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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,844 --> 00:00:13,547 (ringing) 2 00:00:31,565 --> 00:00:34,434 (phone ringing) 3 00:01:06,099 --> 00:01:09,069 POSEY: I said, "Well, were you there? Did you do it?" 4 00:01:09,135 --> 00:01:10,537 You know. And she said, "I was there, 5 00:01:10,604 --> 00:01:12,105 you know, but I didn't do nothin'." 6 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:20,280 BEASLEY: She said, "Then I went from one room to the next... 7 00:01:20,346 --> 00:01:21,948 "and I saw the children 8 00:01:22,015 --> 00:01:25,085 in each bedroom, and they appeared to be dead." 9 00:01:26,887 --> 00:01:31,357 GADDIS: We caught her for possession of drugs. 10 00:01:31,424 --> 00:01:34,460 On the way down to booking, she said that 11 00:01:34,528 --> 00:01:36,797 she was involved in a murder 12 00:01:36,863 --> 00:01:39,199 in Fayetteville, North Carolina. 13 00:01:45,038 --> 00:01:48,609 BRISENTINE: What we have here is a gal who screwed up. 14 00:01:50,511 --> 00:01:53,847 You could never call her a liar. 15 00:01:53,914 --> 00:01:56,382 But you can't call her 16 00:01:56,449 --> 00:01:58,218 a truth‐teller, either. 17 00:01:58,284 --> 00:02:00,486 ♪♪ ♪♪ 18 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:04,725 MORRIS: Helena Stoeckley is what makes this story 19 00:02:04,791 --> 00:02:06,693 so deeply bizarre. 20 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,763 She didn't confess to one person... 21 00:02:09,830 --> 00:02:11,532 or two people... 22 00:02:11,598 --> 00:02:14,735 or three people or four people. 23 00:02:14,801 --> 00:02:16,302 She confessed... 24 00:02:16,369 --> 00:02:20,206 many, many, many, many times 25 00:02:20,273 --> 00:02:22,843 over a decade. 26 00:02:22,909 --> 00:02:24,911 ♪♪ ♪♪ 27 00:02:29,683 --> 00:02:31,852 The wife and two young daughters of an Army doctor 28 00:02:31,918 --> 00:02:35,321 were found dead in their home in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. 29 00:02:35,388 --> 00:02:37,791 SAM DONALDSON: You may remember the crime back in 1970. 30 00:02:37,858 --> 00:02:39,860 One of America's most sensational murder cases. 31 00:02:39,926 --> 00:02:41,361 One of the most bizarre murder cases. 32 00:02:41,427 --> 00:02:43,363 DAN RATHER: The most complicated murder case 33 00:02:43,429 --> 00:02:44,831 ‐in history. ‐MacDonald says the murderers 34 00:02:44,898 --> 00:02:47,367 were three men and a woman shouting, 35 00:02:47,433 --> 00:02:50,737 "Acid is great. Kill all the pigs." 36 00:02:50,804 --> 00:02:53,406 It's a baffling story the more you begin to look into it. 37 00:02:53,473 --> 00:02:55,876 Jeffrey MacDonald's life became the subject of a book. 38 00:02:55,942 --> 00:02:57,143 BARBARA WALTERS: A popular miniseries. 39 00:02:57,210 --> 00:03:00,013 A television movie called Fatal Vision. 40 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,215 REPORTER: The best‐seller portrayed MacDonald 41 00:03:02,282 --> 00:03:03,517 as a cold‐blooded killer. 42 00:03:03,584 --> 00:03:05,385 REPORTER 2: Today, MacDonald was sentenced 43 00:03:05,451 --> 00:03:07,187 to three life terms in prison. 44 00:03:08,589 --> 00:03:11,357 MAN: Something really, really bad happened here. 45 00:03:11,424 --> 00:03:12,759 It was a miscarriage of justice. 46 00:03:12,826 --> 00:03:15,495 I cannot overcome Fatal Vision. 47 00:03:15,562 --> 00:03:17,430 MORRIS: What happens when a narrative 48 00:03:17,497 --> 00:03:19,766 takes the place of reality? 49 00:03:19,833 --> 00:03:22,636 It's almost as if nothing really happened in history 50 00:03:22,703 --> 00:03:26,573 unless it has been recorded in a movie 51 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:28,041 or in a television series. 52 00:03:28,108 --> 00:03:30,511 WOMAN: A new book by acclaimed author and filmmaker 53 00:03:30,577 --> 00:03:32,679 Errol Morris says that the case 54 00:03:32,746 --> 00:03:34,548 may be more complicated than previously thought. 55 00:03:34,615 --> 00:03:37,784 MacDONALD: I did not hurt my wife or my children. 56 00:03:37,851 --> 00:03:39,452 HELENA: That evening I was wearing 57 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,588 a blonde wig and a floppy hat. 58 00:03:41,655 --> 00:03:44,625 ‐MAN: An innocent man is in jail today. ‐MILDRED: The man is guilty 59 00:03:44,691 --> 00:03:46,727 ‐as can be. ‐I am innocent. 60 00:03:46,793 --> 00:03:48,662 He's lucky I haven't gone out and killed him. 61 00:03:48,729 --> 00:03:50,797 MacDONALD: I am not that monster. 62 00:03:58,672 --> 00:04:00,173 NEWSMAN: In Raleigh, North Carolina, 63 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,008 a former Army doctor is on trial 64 00:04:02,075 --> 00:04:04,344 for the murder of his family back in 1970. 65 00:04:04,410 --> 00:04:07,914 ♪♪ ♪♪ 66 00:04:07,981 --> 00:04:09,650 NEWSWOMAN: This is the second time 67 00:04:09,716 --> 00:04:12,085 Dr. MacDonald has been charged with the murders. 68 00:04:12,152 --> 00:04:14,821 DAN RATHER: A federal prosecutor once called it 69 00:04:14,888 --> 00:04:17,958 the most complicated murder case in history. 70 00:04:18,024 --> 00:04:19,492 I'm not gonna be found guilty. 71 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,662 I didn't see any evidence that pointed to that, 72 00:04:21,728 --> 00:04:24,831 and I know what happened that night, and I'm not guilty. 73 00:04:26,767 --> 00:04:28,134 How are you today? 74 00:04:28,201 --> 00:04:30,036 FREDDY: We've gone through 75 00:04:30,103 --> 00:04:31,672 every legal means possible 76 00:04:31,738 --> 00:04:34,274 to bring this man to where we are today, 77 00:04:34,340 --> 00:04:35,876 and that is in court, 78 00:04:35,942 --> 00:04:38,845 charged with three counts of premeditated murder. 79 00:04:38,912 --> 00:04:41,815 KEELER: The start of this trial that I've been building up to 80 00:04:41,882 --> 00:04:43,817 over many years, I'm tossing and turning 81 00:04:43,884 --> 00:04:45,886 and having nightmares about being late. 82 00:04:45,952 --> 00:04:48,755 If you're an OCD person, you don't want to be late. 83 00:04:48,822 --> 00:04:52,593 SEGAL: We have already had a full and fair hearing 84 00:04:52,659 --> 00:04:54,995 in the military in 1970. 85 00:04:55,061 --> 00:04:56,997 I mean, you can't ask for more than what we did then. 86 00:04:57,063 --> 00:05:00,466 And seems to me that one trial, one proceeding is enough, 87 00:05:00,534 --> 00:05:03,036 even though I'm confident we can win again. 88 00:05:03,103 --> 00:05:04,771 ♪♪ ♪♪ 89 00:05:04,838 --> 00:05:06,372 MASEWICZ: When he got indicted, 90 00:05:06,439 --> 00:05:08,709 I was very excited. 91 00:05:09,843 --> 00:05:12,445 In my mind, it ranks right up there 92 00:05:12,513 --> 00:05:16,082 with Jack the Ripper and Sharon Tate, 93 00:05:16,149 --> 00:05:17,183 Ted Bundy. 