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(ringing)
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(phone ringing)
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POSEY: I said, "Well,were you there? Did you do it?"
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You know.
And she said, "I was there,
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you know, but I didn't
do nothin'."
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BEASLEY: She said, "Then I wentfrom one room to the next...
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"and I saw the children
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in each bedroom, and
they appeared to be dead."
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GADDIS: We caught her forpossession of drugs.
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On the way down to booking,she said that
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she was involved in a murder
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in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
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BRISENTINE: What we have hereis a gal who screwed up.
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You could never
call her a liar.
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But you can't call her
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a truth‐teller, either.
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♪♪ ♪♪
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MORRIS:Helena Stoeckleyis what makes this story
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so deeply bizarre.
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She didn't confess
to one person...
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or two people...
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or three people or four people.
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She confessed...
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many, many, many, many times
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over a decade.
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♪♪ ♪♪
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The wife and two youngdaughters of an Army doctor
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were found dead in their homein Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
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SAM DONALDSON:You may remember the crimeback in 1970.
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One of America's mostsensational murder cases.
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One of the most bizarremurder cases.
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DAN RATHER:The most complicatedmurder case
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‐in history.‐MacDonald says the murderers
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were three menand a woman shouting,
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"Acid is great.Kill all the pigs."
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It's a baffling story the moreyou begin to look into it.
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Jeffrey MacDonald's life becamethe subject of a book.
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BARBARA WALTERS:A popular miniseries.
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A television movie
called Fatal Vision.
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REPORTER:The best‐sellerportrayed MacDonald
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as a cold‐blooded killer.
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REPORTER 2:Today, MacDonald was sentenced
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to three life terms in prison.
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MAN: Something really,really bad happened here.
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It was a miscarriageof justice.
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I cannot overcome Fatal Vision.
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MORRIS:What happens when a narrative
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takes the place of reality?
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It's almost as if nothingreally happened in history
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unless it has beenrecorded in a movie
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or in a television series.
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WOMAN:A new book by acclaimedauthor and filmmaker
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Errol Morrissays that the case
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may be more complicatedthan previously thought.
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MacDONALD:I did not hurt my wifeor my children.
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HELENA:That evening I was wearing
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a blonde wig and a floppy hat.
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‐MAN: An innocent manis in jail today.‐MILDRED: The man is guilty
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‐as can be.‐I am innocent.
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He's lucky I haven'tgone out and killed him.
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MacDONALD:I am not that monster.
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NEWSMAN:In Raleigh, North Carolina,
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a former Army doctor ison trial
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for the murder of his familyback in 1970.
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♪♪ ♪♪
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NEWSWOMAN:This is the second time
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Dr. MacDonald has been chargedwith the murders.
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DAN RATHER:A federal prosecutoronce called it
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the most complicatedmurder case in history.
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I'm not gonna be found guilty.
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I didn't see any evidence
that pointed to that,
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and I know what happened
that night, and I'm not guilty.
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How are you today?
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FREDDY:We've gone through
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every legal means possible
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to bring this man
to where we are today,
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and that is in court,
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charged with three counts
of premeditated murder.
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KEELER: The start of this trialthat I've been building up to
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over many years,I'm tossing and turning
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and having nightmares
about being late.
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If you're an OCD person,
you don't want to be late.
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SEGAL: We have already hada full and fair hearing
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in the military in 1970.
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I mean, you can't ask
for more than what we did then.
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And seems to me that one trial,
one proceeding is enough,
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even though I'm confident
we can win again.
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♪♪ ♪♪
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MASEWICZ:When he got indicted,
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I was very excited.
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In my mind,it ranks right up there
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with Jack the Ripperand Sharon Tate,
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Ted Bundy.
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I‐I mean, it's right up there.
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I made an agreementwith my husband.
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"I'm going to the trial."
"Okay."
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♪♪ ♪♪
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KEELER:"At exactly 9:45 a. m.,
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"MacDonald walked through thewooden doors into the modern,
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"air‐conditionedcourtroom number one
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that is to be his arena forthe next six to eight weeks."
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(low, indistinct chatter)
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BAILIFF:All rise.
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♪♪ ♪♪
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May it please the court,
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ladies and gentlemenof the jury,
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my name is Wade Smith.
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SMITH: I met Berniea few weeks before the trial.
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He was very different
from North Carolina lawyers.
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That was okay with me.
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This is a case about a family.
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It is a story of happy people.
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Yes.
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Bernie and I had discussed it.
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There was a certain way
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that North Carolina lawyers
would do this.
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And I felt confidentI knew how to do it.
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It's a story of good people:
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a mother, a fatherand two children,
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five and two.
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This was a good man.
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A loving husband.
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A father who loved his children.
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A man who would never harmhis children.
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We'll show you how they
had eagerly anticipated
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the arrival of a new little one.
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And then we will show youhow the whole thing,
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in a matter of minutes, ended.
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Ashes.
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Ashes.
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KEELER: "In a small locked cellon the seventh floor
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"of the Federal Building here,
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"some of the mostimportant witnesses in the case
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"of The United Statesv. Jeffrey R. MacDonald
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"sit in cardboard boxes,plastic bags and vials waiting.
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"Those mute witnesses‐‐a bloody, blue pajama top
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"filled with ice pick holes,a bloody sheet,
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"pieces of floor coveredwith bloodstains‐‐
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"will become
the center of attention
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"as the United States
seeks to prove
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"that Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald
killed his wife
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and two children
almost a decade ago."
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♪♪ ♪♪
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I wore that pajama top.
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I went to the jail cell
where we kept it.
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And tried it on.
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I lay down on the, uh, sheet.
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I wanted to feel themand touch them,
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so that when I saw themat the trial
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they would be friends of mine.
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I had tried one casein my life to a jury,
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which was
a misdemeanor conviction,
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of which the guy got
unsupervised probation
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and $100 fine.
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Ladies and gentlemen,
my name is Jim Blackburn.
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I think we're going to make iteasy for you to understand
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that the circumstantialphysical evidence in this case
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points swiftly and unerringly
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to the fact that one person
killed his family,
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and that that person is
the defendant.
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Mildred Kassab used to sayshe wanted the title
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of the bookabout the case to be
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The Blue Pajama Top,
'cause that was
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this critical piece of evidence.
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Your Honor, I would markfor identification
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government exhibit 306.
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MacDonald claimedthat this pajama top
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was pulled over his head,around his wrists,
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and it was stabbed through itwhen MacDonald was fighting
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the intrudersin the living room.
