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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:23,627 --> 00:00:25,877 (cheering) 2 00:00:32,011 --> 00:00:34,261 (shouting) 3 00:00:38,928 --> 00:00:42,261 (upbeat pop rock music) 4 00:00:43,969 --> 00:00:47,569 - [Narrator] What does it mean to be gay and be a man? 5 00:00:47,569 --> 00:00:52,049 Given all the different types of gay men out there, 6 00:00:52,049 --> 00:00:54,667 there's no straight answer for sure. 7 00:00:54,667 --> 00:00:56,187 - There was no one to go talk to, 8 00:00:56,187 --> 00:00:59,750 like a gay Buddha or gay Yoda and say, "Mm, tell me please." 9 00:00:59,750 --> 00:01:03,067 - I didn't know what a role model meant to me. 10 00:01:03,067 --> 00:01:06,106 - I didn't act the way that the people 11 00:01:06,106 --> 00:01:07,947 that were called gay act, 12 00:01:07,947 --> 00:01:10,731 so I would question sometimes if I was. 13 00:01:10,731 --> 00:01:11,910 - I didn't know what gay was. 14 00:01:11,910 --> 00:01:15,787 I just knew it was something that was not looked upon. 15 00:01:15,787 --> 00:01:17,547 - I didn't feel like I fit in the gay world. 16 00:01:17,547 --> 00:01:19,346 I didn't feel like I fit in the straight world. 17 00:01:19,346 --> 00:01:22,310 - When you think of being gay, there's such a stereotype. 18 00:01:22,310 --> 00:01:24,987 That's why a lot of people tend to stay in the closet. 19 00:01:24,987 --> 00:01:27,750 - I'm supposed to be this dominant man and 20 00:01:27,750 --> 00:01:30,491 I'm still kind of hiding it. 21 00:01:30,491 --> 00:01:32,987 - [Narrator] We'll profile a wide range of gay men 22 00:01:32,987 --> 00:01:35,825 to explore how they define what it means to be a man. 23 00:01:35,825 --> 00:01:38,728 - With a gay man, masculinity is a feature that 24 00:01:38,728 --> 00:01:41,830 they actually think about more often than straight men 25 00:01:41,830 --> 00:01:44,528 because straight men are just basically following a line. 26 00:01:44,528 --> 00:01:46,971 - Homosexul men have a very conflicted 27 00:01:46,971 --> 00:01:49,131 relationship with masculinity. 28 00:01:49,131 --> 00:01:51,649 They put it up on a pedestal and on the other side, 29 00:01:51,649 --> 00:01:53,611 they're afraid that other men are going to make fun of them. 30 00:01:53,611 --> 00:01:54,731 And they will. 31 00:01:54,731 --> 00:01:56,950 - I was physically assaulted many times in school. 32 00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:58,929 I just didn't fit in at all to the rigid standards 33 00:01:58,929 --> 00:02:01,851 for what men and women do. 34 00:02:01,851 --> 00:02:03,547 - Being labeled as a faggot before 35 00:02:03,547 --> 00:02:06,608 I even knew that I was gay. 36 00:02:06,608 --> 00:02:09,131 - Learning to look through a magnifying glass at 37 00:02:09,131 --> 00:02:11,003 how we're performing masculinity, 38 00:02:11,003 --> 00:02:14,490 there's a potential feeling that we have of "I've failed." 39 00:02:14,490 --> 00:02:17,649 - There are different ways that people enact 40 00:02:17,649 --> 00:02:19,270 what it means to be masculine. 41 00:02:19,270 --> 00:02:21,467 There's no one category called Gay Men. 42 00:02:21,467 --> 00:02:23,355 - There are extremes to both ends of 43 00:02:23,355 --> 00:02:25,026 masculinity and femininity. 44 00:02:25,026 --> 00:02:26,470 It's just where you end up in that spectrum. 45 00:02:26,470 --> 00:02:27,547 It's who you are. 46 00:02:27,547 --> 00:02:31,270 - Masculinity has to be a special challenge for gay men 47 00:02:31,270 --> 00:02:34,731 because we are attracted to other men 48 00:02:34,731 --> 00:02:38,066 so the question of what makes a man a man 49 00:02:38,066 --> 00:02:40,529 and how I can be the thing that 50 00:02:40,529 --> 00:02:44,470 I desire is a central question about who we are as a people. 51 00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:47,803 (upbeat pop rock music) 52 00:02:50,769 --> 00:02:54,489 - [Narrator] This is The Butch Factor. 53 00:02:54,489 --> 00:02:57,572 (intense rock music) 54 00:02:59,030 --> 00:03:05,104 Advertise your product or brand here contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today 55 00:03:06,503 --> 00:03:09,543 - To be a man is to be trustworthy, to be genuine, 56 00:03:09,543 --> 00:03:11,409 to do what you say you're gonna do, 57 00:03:11,409 --> 00:03:12,651 to follow through on your word, 58 00:03:12,651 --> 00:03:14,529 be honorable and treat people well. 59 00:03:14,529 --> 00:03:17,449 To put it in a short version, just do the right thing 60 00:03:17,449 --> 00:03:19,130 and we all know what that means. 61 00:03:19,130 --> 00:03:21,066 - [Narrator] When he's not pursuing his favorite passion, 62 00:03:21,066 --> 00:03:24,250 football, Jason Hefley works for a construction company 63 00:03:24,250 --> 00:03:26,767 in San Diego, California. 64 00:03:26,767 --> 00:03:30,106 - Being gay, or being attracted to men, 65 00:03:30,106 --> 00:03:32,788 is a sexual preference and that's just 66 00:03:32,788 --> 00:03:35,808 one part of Jason Hefley, a very small part, quite frankly. 67 00:03:35,808 --> 00:03:37,247 I'm also an athlete. 68 00:03:37,247 --> 00:03:39,967 I'm also an uncle, a great son, 69 00:03:39,967 --> 00:03:42,607 and all these different variables. 70 00:03:42,607 --> 00:03:45,383 It doesn't dictate what I am or what I do 71 00:03:45,383 --> 00:03:47,188 or anything like that. 72 00:03:47,188 --> 00:03:49,209 - [Narrator] Jason plays in a gay flag football 73 00:03:49,209 --> 00:03:50,927 league in San Diego. 74 00:03:50,927 --> 00:03:52,847 The city hosts 10 gay teams and is one of 75 00:03:52,847 --> 00:03:56,525 17 gay football leagues around the country. 76 00:03:56,525 --> 00:03:59,791 - There's a lot of former college athletes. 77 00:03:59,791 --> 00:04:02,047 There are some straight guys in the league that 78 00:04:02,047 --> 00:04:03,326 have good athletic background. 79 00:04:03,326 --> 00:04:04,969 Just some great athletes out there in general. 80 00:04:04,969 --> 00:04:07,370 The dynamics are very competitive. 81 00:04:07,370 --> 00:04:10,286 It's a very competitive environment. 82 00:04:10,286 --> 00:04:12,869 (men shouting) 83 00:04:18,274 --> 00:04:20,571 Flag football is surprisingly physical. 84 00:04:20,571 --> 00:04:22,961 It's definitely a contact sport. 85 00:04:22,961 --> 00:04:24,236 - You don't have any padding on but people are 86 00:04:24,236 --> 00:04:26,339 still running into each other, so it can be pretty rough. 87 00:04:26,339 --> 00:04:29,308 I've had a couple of injuries from it. 88 00:04:29,308 --> 00:04:31,366 My grandfather was actually an All-American 89 00:04:31,366 --> 00:04:33,696 quarterback for Princeton and so I've got the lineage 90 00:04:33,696 --> 00:04:34,998 and I really like the game. 91 00:04:34,998 --> 00:04:36,767 Love football, going to University of Florida, 92 00:04:36,767 --> 00:04:38,200 football is the main thing there. 93 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,469 I won a bronze medal at the Gay Games, played football. 94 00:04:39,469 --> 00:04:41,897 It's become a big part of my life. 95 00:04:41,897 --> 00:04:45,730 - I've always played sports since I was a kid, 96 00:04:46,781 --> 00:04:49,386 so coming out here I was trying to find just a good 97 00:04:49,386 --> 00:04:52,145 community of gay people to play ball with. 98 00:04:52,145 --> 00:04:54,037 I think you have more of a sense of togetherness because 99 00:04:54,037 --> 00:04:55,344 we're just a small gay community, 100 00:04:55,344 --> 00:04:56,448 and for the straight people, 101 00:04:56,448 --> 00:04:57,605 and so on and we play here and 102 00:04:57,605 --> 00:04:58,842 we're off the field, we all hang out. 103 00:04:58,842 --> 00:05:00,012 When I play in the straight leagues, 104 00:05:00,012 --> 00:05:01,232 we don't hang out afterwards. 105 00:05:01,232 --> 00:05:02,520 We don't go grab a burger afterwards 106 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,500 or hang out at somebody's house because, 107 00:05:04,500 --> 00:05:06,845 I mean, I'm gonna guess that would be kind of gay. 108 00:05:06,845 --> 00:05:11,118 (men shouting and cheering) 109 00:05:11,118 --> 00:05:14,480 - Like most team sports, it feels like we're part of a team. 110 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,931 (men shouting and cheering) 111 00:05:17,931 --> 00:05:19,746 But, I also think it's great for the new guys, 112 00:05:19,746 --> 00:05:21,413 especially the guys who've never played, 113 00:05:21,413 --> 00:05:22,286 who come out here and say, 114 00:05:22,286 --> 00:05:23,279 "You know what? 115 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:24,399 "I can play football." 116 00:05:24,399 --> 00:05:25,833 That just gives me joy because I've been playing all my life 117 00:05:25,833 --> 00:05:27,059 I love football! 118 00:05:27,059 --> 00:05:30,476 (upbeat energetic music) 119 00:05:31,415 --> 00:05:33,443 - It seems to be such a stereotype of 120 00:05:33,443 --> 00:05:36,035 a manly, straight thing. 121 00:05:36,035 --> 00:05:38,015 We need to break those barriers. 122 00:05:38,015 --> 00:05:40,488 We have this league going and it's growing and 123 00:05:40,488 --> 00:05:41,957 we have a lot of people out there who just 124 00:05:41,957 --> 00:05:44,351 want to play the sport and have a good time. 125 00:05:44,351 --> 00:05:45,768 - Team athletics has always been a part of 126 00:05:45,768 --> 00:05:48,076 my upbringing and I think it has a lot to do with 127 00:05:48,076 --> 00:05:50,832 who I am today and my character. 128 00:05:50,832 --> 00:05:52,714 - [Narrator] Growing up in Arkansas and Oregon, 129 00:05:52,714 --> 00:05:54,609 Jason was an all-star football player 130 00:05:54,609 --> 00:05:56,374 in high school and college. 131 00:05:56,374 --> 00:05:57,591 He even played a while for 132 00:05:57,591 --> 00:05:59,280 Canada's professional football league. 133 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,775 - [Announcer] Then he just follows right off the tushy 134 00:06:01,775 --> 00:06:05,942 of the pulling tackle there, plays right off his butt. 135 00:06:10,261 --> 00:06:11,447 - Football teams became my families and 136 00:06:11,447 --> 00:06:14,435 coaches became my ad hoc fathers and that was 137 00:06:14,435 --> 00:06:18,113 a real important part of my growth and development. 138 00:06:18,113 --> 00:06:21,065 I was really shocked to find out that there didn't seem to 139 00:06:21,065 --> 00:06:24,035 be a lot of people like me in the gay community, initially. 140 00:06:24,035 --> 00:06:25,949 Maybe a little rough and tumble, 141 00:06:25,949 --> 00:06:29,183 a construction or blue-collar background. 142 00:06:29,183 --> 00:06:32,074 I've got a two-man auger out here, which is post-hold digger 143 00:06:32,074 --> 00:06:34,001 I have my boyfriend on the other side, 144 00:06:34,001 --> 00:06:35,537 which is kind of funny because he only weighs 145 00:06:35,537 --> 00:06:38,787 about 150 pounds and it was throwing him all over the place. 146 00:06:38,787 --> 00:06:40,324 This is pretty hard soil. 147 00:06:40,324 --> 00:06:42,995 I was finding in the gay community girl talk, 148 00:06:42,995 --> 00:06:45,495 pop culture, Madonna, fashion. 149 00:06:46,581 --> 00:06:48,715 I found myself, oftentimes, 150 00:06:48,715 --> 00:06:52,781 just being a sedentary participant in the community. 151 00:06:52,781 --> 00:06:56,757 Being involved in the flag football league has helped me 152 00:06:56,757 --> 00:07:00,590 come to terms with my identity because before, 153 00:07:01,475 --> 00:07:04,511 I didn't have any outlets and camaraderie 154 00:07:04,511 --> 00:07:08,110 experiences within the gay community. 155 00:07:08,110 --> 00:07:09,855 I've always viewed myself to be 156 00:07:09,855 --> 00:07:12,412 a very strong man, very confident. 157 00:07:12,412 --> 00:07:16,245 I didn't care what other people thought of me. 158 00:07:17,215 --> 00:07:19,409 That probably wasn't as true as much as 159 00:07:19,409 --> 00:07:21,029 I like to believe myself, 160 00:07:21,029 --> 00:07:23,849 so I found a lot of people who still, typically, 161 00:07:23,849 --> 00:07:27,131 wouldn't be perceived as strong as me. 162 00:07:27,131 --> 00:07:30,167 They were more confident in themselves and 163 00:07:30,167 --> 00:07:33,190 they were being themselves through sexuality and 164 00:07:33,190 --> 00:07:36,094 comfortable with their sexuality. 