94 00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:18,985 I‐I mean, it's right up there. 95 00:05:21,154 --> 00:05:24,457 I made an agreement with my husband. 96 00:05:24,525 --> 00:05:26,993 "I'm going to the trial." "Okay." 97 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:29,062 ♪♪ ♪♪ 98 00:05:35,902 --> 00:05:38,038 KEELER: "At exactly 9:45 a. m., 99 00:05:38,104 --> 00:05:41,007 "MacDonald walked through the wooden doors into the modern, 100 00:05:41,074 --> 00:05:43,243 "air‐conditioned courtroom number one 101 00:05:43,309 --> 00:05:46,680 that is to be his arena for the next six to eight weeks." 102 00:05:46,747 --> 00:05:48,682 (low, indistinct chatter) 103 00:05:52,318 --> 00:05:53,987 BAILIFF: All rise. 104 00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:03,564 ♪♪ ♪♪ 105 00:06:09,235 --> 00:06:10,837 May it please the court, 106 00:06:10,904 --> 00:06:13,206 ladies and gentlemen of the jury, 107 00:06:13,273 --> 00:06:15,976 my name is Wade Smith. 108 00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:20,947 SMITH: I met Bernie a few weeks before the trial. 109 00:06:21,014 --> 00:06:23,383 He was very different from North Carolina lawyers. 110 00:06:23,449 --> 00:06:25,385 That was okay with me. 111 00:06:30,524 --> 00:06:33,860 This is a case about a family. 112 00:06:33,927 --> 00:06:36,997 It is a story of happy people. 113 00:06:38,665 --> 00:06:39,666 Yes. 114 00:06:39,733 --> 00:06:42,503 Bernie and I had discussed it. 115 00:06:42,569 --> 00:06:44,838 There was a certain way 116 00:06:44,905 --> 00:06:47,440 that North Carolina lawyers would do this. 117 00:06:48,709 --> 00:06:52,646 And I felt confident I knew how to do it. 118 00:06:54,214 --> 00:06:56,116 It's a story of good people: 119 00:06:56,182 --> 00:06:59,586 a mother, a father and two children, 120 00:06:59,653 --> 00:07:02,088 five and two. 121 00:07:02,155 --> 00:07:04,190 This was a good man. 122 00:07:04,257 --> 00:07:06,326 A loving husband. 123 00:07:06,392 --> 00:07:08,862 A father who loved his children. 124 00:07:10,130 --> 00:07:12,766 A man who would never harm his children. 125 00:07:12,833 --> 00:07:15,201 We'll show you how they had eagerly anticipated 126 00:07:15,268 --> 00:07:17,504 the arrival of a new little one. 127 00:07:19,305 --> 00:07:22,442 And then we will show you how the whole thing, 128 00:07:22,509 --> 00:07:25,879 in a matter of minutes, ended. 129 00:07:25,946 --> 00:07:27,113 Ashes. 130 00:07:28,114 --> 00:07:29,115 Ashes. 131 00:07:41,895 --> 00:07:44,831 KEELER: "In a small locked cell on the seventh floor 132 00:07:44,898 --> 00:07:46,399 "of the Federal Building here, 133 00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:48,368 "some of the most important witnesses in the case 134 00:07:48,434 --> 00:07:50,436 "of The United States v. Jeffrey R. MacDonald 135 00:07:50,504 --> 00:07:56,276 "sit in cardboard boxes, plastic bags and vials waiting. 136 00:07:56,342 --> 00:07:59,880 "Those mute witnesses‐‐ a bloody, blue pajama top 137 00:07:59,946 --> 00:08:03,283 "filled with ice pick holes, a bloody sheet, 138 00:08:03,349 --> 00:08:05,686 "pieces of floor covered with bloodstains‐‐ 139 00:08:05,752 --> 00:08:07,453 "will become the center of attention 140 00:08:07,521 --> 00:08:09,255 "as the United States seeks to prove 141 00:08:09,322 --> 00:08:11,892 "that Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald killed his wife 142 00:08:11,958 --> 00:08:14,928 and two children almost a decade ago." 143 00:08:14,995 --> 00:08:16,997 ♪♪ ♪♪ 144 00:08:20,166 --> 00:08:21,802 I wore that pajama top. 145 00:08:21,868 --> 00:08:24,938 I went to the jail cell where we kept it. 146 00:08:25,772 --> 00:08:27,440 And tried it on. 147 00:08:27,508 --> 00:08:30,711 I lay down on the, uh, sheet. 148 00:08:32,278 --> 00:08:34,648 I wanted to feel them and touch them, 149 00:08:34,715 --> 00:08:37,718 so that when I saw them at the trial 150 00:08:37,784 --> 00:08:40,053 they would be friends of mine. 151 00:08:47,861 --> 00:08:51,031 I had tried one case in my life to a jury, 152 00:08:51,097 --> 00:08:53,033 which was a misdemeanor conviction, 153 00:08:53,099 --> 00:08:55,301 of which the guy got unsupervised probation 154 00:08:55,368 --> 00:08:57,103 and $100 fine. 155 00:08:57,170 --> 00:09:01,508 Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jim Blackburn. 156 00:09:01,575 --> 00:09:04,444 I think we're going to make it easy for you to understand 157 00:09:04,511 --> 00:09:08,414 that the circumstantial physical evidence in this case 158 00:09:08,481 --> 00:09:11,652 points swiftly and unerringly 159 00:09:11,718 --> 00:09:15,956 to the fact that one person killed his family, 160 00:09:16,022 --> 00:09:19,893 and that that person is the defendant. 161 00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:24,598 Mildred Kassab used to say she wanted the title 162 00:09:24,665 --> 00:09:26,667 of the book about the case to be 163 00:09:26,733 --> 00:09:27,901 The Blue Pajama Top, 'cause that was 164 00:09:27,968 --> 00:09:29,169 this critical piece of evidence. 165 00:09:31,137 --> 00:09:33,740 Your Honor, I would mark for identification 166 00:09:33,807 --> 00:09:37,210 government exhibit 306. 167 00:09:40,113 --> 00:09:42,549 MacDonald claimed that this pajama top 168 00:09:42,616 --> 00:09:45,586 was pulled over his head, around his wrists, 169 00:09:45,652 --> 00:09:47,754 and it was stabbed through it when MacDonald was fighting 170 00:09:47,821 --> 00:09:49,923 the intruders in the living room. 171 00:09:51,057 --> 00:09:53,259 There's a problem with that argument 172 00:09:53,326 --> 00:09:57,964 that's big enough to drive a truck through. 173 00:09:58,031 --> 00:10:01,568 We decided we were going to do a courtroom demonstration. 174 00:10:01,635 --> 00:10:03,737 I would ask you if this is a reasonable facsimile 175 00:10:03,804 --> 00:10:06,807 of the pajama top you used in any of your experiments. 176 00:10:06,873 --> 00:10:08,909 Reasonable, yes. 177 00:10:08,975 --> 00:10:11,044 This same scene is later shown 178 00:10:11,111 --> 00:10:12,979 during the TV series Fatal Vision, 179 00:10:13,046 --> 00:10:14,648 and it was perfect. 180 00:10:14,715 --> 00:10:16,449 Brian puts it around his wrists, 181 00:10:16,517 --> 00:10:18,284 and says to the jury, 182 00:10:18,351 --> 00:10:20,320 (echoing character on TV): "Putting great trust in Mr. Blackburn." 183 00:10:20,386 --> 00:10:22,623 Gonna ask him to get the ice pick 184 00:10:22,689 --> 00:10:24,891 and come over and stab him. 185 00:10:24,958 --> 00:10:26,527 Wade and Bernie are giggling, 186 00:10:26,593 --> 00:10:28,529 'cause they think this is stupid. 