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There's a problem
with that argument
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that's big enough
to drive a truck through.
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We decided we were going to doa courtroom demonstration.
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I would ask you if this isa reasonable facsimile
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of the pajama top you usedin any of your experiments.
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Reasonable, yes.
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This same scene is later shown
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during the TV series
Fatal Vision,
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and it was perfect.
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Brian puts itaround his wrists,
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and says to the jury,
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(echoing character on TV):"Putting great trustin Mr. Blackburn."
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Gonna ask himto get the ice pick
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and come over and stab him.
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Wade and Bernie are giggling,
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'cause they think
this is stupid.
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(grunting)
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Two things happen immediately.
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Ow!
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I accidentally stab Brianin the wrist.
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The significance of that is,
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MacDonald had no injurieson his wrists.
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The other thing is,
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the holes shredded.
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I would ask you to examinethat pajama top
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and tell us what you see.
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I see a number of tears,
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and they do appear to be,in fact, tears.
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There were 48 holesin MacDonald's blue pajama top,
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and they were perfectly round.
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The other side quit giggling.
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During the courseof this trial,
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we are going to show you,ladies and gentlemen,
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that those holesin that pajama top
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got in that pajama topwhen it was in a stationary,
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not a moving, position.
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The way you wina complicated murder trial
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is you take
a complicated set of facts
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and try to make them simple.
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In the living room,
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where he saidthis struggle happened
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and that his pajama topwas torn,
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the only thing that was foundin the shag carpet
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was a piece of Christmas tinsel.
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There were no threads.
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I don't thinkthere was a single one
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that matched that pajama top.
218
00:11:53,313 --> 00:11:55,749
But there were dozensof those threads
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found in the master bedroom.
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And, indeed,some of the threads
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00:12:01,221 --> 00:12:04,925
in the master bedroomare found under Colette's body.
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How in the world
does that happen?
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We know, from the evidence,ladies and gentlemen,
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that she fought.
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She fought mighty hardbefore she died.
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KIMBERLEY:
Daddy! Daddy!
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BLACKBURN:You know those words,"Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy."
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I believe those wordswere said.
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But I think you can inferfrom the evidence
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that were said as Kimberleycame to the master bedroom
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to find out what was going onfrom her father and mother.
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Threads from his pajama top arefound underneath the bedding
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in Kimberley's room.
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We suggest that they came fromthe blue pajama top itself,
235
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as Kimberley MacDonaldwas placed in that bed.
236
00:13:06,820 --> 00:13:08,254
Colette's not dead.
237
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By some miracle,she is not dead.
238
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Colette went to protect or seewhat was happening to Kristen.
239
00:13:21,868 --> 00:13:23,604
After Colettewent to Kristen's room,
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she was banged again with theclub and fell over and bled.
241
00:13:28,642 --> 00:13:32,378
We know that at least onethread matching the pajama top
242
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and the splinter matching theclub were found in that room.
243
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:45,526
MacDonald took his wife Coletteand laid her on the bedsheet.
244
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There are massive amountsof blood on that sheet.
245
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There's a footprintleaving that room.
246
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How is that footprint made?
247
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You can infer,from the evidence,
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that he made those footprintsas he exited that room.
249
00:14:03,243 --> 00:14:06,547
MacDonald said that he neverwent near the sheet,
250
00:14:06,613 --> 00:14:07,881
never touched it.
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00:14:07,948 --> 00:14:09,415
"Never touched it."
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He had his pipingon his pajamas,
253
00:14:13,319 --> 00:14:16,289
is found on that sheet,in blood.
254
00:14:20,727 --> 00:14:22,796
MacDonald dumps her, really,on the floor
255
00:14:22,863 --> 00:14:25,866
in the master bedroom, over
the threads that are there.
256
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That's why she's on topof the threads.
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Things had simplygone beyond repair.
258
00:14:31,772 --> 00:14:34,741
You can't go back and makethe family happy again,
259
00:14:34,808 --> 00:14:37,477
drink liquor
and watch Johnny Carson.
260
00:14:37,544 --> 00:14:40,480
It has gone too far.
261
00:14:40,547 --> 00:14:44,317
Then all bets are off
and everything changes.
262
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:49,590
Kristen is killed,stabbed over 30 times.
263
00:14:51,692 --> 00:14:54,828
And then, with Colette,he takes his pajama top off
264
00:14:54,895 --> 00:14:57,097
and puts it on her chest
265
00:14:57,163 --> 00:15:01,568
to contaminatethat piece of evidence,
266
00:15:01,635 --> 00:15:05,639
as an explanation of whyher blood's on that pajama top.
267
00:15:05,706 --> 00:15:08,308
And then stabs her.
268
00:15:08,374 --> 00:15:12,445
Stabs her with the ice pickthrough the pajama top.
269
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,718
The pajama top wasalready on Colette's chest.
270
00:15:17,784 --> 00:15:19,753
I think you can find,from the evidence,
271
00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:22,488
that the defendant madethat terrible mistake
272
00:15:22,556 --> 00:15:25,225
of stabbing Colettewith the ice pick
273
00:15:25,291 --> 00:15:27,528
through that blue pajama top.
274
00:15:27,594 --> 00:15:31,097
And that is howthose holes got there.
275
00:15:35,201 --> 00:15:37,370
KIMBERLEY:
Daddy! Daddy!
276
00:15:37,437 --> 00:15:40,741
BLACKBURN:The sad thing about this is,
277
00:15:40,807 --> 00:15:43,276
MacDonald could've stopped.
278
00:15:47,981 --> 00:15:49,950
He didn't haveto hit Kimberley.
279
00:15:50,016 --> 00:15:52,853
He didn't have to stab them.
280
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,522
He could've let Kristen live.
281
00:15:55,589 --> 00:15:59,159
He absolutely could've letKristen live.
282
00:16:01,461 --> 00:16:04,865
Now, it's true he would've losthis medical license,
283
00:16:04,931 --> 00:16:07,601
it's true he'd have beendishonorably discharged
284
00:16:07,668 --> 00:16:10,070
from the Army, it's true he'dhave been criminally prosecuted
285
00:16:10,136 --> 00:16:11,738
and gone to prison in disgrace.
286
00:16:11,805 --> 00:16:14,474
But Kristen would've lived.
287
00:16:14,541 --> 00:16:18,178
That's a trade‐off
that he chose not to make.