165 00:07:36,094 --> 00:07:39,460 So, it ws kind of a wake-up call. 166 00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:42,743 I'm supposed to be this dominant man and 167 00:07:42,743 --> 00:07:45,862 I'm still kind of hiding it. 168 00:07:45,862 --> 00:07:48,464 What does that really say about me. 169 00:07:48,464 --> 00:07:51,437 So, I think being around those guys over and over 170 00:07:51,437 --> 00:07:54,307 and over again and seeing their comfort level 171 00:07:54,307 --> 00:07:55,859 had a large part of me saying hey, 172 00:07:55,859 --> 00:07:58,796 you'd better take a look at yourself in the mirror. 173 00:07:58,796 --> 00:08:02,046 (upbeat intense music) 174 00:08:12,610 --> 00:08:14,803 - I have been in this department for almost 14 years. 175 00:08:14,803 --> 00:08:16,584 These are my original cuffs. 176 00:08:16,584 --> 00:08:18,924 The interesting thing about these handcuff is they have 177 00:08:18,924 --> 00:08:21,502 been on Richard Ramirez, The Night Stalker. 178 00:08:21,502 --> 00:08:23,575 I hold them on as friendly reminder of what 179 00:08:23,575 --> 00:08:26,158 everyone in life is capable of. 180 00:08:29,374 --> 00:08:31,455 One of the greatest things about being a deputy sheriff 181 00:08:31,455 --> 00:08:33,646 and working for the Sheriff's Department are 182 00:08:33,646 --> 00:08:35,397 the challenges that you face every day. 183 00:08:35,397 --> 00:08:38,728 The leadership skills that you possess, you bring with you. 184 00:08:38,728 --> 00:08:41,355 The inherent qualities that you have, you bring with you. 185 00:08:41,355 --> 00:08:44,022 They are utilized at any given moment. 186 00:08:44,022 --> 00:08:45,986 It's very difficult when you walk down a tier and 187 00:08:45,986 --> 00:08:47,673 you're called faggot-ass bitch, 188 00:08:47,673 --> 00:08:49,287 you try not to take it personal, 189 00:08:49,287 --> 00:08:51,878 that it doesn't really matter what people think, 190 00:08:51,878 --> 00:08:53,085 whether you're gay or not. 191 00:08:53,085 --> 00:08:55,923 The inmate population, the criminals as a whole 192 00:08:55,923 --> 00:08:59,272 begin to respect you, it's on the fact that you're honest, 193 00:08:59,272 --> 00:09:01,846 you have integrity, you say what you mean, 194 00:09:01,846 --> 00:09:05,429 you're fair and impartial across the board. 195 00:09:07,075 --> 00:09:09,783 I think, sometimes, there's this underlying feeling 196 00:09:09,783 --> 00:09:14,122 that because you are gay, that somehow you're less than 197 00:09:14,122 --> 00:09:17,123 and that could just be preconceived, 198 00:09:17,123 --> 00:09:19,107 something that I carry with myself, 199 00:09:19,107 --> 00:09:21,626 but at the same time, I do work with individuals that 200 00:09:21,626 --> 00:09:25,705 at times, feel that because they're heterosexual and 201 00:09:25,705 --> 00:09:29,733 I'm homosexual, somehow they're better than I am. 202 00:09:29,733 --> 00:09:31,713 It's gotten a lot better because, time and time again, 203 00:09:31,713 --> 00:09:33,693 especially in the San Francisco Sheriff's Department, 204 00:09:33,693 --> 00:09:37,305 you have leaders that are lesbian and gay and 205 00:09:37,305 --> 00:09:40,438 bisexual and questioning who have continued 206 00:09:40,438 --> 00:09:42,188 to make a difference. 207 00:09:44,725 --> 00:09:48,319 - I think there were many gays and lesbians who 208 00:09:48,319 --> 00:09:51,304 paved the road for myself and including Vince. 209 00:09:51,304 --> 00:09:54,773 I was hired through a gay recruitment 22 years ago. 210 00:09:54,773 --> 00:09:56,606 I have 178 sworn here. 211 00:09:57,772 --> 00:09:58,979 Most of them are men. 212 00:09:58,979 --> 00:10:00,779 I'm pretty well respected in the department 213 00:10:00,779 --> 00:10:03,749 as well as Vince is and he's great with taking 214 00:10:03,749 --> 00:10:05,892 command of situations and the people respect him, 215 00:10:05,892 --> 00:10:07,510 gay, straight or whatever. 216 00:10:07,510 --> 00:10:10,842 - He's very open with his lifestyle but he's not 217 00:10:10,842 --> 00:10:14,253 forcing it down anyone's throat. 218 00:10:14,253 --> 00:10:15,987 It's just who he is. 219 00:10:15,987 --> 00:10:18,612 There is the stigma of being gay. 220 00:10:18,612 --> 00:10:21,186 Law enforcement can be a very macho kind of thing and 221 00:10:21,186 --> 00:10:25,115 a lot of times the gays may not be seen as being macho. 222 00:10:25,115 --> 00:10:26,531 Although, look at Vince. 223 00:10:26,531 --> 00:10:30,691 I mean, no one's gonna say no to Vince, just from his size. 224 00:10:30,691 --> 00:10:34,637 There are other gay or lesbian employees in this department 225 00:10:34,637 --> 00:10:37,834 that are not as big and forceful. 226 00:10:37,834 --> 00:10:41,300 They're seen as weak, sometimes, by the staff, 227 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:44,352 because they are not afraid to show their emotions. 228 00:10:44,352 --> 00:10:46,416 There's this facade you're supposed to put up, 229 00:10:46,416 --> 00:10:51,344 the big, tough, or at least the unflappable professional. 230 00:10:51,344 --> 00:10:54,635 You get it done, you know, Joe Friday, just the facts, 231 00:10:54,635 --> 00:10:55,770 et cetera, et cetera. 232 00:10:55,770 --> 00:10:57,142 I think it's slowly changing. 233 00:10:57,142 --> 00:10:58,529 It takes a long time. 234 00:10:58,529 --> 00:11:02,916 - I've had grown men, both deputy sheriff and convict, 235 00:11:02,916 --> 00:11:06,084 and inmate, collapse in my arms in tears. 236 00:11:06,084 --> 00:11:07,140 Straight. 237 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:10,356 And they've felt comfortable to do that. 238 00:11:10,356 --> 00:11:14,136 Why that is, is it's not so much about this 239 00:11:14,136 --> 00:11:16,151 as it is about this. 240 00:11:16,151 --> 00:11:17,651 I have a heart. 241 00:11:17,651 --> 00:11:21,462 I like to use it a lot, not just for pumping muscle, 242 00:11:21,462 --> 00:11:23,952 but I think people trust in me and they know 243 00:11:23,952 --> 00:11:25,105 that I'm gonna do the right thing. 244 00:11:25,105 --> 00:11:26,561 I'm a very fair person. 245 00:11:26,561 --> 00:11:29,087 I can walk around, I can bust heads all day long. 246 00:11:29,087 --> 00:11:32,387 I could just bust through walls, metaphorically speaking, 247 00:11:32,387 --> 00:11:35,388 but I'm not gonna get any respect. 248 00:11:35,388 --> 00:11:37,482 I always wanted to be in law enforcement. 249 00:11:37,482 --> 00:11:38,855 I always wanted to be a firefighter. 250 00:11:38,855 --> 00:11:40,501 "But, you? 251 00:11:40,501 --> 00:11:42,630 "You can't be a firefighter. 252 00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:44,742 "You can't be in law enforcement." 253 00:11:44,742 --> 00:11:46,194 There were no gay role models. 254 00:11:46,194 --> 00:11:48,623 There was no one to go talk to, 255 00:11:48,623 --> 00:11:52,068 like a gay Buddha or gay Yoda, and say, you know, 256 00:11:52,068 --> 00:11:53,274 "Hmm, tell me please!" 257 00:11:53,274 --> 00:11:55,619 You know, there was none of that. 258 00:11:55,619 --> 00:11:58,173 I applied with the San Francisco Sheriff's Department 259 00:11:58,173 --> 00:12:01,538 and they hired me and then I didn't think I could make it. 260 00:12:01,538 --> 00:12:03,983 Because I was gay, I didn't think I would be accepted 261 00:12:03,983 --> 00:12:06,968 and that it would be a horrible experience and that 262 00:12:06,968 --> 00:12:10,052 eventually I would have to leave or I would be ousted 263 00:12:10,052 --> 00:12:14,099 or I would be made fun of or I would be ridiculed. 264 00:12:14,099 --> 00:12:16,818 So, here I walk onto a tier, a housing unit, 265 00:12:16,818 --> 00:12:21,645 with these convicts, people who had murdered and raped 266 00:12:21,645 --> 00:12:25,648 and stoled and it frightened me to death every day. 267 00:12:25,648 --> 00:12:26,999 They all knew I was gay. 268 00:12:26,999 --> 00:12:28,254 I was totally open about it. 269 00:12:28,254 --> 00:12:30,664 They nicknamed me The Savage because I wouldn't give up. 270 00:12:30,664 --> 00:12:34,627 I mean, I was getting guys turning on me with their fists up 271 00:12:34,627 --> 00:12:36,750 like these convicts ready to fight me. 272 00:12:36,750 --> 00:12:37,974 Not my experience. 273 00:12:37,974 --> 00:12:39,957 Thank God, I have the support of all my deputies 274 00:12:39,957 --> 00:12:43,967 and after about nine months, I just wasn't afraid any more. 275 00:12:43,967 --> 00:12:46,304 There's not too much today that I'm afraid of. 276 00:12:46,304 --> 00:12:51,203 A man is someone who looks adversity straight in the face 277 00:12:51,203 --> 00:12:55,038 and faces it head-on with courage and fortitude. 278 00:12:55,038 --> 00:12:56,929 Masculinity resides in here. 279 00:12:56,929 --> 00:12:58,893 You could look at me and people say, 280 00:12:58,893 --> 00:13:00,549 "Oh, my God, he's the epitome of masculinity," 281 00:13:00,549 --> 00:13:02,113 and the next moment you could see me and I'm just 282 00:13:02,113 --> 00:13:04,561 chatting it up like the little Chatty Cathy with people 283 00:13:04,561 --> 00:13:06,683 but I'm comfortable with that. 284 00:13:06,683 --> 00:13:09,347 I don't think that qualifies like, 285 00:13:09,347 --> 00:13:10,701 "Oh, he's so feminine." 286 00:13:10,701 --> 00:13:12,284 No, I'm everything. 287 00:13:18,524 --> 00:13:21,790 (upbeat energetic music) 288 00:13:21,790 --> 00:13:24,872 (crowds cheering) 289 00:13:24,872 --> 00:13:26,458 - The people that were called gay, I didn't act that way. 290 00:13:26,458 --> 00:13:29,291 (crowds cheering) 291 00:13:30,562 --> 00:13:32,937 So, I would question sometimes if I was, 292 00:13:32,937 --> 00:13:36,213 (upbeat energetic music) 293 00:13:36,213 --> 00:13:38,844 even though I had that attraction. 294 00:13:38,844 --> 00:13:40,984 - [Narrator] Kevin Reed plays for both gay and straight 295 00:13:40,984 --> 00:13:43,701 softball teams in Dallas, Texas. 296 00:13:43,701 --> 00:13:46,797 - I would look at guys longer than I would look at girls, 297 00:13:46,797 --> 00:13:47,786 you know, in a certain way. 298 00:13:47,786 --> 00:13:49,911 I tried to suppress it, I tried not to be that way 299 00:13:49,911 --> 00:13:52,197 because I have a very religious background. 300 00:13:52,197 --> 00:13:55,744 I just felt out of place on both sides of it. 301 00:13:55,744 --> 00:13:57,544 Growing up, being African-American, people stereotype 302 00:13:57,544 --> 00:14:01,341 and judge me just from the color of my skin. 303 00:14:01,341 --> 00:14:02,944 It's just like being gay. 304 00:14:02,944 --> 00:14:04,744 They judge you without even knowing you. 305 00:14:04,744 --> 00:14:06,708 A lot of my peers, a lot of my friends, 306 00:14:06,708 --> 00:14:08,378 guys that I play ball with, 307 00:14:08,378 --> 00:14:11,493 I wouldn't want them to know just because they automatically 308 00:14:11,493 --> 00:14:14,264 think that you like them or that you're after them. 309 00:14:14,264 --> 00:14:16,173 They forget about the guy that they know and 310 00:14:16,173 --> 00:14:18,908 that they grew up with and automatically think, you're gay, 311 00:14:18,908 --> 00:14:23,075 so that's what's in front of me the person is me being gay. 312 00:14:27,496 --> 00:14:29,028 It's still kind of rough for me right now. 313 00:14:29,028 --> 00:14:32,013 I'm still dealing with it but this kind of stuff helps a lot 314 00:14:32,013 --> 00:14:33,506 Being able to play something I like and still be 315 00:14:33,506 --> 00:14:36,890 competitive with gay guys because I always felt that 316 00:14:36,890 --> 00:14:38,604 they probably wouldn't be as good. 317 00:14:38,604 --> 00:14:40,725 I don't know why I thought that because of myself. 318 00:14:40,725 --> 00:14:43,654 I don't care for attention to show and 319 00:14:43,654 --> 00:14:46,822 prove to everybody that I'm gay. 320 00:14:46,822 --> 00:14:47,906 I'm just a regular guy. 321 00:14:47,906 --> 00:14:51,040 They had other guys out there that were the same as I am. 322 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,156 It just kind of helps me accept it a little bit more, 323 00:14:54,156 --> 00:14:55,968 be able to deal with it a little bit more. 324 00:14:55,968 --> 00:14:59,385 But, I still keep it away from my family. 