187 00:10:28,595 --> 00:10:31,698 (grunting) 188 00:10:31,765 --> 00:10:33,900 Two things happen immediately. 189 00:10:33,967 --> 00:10:35,135 Ow! 190 00:10:35,201 --> 00:10:37,904 I accidentally stab Brian in the wrist. 191 00:10:37,971 --> 00:10:40,040 The significance of that is, 192 00:10:40,106 --> 00:10:43,176 MacDonald had no injuries on his wrists. 193 00:10:44,811 --> 00:10:46,680 The other thing is, 194 00:10:46,747 --> 00:10:48,915 the holes shredded. 195 00:10:48,982 --> 00:10:51,017 I would ask you to examine that pajama top 196 00:10:51,084 --> 00:10:52,953 and tell us what you see. 197 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,389 I see a number of tears, 198 00:10:56,456 --> 00:10:59,325 and they do appear to be, in fact, tears. 199 00:10:59,392 --> 00:11:03,029 There were 48 holes in MacDonald's blue pajama top, 200 00:11:03,096 --> 00:11:05,666 and they were perfectly round. 201 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:09,335 The other side quit giggling. 202 00:11:09,402 --> 00:11:11,337 During the course of this trial, 203 00:11:11,404 --> 00:11:14,274 we are going to show you, ladies and gentlemen, 204 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:17,077 that those holes in that pajama top 205 00:11:17,143 --> 00:11:20,914 got in that pajama top when it was in a stationary, 206 00:11:20,981 --> 00:11:24,384 not a moving, position. 207 00:11:29,823 --> 00:11:32,759 The way you win a complicated murder trial 208 00:11:32,826 --> 00:11:34,460 is you take a complicated set of facts 209 00:11:34,528 --> 00:11:35,629 and try to make them simple. 210 00:11:35,696 --> 00:11:37,197 In the living room, 211 00:11:37,263 --> 00:11:39,299 where he said this struggle happened 212 00:11:39,365 --> 00:11:41,401 and that his pajama top was torn, 213 00:11:41,467 --> 00:11:44,671 the only thing that was found in the shag carpet 214 00:11:44,738 --> 00:11:46,773 was a piece of Christmas tinsel. 215 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,942 There were no threads. 216 00:11:49,009 --> 00:11:51,177 I don't think there was a single one 217 00:11:51,244 --> 00:11:53,246 that matched that pajama top. 218 00:11:53,313 --> 00:11:55,749 But there were dozens of those threads 219 00:11:55,816 --> 00:11:58,952 found in the master bedroom. 220 00:11:59,019 --> 00:12:01,154 And, indeed, some of the threads 221 00:12:01,221 --> 00:12:04,925 in the master bedroom are found under Colette's body. 222 00:12:05,926 --> 00:12:08,061 How in the world does that happen? 223 00:12:09,495 --> 00:12:11,632 We know, from the evidence, ladies and gentlemen, 224 00:12:11,698 --> 00:12:13,967 that she fought. 225 00:12:14,034 --> 00:12:17,070 She fought mighty hard before she died. 226 00:12:24,745 --> 00:12:27,981 KIMBERLEY: Daddy! Daddy! 227 00:12:28,048 --> 00:12:32,986 BLACKBURN: You know those words, "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy." 228 00:12:33,053 --> 00:12:35,522 I believe those words were said. 229 00:12:35,589 --> 00:12:38,258 But I think you can infer from the evidence 230 00:12:38,324 --> 00:12:41,595 that were said as Kimberley came to the master bedroom 231 00:12:41,662 --> 00:12:44,464 to find out what was going on from her father and mother. 232 00:12:47,267 --> 00:12:52,138 Threads from his pajama top are found underneath the bedding 233 00:12:52,205 --> 00:12:54,908 in Kimberley's room. 234 00:12:54,975 --> 00:12:58,478 We suggest that they came from the blue pajama top itself, 235 00:12:58,545 --> 00:13:03,316 as Kimberley MacDonald was placed in that bed. 236 00:13:06,820 --> 00:13:08,254 Colette's not dead. 237 00:13:08,321 --> 00:13:11,825 By some miracle, she is not dead. 238 00:13:13,393 --> 00:13:18,264 Colette went to protect or see what was happening to Kristen. 239 00:13:21,868 --> 00:13:23,604 After Colette went to Kristen's room, 240 00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:28,575 she was banged again with the club and fell over and bled. 241 00:13:28,642 --> 00:13:32,378 We know that at least one thread matching the pajama top 242 00:13:32,445 --> 00:13:35,849 and the splinter matching the club were found in that room. 243 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:45,526 MacDonald took his wife Colette and laid her on the bedsheet. 244 00:13:45,592 --> 00:13:48,529 There are massive amounts of blood on that sheet. 245 00:13:48,595 --> 00:13:53,967 There's a footprint leaving that room. 246 00:13:54,034 --> 00:13:56,402 How is that footprint made? 247 00:13:56,469 --> 00:13:58,404 You can infer, from the evidence, 248 00:13:58,471 --> 00:14:03,176 that he made those footprints as he exited that room. 249 00:14:03,243 --> 00:14:06,547 MacDonald said that he never went near the sheet, 250 00:14:06,613 --> 00:14:07,881 never touched it. 251 00:14:07,948 --> 00:14:09,415 "Never touched it." 252 00:14:09,482 --> 00:14:13,253 He had his piping on his pajamas, 253 00:14:13,319 --> 00:14:16,289 is found on that sheet, in blood. 254 00:14:20,727 --> 00:14:22,796 MacDonald dumps her, really, on the floor 255 00:14:22,863 --> 00:14:25,866 in the master bedroom, over the threads that are there. 256 00:14:25,932 --> 00:14:27,901 That's why she's on top of the threads. 257 00:14:29,135 --> 00:14:31,705 Things had simply gone beyond repair. 258 00:14:31,772 --> 00:14:34,741 You can't go back and make the family happy again, 259 00:14:34,808 --> 00:14:37,477 drink liquor and watch Johnny Carson. 260 00:14:37,544 --> 00:14:40,480 It has gone too far. 261 00:14:40,547 --> 00:14:44,317 Then all bets are off and everything changes. 262 00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:49,590 Kristen is killed, stabbed over 30 times. 263 00:14:51,692 --> 00:14:54,828 And then, with Colette, he takes his pajama top off 264 00:14:54,895 --> 00:14:57,097 and puts it on her chest 265 00:14:57,163 --> 00:15:01,568 to contaminate that piece of evidence, 266 00:15:01,635 --> 00:15:05,639 as an explanation of why her blood's on that pajama top. 267 00:15:05,706 --> 00:15:08,308 And then stabs her. 268 00:15:08,374 --> 00:15:12,445 Stabs her with the ice pick through the pajama top. 269 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,718 The pajama top was already on Colette's chest. 270 00:15:17,784 --> 00:15:19,753 I think you can find, from the evidence, 271 00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:22,488 that the defendant made that terrible mistake 272 00:15:22,556 --> 00:15:25,225 of stabbing Colette with the ice pick 273 00:15:25,291 --> 00:15:27,528 through that blue pajama top. 274 00:15:27,594 --> 00:15:31,097 And that is how those holes got there. 275 00:15:35,201 --> 00:15:37,370 KIMBERLEY: Daddy! Daddy! 276 00:15:37,437 --> 00:15:40,741 BLACKBURN: The sad thing about this is, 277 00:15:40,807 --> 00:15:43,276 MacDonald could've stopped. 