288
00:16:36,730 --> 00:16:38,932
HOST: Does it seem strange
to you that after a long period,
289
00:16:38,999 --> 00:16:43,036
that no one else has been, uh,
either pursued or confessed,
290
00:16:43,103 --> 00:16:46,039
uh, to this particular crime?
291
00:16:46,106 --> 00:16:47,508
It's not really quite accurate
292
00:16:47,574 --> 00:16:49,510
to say that no one
has confessed.
293
00:16:55,181 --> 00:16:56,783
KEELER:"For nine years,
294
00:16:56,850 --> 00:16:58,785
"Helena Stoeckley has beenan illusive specter
295
00:16:58,852 --> 00:17:01,187
"haunting the Jeffrey MacDonaldmurder case.
296
00:17:01,254 --> 00:17:02,923
"MacDonald's counselBernard L. Segal said,
297
00:17:02,989 --> 00:17:06,292
'There are a whole series
of things that she will tell
298
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,494
that are central to this case.'"
299
00:17:13,033 --> 00:17:15,101
MALLEY:Bernie wanted to subpoena heras a material witness.
300
00:17:15,168 --> 00:17:18,138
So they sent the FBI
out to get her.
301
00:17:22,242 --> 00:17:24,811
There is an answer to this,
302
00:17:24,878 --> 00:17:28,582
and the answer has nothingto do with a pajama top.
303
00:17:32,385 --> 00:17:36,523
This was the lady in the floppy
hat and the blonde wig.
304
00:17:37,724 --> 00:17:41,995
I had wanted to meet herfor nine years.
305
00:17:42,062 --> 00:17:46,032
MALLEY:At some point, it became clearthat the game here wasn't
306
00:17:46,099 --> 00:17:49,202
to prove that Jeff was not
the kind of guy who did it,
307
00:17:49,269 --> 00:17:51,204
but to prove Helena did it.
308
00:17:51,271 --> 00:17:52,673
(indistinct chatter)
309
00:17:54,307 --> 00:17:57,110
MASEWICZ:I had heard so muchabout Helena Stoeckley.
310
00:17:57,177 --> 00:18:00,346
Who is this woman?
311
00:18:00,413 --> 00:18:02,082
Well, here she come.
312
00:18:02,148 --> 00:18:04,350
(hushed chatter)
313
00:18:06,987 --> 00:18:09,355
The air went out of the room.
314
00:18:09,422 --> 00:18:12,759
Everybody turned to see.
315
00:18:14,728 --> 00:18:17,463
KEELER:She was sort of weirdand twitchy‐looking,
316
00:18:17,531 --> 00:18:21,367
she had this very dark,thick hair, and, you know,
317
00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:22,569
she had a face like somebody
318
00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:24,838
who's put a lot of miles
on her face.
319
00:18:33,246 --> 00:18:36,316
SEGAL: Ms. Stoeckley,
I want to ask you about
320
00:18:36,382 --> 00:18:37,684
the early morning hours
321
00:18:37,751 --> 00:18:41,421
of February 17 of 1970,all right?
322
00:18:41,487 --> 00:18:43,590
HELENA:Yes, sir.
323
00:18:43,657 --> 00:18:45,759
SMITH:This could be the end.
324
00:18:45,826 --> 00:18:47,761
This could be it.
325
00:18:47,828 --> 00:18:49,129
She could tell the truth.
326
00:18:49,195 --> 00:18:51,998
This case could be over.
327
00:18:52,065 --> 00:18:54,701
This man could be free.
328
00:18:54,768 --> 00:18:57,838
SEGAL:
Do you have
a specific recollection
329
00:18:57,904 --> 00:19:00,774
of where you werebetween midnight,
330
00:19:00,841 --> 00:19:06,647
or shortly after midnight,and 4:35 in the morning?
331
00:19:08,314 --> 00:19:10,517
HELENA:No, sir.
332
00:19:13,353 --> 00:19:17,490
SEGAL:
Do you have
any reason to believe
333
00:19:17,558 --> 00:19:20,694
that you have seen
that scene before?
334
00:19:30,671 --> 00:19:32,539
No, sir.
335
00:19:32,606 --> 00:19:35,776
She absolutely, absolutely
shut it down.
336
00:19:35,842 --> 00:19:38,645
SEGAL:I represent to the courtthat during interviews with me
337
00:19:38,712 --> 00:19:41,782
and with other persons present,she stated she had
338
00:19:41,848 --> 00:19:46,419
a recollection of standingover a body, holding a candle.
339
00:19:49,823 --> 00:19:52,425
Well, it was confounding
for all of us, because...
340
00:19:52,492 --> 00:19:54,761
this was a woman that, maybe,
341
00:19:54,828 --> 00:19:58,264
could put an endto this whole thing.
342
00:20:01,968 --> 00:20:04,938
It was a very, very hard day.
343
00:20:05,005 --> 00:20:06,439
(gavel banging, hushed chatter)
344
00:20:06,507 --> 00:20:09,275
DUPREE:
Call your next witness.
345
00:20:13,379 --> 00:20:15,481
NEWS ANCHOR:While Helena Stoeckleytold everyone
346
00:20:15,549 --> 00:20:17,117
MacDonald was
telling the truth,
347
00:20:17,183 --> 00:20:19,352
on the witness stand,her mind went blank.
348
00:20:19,419 --> 00:20:22,823
A judge later said Stoeckley'smemory resembled a light bulb
349
00:20:22,889 --> 00:20:25,726
not screwed tight,blinking on and off.
350
00:20:27,594 --> 00:20:30,496
BEASLEY: I asked her if she wasinvolved with this, uh,
351
00:20:30,564 --> 00:20:32,098
done this at Fort Bragg.
352
00:20:32,165 --> 00:20:35,468
She told me that, uh, in her
mind, it seemed that she saw
353
00:20:35,536 --> 00:20:37,838
this thing happen,
but she wasn't sure.
354
00:20:37,904 --> 00:20:39,506
REPORTER:
Is that what she's saying now?
355
00:20:39,573 --> 00:20:41,875
Uh, she says
she don't remember now.
356
00:20:41,942 --> 00:20:43,844
(gallery murmuring)
357
00:20:46,246 --> 00:20:47,614
SMITH:We pushed forward
358
00:20:47,681 --> 00:20:49,883
because we had interviewedthese people
359
00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:52,318
who had talked with her
over all the years.