325 00:15:00,924 --> 00:15:03,332 (melancholy piano music) 326 00:15:03,332 --> 00:15:04,792 I have some good friends that are straight but 327 00:15:04,792 --> 00:15:07,058 just from having conversations with them, 328 00:15:07,058 --> 00:15:09,432 they just can't, seems like they can't handle it. 329 00:15:09,432 --> 00:15:12,311 They can't see a masculine guy being gay without 330 00:15:12,311 --> 00:15:15,448 putting the DL tag on him as well. 331 00:15:15,448 --> 00:15:18,381 I've never been on the down-low where 332 00:15:18,381 --> 00:15:22,548 I was with guys and girls and if you're masculine, 333 00:15:24,334 --> 00:15:27,204 lately a lot of people have been putting that on guys 334 00:15:27,204 --> 00:15:29,593 that they're on the DL, black guys. 335 00:15:29,593 --> 00:15:32,872 (crowd shouting) 336 00:15:32,872 --> 00:15:36,276 The reason I didn't date women and pursue that is 337 00:15:36,276 --> 00:15:39,026 because I knew that's not what I really wanted and 338 00:15:39,026 --> 00:15:40,754 I have a sister and I have a mother and I wouldn't want 339 00:15:40,754 --> 00:15:44,921 anybody to do that to them just to cover up whoever they are 340 00:15:48,614 --> 00:15:50,546 - [Narrator] Marcus Nunn and Dalph Johnson 341 00:15:50,546 --> 00:15:51,746 are Kevin's teammates. 342 00:15:51,746 --> 00:15:55,154 They faced similar challenges growing up as gay men. 343 00:15:55,154 --> 00:15:57,189 - It's not well-accepted in a black household, 344 00:15:57,189 --> 00:16:00,588 because African-American men are raised to be very macho. 345 00:16:00,588 --> 00:16:04,821 - I think in the time when I was actually trying to come out 346 00:16:04,821 --> 00:16:08,220 it was a little bit more harder and more tougher 347 00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:10,470 to be gay and be masculine. 348 00:16:12,146 --> 00:16:14,988 - When you think of being gay, there's such a stereotype. 349 00:16:14,988 --> 00:16:18,429 A lot of people don't look at the big picture. 350 00:16:18,429 --> 00:16:20,816 We are just like everybody else. 351 00:16:20,816 --> 00:16:22,029 Society is so judgemental. 352 00:16:22,029 --> 00:16:25,500 That's why a lot of people tend to stay in the closet. 353 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:29,469 - I got married and tried to cover the thing up and 354 00:16:29,469 --> 00:16:31,893 forget about who I really was. 355 00:16:31,893 --> 00:16:33,765 I don't regret the marriage. 356 00:16:33,765 --> 00:16:37,202 It was a learning process and the learning process I learned 357 00:16:37,202 --> 00:16:38,695 to be true to who I am. 358 00:16:38,695 --> 00:16:40,946 Being who I am is just being Dalph. 359 00:16:40,946 --> 00:16:42,242 It's not about me being gay. 360 00:16:42,242 --> 00:16:43,500 It's about me just being Dalph. 361 00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:47,445 - I was so afraid to tell certain people, even this year. 362 00:16:47,445 --> 00:16:48,884 My job? 363 00:16:48,884 --> 00:16:50,933 I would never tell anybody at my job. 364 00:16:50,933 --> 00:16:52,663 But, I've gotten to the point now, 365 00:16:52,663 --> 00:16:56,191 my grandmother, who raised me, she means a great deal to me. 366 00:16:56,191 --> 00:16:57,578 She knows. 367 00:16:57,578 --> 00:16:58,946 I could care less who knows. 368 00:16:58,946 --> 00:17:01,724 I'm not gonna change my life to appease anybody. 369 00:17:01,724 --> 00:17:04,931 As long as I get the acceptance from my family, 370 00:17:04,931 --> 00:17:06,496 I'm fine. 371 00:17:06,496 --> 00:17:09,036 - Whether you're masculine, whether you're just feminine, 372 00:17:09,036 --> 00:17:11,640 you're not free until you're just for yourself. 373 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,057 (upbeat energetic music) 374 00:17:24,873 --> 00:17:29,040 - I always thought that being gay meant you were a pussy. 375 00:17:32,679 --> 00:17:35,717 I didn't want to be a pussy, you know? 376 00:17:35,717 --> 00:17:38,545 - [Narrator] Bil Yoelin plays for the Los Angeles Rebellion, 377 00:17:38,545 --> 00:17:40,305 one of about a dozen gay rugby teams 378 00:17:40,305 --> 00:17:42,388 across the United States. 379 00:17:43,763 --> 00:17:47,187 - It's provided a place for me to be comfortable 380 00:17:47,187 --> 00:17:49,752 but now we're like a brotherhood. 381 00:17:49,752 --> 00:17:50,684 It's great. 382 00:17:50,684 --> 00:17:54,399 I didn't come out until after I left home. 383 00:17:54,399 --> 00:17:57,300 So, I grew up in Des Moines, Iowa and 384 00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:59,561 I left Des Moines on my 19th birthday. 385 00:17:59,561 --> 00:18:01,819 I came to California to come to college and 386 00:18:01,819 --> 00:18:04,779 I didn't consider myself to be gay at all. 387 00:18:04,779 --> 00:18:08,222 For me, there wasn't any identity there of anyone who is gay 388 00:18:08,222 --> 00:18:09,515 It wasn't an option for me. 389 00:18:09,515 --> 00:18:13,402 It wasn't until afterwards in my 20s that I really felt 390 00:18:13,402 --> 00:18:18,005 like I came out and I had other masculine gay men 391 00:18:18,005 --> 00:18:22,115 that I was attracted to and that I had a camaraderie with, 392 00:18:22,115 --> 00:18:25,758 I could hang out with and be friends with. 393 00:18:25,758 --> 00:18:27,349 - We also have a lot of straight guys on our team. 394 00:18:27,349 --> 00:18:30,496 I'd say 40% of our team is straight and one thing that's 395 00:18:30,496 --> 00:18:33,659 been sort of eye-opening for me is I had to sort of 396 00:18:33,659 --> 00:18:35,469 get over some of my heterophobia. 397 00:18:35,469 --> 00:18:38,448 I assumed the worst of a lot of these guys. 398 00:18:38,448 --> 00:18:39,450 I thought, you know what? 399 00:18:39,450 --> 00:18:41,152 As soon as they find out we're a gay team, 400 00:18:41,152 --> 00:18:42,184 they're gonna be out of here and they were like, 401 00:18:42,184 --> 00:18:44,645 "I don't care where you put your dick. 402 00:18:44,645 --> 00:18:46,258 "Let's play, let's go, let's play some rugby." 403 00:18:46,258 --> 00:18:48,266 - A lot of good guys there, you know? 404 00:18:48,266 --> 00:18:50,150 I can bring the girlfriend, you know. 405 00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:52,981 I don't have to worry about all the drunk guys. 406 00:18:52,981 --> 00:18:54,314 A definite plus. 407 00:18:55,573 --> 00:18:57,748 - I'm straight as an arrow. 408 00:18:57,748 --> 00:19:01,379 I always have been but it just, I don't know, 409 00:19:01,379 --> 00:19:03,712 I guess I have an open mind. 410 00:19:04,965 --> 00:19:07,205 In a lot of ways, they're a lot less obnoxious than 411 00:19:07,205 --> 00:19:09,168 hanging out with a bunch of straight guys can be just 412 00:19:09,168 --> 00:19:10,925 crude and rude too, so, I don't know 413 00:19:10,925 --> 00:19:12,794 the difference is all that much. 414 00:19:12,794 --> 00:19:15,677 - I never have like an imaginative thought that 415 00:19:15,677 --> 00:19:17,307 gay guys played rugby. 416 00:19:17,307 --> 00:19:18,877 I had no idea. 417 00:19:18,877 --> 00:19:22,192 I never seen even a gay team in any sport, let alone rugby, 418 00:19:22,192 --> 00:19:26,297 so when I came out here, it was a little different but 419 00:19:26,297 --> 00:19:29,015 it definitely met my expectations. 420 00:19:29,015 --> 00:19:31,255 We play as well as any other team. 421 00:19:31,255 --> 00:19:33,051 - I think I had been conditioned for so long 422 00:19:33,051 --> 00:19:36,011 to think that the straight world is not gonna 423 00:19:36,011 --> 00:19:38,231 like me if I'm honest. 424 00:19:38,231 --> 00:19:40,115 I was taught a lesson. 425 00:19:40,115 --> 00:19:42,187 - [Narrator] Bil grew up in Colorado. 426 00:19:42,187 --> 00:19:45,961 The revelation that he was gay came from a superhero. 427 00:19:45,961 --> 00:19:49,553 - I particularly remember watching the Incredible Hulk on TV 428 00:19:49,553 --> 00:19:52,680 and thinking, yeah, that's what I like. 429 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,379 I think I was probably about six. 430 00:19:55,379 --> 00:19:58,467 The problem was I didn't know if it was really 431 00:19:58,467 --> 00:20:02,463 muscular guys that I liked, or green people. 432 00:20:02,463 --> 00:20:04,446 - [Narrator] But, as a teenager, Bil didn't know 433 00:20:04,446 --> 00:20:07,495 anyone who was gay except for who he saw on television. 434 00:20:07,495 --> 00:20:10,824 - I guess then it was Boy George or it was, you know, 435 00:20:10,824 --> 00:20:12,586 you see drag queens. 436 00:20:12,586 --> 00:20:16,099 - [Narrator] Bil stayed in the closet until his early 20s. 437 00:20:16,099 --> 00:20:17,377 - I had some girlfriends. 438 00:20:17,377 --> 00:20:21,427 Didn't really, you know, it didn't work out, obviously. 439 00:20:21,427 --> 00:20:25,625 All my friends were straight from high school and college 440 00:20:25,625 --> 00:20:30,031 but then, on the side, there was a club in my neighborhood. 441 00:20:30,031 --> 00:20:33,454 It was called The Metro and it was you know 442 00:20:33,454 --> 00:20:35,117 (imitating club music) 443 00:20:35,117 --> 00:20:38,869 It was sort of like, okay, this what I kind of expected. 444 00:20:38,869 --> 00:20:42,759 I kind of just didn't really feel like it was for me, 445 00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:44,273 but it was like, it's a hard pill. 446 00:20:44,273 --> 00:20:45,329 You gotta swallow it because this is you. 447 00:20:45,329 --> 00:20:47,124 So, I didn't feel like I fit in the gay world, 448 00:20:47,124 --> 00:20:48,846 I didn't feel like fit in the straight world. 449 00:20:48,846 --> 00:20:50,696 I think it's important for young gay guys to have 450 00:20:50,696 --> 00:20:53,212 that place where there's camaraderie without it being 451 00:20:53,212 --> 00:20:55,837 about body image or dancing. 452 00:20:55,837 --> 00:20:58,021 There's something really masculine about 453 00:20:58,021 --> 00:21:00,271 hanging out, being raucous. 454 00:21:02,364 --> 00:21:04,310 I relate to men better. 455 00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:08,764 I find them easier to joke around with and laugh. 456 00:21:08,764 --> 00:21:12,874 I have sort of a raunchy sense of humor. 457 00:21:12,874 --> 00:21:15,350 It doesn't always go so well with women. 458 00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:17,704 (chuckling) 459 00:21:17,704 --> 00:21:21,902 Sometimes, I will get people asking me if I'm straight, 460 00:21:21,902 --> 00:21:24,488 not believing that I'm gay. 461 00:21:24,488 --> 00:21:27,482 Women, sometimes, will hit on me. 462 00:21:27,482 --> 00:21:29,928 I'll be at a gay bar and someone will say, 463 00:21:29,928 --> 00:21:31,300 "You know, this is a gay bar," 464 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:32,908 and I'm like, "Yeah, I know." 465 00:21:32,908 --> 00:21:36,311 I'm enjoying the porn, you know? 466 00:21:36,311 --> 00:21:38,848 Even within the gay world, 467 00:21:38,848 --> 00:21:43,015 guys don't always realize there's a real variety of gay men. 468 00:21:46,154 --> 00:21:48,279 Being gay has made me more of a man. 469 00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:50,412 Certainly being honest with being gay 470 00:21:50,412 --> 00:21:51,965 has made me more of a man. 471 00:21:51,965 --> 00:21:54,462 Had I not been honest with myself, 472 00:21:54,462 --> 00:21:56,806 I think that I would have been what 473 00:21:56,806 --> 00:21:59,104 I would describe as a pussy. 474 00:21:59,104 --> 00:22:02,059 I decided not to do that, not to live in the closet 475 00:22:02,059 --> 00:22:03,848 til I'm 60 years old. 476 00:22:03,848 --> 00:22:06,828 So, yeah, definitely it's made me more of a man. 477 00:22:06,828 --> 00:22:10,245 (upbeat energetic music) 478 00:22:14,086 --> 00:22:16,115 - [Narrator] Gay men face the challenge of defining 479 00:22:16,115 --> 00:22:19,332 masculinity on their own terms. 480 00:22:19,332 --> 00:22:21,653 However, the issue of what it means to be a man 481 00:22:21,653 --> 00:22:23,903 can be a very divisive one. 482 00:22:26,152 --> 00:22:28,786 Dan Cullinane writes for a number of gay publications 483 00:22:28,786 --> 00:22:33,404 and recently completely a special report on gay masculinity. 484 00:22:33,404 --> 00:22:35,666 - When you say that someone is not masculine, 485 00:22:35,666 --> 00:22:37,928 you are essentially saying they are not a man, 486 00:22:37,928 --> 00:22:40,757 so I think that is why it is controversial. 487 00:22:40,757 --> 00:22:42,884 - [Narrator] Dan found a lot of recurring references 488 00:22:42,884 --> 00:22:44,834 on social sites catering to gay men. 489 00:22:44,834 --> 00:22:47,575 - You are seeing an increase in 490 00:22:47,575 --> 00:22:50,819 "I am a masculine, straight-acting man 491 00:22:50,819 --> 00:22:53,975 "and that is what I am interested in." 492 00:22:53,975 --> 00:22:57,173 There is also no femmes, no nellys, no queens. 493 00:22:57,173 --> 00:22:59,826 There did seem to be this sort of schism opening 494 00:22:59,826 --> 00:23:01,735 within the community. 495 00:23:01,735 --> 00:23:04,661 - [Narrator] Keith Harris is a professor of cultural studies 496 00:23:04,661 --> 00:23:07,646 at the University of California Riverside. 