278 00:15:47,981 --> 00:15:49,950 He didn't have to hit Kimberley. 279 00:15:50,016 --> 00:15:52,853 He didn't have to stab them. 280 00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,522 He could've let Kristen live. 281 00:15:55,589 --> 00:15:59,159 He absolutely could've let Kristen live. 282 00:16:01,461 --> 00:16:04,865 Now, it's true he would've lost his medical license, 283 00:16:04,931 --> 00:16:07,601 it's true he'd have been dishonorably discharged 284 00:16:07,668 --> 00:16:10,070 from the Army, it's true he'd have been criminally prosecuted 285 00:16:10,136 --> 00:16:11,738 and gone to prison in disgrace. 286 00:16:11,805 --> 00:16:14,474 But Kristen would've lived. 287 00:16:14,541 --> 00:16:18,178 That's a trade‐off that he chose not to make. 288 00:16:36,730 --> 00:16:38,932 HOST: Does it seem strange to you that after a long period, 289 00:16:38,999 --> 00:16:43,036 that no one else has been, uh, either pursued or confessed, 290 00:16:43,103 --> 00:16:46,039 uh, to this particular crime? 291 00:16:46,106 --> 00:16:47,508 It's not really quite accurate 292 00:16:47,574 --> 00:16:49,510 to say that no one has confessed. 293 00:16:55,181 --> 00:16:56,783 KEELER: "For nine years, 294 00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:58,785 "Helena Stoeckley has been an illusive specter 295 00:16:58,852 --> 00:17:01,187 "haunting the Jeffrey MacDonald murder case. 296 00:17:01,254 --> 00:17:02,923 "MacDonald's counsel Bernard L. Segal said, 297 00:17:02,989 --> 00:17:06,292 'There are a whole series of things that she will tell 298 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,494 that are central to this case.'" 299 00:17:13,033 --> 00:17:15,101 MALLEY: Bernie wanted to subpoena her as a material witness. 300 00:17:15,168 --> 00:17:18,138 So they sent the FBI out to get her. 301 00:17:22,242 --> 00:17:24,811 There is an answer to this, 302 00:17:24,878 --> 00:17:28,582 and the answer has nothing to do with a pajama top. 303 00:17:32,385 --> 00:17:36,523 This was the lady in the floppy hat and the blonde wig. 304 00:17:37,724 --> 00:17:41,995 I had wanted to meet her for nine years. 305 00:17:42,062 --> 00:17:46,032 MALLEY: At some point, it became clear that the game here wasn't 306 00:17:46,099 --> 00:17:49,202 to prove that Jeff was not the kind of guy who did it, 307 00:17:49,269 --> 00:17:51,204 but to prove Helena did it. 308 00:17:51,271 --> 00:17:52,673 (indistinct chatter) 309 00:17:54,307 --> 00:17:57,110 MASEWICZ: I had heard so much about Helena Stoeckley. 310 00:17:57,177 --> 00:18:00,346 Who is this woman? 311 00:18:00,413 --> 00:18:02,082 Well, here she come. 312 00:18:02,148 --> 00:18:04,350 (hushed chatter) 313 00:18:06,987 --> 00:18:09,355 The air went out of the room. 314 00:18:09,422 --> 00:18:12,759 Everybody turned to see. 315 00:18:14,728 --> 00:18:17,463 KEELER: She was sort of weird and twitchy‐looking, 316 00:18:17,531 --> 00:18:21,367 she had this very dark, thick hair, and, you know, 317 00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:22,569 she had a face like somebody 318 00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:24,838 who's put a lot of miles on her face. 319 00:18:33,246 --> 00:18:36,316 SEGAL: Ms. Stoeckley, I want to ask you about 320 00:18:36,382 --> 00:18:37,684 the early morning hours 321 00:18:37,751 --> 00:18:41,421 of February 17 of 1970, all right? 322 00:18:41,487 --> 00:18:43,590 HELENA: Yes, sir. 323 00:18:43,657 --> 00:18:45,759 SMITH: This could be the end. 324 00:18:45,826 --> 00:18:47,761 This could be it. 325 00:18:47,828 --> 00:18:49,129 She could tell the truth. 326 00:18:49,195 --> 00:18:51,998 This case could be over. 327 00:18:52,065 --> 00:18:54,701 This man could be free. 328 00:18:54,768 --> 00:18:57,838 SEGAL: Do you have a specific recollection 329 00:18:57,904 --> 00:19:00,774 of where you were between midnight, 330 00:19:00,841 --> 00:19:06,647 or shortly after midnight, and 4:35 in the morning? 331 00:19:08,314 --> 00:19:10,517 HELENA: No, sir. 332 00:19:13,353 --> 00:19:17,490 SEGAL: Do you have any reason to believe 333 00:19:17,558 --> 00:19:20,694 that you have seen that scene before? 334 00:19:30,671 --> 00:19:32,539 No, sir. 335 00:19:32,606 --> 00:19:35,776 She absolutely, absolutely shut it down. 336 00:19:35,842 --> 00:19:38,645 SEGAL: I represent to the court that during interviews with me 337 00:19:38,712 --> 00:19:41,782 and with other persons present, she stated she had 338 00:19:41,848 --> 00:19:46,419 a recollection of standing over a body, holding a candle. 339 00:19:49,823 --> 00:19:52,425 Well, it was confounding for all of us, because... 340 00:19:52,492 --> 00:19:54,761 this was a woman that, maybe, 341 00:19:54,828 --> 00:19:58,264 could put an end to this whole thing. 342 00:20:01,968 --> 00:20:04,938 It was a very, very hard day. 343 00:20:05,005 --> 00:20:06,439 (gavel banging, hushed chatter) 344 00:20:06,507 --> 00:20:09,275 DUPREE: Call your next witness. 345 00:20:13,379 --> 00:20:15,481 NEWS ANCHOR: While Helena Stoeckley told everyone 346 00:20:15,549 --> 00:20:17,117 MacDonald was telling the truth, 347 00:20:17,183 --> 00:20:19,352 on the witness stand, her mind went blank. 348 00:20:19,419 --> 00:20:22,823 A judge later said Stoeckley's memory resembled a light bulb 349 00:20:22,889 --> 00:20:25,726 not screwed tight, blinking on and off. 350 00:20:27,594 --> 00:20:30,496 BEASLEY: I asked her if she was involved with this, uh, 351 00:20:30,564 --> 00:20:32,098 done this at Fort Bragg. 352 00:20:32,165 --> 00:20:35,468 She told me that, uh, in her mind, it seemed that she saw 353 00:20:35,536 --> 00:20:37,838 this thing happen, but she wasn't sure. 354 00:20:37,904 --> 00:20:39,506 REPORTER: Is that what she's saying now? 355 00:20:39,573 --> 00:20:41,875 Uh, she says she don't remember now. 356 00:20:41,942 --> 00:20:43,844 (gallery murmuring) 357 00:20:46,246 --> 00:20:47,614 SMITH: We pushed forward 358 00:20:47,681 --> 00:20:49,883 because we had interviewed these people 359 00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:52,318 who had talked with her over all the years. 360 00:20:55,656 --> 00:20:57,758 MORRIS: You were brought up to Raleigh. 361 00:20:57,824 --> 00:21:00,060 ‐You were subpoenaed. ‐UNDERHILL: Right. 362 00:21:00,126 --> 00:21:01,862 (gallery murmuring) 363 00:21:01,928 --> 00:21:05,331 SMITH: She had revealed to people that 364 00:21:05,398 --> 00:21:07,668 they had murdered his family. 365 00:21:14,007 --> 00:21:16,109 BRISENTINE: I was supposed to be testifying 366 00:21:16,176 --> 00:21:18,144 at the MacDonald trial 367 00:21:18,211 --> 00:21:19,713 taking place in Raleigh. 