360
00:20:55,656 --> 00:20:57,758
MORRIS:You were brought up to Raleigh.
361
00:20:57,824 --> 00:21:00,060
‐You were subpoenaed.‐UNDERHILL: Right.
362
00:21:00,126 --> 00:21:01,862
(gallery murmuring)
363
00:21:01,928 --> 00:21:05,331
SMITH:She had revealed to people that
364
00:21:05,398 --> 00:21:07,668
they had murdered his family.
365
00:21:14,007 --> 00:21:16,109
BRISENTINE:I was supposed to be testifying
366
00:21:16,176 --> 00:21:18,144
at the MacDonald trial
367
00:21:18,211 --> 00:21:19,713
taking place in Raleigh.
368
00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:21,782
When she said,
369
00:21:21,848 --> 00:21:25,451
‐No.
‐"No, I wasn't there," she's
370
00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:27,420
not telling the truth.
371
00:21:27,487 --> 00:21:30,156
POSEY: And I said,"Well, were you there?
372
00:21:30,223 --> 00:21:32,759
Did you do it?" You know,
and she said, "I was there.
373
00:21:32,826 --> 00:21:34,895
You know,but I didn't do nothing."
374
00:21:37,163 --> 00:21:39,566
(siren sounding)
375
00:21:39,633 --> 00:21:40,967
GADDIS:Well, I‐I got notice
376
00:21:41,034 --> 00:21:42,435
that there was a trialgoing on,
377
00:21:42,503 --> 00:21:44,270
and that, uh, I was subpoenaed.
378
00:21:44,337 --> 00:21:48,642
And to me, Helena was justas guilty as sin.
379
00:21:55,649 --> 00:21:58,151
I have never known Helena
to lie to me.
380
00:21:58,218 --> 00:22:00,554
(distant barking)
381
00:22:00,621 --> 00:22:03,790
She had always been truthful.
382
00:22:06,927 --> 00:22:08,461
Judge Dupree could permit
the jury
383
00:22:08,529 --> 00:22:11,097
to hear the things
that she had said
384
00:22:11,164 --> 00:22:16,069
to all these people.That's why they were there, and
385
00:22:16,136 --> 00:22:17,303
Judge Dupree didn't permit that.
386
00:22:17,370 --> 00:22:19,873
(soft chatter)
387
00:22:23,476 --> 00:22:25,045
BLACKBURN:There are a lot of judges
388
00:22:25,111 --> 00:22:27,480
who would've letthat evidence in.
389
00:22:29,182 --> 00:22:30,517
That was a surprise to me.
390
00:22:30,584 --> 00:22:32,719
(distorted conversation)
391
00:22:32,786 --> 00:22:36,590
Bernie gets into a tiradein front of him.
392
00:22:36,657 --> 00:22:38,324
How unfair he's being to him
and all this stuff.
393
00:22:38,391 --> 00:22:41,027
And Dupree just listens to him,
394
00:22:41,094 --> 00:22:42,028
lets him
395
00:22:42,095 --> 00:22:43,029
go on forever.
396
00:22:43,096 --> 00:22:44,998
Wade's just in despair.
397
00:22:45,065 --> 00:22:46,066
(distorted conversation)
398
00:22:46,132 --> 00:22:49,570
SMITH:We would never get in a war
399
00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:50,837
with the judge.
400
00:22:50,904 --> 00:22:52,038
(distorted):
I will not vary the rule...
401
00:22:52,105 --> 00:22:55,141
SMITH:That's not the way it was
402
00:22:55,208 --> 00:22:58,845
normally done in North Carolina.
403
00:23:06,887 --> 00:23:09,122
♪♪ ♪♪
404
00:23:23,169 --> 00:23:26,206
What's wrong with this picture?
405
00:23:26,272 --> 00:23:27,808
You have a witness.
406
00:23:27,874 --> 00:23:31,878
You know that she's beenconfessing to a lot of people,
407
00:23:31,945 --> 00:23:33,580
repeatedly.
408
00:23:33,647 --> 00:23:34,915
The judge
409
00:23:34,981 --> 00:23:37,518
and the prosecutors
worked hand in hand
410
00:23:37,584 --> 00:23:40,253
to figure out a way
to marginalize
411
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,988
all of those witnesses,
412
00:23:42,055 --> 00:23:44,958
those so‐calledhearsay witnesses,
413
00:23:45,025 --> 00:23:48,962
and they wereultimately successful.
414
00:23:50,396 --> 00:23:56,169
Didn't the jury have the right
to hear this material?
415
00:23:56,236 --> 00:23:58,438
♪♪♪♪
416
00:24:08,582 --> 00:24:10,784
♪♪ ♪♪
417
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,922
(indistinct chatter)
418
00:24:18,692 --> 00:24:21,294
THORNHILL:One day, they said,"We're taking a trip
419
00:24:21,361 --> 00:24:22,963
to see the apartment."
420
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:25,532
♪♪♪♪
421
00:24:28,068 --> 00:24:29,069
We pull into Fort Bragg,
422
00:24:29,135 --> 00:24:31,471
and the MPs had everything
roadblocked off.
423
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:34,775
And then we pull upto the apartment,
424
00:24:34,841 --> 00:24:36,643
and there arethe three major networks
425
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:39,079
with their cameras out there.
426
00:24:40,847 --> 00:24:44,217
We said,"This is unbelievable.
427
00:24:44,284 --> 00:24:45,652
This is big‐time."
428
00:24:45,719 --> 00:24:47,954
♪♪♪♪
429
00:24:54,294 --> 00:24:57,030
(indistinct chatter)
430
00:25:00,534 --> 00:25:03,504
SMITH:So, you walk in.
431
00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:05,138
Over there on the wall,
432
00:25:05,205 --> 00:25:08,975
there's valentines the children
had just given their dad.
433
00:25:09,042 --> 00:25:13,413
They werejust where they had left 'em.
434
00:25:13,479 --> 00:25:17,250
BLACKBURN:The sofa was still therein the living room.
435
00:25:17,317 --> 00:25:19,953
The coffee table was there.
436
00:25:20,020 --> 00:25:23,123
The dishes in the drain
were still there.
437
00:25:27,193 --> 00:25:31,898
THORNHILL:They'd kept this houselike this for nine years.
438
00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:35,001
That was
kind of a surreal situation.