497 00:23:07,646 --> 00:23:09,658 - Even though you have these guys 498 00:23:09,658 --> 00:23:11,843 who are gay involved with men, 499 00:23:11,843 --> 00:23:15,199 one way of maintaining a certain kind of 500 00:23:15,199 --> 00:23:18,163 idealized masculinity is, indeed, 501 00:23:18,163 --> 00:23:21,996 distancing yourself from this effeminate male. 502 00:23:24,091 --> 00:23:26,115 - [Narrator] John Campbell teaches communication 503 00:23:26,115 --> 00:23:27,736 at the University of Minnesota. 504 00:23:27,736 --> 00:23:30,291 He's also written a book about gay sexuality online. 505 00:23:30,291 --> 00:23:33,997 - If you identify as masculine, you understand yourself 506 00:23:33,997 --> 00:23:37,663 as sort of fulfilling these traditional gender roles 507 00:23:37,663 --> 00:23:40,235 but that doesn't fit with your sexuality, 508 00:23:40,235 --> 00:23:43,196 you have a tough time reconciling the two 509 00:23:43,196 --> 00:23:45,250 and negotiating the two. 510 00:23:45,250 --> 00:23:48,657 - [Narrator] Don Romesburg is an archivist with 511 00:23:48,657 --> 00:23:52,561 the GLBT Historical Society in San Francisco. 512 00:23:52,561 --> 00:23:54,646 - Many people expect to come out into the gay community 513 00:23:54,646 --> 00:23:59,248 and find their gender expression, whatever it is, 514 00:23:59,248 --> 00:24:02,504 embraced and accepted and often you find just the contrary, 515 00:24:02,504 --> 00:24:05,176 that there's this mandate to be more masculine. 516 00:24:05,176 --> 00:24:06,813 - What does masculine mean? 517 00:24:06,813 --> 00:24:08,748 Who is masculine and who gets to determine 518 00:24:08,748 --> 00:24:10,444 what those traits are? 519 00:24:10,444 --> 00:24:12,820 Are they real or are they fetish or are they fashion? 520 00:24:12,820 --> 00:24:13,987 What are they? 521 00:24:17,152 --> 00:24:19,512 - [Narrator] Peter Nardi, a professor of sociology 522 00:24:19,512 --> 00:24:21,988 at Pitzer College has written books 523 00:24:21,988 --> 00:24:24,094 on masculine relationships. 524 00:24:24,094 --> 00:24:27,700 - Some people say masculinity is that what which men do 525 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:30,724 and whatever men do is considered masculine and so 526 00:24:30,724 --> 00:24:32,850 that can have a wider range. 527 00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:34,800 - [Narrator] However, there are some very traditional 528 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,390 ideals of what it means to be a man. 529 00:24:37,390 --> 00:24:39,480 Gregory Cason is a psychologist in Los Angeles. 530 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,892 - Masculinity is often only identified with strength 531 00:24:42,892 --> 00:24:45,684 and fortitude and conquest. 532 00:24:45,684 --> 00:24:48,664 For some people, it could be a hypersexuality and 533 00:24:48,664 --> 00:24:51,623 for some people it could be a very macho appearance 534 00:24:51,623 --> 00:24:54,202 or, for some people, being the head of the boardroom 535 00:24:54,202 --> 00:24:55,803 or being a leader in some way. 536 00:24:55,803 --> 00:24:57,597 - Media seems to reinforce this notion that to be 537 00:24:57,597 --> 00:25:00,832 masculine is to be heterosexual. 538 00:25:00,832 --> 00:25:03,676 The crisis of identity many gay men have is they may have 539 00:25:03,676 --> 00:25:07,306 attraction to other men and therefore, 540 00:25:07,306 --> 00:25:09,646 they think they can't be masculine 541 00:25:09,646 --> 00:25:10,992 and they wrestle with this. 542 00:25:10,992 --> 00:25:13,878 - I often look at the people who are more feminine 543 00:25:13,878 --> 00:25:16,785 and can not hide it as the ones who really learn early 544 00:25:16,785 --> 00:25:19,494 what it is to be a man. 545 00:25:19,494 --> 00:25:22,302 If they don't have sports ability, they can't pass. 546 00:25:22,302 --> 00:25:25,110 If they don't have the masculine voice, they can't pass. 547 00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:27,861 So, they're gonna be the ones who are subject to bullying. 548 00:25:27,861 --> 00:25:30,492 They are gonna be the ones who are marginalized 549 00:25:30,492 --> 00:25:33,555 and they learn what it is to stand alone and be strong. 550 00:25:33,555 --> 00:25:35,328 - My tattoo is sissy. 551 00:25:35,328 --> 00:25:38,157 It's my first and only tattoo. 552 00:25:38,157 --> 00:25:41,568 I wanted to make it something that made people think 553 00:25:41,568 --> 00:25:45,132 and show people that I can fight back and 554 00:25:45,132 --> 00:25:48,510 be myself and reclaim some things. 555 00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:51,042 - [Narrator] Mark Snyder has been fighting straight 556 00:25:51,042 --> 00:25:53,695 stereotypes of masculinity his entire life 557 00:25:53,695 --> 00:25:56,134 with sometimes dangerous consequences. 558 00:25:56,134 --> 00:25:59,586 - My femininity, especially when I wear my big sunglasses, 559 00:25:59,586 --> 00:26:01,728 in particular, I don't know why, 560 00:26:01,728 --> 00:26:05,707 it totally sparks a violent reaction in some straight men. 561 00:26:05,707 --> 00:26:08,728 They look at me and immediately they react violently 562 00:26:08,728 --> 00:26:12,238 and they yell and they get really angry at me. 563 00:26:12,238 --> 00:26:14,032 My boyfriend and I had beer bottles thrown at us 564 00:26:14,032 --> 00:26:15,453 just a couple weeks ago. 565 00:26:15,453 --> 00:26:17,058 And it's in San Francisco. 566 00:26:17,058 --> 00:26:20,101 - We were waiting for the bus and then, all of a sudden, 567 00:26:20,101 --> 00:26:20,934 this car zooms past us 568 00:26:20,934 --> 00:26:21,767 (glass shattering) 569 00:26:21,767 --> 00:26:23,193 and a beer bottle was thrown at us and 570 00:26:23,193 --> 00:26:26,716 then the guys were laughing, saying "faggots." 571 00:26:26,716 --> 00:26:29,332 - Sometimes, the more masculine, the more straight-acting 572 00:26:29,332 --> 00:26:32,472 gay guys are shocked to hear what we go through. 573 00:26:32,472 --> 00:26:34,537 Every day, I check myself, like am I safe, 574 00:26:34,537 --> 00:26:37,345 every moment that I step out of my house. 575 00:26:37,345 --> 00:26:41,512 I feel a sense of looking around to gauge my safety. 576 00:26:42,862 --> 00:26:44,718 - I feel like I have to watch my back 577 00:26:44,718 --> 00:26:46,003 more when we're together. 578 00:26:46,003 --> 00:26:47,459 We stand out more. 579 00:26:47,459 --> 00:26:49,242 But, we have each other. 580 00:26:49,242 --> 00:26:52,752 We support each other so whatever experience we handle, 581 00:26:52,752 --> 00:26:56,184 we experience it together and that brings us closer. 582 00:26:56,184 --> 00:26:57,781 - [Narrator] Mark works for an advocacy group 583 00:26:57,781 --> 00:27:00,162 in San Francisco helping gay and 584 00:27:00,162 --> 00:27:02,206 lesbian families adopt children. 585 00:27:02,206 --> 00:27:04,099 He grew up in rural Pennsylvania. 586 00:27:04,099 --> 00:27:05,716 - Most of the folks where I am from are farmers 587 00:27:05,716 --> 00:27:08,545 and right-wing Republicans and really into 588 00:27:08,545 --> 00:27:11,002 their fundamentalist right-wing churches. 589 00:27:11,002 --> 00:27:13,946 So, growing up there, I just felt different on 590 00:27:13,946 --> 00:27:16,756 a multitude of levels, not just because of my femininity. 591 00:27:16,756 --> 00:27:19,194 It was very, very challenging. 592 00:27:19,194 --> 00:27:22,427 I knew I was different even before kindergarten. 593 00:27:22,427 --> 00:27:23,932 I just never fit in. 594 00:27:23,932 --> 00:27:26,604 I always wanted to play with the Barbies or the girl toys. 595 00:27:26,604 --> 00:27:29,502 The other little boys were out being rambunctious 596 00:27:29,502 --> 00:27:31,847 or playing sport type things. 597 00:27:31,847 --> 00:27:34,441 Just my appearance was different and the way I talked 598 00:27:34,441 --> 00:27:37,602 was very feminine and expressive with emotion. 599 00:27:37,602 --> 00:27:40,312 I just didn't fit in at all to the rigid standards 600 00:27:40,312 --> 00:27:42,672 for what men and women do. 601 00:27:42,672 --> 00:27:45,226 My uncle always jokes that he knew I was gay 602 00:27:45,226 --> 00:27:47,176 when I was like, four years old, and I wouldn't stop 603 00:27:47,176 --> 00:27:50,197 watching the Bette Midler concert on tape. 604 00:27:50,197 --> 00:27:52,344 I would rewind and watch Bette Midler over and over. 605 00:27:52,344 --> 00:27:54,874 My uncle is gay and that's when he knew, 606 00:27:54,874 --> 00:27:56,884 long before I knew. 607 00:27:56,884 --> 00:28:00,436 By third grade, when I learned the word gay, 608 00:28:00,436 --> 00:28:03,244 I started to try those things to butch up a little bit 609 00:28:03,244 --> 00:28:06,306 because, at that point, the boys are starting to toughen up. 610 00:28:06,306 --> 00:28:08,488 I would play on the swings and play with the girls 611 00:28:08,488 --> 00:28:12,250 but I tried out for basketball and totally failed at that. 612 00:28:12,250 --> 00:28:14,710 Once seventh grade hit, that was high school, 613 00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:17,284 and then I was in building with all the older boys and 614 00:28:17,284 --> 00:28:20,518 they just immediately started harassing me. 615 00:28:20,518 --> 00:28:22,374 The first day of seventh grade, 616 00:28:22,374 --> 00:28:24,166 they started calling me faggot and queer, 617 00:28:24,166 --> 00:28:27,346 pushing me into my locker, kicking the back of my heels, 618 00:28:27,346 --> 00:28:29,550 spitting at me, throwing things. 619 00:28:29,550 --> 00:28:32,961 I feared for my life a lot of times in high school, 620 00:28:32,961 --> 00:28:35,628 not just because I was suicidal, 621 00:28:37,486 --> 00:28:41,890 but people were threatening to kill me all the time. 622 00:28:41,890 --> 00:28:45,478 I would get death threats in my locker, on my locker, 623 00:28:45,478 --> 00:28:49,373 carved in my desk, under the windshield wiper of my car. 624 00:28:49,373 --> 00:28:52,807 People would yell things and just be really violent 625 00:28:52,807 --> 00:28:54,756 and tell me they wanted to rape me and 626 00:28:54,756 --> 00:28:57,334 tell me they wanted to fuck me up. 627 00:28:57,334 --> 00:28:58,816 - [Narrator] Mark said he survived those challenging years 628 00:28:58,816 --> 00:29:01,432 with help from gay support groups on the internet. 629 00:29:01,432 --> 00:29:04,510 Mark went to school at the University of Massachusetts 630 00:29:04,510 --> 00:29:07,614 and started his own website, QueerToday, 631 00:29:07,614 --> 00:29:09,930 to help other kids facing discrimination for being gay. 632 00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:12,466 - I'm really proud of being a sissy now that 633 00:29:12,466 --> 00:29:14,146 I'm not shameful about it. 634 00:29:14,146 --> 00:29:15,706 You're in the area now, right? 635 00:29:15,706 --> 00:29:17,422 I guess I've always felt a little fire burning in me, 636 00:29:17,422 --> 00:29:19,484 keeping me going. 637 00:29:19,484 --> 00:29:21,769 Feeling like I'm making a difference in other people's lives 638 00:29:21,769 --> 00:29:24,343 is the only thing that really kept me going through that 639 00:29:24,343 --> 00:29:26,704 and knowing that once I got out, 640 00:29:26,704 --> 00:29:28,165 I could help other people like me because around me, 641 00:29:28,165 --> 00:29:30,780 I saw people who weren't making it and 642 00:29:30,780 --> 00:29:33,276 the suicide rates will prove that, 643 00:29:33,276 --> 00:29:36,396 even in Massachusetts, which is like, super-liberal, 644 00:29:36,396 --> 00:29:38,716 the gay kids are five times more likely to kill themselves. 645 00:29:38,716 --> 00:29:42,205 I'm lucky to have parents who supported me and 646 00:29:42,205 --> 00:29:44,566 a whole family that loved me and supported me and 647 00:29:44,566 --> 00:29:46,573 without that, I would have definitely killed myself. 648 00:29:46,573 --> 00:29:50,255 (gentle orchestral music) 649 00:29:50,255 --> 00:29:52,600 - [Narrator] Trevor Hoppe also suffered abuse from his 650 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,295 classmates growing up and it lingers with him to this day. 651 00:29:54,295 --> 00:29:57,549 - I still live with, on the one hand, 652 00:29:57,549 --> 00:30:01,838 trying to express my effeminate self and on the other hand, 653 00:30:01,838 --> 00:30:05,428 still feeling this thing in the back of my head that says 654 00:30:05,428 --> 00:30:06,638 "Don't do it. 655 00:30:06,638 --> 00:30:08,725 "You're supposed to act like a man." 656 00:30:08,725 --> 00:30:11,106 - [Narrator] Trevor was raised in North Carolina. 657 00:30:11,106 --> 00:30:12,588 He has fond memories of grade school. 