368 00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:21,782 When she said, 369 00:21:21,848 --> 00:21:25,451 ‐No. ‐"No, I wasn't there," she's 370 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:27,420 not telling the truth. 371 00:21:27,487 --> 00:21:30,156 POSEY: And I said, "Well, were you there? 372 00:21:30,223 --> 00:21:32,759 Did you do it?" You know, and she said, "I was there. 373 00:21:32,826 --> 00:21:34,895 You know, but I didn't do nothing." 374 00:21:37,163 --> 00:21:39,566 (siren sounding) 375 00:21:39,633 --> 00:21:40,967 GADDIS: Well, I‐I got notice 376 00:21:41,034 --> 00:21:42,435 that there was a trial going on, 377 00:21:42,503 --> 00:21:44,270 and that, uh, I was subpoenaed. 378 00:21:44,337 --> 00:21:48,642 And to me, Helena was just as guilty as sin. 379 00:21:55,649 --> 00:21:58,151 I have never known Helena to lie to me. 380 00:21:58,218 --> 00:22:00,554 (distant barking) 381 00:22:00,621 --> 00:22:03,790 She had always been truthful. 382 00:22:06,927 --> 00:22:08,461 Judge Dupree could permit the jury 383 00:22:08,529 --> 00:22:11,097 to hear the things that she had said 384 00:22:11,164 --> 00:22:16,069 to all these people. That's why they were there, and 385 00:22:16,136 --> 00:22:17,303 Judge Dupree didn't permit that. 386 00:22:17,370 --> 00:22:19,873 (soft chatter) 387 00:22:23,476 --> 00:22:25,045 BLACKBURN: There are a lot of judges 388 00:22:25,111 --> 00:22:27,480 who would've let that evidence in. 389 00:22:29,182 --> 00:22:30,517 That was a surprise to me. 390 00:22:30,584 --> 00:22:32,719 (distorted conversation) 391 00:22:32,786 --> 00:22:36,590 Bernie gets into a tirade in front of him. 392 00:22:36,657 --> 00:22:38,324 How unfair he's being to him and all this stuff. 393 00:22:38,391 --> 00:22:41,027 And Dupree just listens to him, 394 00:22:41,094 --> 00:22:42,028 lets him 395 00:22:42,095 --> 00:22:43,029 go on forever. 396 00:22:43,096 --> 00:22:44,998 Wade's just in despair. 397 00:22:45,065 --> 00:22:46,066 (distorted conversation) 398 00:22:46,132 --> 00:22:49,570 SMITH: We would never get in a war 399 00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:50,837 with the judge. 400 00:22:50,904 --> 00:22:52,038 (distorted): I will not vary the rule... 401 00:22:52,105 --> 00:22:55,141 SMITH: That's not the way it was 402 00:22:55,208 --> 00:22:58,845 normally done in North Carolina. 403 00:23:06,887 --> 00:23:09,122 ♪♪ ♪♪ 404 00:23:23,169 --> 00:23:26,206 What's wrong with this picture? 405 00:23:26,272 --> 00:23:27,808 You have a witness. 406 00:23:27,874 --> 00:23:31,878 You know that she's been confessing to a lot of people, 407 00:23:31,945 --> 00:23:33,580 repeatedly. 408 00:23:33,647 --> 00:23:34,915 The judge 409 00:23:34,981 --> 00:23:37,518 and the prosecutors worked hand in hand 410 00:23:37,584 --> 00:23:40,253 to figure out a way to marginalize 411 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,988 all of those witnesses, 412 00:23:42,055 --> 00:23:44,958 those so‐called hearsay witnesses, 413 00:23:45,025 --> 00:23:48,962 and they were ultimately successful. 414 00:23:50,396 --> 00:23:56,169 Didn't the jury have the right to hear this material? 415 00:23:56,236 --> 00:23:58,438 ♪♪♪♪ 416 00:24:08,582 --> 00:24:10,784 ♪♪ ♪♪ 417 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,922 (indistinct chatter) 418 00:24:18,692 --> 00:24:21,294 THORNHILL: One day, they said, "We're taking a trip 419 00:24:21,361 --> 00:24:22,963 to see the apartment." 420 00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:25,532 ♪♪♪♪ 421 00:24:28,068 --> 00:24:29,069 We pull into Fort Bragg, 422 00:24:29,135 --> 00:24:31,471 and the MPs had everything roadblocked off. 423 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:34,775 And then we pull up to the apartment, 424 00:24:34,841 --> 00:24:36,643 and there are the three major networks 425 00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:39,079 with their cameras out there. 426 00:24:40,847 --> 00:24:44,217 We said, "This is unbelievable. 427 00:24:44,284 --> 00:24:45,652 This is big‐time." 428 00:24:45,719 --> 00:24:47,954 ♪♪♪♪ 429 00:24:54,294 --> 00:24:57,030 (indistinct chatter) 430 00:25:00,534 --> 00:25:03,504 SMITH: So, you walk in. 431 00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:05,138 Over there on the wall, 432 00:25:05,205 --> 00:25:08,975 there's valentines the children had just given their dad. 433 00:25:09,042 --> 00:25:13,413 They were just where they had left 'em. 434 00:25:13,479 --> 00:25:17,250 BLACKBURN: The sofa was still there in the living room. 435 00:25:17,317 --> 00:25:19,953 The coffee table was there. 436 00:25:20,020 --> 00:25:23,123 The dishes in the drain were still there. 437 00:25:27,193 --> 00:25:31,898 THORNHILL: They'd kept this house like this for nine years. 438 00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:35,001 That was kind of a surreal situation. 439 00:25:38,238 --> 00:25:41,642 BLACKBURN: In Kimberley's room was a bookcase, 440 00:25:41,708 --> 00:25:43,510 and on top of the bookcase 441 00:25:43,577 --> 00:25:47,814 was a toy cash register and a Mickey Mouse watch. 442 00:25:47,881 --> 00:25:50,083 And Scotch‐taped to the bookcase 443 00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:51,985 was a drawing that she had made. 444 00:25:52,052 --> 00:25:53,754 Now, it wasn't a very good drawing. 445 00:25:53,820 --> 00:25:55,889 Stick figures. 446 00:25:55,956 --> 00:25:58,525 And she had signed her name, and she had misspelled her name 447 00:25:58,592 --> 00:26:00,794 and wrote "Kimbelrey." 448 00:26:05,766 --> 00:26:08,902 I think it had an impact on pretty much everybody. 449 00:26:10,804 --> 00:26:13,774 SMITH: It was a really 450 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,043 moving experience, to be the first people 451 00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:20,581 to enter that house since this awful thing happened, 452 00:26:20,647 --> 00:26:24,217 and you had a feeling that‐that, 453 00:26:24,284 --> 00:26:30,056 you know, that there would be, uh, dark spirits there. 454 00:26:32,526 --> 00:26:35,161 BLACKBURN: I remember being in the master bedroom 455 00:26:35,228 --> 00:26:38,331 and MacDonald's there, just the two of us. 456 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,134 And even then, nine years later, 457 00:26:41,201 --> 00:26:44,805 you could still see the word "pig" in blood. 458 00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:54,347 It began to haunt me, what had been left behind, 459 00:26:54,414 --> 00:26:57,784 why he didn't take these things. 460 00:26:57,851 --> 00:27:00,521 He took a stereo. 461 00:27:00,587 --> 00:27:03,256 He took a, uh, television set. 462 00:27:03,323 --> 00:27:08,962 He did not take any of the personal items that we saw. 463 00:27:21,575 --> 00:27:23,510 (reporters clamoring) 464 00:27:23,577 --> 00:27:25,211 Good morning. How are you? 465 00:27:25,278 --> 00:27:27,213 Hi, Rebecca. Yes. 466 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,749 REPORTER: How do you feel like it's going? 