439
00:25:38,238 --> 00:25:41,642
BLACKBURN:In Kimberley's roomwas a bookcase,
440
00:25:41,708 --> 00:25:43,510
and on top of the bookcase
441
00:25:43,577 --> 00:25:47,814
was a toy cash registerand a Mickey Mouse watch.
442
00:25:47,881 --> 00:25:50,083
And Scotch‐tapedto the bookcase
443
00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:51,985
was a drawingthat she had made.
444
00:25:52,052 --> 00:25:53,754
Now, it wasn'ta very good drawing.
445
00:25:53,820 --> 00:25:55,889
Stick figures.
446
00:25:55,956 --> 00:25:58,525
And she had signed her name,
and she had misspelled her name
447
00:25:58,592 --> 00:26:00,794
and wrote "Kimbelrey."
448
00:26:05,766 --> 00:26:08,902
I think it had an impact
on pretty much everybody.
449
00:26:10,804 --> 00:26:13,774
SMITH:It was a really
450
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,043
moving experience,
to be the first people
451
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:20,581
to enter that house
since this awful thing happened,
452
00:26:20,647 --> 00:26:24,217
and you had a feeling that‐that,
453
00:26:24,284 --> 00:26:30,056
you know, that there would be,
uh, dark spirits there.
454
00:26:32,526 --> 00:26:35,161
BLACKBURN:I remember beingin the master bedroom
455
00:26:35,228 --> 00:26:38,331
and MacDonald's there,just the two of us.
456
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,134
And even then,nine years later,
457
00:26:41,201 --> 00:26:44,805
you could still see
the word "pig" in blood.
458
00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:54,347
It began to haunt me,what had been left behind,
459
00:26:54,414 --> 00:26:57,784
why he didn't takethese things.
460
00:26:57,851 --> 00:27:00,521
He took a stereo.
461
00:27:00,587 --> 00:27:03,256
He took a, uh, television set.
462
00:27:03,323 --> 00:27:08,962
He did not take any of
the personal items that we saw.
463
00:27:21,575 --> 00:27:23,510
(reporters clamoring)
464
00:27:23,577 --> 00:27:25,211
Good morning. How are you?
465
00:27:25,278 --> 00:27:27,213
Hi, Rebecca. Yes.
466
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,749
REPORTER:
How do you feel like it's going?
467
00:27:28,815 --> 00:27:30,984
I‐It's got to have been
a‐a painful experience,
468
00:27:31,051 --> 00:27:32,919
‐this whole trial.
‐Very painful.
469
00:27:32,986 --> 00:27:35,656
‐How would you describe it?
‐Uh, shattering.
470
00:27:35,722 --> 00:27:40,060
It's been, uh, very draining,
emotionally, financially.
471
00:27:40,126 --> 00:27:42,963
Uh, opened my life up
to, uh, the entire world again.
472
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:44,965
SEGAL: Okay, I think we've got
to go up in the court.
473
00:27:45,031 --> 00:27:47,133
‐Okay.
‐Thank you.
‐Have a good day.
474
00:27:49,135 --> 00:27:50,270
(clears throat)
475
00:27:58,378 --> 00:28:02,849
BLACKBURN:The day that MacDonaldtestified on cross‐examination,
476
00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:06,419
I went up and touched him,
touched his arm.
477
00:28:06,486 --> 00:28:08,421
And the reasonI touched him was I wanted
478
00:28:08,488 --> 00:28:11,658
to realize that he wasjust a normal person.
479
00:28:11,725 --> 00:28:15,495
'Cause I didn't wantto be intimidated by him.
480
00:28:15,562 --> 00:28:19,165
And there was a little bitof that, even so.
481
00:28:21,467 --> 00:28:24,337
Dr. MacDonald,should the jury find,
482
00:28:24,404 --> 00:28:26,707
from the evidence, that in
the master bedroom there were
483
00:28:26,773 --> 00:28:32,245
60 or more sewing threads whichmatch your blue pajama top,
484
00:28:32,312 --> 00:28:37,250
do you have, sir,any explanation for that?
485
00:28:39,085 --> 00:28:43,524
MacDONALD:No, sir, I don't haveany explanation for that.
486
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:45,391
BLACKBURN:We didn't thinkhe was gonna confess.
487
00:28:45,458 --> 00:28:48,995
We simply wantedto wear him down.
488
00:28:49,062 --> 00:28:51,565
We wanted to get him tired.
489
00:28:51,632 --> 00:28:54,968
Dr. MacDonald, if the juryshould find, from the evidence,
490
00:28:55,035 --> 00:28:57,103
that there is a fabricimpression matching
491
00:28:57,170 --> 00:28:59,906
the right cuff of your bluepajama top on it,
492
00:28:59,973 --> 00:29:03,076
do you haveany explanation for that?
493
00:29:04,511 --> 00:29:06,780
If the jury should find?
494
00:29:06,847 --> 00:29:09,115
No.
495
00:29:09,182 --> 00:29:11,151
It was pretty clever
cross‐examination
496
00:29:11,217 --> 00:29:13,119
and it's fair cross‐examination.
497
00:29:13,186 --> 00:29:17,023
"If the jury should find that,
what do you say to it?"
498
00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:18,825
Can't say anything.
499
00:29:18,892 --> 00:29:23,396
BLACKBURN:Where did you putthe pajama top?
500
00:29:25,398 --> 00:29:28,468
MacDONALD:I do not recall.
501
00:29:28,535 --> 00:29:32,405
BLACKBURN:
Dr. MacDonald, should the jury
find, from the evidence,
502
00:29:32,472 --> 00:29:36,376
that the 48 puncture holes
in your blue pajama top
503
00:29:36,442 --> 00:29:41,882
match up with the 21 puncture
holes in Colette's chest,
504
00:29:41,948 --> 00:29:44,851
do you have
any explanation for that?
505
00:29:47,554 --> 00:29:48,989
MacDONALD:No!
506
00:29:49,055 --> 00:29:51,692
(indistinct whispering)
507
00:29:51,758 --> 00:29:53,059
MASEWICZ:I thought
508
00:29:53,126 --> 00:29:54,394
that he was gonna get up
509
00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:56,963
and‐and poke the prosecutor
in the face.
510
00:29:57,030 --> 00:29:59,032
I mean, he got so mad.
511
00:29:59,099 --> 00:30:02,368
I mean, he got
beet, beet red in the face.
512
00:30:02,435 --> 00:30:04,370
What kind of person
would kill their wife?
513
00:30:04,437 --> 00:30:07,473
An angry, irritated person,
you know?