658 00:30:12,588 --> 00:30:14,940 - I remember being sort of a happy-go-lucky, 659 00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:18,454 skipping down the hallway, singing kind of boy, 660 00:30:18,454 --> 00:30:20,635 always with a smile on my face. 661 00:30:20,635 --> 00:30:23,040 - [Narrator] But, when he entered middle school, 662 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,678 things changed. 663 00:30:24,678 --> 00:30:26,644 - From, you know, kicking the shit out of me in the hallway 664 00:30:26,644 --> 00:30:30,388 to throwing rocks at my head to being labeled as a faggot 665 00:30:30,388 --> 00:30:33,221 before I even knew that I was gay. 666 00:30:34,330 --> 00:30:37,954 I didn't know that boys were supposed to sort of act tough, 667 00:30:37,954 --> 00:30:41,485 keep a straight face and beat other guys up. 668 00:30:41,485 --> 00:30:44,392 I didn't know how to be a boy, really. 669 00:30:44,392 --> 00:30:46,475 I just knew how to be me. 670 00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:50,767 There was a short amount of time where 671 00:30:50,767 --> 00:30:52,093 I really just, I shut down. 672 00:30:52,093 --> 00:30:53,497 I stopped smiling. 673 00:30:53,497 --> 00:30:55,972 I stopped skipping down the halls. 674 00:30:55,972 --> 00:30:58,530 I just sort of shuffled from class to class. 675 00:30:58,530 --> 00:31:00,205 - [Narrator] Trevor said one day, 676 00:31:00,205 --> 00:31:02,385 he just quit trying to play it straight. 677 00:31:02,385 --> 00:31:05,842 Going from wearing Abercrombie and Fitch to try to fit in 678 00:31:05,842 --> 00:31:10,402 to wearing four-inch platform heels and spiky orange hair. 679 00:31:10,402 --> 00:31:12,836 If I was going to be a faggot no matter what I did, 680 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:15,961 I might as well be all the faggot that I could be. 681 00:31:15,961 --> 00:31:18,301 I was going to get called a faggot whether I tried to 682 00:31:18,301 --> 00:31:20,136 hide it or whether I slammed it in their face and 683 00:31:20,136 --> 00:31:21,130 it turned out that when I slammed it in their face, 684 00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:25,516 everybody shut the fuck up because they were too scared 685 00:31:25,516 --> 00:31:27,261 to say anything because I looked like I would cut a bitch. 686 00:31:27,261 --> 00:31:28,094 I mean, you know? 687 00:31:28,094 --> 00:31:28,927 (chuckling) 688 00:31:28,927 --> 00:31:31,961 - [Narrator] After graduating from Chapel Hill University, 689 00:31:31,961 --> 00:31:34,733 Trevor decided to explore the issues of masculinity 690 00:31:34,733 --> 00:31:37,832 from a self-described queer perspective. 691 00:31:37,832 --> 00:31:39,746 He sought out essays and experiences from 692 00:31:39,746 --> 00:31:42,044 a wide range of gay men who did not 693 00:31:42,044 --> 00:31:45,164 fit into traditional stereotypes of manhood. 694 00:31:45,164 --> 00:31:46,589 He launched a website, 695 00:31:46,589 --> 00:31:47,972 Beyond Masculinity: 696 00:31:47,972 --> 00:31:51,134 Essays by Queer Men on Gender and Politics. 697 00:31:51,134 --> 00:31:53,900 - There was nothing really out there about how to be 698 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:56,594 a queer man, what that could look like, 699 00:31:56,594 --> 00:32:00,374 how to be a progressive, feminist, thoughtful queer guy. 700 00:32:00,374 --> 00:32:04,706 I wanted to refute a little bit the idea that everybody 701 00:32:04,706 --> 00:32:08,642 who looks like me is sort of dumb, out of it, 702 00:32:08,642 --> 00:32:12,896 and really only into fashion, which is bullshit. 703 00:32:12,896 --> 00:32:16,832 I just wanted to show that there are many different 704 00:32:16,832 --> 00:32:19,796 kinds of us and we all have particular kinds of struggles 705 00:32:19,796 --> 00:32:22,877 and issues but we're all thriving. 706 00:32:22,877 --> 00:32:25,703 - [Narrator] Trevor is working on a PhD at 707 00:32:25,703 --> 00:32:27,900 the University of Michigan in Sociology. 708 00:32:27,900 --> 00:32:30,124 He plans to teach but Trevor has already 709 00:32:30,124 --> 00:32:31,993 learned a lot about himself. 710 00:32:31,993 --> 00:32:35,216 - The latest phase has been really trying to question 711 00:32:35,216 --> 00:32:38,716 the bitch inside me that I learned through 712 00:32:39,595 --> 00:32:42,002 high school as a defense mechanism but 713 00:32:42,002 --> 00:32:44,826 I carried with me into college. 714 00:32:44,826 --> 00:32:48,066 I feel like many gay men don that mask as a way 715 00:32:48,066 --> 00:32:52,066 to prevent themselves from being hurt by others. 716 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,510 I think the unfortunate thing is that we then carry that 717 00:32:56,510 --> 00:33:00,677 into our communities and turn our ammunition on each other. 718 00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:07,957 ♫ I sleep with one eye open 719 00:33:09,281 --> 00:33:14,098 ♫ You make love with one foot out the door 720 00:33:14,098 --> 00:33:18,461 ♫ I must really like getting my heart broken 721 00:33:18,461 --> 00:33:22,378 ♫ I keep jumping back for more 722 00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:26,906 - It's a way to embrace both the sensitive side of myself 723 00:33:26,906 --> 00:33:31,220 and the masculine rock inside of myself in one package. 724 00:33:31,220 --> 00:33:34,356 - [Narrator] It took Brent Calderwood many years to figure 725 00:33:34,356 --> 00:33:37,362 out an expression of himself that was uniquely his. 726 00:33:37,362 --> 00:33:38,980 Just like many other gay boys, 727 00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:42,448 he faced a cruel childhood for not fitting in. 728 00:33:42,448 --> 00:33:43,934 - Well, I was a little sissy-boy. 729 00:33:43,934 --> 00:33:47,678 I had braces and glasses and was overweight. 730 00:33:47,678 --> 00:33:49,899 I think I made an easy target. 731 00:33:49,899 --> 00:33:53,097 - [Narrator] Brent drew strength from his artistic talents. 732 00:33:53,097 --> 00:33:55,354 In addition to his singing and songwriting, 733 00:33:55,354 --> 00:33:58,614 Brent became a prolific writer and graphic artist. 734 00:33:58,614 --> 00:34:02,145 In 1993, at the age of 15, he drew a nationally distributed 735 00:34:02,145 --> 00:34:04,698 comic strip about his coming out. 736 00:34:04,698 --> 00:34:07,995 - I realized that it was a great way to educate kids 737 00:34:07,995 --> 00:34:11,348 because a lot of kids would read the piece and 738 00:34:11,348 --> 00:34:14,448 not even realize that it was about a gay theme and 739 00:34:14,448 --> 00:34:17,667 then suddenly, halfway through, they'd already be hooked. 740 00:34:17,667 --> 00:34:21,042 The media pounced on that because, back in '92, '93, 741 00:34:21,042 --> 00:34:24,568 there weren't a lot of 16 year old who could articulate, 742 00:34:24,568 --> 00:34:26,247 who were out at all, 743 00:34:26,247 --> 00:34:29,174 let alone could articulate what that experience was like. 744 00:34:29,174 --> 00:34:31,530 - [Narrator] Brent's sexuality attracted even more attention 745 00:34:31,530 --> 00:34:33,308 when he shook up one of the most venerable 746 00:34:33,308 --> 00:34:34,962 institutions of high school. 747 00:34:34,962 --> 00:34:36,912 - I woke up and there I was on the front page of 748 00:34:36,912 --> 00:34:39,215 The Oakland Tribune and the first line was 749 00:34:39,215 --> 00:34:41,670 "Brent Calderwood, 17, plans to take 750 00:34:41,670 --> 00:34:44,166 "a male date to his senior prom." 751 00:34:44,166 --> 00:34:47,598 That just really upped the ante in terms of harassment, 752 00:34:47,598 --> 00:34:50,739 getting death threats and people yelling at me, 753 00:34:50,739 --> 00:34:55,317 not only in class and in hallways, but also adults in town. 754 00:34:55,317 --> 00:34:58,346 - [Narrator] Brent is now studying at the University 755 00:34:58,346 --> 00:34:59,594 of California Berkeley. 756 00:34:59,594 --> 00:35:02,672 He plans to become a counselor helping gay youth. 757 00:35:02,672 --> 00:35:06,438 - Whether we're effeminate or masculine by cultural standard 758 00:35:06,438 --> 00:35:09,890 we all grow up as men, and especially as gay men, 759 00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:13,224 learning to look through a magnifying glass at 760 00:35:13,224 --> 00:35:15,171 how we're performing masculinity. 761 00:35:15,171 --> 00:35:18,585 There's a potential feeling that we have of I failed 762 00:35:18,585 --> 00:35:21,704 and then the irony is that once we come out, 763 00:35:21,704 --> 00:35:24,612 rather than create this brave new world or whatever, 764 00:35:24,612 --> 00:35:28,220 we turn to those high school dynamics of trying 765 00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:29,403 to prove our masculinity. 766 00:35:29,403 --> 00:35:32,570 (school bell ringing) 767 00:35:37,663 --> 00:35:40,581 - My masculinity was never a problem for me. 768 00:35:40,581 --> 00:35:43,658 I never thought that I was not masculine. 769 00:35:43,658 --> 00:35:46,406 I always knew I was a pretty masculine guy. 770 00:35:46,406 --> 00:35:50,133 - [Narrator] Wes Adams works as a Teamster truck driver 771 00:35:50,133 --> 00:35:53,155 on film and television sets in Hollywood 772 00:35:53,155 --> 00:35:55,072 and around the country. 773 00:35:56,353 --> 00:35:59,515 Wes met a lot of celebrities over the years. 774 00:35:59,515 --> 00:36:01,561 He also played a part in the Academy Award-winning 775 00:36:01,561 --> 00:36:04,038 Western epic, Dances With Wolves, starring Kevin Costner. 776 00:36:04,038 --> 00:36:07,019 In the film, Wes stars as an unlucky settler 777 00:36:07,019 --> 00:36:08,686 attacked by Indians. 778 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,696 - I work with a different crew on just about every 779 00:36:12,696 --> 00:36:14,001 project I work on. 780 00:36:14,001 --> 00:36:16,029 They talk about their families and their wives 781 00:36:16,029 --> 00:36:17,901 and their kids and for example, 782 00:36:17,901 --> 00:36:19,190 this show that I just started. 783 00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:20,614 This guy says, 784 00:36:20,614 --> 00:36:21,586 "Hey, Wes, are you married?" 785 00:36:21,586 --> 00:36:22,565 And I said no, and he goes, 786 00:36:22,565 --> 00:36:23,656 "Do you have kids?" 787 00:36:23,656 --> 00:36:24,687 And I said, no and I said, 788 00:36:24,687 --> 00:36:25,878 "I'm gay and I've been in a relationship with 789 00:36:25,878 --> 00:36:27,906 "my partner for 10 years." 790 00:36:27,906 --> 00:36:31,416 And that usually takes people aback a little bit 791 00:36:31,416 --> 00:36:33,188 and they always say, 792 00:36:33,188 --> 00:36:35,281 "Oh, I never would have known in a million years." 793 00:36:35,281 --> 00:36:36,759 And I'm like, "What is gay to you?" 794 00:36:36,759 --> 00:36:38,220 You know? 795 00:36:38,220 --> 00:36:40,501 - [Narrator] Wes did not come out until his late 20s. 796 00:36:40,501 --> 00:36:42,300 - I thought being gay was a bad thing because 797 00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,217 all I'd ever heard was predators, 798 00:36:45,217 --> 00:36:48,730 men lurking around in parks, preying on children. 799 00:36:48,730 --> 00:36:53,241 If someone was homosexual, it was deviant behavior 800 00:36:53,241 --> 00:36:56,336 and that's just the way it was. 801 00:36:56,336 --> 00:36:58,836 - [Announcer] Public restrooms can often be a hangout 802 00:36:58,836 --> 00:37:00,708 for the homosexual. 803 00:37:00,708 --> 00:37:02,694 Bobby and his friends hadn't noticed the man 804 00:37:02,694 --> 00:37:06,280 who had been in the restroom when they changed. 805 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,806 (suspenseful music) 806 00:37:07,806 --> 00:37:10,548 One never knows when the homosexual is about. 807 00:37:10,548 --> 00:37:12,891 He may appear normal and it may be too late when 808 00:37:12,891 --> 00:37:15,408 you discover he is mentally ill. 809 00:37:15,408 --> 00:37:19,350 - As a kid, we go through so much mental agony. 810 00:37:19,350 --> 00:37:23,484 We start having these feelings that we're told are wrong 811 00:37:23,484 --> 00:37:27,165 and we don't know how to deal with them and 812 00:37:27,165 --> 00:37:29,735 we fight it with every fiber that we have and 813 00:37:29,735 --> 00:37:33,577 try to do whatever we can to be straight and 814 00:37:33,577 --> 00:37:36,313 pray to God to make us straight. 815 00:37:36,313 --> 00:37:37,695 We go through it alone. 816 00:37:37,695 --> 00:37:40,520 There's nobody to talk to and as a child, that's horrible. 