467 00:27:28,815 --> 00:27:30,984 I‐It's got to have been a‐a painful experience, 468 00:27:31,051 --> 00:27:32,919 ‐this whole trial. ‐Very painful. 469 00:27:32,986 --> 00:27:35,656 ‐How would you describe it? ‐Uh, shattering. 470 00:27:35,722 --> 00:27:40,060 It's been, uh, very draining, emotionally, financially. 471 00:27:40,126 --> 00:27:42,963 Uh, opened my life up to, uh, the entire world again. 472 00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:44,965 SEGAL: Okay, I think we've got to go up in the court. 473 00:27:45,031 --> 00:27:47,133 ‐Okay. ‐Thank you. ‐Have a good day. 474 00:27:49,135 --> 00:27:50,270 (clears throat) 475 00:27:58,378 --> 00:28:02,849 BLACKBURN: The day that MacDonald testified on cross‐examination, 476 00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:06,419 I went up and touched him, touched his arm. 477 00:28:06,486 --> 00:28:08,421 And the reason I touched him was I wanted 478 00:28:08,488 --> 00:28:11,658 to realize that he was just a normal person. 479 00:28:11,725 --> 00:28:15,495 'Cause I didn't want to be intimidated by him. 480 00:28:15,562 --> 00:28:19,165 And there was a little bit of that, even so. 481 00:28:21,467 --> 00:28:24,337 Dr. MacDonald, should the jury find, 482 00:28:24,404 --> 00:28:26,707 from the evidence, that in the master bedroom there were 483 00:28:26,773 --> 00:28:32,245 60 or more sewing threads which match your blue pajama top, 484 00:28:32,312 --> 00:28:37,250 do you have, sir, any explanation for that? 485 00:28:39,085 --> 00:28:43,524 MacDONALD: No, sir, I don't have any explanation for that. 486 00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:45,391 BLACKBURN: We didn't think he was gonna confess. 487 00:28:45,458 --> 00:28:48,995 We simply wanted to wear him down. 488 00:28:49,062 --> 00:28:51,565 We wanted to get him tired. 489 00:28:51,632 --> 00:28:54,968 Dr. MacDonald, if the jury should find, from the evidence, 490 00:28:55,035 --> 00:28:57,103 that there is a fabric impression matching 491 00:28:57,170 --> 00:28:59,906 the right cuff of your blue pajama top on it, 492 00:28:59,973 --> 00:29:03,076 do you have any explanation for that? 493 00:29:04,511 --> 00:29:06,780 If the jury should find? 494 00:29:06,847 --> 00:29:09,115 No. 495 00:29:09,182 --> 00:29:11,151 It was pretty clever cross‐examination 496 00:29:11,217 --> 00:29:13,119 and it's fair cross‐examination. 497 00:29:13,186 --> 00:29:17,023 "If the jury should find that, what do you say to it?" 498 00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:18,825 Can't say anything. 499 00:29:18,892 --> 00:29:23,396 BLACKBURN: Where did you put the pajama top? 500 00:29:25,398 --> 00:29:28,468 MacDONALD: I do not recall. 501 00:29:28,535 --> 00:29:32,405 BLACKBURN: Dr. MacDonald, should the jury find, from the evidence, 502 00:29:32,472 --> 00:29:36,376 that the 48 puncture holes in your blue pajama top 503 00:29:36,442 --> 00:29:41,882 match up with the 21 puncture holes in Colette's chest, 504 00:29:41,948 --> 00:29:44,851 do you have any explanation for that? 505 00:29:47,554 --> 00:29:48,989 MacDONALD: No! 506 00:29:49,055 --> 00:29:51,692 (indistinct whispering) 507 00:29:51,758 --> 00:29:53,059 MASEWICZ: I thought 508 00:29:53,126 --> 00:29:54,394 that he was gonna get up 509 00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:56,963 and‐and poke the prosecutor in the face. 510 00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:59,032 I mean, he got so mad. 511 00:29:59,099 --> 00:30:02,368 I mean, he got beet, beet red in the face. 512 00:30:02,435 --> 00:30:04,370 What kind of person would kill their wife? 513 00:30:04,437 --> 00:30:07,473 An angry, irritated person, you know? 514 00:30:07,541 --> 00:30:10,811 BLACKBURN: Your Honor, that concludes the government's cross‐examination. 515 00:30:10,877 --> 00:30:13,046 (gallery whispering) 516 00:30:23,389 --> 00:30:26,292 His story of what happened in that house that night 517 00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:28,695 completely disintegrated and fell apart. 518 00:30:28,762 --> 00:30:31,197 In other words, the way he says 519 00:30:31,264 --> 00:30:34,067 the murders occurred, the way he was attacked, 520 00:30:34,134 --> 00:30:37,270 just did not stand up under scrutiny. 521 00:30:37,337 --> 00:30:38,772 REPORTER: Mrs. Kassab, what would you like 522 00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:40,240 to see happen to Dr. MacDonald? 523 00:30:40,306 --> 00:30:42,576 Well, I would like to see him imprisoned. 524 00:30:44,678 --> 00:30:47,147 Okay, you know, st‐‐ you better stop before you guys get, 525 00:30:47,213 --> 00:30:48,849 you know, bowled over. 526 00:30:48,915 --> 00:30:51,484 (sighs) 527 00:30:51,552 --> 00:30:54,220 REPORTER 2: How do you think it went today? 528 00:30:54,287 --> 00:30:56,690 ‐Bernie or me? ‐Both of you. ‐You. 529 00:30:56,757 --> 00:30:59,926 I was being cross‐examined today, uh, by a government 530 00:30:59,993 --> 00:31:02,462 who really doesn't have a theory about the case, 531 00:31:02,529 --> 00:31:05,231 and they were asking me to supply them with the theory. 532 00:31:05,298 --> 00:31:07,000 I could not do that on cross‐examination. 533 00:31:07,067 --> 00:31:08,368 I don't think I'm hurt by that. 534 00:31:08,434 --> 00:31:10,370 They presented, uh, the identical case 535 00:31:10,436 --> 00:31:14,941 that was presented in 1970, and, uh, Colonel Rock in 1970 536 00:31:15,008 --> 00:31:16,643 found me not, you know, not guilty, 537 00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:18,545 and this jury's gonna find me not guilty. 538 00:31:18,612 --> 00:31:20,013 I am innocent. 539 00:31:29,122 --> 00:31:33,894 With all my heart, with all the sincerity that I feel, 540 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,563 I tell every one of you 541 00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:40,634 that Jeffrey MacDonald did not kill his family. 542 00:31:51,745 --> 00:31:54,781 THORNHILL: When Bernie came up, I really thought, 543 00:31:54,848 --> 00:31:58,018 if anybody could've gotten him off on this situation, 544 00:31:58,084 --> 00:31:59,786 that man could've done it. 545 00:31:59,853 --> 00:32:03,023 We were still giving him the benefit of the doubt. 546 00:32:14,267 --> 00:32:15,736 KEELER: Bernie did what Bernie does, 547 00:32:15,802 --> 00:32:19,339 you know, he‐he went over all of the pieces of, uh, 548 00:32:19,405 --> 00:32:23,209 uh, evidence, and tried to put the spin on them that they want 549 00:32:23,276 --> 00:32:26,479 to put on them all throughout the cross‐examination. 