514
00:30:07,541 --> 00:30:10,811
BLACKBURN:
Your Honor, that concludes the
government's cross‐examination.
515
00:30:10,877 --> 00:30:13,046
(gallery whispering)
516
00:30:23,389 --> 00:30:26,292
His story of what happened
in that house that night
517
00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:28,695
completely disintegrated
and fell apart.
518
00:30:28,762 --> 00:30:31,197
In other words, the way he says
519
00:30:31,264 --> 00:30:34,067
the murders occurred,
the way he was attacked,
520
00:30:34,134 --> 00:30:37,270
just did not stand up
under scrutiny.
521
00:30:37,337 --> 00:30:38,772
REPORTER:
Mrs. Kassab, what would you like
522
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:40,240
to see happen to Dr. MacDonald?
523
00:30:40,306 --> 00:30:42,576
Well, I would like
to see him imprisoned.
524
00:30:44,678 --> 00:30:47,147
Okay, you know, st‐‐ you better
stop before you guys get,
525
00:30:47,213 --> 00:30:48,849
you know, bowled over.
526
00:30:48,915 --> 00:30:51,484
(sighs)
527
00:30:51,552 --> 00:30:54,220
REPORTER 2:
How do you think it went today?
528
00:30:54,287 --> 00:30:56,690
‐Bernie or me?
‐Both of you.
‐You.
529
00:30:56,757 --> 00:30:59,926
I was being cross‐examined
today, uh, by a government
530
00:30:59,993 --> 00:31:02,462
who really doesn't have
a theory about the case,
531
00:31:02,529 --> 00:31:05,231
and they were asking me
to supply them with the theory.
532
00:31:05,298 --> 00:31:07,000
I could not do that
on cross‐examination.
533
00:31:07,067 --> 00:31:08,368
I don't think I'm hurt by that.
534
00:31:08,434 --> 00:31:10,370
They presented, uh,
the identical case
535
00:31:10,436 --> 00:31:14,941
that was presented in 1970,
and, uh, Colonel Rock in 1970
536
00:31:15,008 --> 00:31:16,643
found me not, you know,
not guilty,
537
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:18,545
and this jury's gonna
find me not guilty.
538
00:31:18,612 --> 00:31:20,013
I am innocent.
539
00:31:29,122 --> 00:31:33,894
With all my heart, with all
the sincerity that I feel,
540
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,563
I tell every one of you
541
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:40,634
that Jeffrey MacDonald
did not kill his family.
542
00:31:51,745 --> 00:31:54,781
THORNHILL: When Bernie came up,I really thought,
543
00:31:54,848 --> 00:31:58,018
if anybody could've gotten him
off on this situation,
544
00:31:58,084 --> 00:31:59,786
that man could've done it.
545
00:31:59,853 --> 00:32:03,023
We were still giving him
the benefit of the doubt.
546
00:32:14,267 --> 00:32:15,736
KEELER:Bernie did what Bernie does,
547
00:32:15,802 --> 00:32:19,339
you know, he‐he went over
all of the pieces of, uh,
548
00:32:19,405 --> 00:32:23,209
uh, evidence, and tried to put
the spin on them that they want
549
00:32:23,276 --> 00:32:26,479
to put on them all throughout
the cross‐examination.
550
00:32:26,547 --> 00:32:28,882
‐SEGAL: Just in case...
‐BLACKBURN: And thenhe goes off,
551
00:32:28,949 --> 00:32:31,585
lecturing about the meaningof reasonable doubt,
552
00:32:31,652 --> 00:32:33,787
and circumstantial evidence
and all this stuff.
553
00:32:33,854 --> 00:32:35,288
Well, the judge
is gonna do that.
554
00:32:35,355 --> 00:32:37,190
I think that's wasting his time.
555
00:32:37,257 --> 00:32:39,225
SEGAL:
Or if you feel, beyond
a reasonable doubt
556
00:32:39,292 --> 00:32:41,662
that this was Jeffrey
MacDonald's intent...
557
00:32:41,728 --> 00:32:45,298
...would stab himself
in the place he did...
558
00:32:45,365 --> 00:32:47,801
I don't th‐‐ remember him
stopping for a‐a sip of water.
559
00:32:47,868 --> 00:32:51,437
He kept going and going
and going. It‐it was amazing.
560
00:32:55,742 --> 00:32:58,044
Bernie just got all wound up.
561
00:33:10,290 --> 00:33:12,492
(Segal speaking distantly)
562
00:33:13,727 --> 00:33:15,729
(snoring)
563
00:33:19,165 --> 00:33:22,435
I was to take an hour,
564
00:33:22,503 --> 00:33:26,339
and, uh, my‐my argument
was to come last.
565
00:33:26,406 --> 00:33:28,374
...at the end of October
of 1970...
566
00:33:28,441 --> 00:33:30,711
SMITH:And I worked hardon that argument,
567
00:33:30,777 --> 00:33:34,047
and I was readyto give that argument.
568
00:33:34,114 --> 00:33:37,150
BLACKBURN:Judge Dupreedidn't stop Bernie.
569
00:33:37,217 --> 00:33:39,052
We didn't take a restroom break.
570
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:42,623
SMITH:Judge Dupree tapped
571
00:33:42,689 --> 00:33:44,424
his desk with a pencil.
572
00:33:44,490 --> 00:33:46,492
(pencil tapping)
573
00:33:52,332 --> 00:33:54,568
He took all of our time.
574
00:33:56,202 --> 00:33:58,672
And I sat there and realized
it was happening,
575
00:33:58,739 --> 00:34:01,575
but he‐he was...
he was first chair.
576
00:34:01,642 --> 00:34:04,878
I didn't really feel
like it would be appropriate
577
00:34:04,945 --> 00:34:06,747
for me to get up
and walk over
578
00:34:06,813 --> 00:34:10,116
and tap him on the shoulder
and say, "How about my time?"
579
00:34:19,025 --> 00:34:20,827
BLACKBURN:We take a break.
580
00:34:20,894 --> 00:34:22,162
So I turn to Wade,
581
00:34:22,228 --> 00:34:24,364
and MacDonald's standing there
with us.
582
00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:28,802
I said, "Wade, if you will tell
the jury that I did this,
583
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:33,306
I will give you ten minutes
of my time."
584
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,210
Jim Blackburn gave me
ten minutes,
585
00:34:37,277 --> 00:34:38,979
which was one
of the smartest things
586
00:34:39,045 --> 00:34:41,181
he's ever done in his life,
587
00:34:41,247 --> 00:34:44,918
because that was viewed
as so, so kind.
