100 days in one day.
1320
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:58,120
I myself have tried to please
so many people.
1321
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,120
I guess we all suffer.
1322
01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:43,480
It was in the middle
of the blizzard of 1978.
1323
01:25:43,480 --> 01:25:47,320
Linda was going to Washington, DC,
for a Basie concert.
1324
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:54,240
And we received a phone call
from my mother.
1325
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,320
She said, "You have to come home.
Linda just died."
1326
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:08,480
The police told my parents
that she had committed suicide
1327
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:11,280
and jumped out of
the window, and...
1328
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:13,320
..we were just devastated.
1329
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:17,040
And also...
1330
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:21,040
..you know, unsure
that that was how she died.
1331
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:25,720
To our knowledge, there was no note.
1332
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:29,840
She was a writer,
and there never was a letter.
1333
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:37,320
At the time, the Washington, DC,
police did not have a great
1334
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:42,560
reputation for integrity,
and we really questioned how much
1335
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:45,640
they had actually investigated
Linda's death.
1336
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:51,320
My thought is that...
1337
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:54,160
..somebody had pushed her.
1338
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,840
I have absolutely
no evidence of it...
1339
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:06,600
..only what I know of Linda
and the surrounding situations.
1340
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:12,920
When Linda died, it appeared
that she had been getting ready to
1341
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:17,560
go to sleep, because one of her
rituals was to put on a face mask.
1342
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,480
When she was found,
she had the face mask on.
1343
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:29,080
# I love you, Porgy
1344
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:34,800
# Don't let him take me
1345
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:38,440
# Don't let him handle me
1346
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:42,480
# And drive me mad
1347
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:47,840
# If you can keep me
1348
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:51,240
# I want to stay here
1349
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:55,120
# With you forever
1350
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:58,560
# I've got my man... #
1351
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:03,480
I just thank the Lord
that I did know this girl
1352
01:28:03,480 --> 01:28:05,280
when things were different.
1353
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:07,880
# I know he's coming... #
1354
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:13,120
And I would pray
that she come back.
1355
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:17,680
# He's going to handle me and... #
1356
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,680
Wouldn't that be nice?
Just one day?
1357
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:21,440
# Hold me so... #
1358
01:28:21,440 --> 01:28:24,440
But you had to get the ticket
to get there.
1359
01:28:24,440 --> 01:28:28,600
# It's going to be
1360
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,040
# Like dying... #
1361
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:33,160
I can't cry about Billie now.
1362
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:36,480
I don't even cry about her
when I listen to her.
1363
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:39,200
She makes me smile, even sadly.
1364
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:40,840
# But when he comes... #
1365
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:42,440
And it's just too bad that it took
1366
01:28:42,440 --> 01:28:45,680
all this time
for all of this shit to come up.
1367
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:51,560
# I'll have to go
1368
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,840
# I love you, Porgy
1369
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:02,200
# Don't let him take me
1370
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:06,680
# Don't let him handle me
1371
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:12,280
# And drive me mad
1372
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:16,160
# If you can keep me
1373
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:19,080
# I've got to stay here
1374
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:23,640
# With you forever
1375
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:28,480
# I've got my...
1376
01:29:28,480 --> 01:29:35,640
# ..man. #
1377
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:41,320
APPLAUSE
111294
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