550 00:32:26,547 --> 00:32:28,882 ‐SEGAL: Just in case... ‐BLACKBURN: And then he goes off, 551 00:32:28,949 --> 00:32:31,585 lecturing about the meaning of reasonable doubt, 552 00:32:31,652 --> 00:32:33,787 and circumstantial evidence and all this stuff. 553 00:32:33,854 --> 00:32:35,288 Well, the judge is gonna do that. 554 00:32:35,355 --> 00:32:37,190 I think that's wasting his time. 555 00:32:37,257 --> 00:32:39,225 SEGAL: Or if you feel, beyond a reasonable doubt 556 00:32:39,292 --> 00:32:41,662 that this was Jeffrey MacDonald's intent... 557 00:32:41,728 --> 00:32:45,298 ...would stab himself in the place he did... 558 00:32:45,365 --> 00:32:47,801 I don't th‐‐ remember him stopping for a‐a sip of water. 559 00:32:47,868 --> 00:32:51,437 He kept going and going and going. It‐it was amazing. 560 00:32:55,742 --> 00:32:58,044 Bernie just got all wound up. 561 00:33:10,290 --> 00:33:12,492 (Segal speaking distantly) 562 00:33:13,727 --> 00:33:15,729 (snoring) 563 00:33:19,165 --> 00:33:22,435 I was to take an hour, 564 00:33:22,503 --> 00:33:26,339 and, uh, my‐my argument was to come last. 565 00:33:26,406 --> 00:33:28,374 ...at the end of October of 1970... 566 00:33:28,441 --> 00:33:30,711 SMITH: And I worked hard on that argument, 567 00:33:30,777 --> 00:33:34,047 and I was ready to give that argument. 568 00:33:34,114 --> 00:33:37,150 BLACKBURN: Judge Dupree didn't stop Bernie. 569 00:33:37,217 --> 00:33:39,052 We didn't take a restroom break. 570 00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:42,623 SMITH: Judge Dupree tapped 571 00:33:42,689 --> 00:33:44,424 his desk with a pencil. 572 00:33:44,490 --> 00:33:46,492 (pencil tapping) 573 00:33:52,332 --> 00:33:54,568 He took all of our time. 574 00:33:56,202 --> 00:33:58,672 And I sat there and realized it was happening, 575 00:33:58,739 --> 00:34:01,575 but he‐he was... he was first chair. 576 00:34:01,642 --> 00:34:04,878 I didn't really feel like it would be appropriate 577 00:34:04,945 --> 00:34:06,747 for me to get up and walk over 578 00:34:06,813 --> 00:34:10,116 and tap him on the shoulder and say, "How about my time?" 579 00:34:19,025 --> 00:34:20,827 BLACKBURN: We take a break. 580 00:34:20,894 --> 00:34:22,162 So I turn to Wade, 581 00:34:22,228 --> 00:34:24,364 and MacDonald's standing there with us. 582 00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:28,802 I said, "Wade, if you will tell the jury that I did this, 583 00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:33,306 I will give you ten minutes of my time." 584 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,210 Jim Blackburn gave me ten minutes, 585 00:34:37,277 --> 00:34:38,979 which was one of the smartest things 586 00:34:39,045 --> 00:34:41,181 he's ever done in his life, 587 00:34:41,247 --> 00:34:44,918 because that was viewed as so, so kind. 588 00:34:44,985 --> 00:34:46,820 Well, it was kind. 589 00:34:48,454 --> 00:34:53,126 What an opportunity it was for me to try 590 00:34:53,193 --> 00:34:55,195 to do something with ten minutes. 591 00:34:55,261 --> 00:34:57,731 (chuckles) 592 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,857 He got the jury quiet for the first time that afternoon. 593 00:35:38,071 --> 00:35:40,273 (pencil tapping) 594 00:36:04,030 --> 00:36:05,666 Jury members are scheduled to begin deliberations today, 595 00:36:05,732 --> 00:36:07,868 and they'll be told by the judge not to decide 596 00:36:07,934 --> 00:36:10,771 if Jeffrey MacDonald has proven his innocence, 597 00:36:10,837 --> 00:36:13,674 but whether the prosecution has proven his guilt. 598 00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:17,477 Bob Jimenez, NBC News, Raleigh, North Carolina. 599 00:36:21,848 --> 00:36:24,217 SMITH: I have a certain thing I do 600 00:36:24,284 --> 00:36:26,486 when a jury's out. 601 00:36:26,553 --> 00:36:29,790 I don't ever just 602 00:36:29,856 --> 00:36:34,060 talk with folks out in the hall while they're waiting. 603 00:36:34,127 --> 00:36:35,962 Uh, I don't... I don't do that. 604 00:36:36,029 --> 00:36:40,967 I don't bring something to work on while they're deliberating. 605 00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:43,937 I don't bring a book to read. 606 00:36:44,004 --> 00:36:46,973 I sit... like this, 607 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,175 and I send them messages. 608 00:36:49,242 --> 00:36:52,278 I think... hard. 609 00:36:52,345 --> 00:36:55,281 Who knows. It may work. 610 00:36:57,884 --> 00:37:00,386 KEELER: I don't think we left the hall 611 00:37:00,453 --> 00:37:01,922 the whole time. It wasn't that long. 612 00:37:01,988 --> 00:37:03,223 I think it was about‐‐ what‐‐ 613 00:37:03,289 --> 00:37:04,658 six hours or something like that, 614 00:37:04,725 --> 00:37:07,027 which is, after a six‐week trial, 615 00:37:07,093 --> 00:37:10,230 you know, that's not a lot. 616 00:37:10,296 --> 00:37:12,498 We took our... 617 00:37:13,299 --> 00:37:15,501 (muffled whimper) 618 00:37:20,106 --> 00:37:22,042 Sorry. It, uh... 619 00:37:22,108 --> 00:37:24,778 Aah! We took our final vote, 620 00:37:24,845 --> 00:37:26,446 and it was 12‐0. 621 00:37:26,513 --> 00:37:29,082 And, uh, that place was... 622 00:37:29,149 --> 00:37:30,851 It was unbelievable. 623 00:37:30,917 --> 00:37:33,587 The atmosphere in there was‐was just... 624 00:37:33,654 --> 00:37:35,656 Uh, you could cut it with a knife. 625 00:37:35,722 --> 00:37:38,491 Within a split second, women were crying. 626 00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:40,627 And it was like, "Good. This is real." 627 00:37:40,694 --> 00:37:43,029 This was... this was real. 628 00:37:43,096 --> 00:37:44,798 (sniffles) 629 00:37:44,865 --> 00:37:48,468 FREDDY: The only way I can describe MacDonald 630 00:37:48,535 --> 00:37:50,504 is that he is a true psychopath. 631 00:37:50,571 --> 00:37:53,139 He killed Colette and the children, 632 00:37:53,206 --> 00:37:54,407 and he should pay for it. 633 00:37:54,474 --> 00:37:55,542 Are you supposed to sit back 634 00:37:55,609 --> 00:37:58,011 and do nothing about it? 635 00:37:58,078 --> 00:38:01,948 He's lucky I haven't gone out and killed him. 636 00:38:08,288 --> 00:38:10,524 MALLEY: When we went back for the verdict, 637 00:38:10,591 --> 00:38:12,859 Jeff was wearing a bulletproof vest, 638 00:38:12,926 --> 00:38:16,630 which was Bernie's idea, on the theory 639 00:38:16,697 --> 00:38:18,665 that Freddy was... had said, 640 00:38:18,732 --> 00:38:20,133 "You know, I'm gonna kill him." (mumbles) 641 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,335 Freddy had said all sorts of things about that. 642 00:38:31,044 --> 00:38:33,046 (door squeaks open) 643 00:38:36,983 --> 00:38:39,385 BLACKBURN: Nobody came through the door. 644 00:38:41,287 --> 00:38:43,657 It seemed like an hour. 645 00:38:48,061 --> 00:38:49,362 The first juror 646 00:38:49,429 --> 00:38:52,332 almost stumbles into the courtroom, 647 00:38:52,398 --> 00:38:54,535 weeping. 