588
00:34:44,985 --> 00:34:46,820
Well, it was kind.
589
00:34:48,454 --> 00:34:53,126
What an opportunity it wasfor me to try
590
00:34:53,193 --> 00:34:55,195
to do something
with ten minutes.
591
00:34:55,261 --> 00:34:57,731
(chuckles)
592
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,857
He got the jury quiet for
the first time that afternoon.
593
00:35:38,071 --> 00:35:40,273
(pencil tapping)
594
00:36:04,030 --> 00:36:05,666
Jury members are scheduled
to begin deliberations today,
595
00:36:05,732 --> 00:36:07,868
and they'll be told by the judge
not to decide
596
00:36:07,934 --> 00:36:10,771
if Jeffrey MacDonald
has proven his innocence,
597
00:36:10,837 --> 00:36:13,674
but whether the prosecution
has proven his guilt.
598
00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:17,477
Bob Jimenez, NBC News,
Raleigh, North Carolina.
599
00:36:21,848 --> 00:36:24,217
SMITH:I have a certain thing I do
600
00:36:24,284 --> 00:36:26,486
when a jury's out.
601
00:36:26,553 --> 00:36:29,790
I don't ever just
602
00:36:29,856 --> 00:36:34,060
talk with folks out in the hall
while they're waiting.
603
00:36:34,127 --> 00:36:35,962
Uh, I don't... I don't do that.
604
00:36:36,029 --> 00:36:40,967
I don't bring something to work
on while they're deliberating.
605
00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:43,937
I don't bring a book to read.
606
00:36:44,004 --> 00:36:46,973
I sit... like this,
607
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,175
and I send them messages.
608
00:36:49,242 --> 00:36:52,278
I think... hard.
609
00:36:52,345 --> 00:36:55,281
Who knows. It may work.
610
00:36:57,884 --> 00:37:00,386
KEELER:I don't think we left the hall
611
00:37:00,453 --> 00:37:01,922
the whole time.
It wasn't that long.
612
00:37:01,988 --> 00:37:03,223
I think it was about‐‐ what‐‐
613
00:37:03,289 --> 00:37:04,658
six hours
or something like that,
614
00:37:04,725 --> 00:37:07,027
which is,
after a six‐week trial,
615
00:37:07,093 --> 00:37:10,230
you know, that's not a lot.
616
00:37:10,296 --> 00:37:12,498
We took our...
617
00:37:13,299 --> 00:37:15,501
(muffled whimper)
618
00:37:20,106 --> 00:37:22,042
Sorry. It, uh...
619
00:37:22,108 --> 00:37:24,778
Aah! We took our final vote,
620
00:37:24,845 --> 00:37:26,446
and it was 12‐0.
621
00:37:26,513 --> 00:37:29,082
And, uh, that place was...
622
00:37:29,149 --> 00:37:30,851
It was unbelievable.
623
00:37:30,917 --> 00:37:33,587
The atmosphere in there
was‐was just...
624
00:37:33,654 --> 00:37:35,656
Uh, you could cut it
with a knife.
625
00:37:35,722 --> 00:37:38,491
Within a split second,
women were crying.
626
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:40,627
And it was like,
"Good. This is real."
627
00:37:40,694 --> 00:37:43,029
This was... this was real.
628
00:37:43,096 --> 00:37:44,798
(sniffles)
629
00:37:44,865 --> 00:37:48,468
FREDDY:The only wayI can describe MacDonald
630
00:37:48,535 --> 00:37:50,504
is that he isa true psychopath.
631
00:37:50,571 --> 00:37:53,139
He killed Coletteand the children,
632
00:37:53,206 --> 00:37:54,407
and he should pay for it.
633
00:37:54,474 --> 00:37:55,542
Are you supposed to sit back
634
00:37:55,609 --> 00:37:58,011
and do nothing about it?
635
00:37:58,078 --> 00:38:01,948
He's lucky I haven't gone outand killed him.
636
00:38:08,288 --> 00:38:10,524
MALLEY:When we went backfor the verdict,
637
00:38:10,591 --> 00:38:12,859
Jeff was wearinga bulletproof vest,
638
00:38:12,926 --> 00:38:16,630
which was Bernie's idea,on the theory
639
00:38:16,697 --> 00:38:18,665
that Freddy was... had said,
640
00:38:18,732 --> 00:38:20,133
"You know, I'm gonna kill him."
(mumbles)
641
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,335
Freddy had said all sorts
of things about that.
642
00:38:31,044 --> 00:38:33,046
(door squeaks open)
643
00:38:36,983 --> 00:38:39,385
BLACKBURN:Nobody came through the door.
644
00:38:41,287 --> 00:38:43,657
It seemed like an hour.
645
00:38:48,061 --> 00:38:49,362
The first juror
646
00:38:49,429 --> 00:38:52,332
almost stumblesinto the courtroom,
647
00:38:52,398 --> 00:38:54,535
weeping.
648
00:38:54,601 --> 00:38:57,871
The second juror
still isn't in,
649
00:38:57,938 --> 00:38:59,906
and comes in behind her,
650
00:38:59,973 --> 00:39:02,543
crying, also.
651
00:39:05,011 --> 00:39:07,447
He says, "Have you reacheda verdict?" "We have."
652
00:39:07,514 --> 00:39:11,785
And he hands it upto the clerk...
653
00:39:11,852 --> 00:39:14,755
who hands the verdictto Judge Dupree.
654
00:39:16,957 --> 00:39:19,560
Judge Dupree opens it,
655
00:39:19,626 --> 00:39:22,428
and I recall
that he looked at me.
656
00:39:23,496 --> 00:39:26,032
He didn't nod.
He just looked at me.
657
00:39:26,099 --> 00:39:29,435
CLERK:
Will the jurors please stand?
658
00:39:31,505 --> 00:39:34,575
How do you findas to count one?
659
00:39:34,641 --> 00:39:36,677
Is the defendant,Jeffrey R. MacDonald,
660
00:39:36,743 --> 00:39:41,381
guilty or not guilty asto murder in the first degree?
661
00:39:44,250 --> 00:39:46,753
JURORS:
Not guilty.
662
00:39:46,820 --> 00:39:49,790
Count one,
against Colette MacDonald,
663
00:39:49,856 --> 00:39:52,125
murder in the first degree‐‐
how do you find?