817 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,442 The reason I didn't come out was because I was worried 818 00:37:44,442 --> 00:37:47,778 about how I'd be perceived by my co-workers, 819 00:37:47,778 --> 00:37:50,139 my family, my friends, so I just kind of lived 820 00:37:50,139 --> 00:37:52,323 in my own shell for the longest time. 821 00:37:52,323 --> 00:37:55,089 After I came out myself, I started going out and 822 00:37:55,089 --> 00:37:57,273 meeting people and realizing that there are 823 00:37:57,273 --> 00:38:00,513 tons of guys just like me out there. 824 00:38:00,513 --> 00:38:03,513 Who is it to deny anybody happiness? 825 00:38:06,108 --> 00:38:09,306 You're gonna be who you're gonna be and if you're not, 826 00:38:09,306 --> 00:38:10,904 you're not happy. 827 00:38:10,904 --> 00:38:12,780 I think you see drag queens now and that's why 828 00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:15,056 they're so strong mentally. 829 00:38:15,056 --> 00:38:17,418 They don't take shit from anybody. 830 00:38:17,418 --> 00:38:19,914 And the queeny guys, they don't take shit from anybody 831 00:38:19,914 --> 00:38:22,218 because they had to deal with it. 832 00:38:22,218 --> 00:38:23,551 I could hide it. 833 00:38:25,743 --> 00:38:29,430 (bluesy guitar music) 834 00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:30,513 - This is Ty. 835 00:38:35,436 --> 00:38:36,769 Isn't that nice? 836 00:38:37,852 --> 00:38:39,471 (chuckling) 837 00:38:39,471 --> 00:38:42,980 So, Ty and I would go to different events, 838 00:38:42,980 --> 00:38:47,193 any corporate events that would hire us and 839 00:38:47,193 --> 00:38:50,157 we would walk around and people would want to 840 00:38:50,157 --> 00:38:51,990 come up and touch him. 841 00:38:54,879 --> 00:38:56,205 They fear falling so the moment you let go of them, 842 00:38:56,205 --> 00:38:57,786 they start to freak out so the more secure, 843 00:38:57,786 --> 00:38:59,703 that masculine feeling, 844 00:39:02,169 --> 00:39:05,586 they become more comfortable and relaxed. 845 00:39:09,628 --> 00:39:11,551 - [Narrator] David Aguilar has used his physical prowess 846 00:39:11,551 --> 00:39:13,677 to his advantage over the years. 847 00:39:13,677 --> 00:39:18,534 - Here's a picture of me on one of the posters for one of 848 00:39:18,534 --> 00:39:22,393 the events that happened in San Francisco a long time ago. 849 00:39:22,393 --> 00:39:26,022 This was called Superball and I was the cover boy 850 00:39:26,022 --> 00:39:27,211 for the performance. 851 00:39:27,211 --> 00:39:28,850 I get a lot of people saying, 852 00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:31,190 "Now, you're what masculine is" and er-er-er. 853 00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:32,647 Like, thank you. 854 00:39:32,647 --> 00:39:35,533 - [Narrator] David also brings brains to the brawn. 855 00:39:35,533 --> 00:39:39,048 He's a successful IT consultant in San Francisco. 856 00:39:39,048 --> 00:39:43,161 - I had really interesting feelings as a young boy. 857 00:39:43,161 --> 00:39:45,227 I've always known that I was attracted to 858 00:39:45,227 --> 00:39:47,279 the masculine energy. 859 00:39:47,279 --> 00:39:49,227 When I was 13 years old, people would ask me who my role 860 00:39:49,227 --> 00:39:51,972 model was and I didn't know what a role model meant to me. 861 00:39:51,972 --> 00:39:54,960 I used to walk to and from school. 862 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,398 On my way home, I would hear this tapping and 863 00:39:57,398 --> 00:40:00,752 I walked into this studio and these girls were tap dancing 864 00:40:00,752 --> 00:40:03,503 and the teacher actually had asked me, did I like dancing. 865 00:40:03,503 --> 00:40:05,120 I didn't know. 866 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,830 I never paid for a dance lesson in my life because of being 867 00:40:07,830 --> 00:40:11,923 a man in ballet, it's a rarity so they'll take boys 868 00:40:11,923 --> 00:40:13,992 whenever they can get them. 869 00:40:13,992 --> 00:40:17,130 I think that it helped me with growing up without 870 00:40:17,130 --> 00:40:21,968 a solid male influence in my life because my dad and my mom 871 00:40:21,968 --> 00:40:23,898 divorced when I was three years old. 872 00:40:23,898 --> 00:40:25,478 So, I kind of grew up basically raising myself. 873 00:40:25,478 --> 00:40:28,908 The ballet, the structure, the repetitiveness, 874 00:40:28,908 --> 00:40:33,003 the security that it gave me inside myself, 875 00:40:33,003 --> 00:40:36,611 it actually helped me install that in my life. 876 00:40:36,611 --> 00:40:40,319 So, I just basically took the discipline that I had from 877 00:40:40,319 --> 00:40:44,486 the ballet and applied that into my working-out schedule. 878 00:40:50,336 --> 00:40:52,700 When people called me Muscle Boy, I was shocked. 879 00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:53,735 I'm not a muscle boy. 880 00:40:53,735 --> 00:40:56,575 I don't think I'm a muscle boy. 881 00:40:56,575 --> 00:41:00,534 I got a ton more attention and that wasn't, again, 882 00:41:00,534 --> 00:41:02,815 my driver to working out harder. 883 00:41:02,815 --> 00:41:04,574 It was, again, just the discipline. 884 00:41:04,574 --> 00:41:08,300 I don't believe that muscles equal masculine. 885 00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:12,960 I think masculine is in the mind of whoever possesses it. 886 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,539 I would describe masculine as a very safe, secure energy 887 00:41:17,539 --> 00:41:21,456 and when I'm in the presence of the person that 888 00:41:23,699 --> 00:41:26,417 I love and I'm with, I feel completely safe with that person 889 00:41:26,417 --> 00:41:29,553 and to feel that is the most amazing experience. 890 00:41:29,553 --> 00:41:33,470 ("Situation" by Ex-Boyfriends) 891 00:41:47,846 --> 00:41:50,535 ♫ Sell me your arm 892 00:41:50,535 --> 00:41:53,732 ♫ It's an emergency 893 00:41:53,732 --> 00:41:56,426 ♫ You're waving your arms 894 00:41:56,426 --> 00:41:58,064 - [Narrator] Indie rock band, Ex-Boyfriends, 895 00:41:58,064 --> 00:42:00,659 was bound by some old stereotypes as it tried 896 00:42:00,659 --> 00:42:03,270 to break into the music industry. 897 00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:06,312 ♫ We've seen this all before 898 00:42:06,312 --> 00:42:09,317 - It's just this cultural mindset that being gay 899 00:42:09,317 --> 00:42:12,860 means you're feminine and feminine people can't rock, 900 00:42:12,860 --> 00:42:16,238 (upbeat pop rock music) 901 00:42:16,238 --> 00:42:19,067 which is one of the most ridiculous things 902 00:42:19,067 --> 00:42:20,887 I think I've ever encountered. 903 00:42:20,887 --> 00:42:23,357 - Maybe it has to do with the fact, like, 904 00:42:23,357 --> 00:42:25,463 music critics, the majority of them are 905 00:42:25,463 --> 00:42:27,038 just like white, straight males. 906 00:42:27,038 --> 00:42:29,535 They always have to bring up, you know, 907 00:42:29,535 --> 00:42:30,512 "This gay rock group is actually pretty good!" 908 00:42:30,512 --> 00:42:31,485 - Right. 909 00:42:31,485 --> 00:42:34,368 - I'm like, well, we're just a group. 910 00:42:34,368 --> 00:42:37,701 (upbeat pop rock music) 911 00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:43,460 - They have this cultural mindset that if you're up there 912 00:42:43,460 --> 00:42:46,814 doing this shreddy guitar solo or beating the hell 913 00:42:46,814 --> 00:42:49,565 out of a drum kit, you're manly. 914 00:42:49,565 --> 00:42:52,898 (upbeat pop rock music) 915 00:42:57,500 --> 00:43:01,047 I don't think you see a lot of gay men in the world of 916 00:43:01,047 --> 00:43:03,917 rock music becoming really famous. 917 00:43:03,917 --> 00:43:05,748 We all knew George Michael was gay for years. 918 00:43:05,748 --> 00:43:08,610 We all knew The Pet Shop Boys were gay for years, 919 00:43:08,610 --> 00:43:10,797 and Michael Stipe from R.E.M. but it's this thing 920 00:43:10,797 --> 00:43:12,670 that gets danced around for so long. 921 00:43:12,670 --> 00:43:13,761 "Oh, we're polysexual," or 922 00:43:13,761 --> 00:43:16,018 "we just don't like to talk about it." 923 00:43:16,018 --> 00:43:20,059 I think that's managers and representatives being like, 924 00:43:20,059 --> 00:43:24,017 you know what, you'll have more mass popularity if this is 925 00:43:24,017 --> 00:43:27,517 something that's never concretely defined. 926 00:43:31,553 --> 00:43:32,893 - [Narrator] Still, with each guitar riff, 927 00:43:32,893 --> 00:43:35,508 Ex-Boyfriends is making headway for gay rockers and 928 00:43:35,508 --> 00:43:38,254 cracking some of those old stereotypes. 929 00:43:38,254 --> 00:43:40,480 The group released two successful CDs, is working on a third 930 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,647 and has a new music video. 931 00:43:44,593 --> 00:43:46,974 Ex-Boyfriends was also named Best Indie Rock Band 932 00:43:46,974 --> 00:43:51,046 by readers of the San Francisco Bay Area Guardian newspaper. 933 00:43:51,046 --> 00:43:52,783 - And it was Best Gay Indie Band or 934 00:43:52,783 --> 00:43:54,322 Best Queer Band or anything. 935 00:43:54,322 --> 00:43:56,239 It was Best Indie Band. 936 00:43:57,132 --> 00:44:01,072 It's nice to just share that without the qualifier. 937 00:44:01,072 --> 00:44:04,489 (light orchestral music) 938 00:44:09,766 --> 00:44:12,168 - [Narrator] The issue of masculinity stirs passions, 939 00:44:12,168 --> 00:44:13,687 not only in the gay community but 940 00:44:13,687 --> 00:44:16,187 in the straight world as well. 941 00:44:17,353 --> 00:44:19,636 Larry Gross is head of the School of Communication at 942 00:44:19,636 --> 00:44:21,741 the University of Southern California. 943 00:44:21,741 --> 00:44:24,706 - It's a hot-button issue in American culture. 944 00:44:24,706 --> 00:44:26,612 This is a culture in which men seem 945 00:44:26,612 --> 00:44:30,420 very concerned about issues of masculinity. 946 00:44:30,420 --> 00:44:32,838 Gay men aren't part of that culture. 947 00:44:32,838 --> 00:44:34,944 - [Narrator] However, the definition of masculinity 948 00:44:34,944 --> 00:44:36,713 can change over time. 949 00:44:36,713 --> 00:44:38,548 - There are different ways that people enact 950 00:44:38,548 --> 00:44:40,930 what it means to be masculine. 951 00:44:40,930 --> 00:44:43,930 Historically as well as contemporary times, 952 00:44:43,930 --> 00:44:45,802 men were often seen as very gallant, 953 00:44:45,802 --> 00:44:48,281 would have very intimate friends like 954 00:44:48,281 --> 00:44:50,446 Jonathan and David in the Bible or Achilles and Patroclus 955 00:44:50,446 --> 00:44:54,444 in the Iliad and they would go into battle together. 956 00:44:54,444 --> 00:44:57,778 Men would stand side by side to deal with their friendships, 957 00:44:57,778 --> 00:44:59,901 to deal with their intimacy. 958 00:44:59,901 --> 00:45:02,692 Certainly, a lot of notions that we have about masculine 959 00:45:02,692 --> 00:45:03,685 and feminine have historically been tied up in class. 960 00:45:03,685 --> 00:45:07,366 The notion of the working class was seen as 961 00:45:07,366 --> 00:45:10,984 more masculine, more rugged, more brutish where 962 00:45:10,984 --> 00:45:14,907 upper class was more refined and in some ways 963 00:45:14,907 --> 00:45:16,990 more feminine and demure. 964 00:45:20,411 --> 00:45:22,828 You travel to some Mediterranean cultures, 965 00:45:22,828 --> 00:45:25,652 or some Latin cultures and even some Asian cultures 966 00:45:25,652 --> 00:45:28,055 and you notice that men, heterosexual men, 967 00:45:28,055 --> 00:45:30,353 will walk sometimes arm-in-arm. 968 00:45:30,353 --> 00:45:31,700 They will touch each other more, 969 00:45:31,700 --> 00:45:33,260 they will stand closer to each other. 970 00:45:33,260 --> 00:45:34,683 - A man will kiss another man on each cheek. 971 00:45:34,683 --> 00:45:36,536 - Proof again that it's a cultural difference, 972 00:45:36,536 --> 00:45:41,081 not something that's genetic, biological, or DNA related. 973 00:45:41,081 --> 00:45:43,744 That it has something to do with what the culture 974 00:45:43,744 --> 00:45:46,052 allows people to do. 975 00:45:46,052 --> 00:45:48,351 It's really within the United States we have 976 00:45:48,351 --> 00:45:51,590 a very rigid model of masculinity. 977 00:45:51,590 --> 00:45:55,823 Rugged individualism was about conquering the West, 978 00:45:55,823 --> 00:46:00,206 being stoic, being triumphant, facing these kind of odds. 979 00:46:00,206 --> 00:46:02,936 Just two men hugging, utterly non-sexual, 980 00:46:02,936 --> 00:46:04,730 just an expression of affection, 981 00:46:04,730 --> 00:46:07,715 would have been considered unmasculine. 