648 00:38:54,601 --> 00:38:57,871 The second juror still isn't in, 649 00:38:57,938 --> 00:38:59,906 and comes in behind her, 650 00:38:59,973 --> 00:39:02,543 crying, also. 651 00:39:05,011 --> 00:39:07,447 He says, "Have you reached a verdict?" "We have." 652 00:39:07,514 --> 00:39:11,785 And he hands it up to the clerk... 653 00:39:11,852 --> 00:39:14,755 who hands the verdict to Judge Dupree. 654 00:39:16,957 --> 00:39:19,560 Judge Dupree opens it, 655 00:39:19,626 --> 00:39:22,428 and I recall that he looked at me. 656 00:39:23,496 --> 00:39:26,032 He didn't nod. He just looked at me. 657 00:39:26,099 --> 00:39:29,435 CLERK: Will the jurors please stand? 658 00:39:31,505 --> 00:39:34,575 How do you find as to count one? 659 00:39:34,641 --> 00:39:36,677 Is the defendant, Jeffrey R. MacDonald, 660 00:39:36,743 --> 00:39:41,381 guilty or not guilty as to murder in the first degree? 661 00:39:44,250 --> 00:39:46,753 JURORS: Not guilty. 662 00:39:46,820 --> 00:39:49,790 Count one, against Colette MacDonald, 663 00:39:49,856 --> 00:39:52,125 murder in the first degree‐‐ how do you find? 664 00:39:52,192 --> 00:39:53,627 Not guilty. 665 00:39:53,694 --> 00:39:55,228 And then, how do you find with the respect 666 00:39:55,295 --> 00:39:58,031 to guilty, murder in the second degree? 667 00:39:58,098 --> 00:40:00,901 JURORS: Guilty. 668 00:40:00,967 --> 00:40:03,670 BLACKBURN: His mother was in the courtroom. 669 00:40:03,737 --> 00:40:05,972 In my life, I have never heard anybody scream 670 00:40:06,039 --> 00:40:08,975 the way she screamed. It was a 671 00:40:09,042 --> 00:40:13,179 blood‐curdling scream as though someone was going to die. 672 00:40:13,246 --> 00:40:15,682 They had to take her out of the courtroom. 673 00:40:15,749 --> 00:40:18,118 She didn't hear the whole thing. 674 00:40:18,184 --> 00:40:21,888 CLERK: How do you find as to count two? 675 00:40:21,955 --> 00:40:24,758 JURORS: Guilty in the second. 676 00:40:27,227 --> 00:40:29,696 CLERK: How do you find as to count three? 677 00:40:29,763 --> 00:40:34,034 JURORS: Guilty in the first. 678 00:40:42,242 --> 00:40:43,710 (sniffles) 679 00:40:43,777 --> 00:40:45,746 You know, it's‐it's... 680 00:40:45,812 --> 00:40:48,515 We felt badly for him, 681 00:40:48,582 --> 00:40:51,685 but we didn't feel badly for what we came up with 682 00:40:51,752 --> 00:40:54,020 and what our‐our final verdict was. 683 00:40:54,087 --> 00:40:57,524 We believed that was the right, uh... right decision. 684 00:41:01,995 --> 00:41:03,930 MALLEY: As soon as the verdict came back, 685 00:41:03,997 --> 00:41:05,331 and the clerk read the verdict, 686 00:41:05,398 --> 00:41:08,134 the judge had the probation report and started sentencing. 687 00:41:08,201 --> 00:41:10,671 He sentenced him right away. 688 00:41:12,939 --> 00:41:15,542 BLACKBURN: Judge Dupree gave him 689 00:41:15,609 --> 00:41:19,079 three life sentences, consecutive. 690 00:41:19,145 --> 00:41:21,748 Which is the harshest sentence he could give him. 691 00:41:30,791 --> 00:41:33,093 No. 692 00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:36,630 I think, uh, the judge was biased. 693 00:41:36,697 --> 00:41:38,131 He was my friend. 694 00:41:38,198 --> 00:41:39,633 I'm sorry. 695 00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:43,937 And... I think that 696 00:41:44,004 --> 00:41:47,774 I didn't get to make my argument. 697 00:41:49,776 --> 00:41:53,313 And I think that is quite remarkable. 698 00:41:53,379 --> 00:41:58,484 Suppose, having been at the top of my game, 699 00:41:58,552 --> 00:42:01,254 the best I would ever be, 700 00:42:01,321 --> 00:42:04,224 believing... 701 00:42:04,290 --> 00:42:06,326 in myself, 702 00:42:06,392 --> 00:42:07,928 and my cause... 703 00:42:07,994 --> 00:42:12,599 give me a whole hour with that jury. 704 00:42:14,467 --> 00:42:16,903 Let me say what has worked for me 705 00:42:16,970 --> 00:42:20,106 in case after case after case to this point. 706 00:42:20,173 --> 00:42:24,745 And realize that I only need to persuade one juror. 707 00:42:24,811 --> 00:42:26,747 That's all. 708 00:42:26,813 --> 00:42:28,749 Just one juror. 709 00:42:28,815 --> 00:42:31,585 And realizing I didn't get to do it. 710 00:42:33,186 --> 00:42:34,721 What would have happened? 711 00:42:34,788 --> 00:42:37,758 No, I don't think it was a fair trial. 712 00:42:38,659 --> 00:42:42,529 (indistinct crowd murmuring) 713 00:42:42,596 --> 00:42:43,897 BLACKBURN: There's never been any vindictiveness 714 00:42:43,964 --> 00:42:45,165 on the part of the prosecution. 715 00:42:45,231 --> 00:42:47,333 It's been a, a pursuit of truth, 716 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,370 it's been a pursuit of justice; that's what we told the jury, 717 00:42:50,436 --> 00:42:53,173 that's what I tell you today, and that's the truth. 718 00:42:58,111 --> 00:43:00,446 SEGAL: How could the jury have done this? 719 00:43:00,514 --> 00:43:01,948 Tomorrow morning, at 9:00, 720 00:43:02,015 --> 00:43:03,684 Wade Smith and I will file 721 00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:06,452 a notice of appeal 722 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,421 that will take this case on its way 723 00:43:08,488 --> 00:43:10,657 to the U. S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. 724 00:43:20,066 --> 00:43:23,336 MILDRED: I feel relieved that it's all over. 725 00:43:23,403 --> 00:43:26,406 It's been a very difficult thing for me, being here, 726 00:43:26,472 --> 00:43:27,874 reliving the whole thing. 727 00:43:27,941 --> 00:43:30,677 But I feel that now that it's over, 728 00:43:30,744 --> 00:43:33,847 perhaps we can s‐‐ wipe everything clean, 729 00:43:33,914 --> 00:43:35,882 try to live again. 730 00:43:41,888 --> 00:43:45,826 (indistinct crowd murmuring) 731 00:43:53,867 --> 00:43:56,102 (indistinct conversation) 732 00:43:59,072 --> 00:44:01,642 REPORTER: Helena, the MacDonald murders 733 00:44:01,708 --> 00:44:05,311 occurred in the early morning hours of February 18, 1970. 734 00:44:05,378 --> 00:44:08,849 Since that time, a number of people have said 735 00:44:08,915 --> 00:44:11,317 that you talked to them and advised 736 00:44:11,384 --> 00:44:13,687 that you were definitely there. 737 00:44:13,754 --> 00:44:17,090 Can you tell us why you've changed your mind 738 00:44:17,157 --> 00:44:20,060 through these last 12 years so many times? 739 00:44:20,126 --> 00:44:22,128 ♪♪ ♪♪ 740 00:44:34,407 --> 00:44:38,812 Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org 58311

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