664
00:39:52,192 --> 00:39:53,627
Not guilty.
665
00:39:53,694 --> 00:39:55,228
And then, how do you findwith the respect
666
00:39:55,295 --> 00:39:58,031
to guilty,murder in the second degree?
667
00:39:58,098 --> 00:40:00,901
JURORS:
Guilty.
668
00:40:00,967 --> 00:40:03,670
BLACKBURN:His mother wasin the courtroom.
669
00:40:03,737 --> 00:40:05,972
In my life, I have never heardanybody scream
670
00:40:06,039 --> 00:40:08,975
the way she screamed.It was a
671
00:40:09,042 --> 00:40:13,179
blood‐curdling scream as though
someone was going to die.
672
00:40:13,246 --> 00:40:15,682
They had to take her outof the courtroom.
673
00:40:15,749 --> 00:40:18,118
She didn't hearthe whole thing.
674
00:40:18,184 --> 00:40:21,888
CLERK: How do you findas to count two?
675
00:40:21,955 --> 00:40:24,758
JURORS:Guilty in the second.
676
00:40:27,227 --> 00:40:29,696
CLERK: How do you findas to count three?
677
00:40:29,763 --> 00:40:34,034
JURORS:Guilty in the first.
678
00:40:42,242 --> 00:40:43,710
(sniffles)
679
00:40:43,777 --> 00:40:45,746
You know, it's‐it's...
680
00:40:45,812 --> 00:40:48,515
We felt badly for him,
681
00:40:48,582 --> 00:40:51,685
but we didn't feel badly
for what we came up with
682
00:40:51,752 --> 00:40:54,020
and what
our‐our final verdict was.
683
00:40:54,087 --> 00:40:57,524
We believed that was the right,
uh... right decision.
684
00:41:01,995 --> 00:41:03,930
MALLEY:As soon asthe verdict came back,
685
00:41:03,997 --> 00:41:05,331
and the clerk read the verdict,
686
00:41:05,398 --> 00:41:08,134
the judge had the probation
report and started sentencing.
687
00:41:08,201 --> 00:41:10,671
He sentenced him right away.
688
00:41:12,939 --> 00:41:15,542
BLACKBURN:Judge Dupree gave him
689
00:41:15,609 --> 00:41:19,079
three life sentences,
consecutive.
690
00:41:19,145 --> 00:41:21,748
Which is the harshest sentence
he could give him.
691
00:41:30,791 --> 00:41:33,093
No.
692
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:36,630
I think, uh,the judge was biased.
693
00:41:36,697 --> 00:41:38,131
He was my friend.
694
00:41:38,198 --> 00:41:39,633
I'm sorry.
695
00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:43,937
And... I think that
696
00:41:44,004 --> 00:41:47,774
I didn't getto make my argument.
697
00:41:49,776 --> 00:41:53,313
And I think that
is quite remarkable.
698
00:41:53,379 --> 00:41:58,484
Suppose, having beenat the top of my game,
699
00:41:58,552 --> 00:42:01,254
the best I would ever be,
700
00:42:01,321 --> 00:42:04,224
believing...
701
00:42:04,290 --> 00:42:06,326
in myself,
702
00:42:06,392 --> 00:42:07,928
and my cause...
703
00:42:07,994 --> 00:42:12,599
give me a whole hourwith that jury.
704
00:42:14,467 --> 00:42:16,903
Let me say
what has worked for me
705
00:42:16,970 --> 00:42:20,106
in case after case after case
to this point.
706
00:42:20,173 --> 00:42:24,745
And realize that I only needto persuade one juror.
707
00:42:24,811 --> 00:42:26,747
That's all.
708
00:42:26,813 --> 00:42:28,749
Just one juror.
709
00:42:28,815 --> 00:42:31,585
And realizing
I didn't get to do it.
710
00:42:33,186 --> 00:42:34,721
What would have happened?
711
00:42:34,788 --> 00:42:37,758
No, I don't think
it was a fair trial.
712
00:42:38,659 --> 00:42:42,529
(indistinct crowd murmuring)
713
00:42:42,596 --> 00:42:43,897
BLACKBURN:There's never beenany vindictiveness
714
00:42:43,964 --> 00:42:45,165
on the part of the prosecution.
715
00:42:45,231 --> 00:42:47,333
It's beena, a pursuit of truth,
716
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,370
it's been a pursuit of justice;
that's what we told the jury,
717
00:42:50,436 --> 00:42:53,173
that's what I tell you today,
and that's the truth.
718
00:42:58,111 --> 00:43:00,446
SEGAL:How could the juryhave done this?
719
00:43:00,514 --> 00:43:01,948
Tomorrow morning, at 9:00,
720
00:43:02,015 --> 00:43:03,684
Wade Smith and I will file
721
00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:06,452
a notice of appeal
722
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,421
that will take this case
on its way
723
00:43:08,488 --> 00:43:10,657
to the U. S. Court of Appeals
for the Fourth Circuit.
724
00:43:20,066 --> 00:43:23,336
MILDRED:I feel relievedthat it's all over.
725
00:43:23,403 --> 00:43:26,406
It's been a very difficult thing
for me, being here,
726
00:43:26,472 --> 00:43:27,874
reliving the whole thing.
727
00:43:27,941 --> 00:43:30,677
But I feel that
now that it's over,
728
00:43:30,744 --> 00:43:33,847
perhaps we can s‐‐
wipe everything clean,
729
00:43:33,914 --> 00:43:35,882
try to live again.
730
00:43:41,888 --> 00:43:45,826
(indistinct crowd murmuring)
731
00:43:53,867 --> 00:43:56,102
(indistinct conversation)
732
00:43:59,072 --> 00:44:01,642
REPORTER:
Helena, the MacDonald murders
733
00:44:01,708 --> 00:44:05,311
occurred in the early morning
hours of February 18, 1970.
734
00:44:05,378 --> 00:44:08,849
Since that time,
a number of people have said
735
00:44:08,915 --> 00:44:11,317
that you talked to them
and advised
736
00:44:11,384 --> 00:44:13,687
that you were definitely there.
737
00:44:13,754 --> 00:44:17,090
Can you tell us why
you've changed your mind
738
00:44:17,157 --> 00:44:20,060
through these last 12 years
so many times?
739
00:44:20,126 --> 00:44:22,128
♪♪ ♪♪
740
00:44:34,407 --> 00:44:38,812
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