982 00:46:07,715 --> 00:46:11,345 However, it does seem to have brought it out a bit. 983 00:46:11,345 --> 00:46:14,345 We have a bit more space in terms of 984 00:46:14,345 --> 00:46:15,770 what it means to be masculine. 985 00:46:15,770 --> 00:46:17,351 Now, you can express certain emotions although 986 00:46:17,351 --> 00:46:19,394 there is still the notion that you're supposed to be strong. 987 00:46:19,394 --> 00:46:22,432 - Sports figures are on TV and they cry over some problem 988 00:46:22,432 --> 00:46:25,109 or some loss that they've had. 989 00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:27,604 That's also changed. 990 00:46:27,604 --> 00:46:29,298 Sports figures being allowed to cry? 991 00:46:29,298 --> 00:46:31,157 Many people argue that today, 992 00:46:31,157 --> 00:46:33,122 the heterosexual man, who is very emotional, 993 00:46:33,122 --> 00:46:35,603 who acts as if he were more sensitive, 994 00:46:35,603 --> 00:46:39,148 is more tuned to his clothing, to his hairstyles, 995 00:46:39,148 --> 00:46:41,670 has been labeled the metrosexual. 996 00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:44,066 There have also been words called the man-date, 997 00:46:44,066 --> 00:46:46,839 or the bromance, for guys who are really 998 00:46:46,839 --> 00:46:50,193 close to one another, heterosexual guys who get together, 999 00:46:50,193 --> 00:46:52,923 talk about their lives, what their emotions are. 1000 00:46:52,923 --> 00:46:56,511 So, something has happened in our society in the last 1001 00:46:56,511 --> 00:46:59,728 20 to 30 years that has changed the definition of 1002 00:46:59,728 --> 00:47:02,730 what it means to be masculine and one of those things 1003 00:47:02,730 --> 00:47:05,299 that it demonstrates is that masculine is not 1004 00:47:05,299 --> 00:47:08,933 a fixed concept, that it's constantly variable 1005 00:47:08,933 --> 00:47:10,933 and constantly changing. 1006 00:47:15,219 --> 00:47:17,148 - [Narrator] The concept of what it means to be a man 1007 00:47:17,148 --> 00:47:19,815 may evolve over time, however, there is no more iconic 1008 00:47:19,815 --> 00:47:23,424 figure of masculinity than the cowboy. 1009 00:47:23,424 --> 00:47:25,350 - The thing that I love the most about being 1010 00:47:25,350 --> 00:47:27,967 out on the horse is the fact that you really 1011 00:47:27,967 --> 00:47:31,634 have to have communication with that animal. 1012 00:47:31,634 --> 00:47:34,932 (upbeat country guitar music) 1013 00:47:34,932 --> 00:47:38,630 The definition of a barrel horse is a controlled runaway. 1014 00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:41,790 If that horse is running at the speed of some 1015 00:47:41,790 --> 00:47:43,954 40 to 60 miles an hour, 1016 00:47:43,954 --> 00:47:46,002 if you are not in tune with that animal and 1017 00:47:46,002 --> 00:47:48,028 that horse decides to run away with you, 1018 00:47:48,028 --> 00:47:50,194 there's nothing that can stop that horse. 1019 00:47:50,194 --> 00:47:52,690 That is a huge, huge factor when it comes to training 1020 00:47:52,690 --> 00:47:55,087 these horses and competing on them and 1021 00:47:55,087 --> 00:47:56,646 that's what I love so much. 1022 00:47:56,646 --> 00:47:57,936 - [Narrator] James and his partner, Matt, 1023 00:47:57,936 --> 00:47:59,587 could be described as the real-life 1024 00:47:59,587 --> 00:48:01,015 Brokeback Mountain cowboys. 1025 00:48:01,015 --> 00:48:03,724 The couple own a ranch outside Scottsdale, Arizona. 1026 00:48:03,724 --> 00:48:07,373 - We have 15 horses between myself and my partner, Matthew, 1027 00:48:07,373 --> 00:48:09,772 and we have two babies on the way. 1028 00:48:09,772 --> 00:48:13,516 We have six dogs, we have cats, fish, you name it. 1029 00:48:13,516 --> 00:48:15,718 We've got a lot of animals on our ranch. 1030 00:48:15,718 --> 00:48:17,161 - What drew me to James, there was, of course, 1031 00:48:17,161 --> 00:48:19,652 the initial attraction and then there was 1032 00:48:19,652 --> 00:48:21,635 what's kept us together, 1033 00:48:21,635 --> 00:48:24,728 what made me realize he could be my partner was just 1034 00:48:24,728 --> 00:48:26,948 his values and morals and our mutual goals, 1035 00:48:26,948 --> 00:48:28,196 what we want to do with our lives and 1036 00:48:28,196 --> 00:48:29,735 what we think is important, 1037 00:48:29,735 --> 00:48:31,020 the kind of people we want around us and 1038 00:48:31,020 --> 00:48:33,365 the kind of activities and that we want to be 1039 00:48:33,365 --> 00:48:35,214 in a monogamous relationship versus an open 1040 00:48:35,214 --> 00:48:38,714 and that we value our horses and property. 1041 00:48:41,923 --> 00:48:45,044 - [Narrator] James has spent most of his life around horses. 1042 00:48:45,044 --> 00:48:47,249 - When I came out in the straight horse community, 1043 00:48:47,249 --> 00:48:49,876 it was very jaded, I guess you could say. 1044 00:48:49,876 --> 00:48:51,638 You used to be able to go in there and have nice, 1045 00:48:51,638 --> 00:48:54,167 easy conversations with people and after a while, 1046 00:48:54,167 --> 00:48:56,881 when they found out, they would turn their head. 1047 00:48:56,881 --> 00:48:59,006 It hasn't been until probably just the last few years 1048 00:48:59,006 --> 00:49:02,126 where it's become more and more accepted whereas 1049 00:49:02,126 --> 00:49:04,643 many, many people have one, come out of the closet that have 1050 00:49:04,643 --> 00:49:07,061 been in the horse show industry, such as myself, 1051 00:49:07,061 --> 00:49:09,673 as well as your top trainers and professional trainers 1052 00:49:09,673 --> 00:49:12,185 in the world that qualify and go to the world every year now 1053 00:49:12,185 --> 00:49:14,356 have also come out of the closet and 1054 00:49:14,356 --> 00:49:16,540 it's become much, much more acceptable. 1055 00:49:16,540 --> 00:49:18,642 - [Narrator] James also competes in many of the 20 or so 1056 00:49:18,642 --> 00:49:21,532 gay rodeos held across the United States 1057 00:49:21,532 --> 00:49:23,365 and Canada every year. 1058 00:49:24,611 --> 00:49:28,511 It can be just as rough-and-tumble as any straight rodeo. 1059 00:49:28,511 --> 00:49:30,794 (crowds cheering) 1060 00:49:30,794 --> 00:49:34,690 (upbeat country guitar music) 1061 00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:36,738 But the gay rodeos also include a couple of events 1062 00:49:36,738 --> 00:49:39,080 you won't find on the straight circuit. 1063 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,954 In the Wild Drag Race, men dress up in women's clothing 1064 00:49:40,954 --> 00:49:42,842 and try to mount a young steer. 1065 00:49:42,842 --> 00:49:46,259 Wonder where they came up with that idea. 1066 00:49:49,324 --> 00:49:50,568 Then, there's Goat Dressing, 1067 00:49:50,568 --> 00:49:52,653 where contestants try to put underwear on a goat 1068 00:49:52,653 --> 00:49:55,236 in the quickest amount of time. 1069 00:49:56,184 --> 00:49:58,079 It's all part of the campy side of gay rodeo 1070 00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:01,391 that makes the events, in a word, special. 1071 00:50:01,391 --> 00:50:04,631 (upbeat country guitar music) 1072 00:50:04,631 --> 00:50:06,635 - They call me Wild Wild Wes on the rodeo circuit. 1073 00:50:06,635 --> 00:50:09,233 I'm a little bit on the wild side when it comes to 1074 00:50:09,233 --> 00:50:13,400 the spirit and the energy of what makes gay rodeo fun. 1075 00:50:14,959 --> 00:50:17,563 It's really cool that we have the camp events. 1076 00:50:17,563 --> 00:50:20,644 We are gay and we enjoy fun things. 1077 00:50:20,644 --> 00:50:23,684 A new contestant that maybe doesn't have a horse 1078 00:50:23,684 --> 00:50:26,180 and never owned a horse but they'd like to be 1079 00:50:26,180 --> 00:50:28,421 involved with gay rodeo, they can actually go out 1080 00:50:28,421 --> 00:50:32,588 to the rodeo arena and have a good time and actually compete 1081 00:50:35,114 --> 00:50:36,882 - [Narrator] James said when he was growing up, 1082 00:50:36,882 --> 00:50:38,738 he didn't know of any gay rodeos. 1083 00:50:38,738 --> 00:50:40,512 - I didn't know what gay was. 1084 00:50:40,512 --> 00:50:42,363 I just knew that it was something that was not looked upon. 1085 00:50:42,363 --> 00:50:45,894 Honestly, until I was probably 18 or 19 years old, 1086 00:50:45,894 --> 00:50:48,309 I had never met a gay person in my life. 1087 00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:49,872 I played the straight role until I was 1088 00:50:49,872 --> 00:50:51,489 in my early to mid 20s. 1089 00:50:51,489 --> 00:50:53,793 Any of my guy friends that were being chummy, 1090 00:50:53,793 --> 00:50:55,208 that were just being good guys, 1091 00:50:55,208 --> 00:50:56,580 I would never allow them to get close to me because 1092 00:50:56,580 --> 00:50:59,190 I didn't want any interaction to be stereotyped 1093 00:50:59,190 --> 00:51:00,480 as being a gay man. 1094 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,430 I had a girlfriend for many years and competed in 1095 00:51:02,430 --> 00:51:05,394 the junior rodeo circuit and no, everything was hush-hush. 1096 00:51:05,394 --> 00:51:07,926 That was not looked upon as something was acceptable 1097 00:51:07,926 --> 00:51:10,563 in my family and then I came to grips with myself 1098 00:51:10,563 --> 00:51:12,649 in terms that I had to just be me. 1099 00:51:12,649 --> 00:51:14,556 When I first come out of the closet, my dad says, 1100 00:51:14,556 --> 00:51:16,252 "I hope you don't come home wearing a pair of high heels." 1101 00:51:16,252 --> 00:51:17,303 You know? 1102 00:51:17,303 --> 00:51:19,704 But, you know, we laughed upon it and I said, 1103 00:51:19,704 --> 00:51:21,887 "Dad, you would be surprised what 1104 00:51:21,887 --> 00:51:23,058 "I can do in a pair of high heels." 1105 00:51:23,058 --> 00:51:25,887 My family is very accepting of it now. 1106 00:51:25,887 --> 00:51:28,362 There's a lot of images that are portrayed out there of us 1107 00:51:28,362 --> 00:51:31,286 people that are gay and they understand 1108 00:51:31,286 --> 00:51:33,765 that we're just people, too. 1109 00:51:33,765 --> 00:51:35,070 Some people say it's chosen. 1110 00:51:35,070 --> 00:51:36,495 I don't personally believe that. 1111 00:51:36,495 --> 00:51:38,424 In my situation, it's something that I've known 1112 00:51:38,424 --> 00:51:41,019 ever since I was a child. 1113 00:51:41,019 --> 00:51:43,494 - [Narrator] Matt also tried to play it straight for a while 1114 00:51:43,494 --> 00:51:45,018 but knew at a pretty young age he was gay. 1115 00:51:45,018 --> 00:51:48,918 - Well, I grew up in a very rural town out in the middle 1116 00:51:48,918 --> 00:51:53,085 of beautiful rural Oregon, and then I went on to date women. 1117 00:51:54,258 --> 00:51:57,378 To me, it was just playing the part. 1118 00:51:57,378 --> 00:51:59,330 I was doing what my parents wanted me to do. 1119 00:51:59,330 --> 00:52:00,717 If they had their way, 1120 00:52:00,717 --> 00:52:02,800 I would have gotten a degree in agriculture and 1121 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,728 been running a successful ranch 1122 00:52:04,728 --> 00:52:06,582 up there with them, which they do. 1123 00:52:06,582 --> 00:52:08,688 I just couldn't do it. 1124 00:52:08,688 --> 00:52:11,907 I felt like it was a lie to the girl. 1125 00:52:11,907 --> 00:52:13,914 It's too much of a show for me with women. 1126 00:52:13,914 --> 00:52:16,410 I remember I had to be the big stud and do all this 1127 00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:19,474 and put on this big man act and now I want that back. 1128 00:52:19,474 --> 00:52:21,189 I want that, too! 1129 00:52:21,189 --> 00:52:22,713 (chuckling) 1130 00:52:22,713 --> 00:52:24,288 - What is nice about Matthew and I, my partner, 1131 00:52:24,288 --> 00:52:26,826 is we both are men and we both carry that image. 1132 00:52:26,826 --> 00:52:28,521 Somebody that is not afraid to get their hands dirty, 1133 00:52:28,521 --> 00:52:30,300 not afraid to go out there and shovel but also 1134 00:52:30,300 --> 00:52:32,151 is not afraid to go in the house and cook dinner 1135 00:52:32,151 --> 00:52:33,257 if they need to, also. 1136 00:52:33,257 --> 00:52:35,016 - Knowing that a guy has my back, 1137 00:52:35,016 --> 00:52:36,779 I always felt like that was kind of what 1138 00:52:36,779 --> 00:52:39,228 the man did for the woman but I feel like I can protect 1139 00:52:39,228 --> 00:52:41,745 my partner as well as he can protect me. 1140 00:52:41,745 --> 00:52:44,007 No one gets anything over on us. 1141 00:52:44,007 --> 00:52:46,593 I feel like I'm pretty safe that way. 1142 00:52:46,593 --> 00:52:48,176 I feel very secure. 1143 00:52:50,574 --> 00:52:52,992 (men shouting) 1144 00:52:52,992 --> 00:52:55,742 (crowd cheering) 1145 00:52:59,763 --> 00:53:03,174 - The bull I got on today, he was kind of nasty in the chute 1146 00:53:03,174 --> 00:53:05,757 and he made a quick right turn, 1147 00:53:07,578 --> 00:53:11,495 banged me up into the gate and hit my elbow and 1148 00:53:13,604 --> 00:53:14,736 I lost all focus. 1149 00:53:14,736 --> 00:53:18,483 My instinct took over and that was to just 1150 00:53:18,483 --> 00:53:22,357 reach for something because I was in a bad spot. 1151 00:53:22,357 --> 00:53:24,130 I was in trouble. 1152 00:53:24,130 --> 00:53:26,649 - [Narrator] Steven Daigle became 1153 00:53:26,649 --> 00:53:29,711 America's favorite gay cowboy when he appeared on 1154 00:53:29,711 --> 00:53:32,367 the CBS reality show, Big Brother. 1155 00:53:32,367 --> 00:53:34,197 - Just doing rodeo itself is an adrenaline rush. 1156 00:53:34,197 --> 00:53:35,698 It's competition. 1157 00:53:35,698 --> 00:53:37,101 You're competing against yourself. 1158 00:53:37,101 --> 00:53:38,310 You're competing against animals. 1159 00:53:38,310 --> 00:53:39,792 You're competing against other people. 1160 00:53:39,792 --> 00:53:42,273 I don't know, it makes you feel like you're living. 1161 00:53:42,273 --> 00:53:44,316 You actually get a lot of notoriety out of it. 1162 00:53:44,316 --> 00:53:45,876 People love to watch it. 1163 00:53:45,876 --> 00:53:48,357 It's definitely good for getting a hug-up 1164 00:53:48,357 --> 00:53:50,208 every now and then. 1165 00:53:50,208 --> 00:53:51,335 (laughing) 1166 00:53:51,335 --> 00:53:52,803 To get on the back of that bull and sit down, 1167 00:53:52,803 --> 00:53:54,864 you have to be mentally ready, physically ready and 1168 00:53:54,864 --> 00:53:56,427 all of it's just exciting. 1169 00:53:56,427 --> 00:53:59,760 Gay cowboys are very in the media right now. 1170 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,593 (horse whinnying) 1171 00:54:04,851 --> 00:54:06,765 You want your 15 minutes, too? 1172 00:54:06,765 --> 00:54:10,020 Some of the things you never got to see on the show, 1173 00:54:10,020 --> 00:54:12,240 people were more shocked to find out I was a bull rider 1174 00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:14,149 than they were to find out I was gay. 1175 00:54:14,149 --> 00:54:16,962 Like, when we had conversations, people were like, 1176 00:54:16,962 --> 00:54:18,345 "Oh, you're gay, oh okay." 1177 00:54:18,345 --> 00:54:19,578 Then, they're like 1178 00:54:19,578 --> 00:54:20,661 "You ride bulls? 1179 00:54:20,661 --> 00:54:21,641 "Now way!" 1180 00:54:21,641 --> 00:54:22,614 They're like, 1181 00:54:22,614 --> 00:54:23,592 "Shut up! 1182 00:54:23,592 --> 00:54:24,861 "I can't believe you get on the back of a bull! 1183 00:54:24,861 --> 00:54:25,854 "That's so crazy!" 1184 00:54:25,854 --> 00:54:29,828 People think that, like, a gay guy couldn't ride a bull 1185 00:54:29,828 --> 00:54:32,931 or ride a bucking horse and what they don't realize is that 1186 00:54:32,931 --> 00:54:35,973 I'm just as much of a man as a straight man is but 1187 00:54:35,973 --> 00:54:37,965 there's a difference, I think, 1188 00:54:37,965 --> 00:54:40,164 between masculinity and being tough. 1189 00:54:40,164 --> 00:54:41,849 I think you can be very masculine and not be tough 1190 00:54:41,849 --> 00:54:43,794 and I think a lot of these, 1191 00:54:43,794 --> 00:54:45,624 what you might call effeminate guys, 1192 00:54:45,624 --> 00:54:48,687 that are rodeo-ing, they may be very effeminate 1193 00:54:48,687 --> 00:54:49,955 but they're tough. 1194 00:54:49,955 --> 00:54:53,580 (upbeat dance music) 1195 00:54:53,580 --> 00:54:55,468 ♫ Oh oh 1196 00:54:55,468 --> 00:54:57,635 ♫ Come on 1197 00:54:58,944 --> 00:55:01,032 - [Narrator] James and Steve are also regular fixtures 1198 00:55:01,032 --> 00:55:03,116 at gay rodeos but more often you'll see them 1199 00:55:03,116 --> 00:55:05,826 in jean skirts instead of Wranglers. 1200 00:55:05,826 --> 00:55:07,370 A few years ago, the couple decided to dress up in drag 1201 00:55:07,370 --> 00:55:09,620 to raise money for charity. 1202 00:55:11,817 --> 00:55:14,658 I wanted to prove to people that you could still be a man 1203 00:55:14,658 --> 00:55:16,497 and wear a dress and raise money but when it all comes off, 1204 00:55:16,497 --> 00:55:18,135 you're still a man no matter what. 1205 00:55:18,135 --> 00:55:21,582 I am just as rough and tumble in drag as I am out of drag. 1206 00:55:21,582 --> 00:55:23,044 I've ridden bulls. 1207 00:55:23,044 --> 00:55:24,936 I've done steer riding. 1208 00:55:24,936 --> 00:55:26,304 I do chute-dogging. 1209 00:55:26,304 --> 00:55:28,956 - It takes a man to walk around in a pair of heels. 1210 00:55:28,956 --> 00:55:30,316 Trust me. 1211 00:55:30,316 --> 00:55:31,587 It kills your feet. 1212 00:55:31,587 --> 00:55:35,295 Not only that, to have big enough balls, shall I say, 1213 00:55:35,295 --> 00:55:38,727 to walk through a crowd of say, a leather community, 1214 00:55:38,727 --> 00:55:41,649 in drag, and they're looking at you thinking, 1215 00:55:41,649 --> 00:55:43,031 "Why do you belong here?" 1216 00:55:43,031 --> 00:55:45,041 Then, by the time the night's over, 1217 00:55:45,041 --> 00:55:46,382 they're eating out of your hand thinking 1218 00:55:46,382 --> 00:55:48,321 you're the best thing since peanut butter. 1219 00:55:48,321 --> 00:55:50,874 That's an accomplishment. 1220 00:55:50,874 --> 00:55:52,746 - As you can see, this is not an easy process. 1221 00:55:52,746 --> 00:55:55,241 We're putting body parts in places they don't need to be 1222 00:55:55,241 --> 00:55:57,270 and we shove ourselves into clothing 1223 00:55:57,270 --> 00:56:00,057 that should not really fit. 1224 00:56:00,057 --> 00:56:02,376 I tell people all the time that it takes balls to be a woman 1225 00:56:02,376 --> 00:56:03,626 It really does. 1226 00:56:07,857 --> 00:56:09,474 It ain't easy being pretty. 1227 00:56:09,474 --> 00:56:11,019 I actually enjoy the fact that 1228 00:56:11,019 --> 00:56:12,828 I get to be somebody different. 1229 00:56:12,828 --> 00:56:16,494 I've made up this character, for good or bad or indifferent, 1230 00:56:16,494 --> 00:56:20,238 and you know what, I get to raise money for charity 1231 00:56:20,238 --> 00:56:21,857 across the US. 1232 00:56:21,857 --> 00:56:23,613 I'm fundraising, so if anybody would 1233 00:56:23,613 --> 00:56:24,903 like to buy some raffle tickets? 1234 00:56:24,903 --> 00:56:26,653 Do you have the time? 1235 00:56:29,619 --> 00:56:31,569 I get to make a difference. 1236 00:56:31,569 --> 00:56:35,370 I get to give back to the communities that I'm involved in. 1237 00:56:35,370 --> 00:56:38,163 We need to give back because 1238 00:56:38,163 --> 00:56:40,721 we get so much from our communities. 1239 00:56:40,721 --> 00:56:42,304 - I think it's fun. 1240 00:56:44,210 --> 00:56:45,651 I like the shock value. 1241 00:56:45,651 --> 00:56:48,287 The people who knew me before, as Steve, 1242 00:56:48,287 --> 00:56:51,719 and then I kind of come out as Aspen. 1243 00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,153 My best friends do not recognize me. 1244 00:56:54,153 --> 00:56:56,866 I kind of like that aspect of not saying that I'm hiding, 1245 00:56:56,866 --> 00:56:59,769 but it's a different persona and a different side of me 1246 00:56:59,769 --> 00:57:02,052 that I can get across to people. 1247 00:57:02,052 --> 00:57:04,444 The drag community is a very loving group. 1248 00:57:04,444 --> 00:57:06,518 It's sort of like they feel that they have to 1249 00:57:06,518 --> 00:57:08,485 protect one another and help one another because 1250 00:57:08,485 --> 00:57:10,217 they're discriminated by people within their own community. 1251 00:57:10,217 --> 00:57:13,772 Not by everyone, but there are those people who 1252 00:57:13,772 --> 00:57:15,619 discriminate against the drag. 1253 00:57:15,619 --> 00:57:18,021 For a group that already has the tinge of discrimination 1254 00:57:18,021 --> 00:57:20,928 against ourselves from the communities at large, 1255 00:57:20,928 --> 00:57:22,660 it's discouraging to see that 1256 00:57:22,660 --> 00:57:25,004 we're discriminating against each other. 1257 00:57:25,004 --> 00:57:26,351 This is one persona. 1258 00:57:26,351 --> 00:57:27,810 When this comes off, I forget about that, 1259 00:57:27,810 --> 00:57:29,315 because that's not who I am. 1260 00:57:29,315 --> 00:57:31,825 I'm James and when I put this on, then I'm Janet. 1261 00:57:31,825 --> 00:57:33,293 I'm two separate people. 1262 00:57:33,293 --> 00:57:35,608 Once she comes off, she's in a box and 1263 00:57:35,608 --> 00:57:38,909 I'm back to being a regular Joe Shmoe. 1264 00:57:38,909 --> 00:57:42,144 I'm not as masculine as a lot of guys out there but 1265 00:57:42,144 --> 00:57:45,061 I'm still a guy once she comes off. 1266 00:57:48,035 --> 00:57:50,920 - [Narrator] The art of drag dates back to 1267 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,885 the earliest days of the gay community. 1268 00:57:53,885 --> 00:57:56,303 In the 1930s, this nightclub was all the rage 1269 00:57:56,303 --> 00:57:58,562 with both gays and straights. 1270 00:57:58,562 --> 00:58:02,210 - Within gay male culture, there was a celebration at 1271 00:58:02,210 --> 00:58:05,542 being able to defy gender roles. 1272 00:58:05,542 --> 00:58:09,386 Gender roles were seen and arguably still are seen, 1273 00:58:09,386 --> 00:58:11,123 as very oppressive, very limited. 1274 00:58:11,123 --> 00:58:14,243 They already knew they were excluded from the mainstream 1275 00:58:14,243 --> 00:58:16,032 because their sexuality didn't fit the role. 1276 00:58:16,032 --> 00:58:20,187 They have, then, freedom to also play with gender roles. 1277 00:58:20,187 --> 00:58:22,804 - Camp is making fun of a kind of a failed seriousness, 1278 00:58:22,804 --> 00:58:26,527 so for those who take their gender expression very, 1279 00:58:26,527 --> 00:58:29,545 very seriously, for example, poking fun at that 1280 00:58:29,545 --> 00:58:32,463 and showing that their gender expression is just as much 1281 00:58:32,463 --> 00:58:35,727 a performance as anyone else's. 1282 00:58:35,727 --> 00:58:38,143 - People who go in drag often, 1283 00:58:38,143 --> 00:58:41,167 although they are embracing the feminine part of themselves, 1284 00:58:41,167 --> 00:58:43,750 do so with a masculine bravado. 1285 00:58:48,967 --> 00:58:52,745 They're embracing both sides of their sexuality. 1286 00:58:52,745 --> 00:58:54,628 (upbeat pop rock music) 1287 00:58:54,628 --> 00:58:57,028 - It wasn't that there seemed like there was something 1288 00:58:57,028 --> 00:58:59,289 better on one side of the fence than the other. 1289 00:58:59,289 --> 00:59:00,985 I think it was more being able to find a place where 1290 00:59:00,985 --> 00:59:03,584 I was comfortable being perceived by others 1291 00:59:03,584 --> 00:59:05,447 as I was perceiving myself. 1292 00:59:05,447 --> 00:59:08,859 I think the question I hear a lot from people is 1293 00:59:08,859 --> 00:59:11,007 "Why did you decide to become a man?" 1294 00:59:11,007 --> 00:59:12,927 And my answer is always that I always felt like 1295 00:59:12,927 --> 00:59:14,468 I was one already. 1296 00:59:14,468 --> 00:59:17,705 I never would have thought that the differences between 1297 00:59:17,705 --> 00:59:20,745 testosterone and that set of hormones affect your body 1298 00:59:20,745 --> 00:59:24,068 and estrogen and those set of hormones affect your body. 1299 00:59:24,068 --> 00:59:26,741 I would have been like, oh I'm sure it's not a big deal, 1300 00:59:26,741 --> 00:59:28,985 but it is and it's a huge deal. 1301 00:59:28,985 --> 00:59:30,825 Your sexuality is incredibly elevated in a way that 1302 00:59:30,825 --> 00:59:34,908 I had never experienced my sexuality ever before. 1303 00:59:36,068 --> 00:59:38,969 My aggression was really elevated in a way that 1304 00:59:38,969 --> 00:59:41,828 I hadn't expected and that I hadn't ever experienced. 1305 00:59:41,828 --> 00:59:44,665 I can't believe guys walk around like this all the time. 1306 00:59:44,665 --> 00:59:46,223 How do they not feel like crazy people? 1307 00:59:46,223 --> 00:59:47,305 I feel like a crazy person. 1308 00:59:47,305 --> 00:59:51,108 I probably cried like, four times in the last eight years. 1309 00:59:51,108 --> 00:59:52,548 I lost my-- 1310 00:59:52,548 --> 00:59:54,948 I wasn't able to do it anymore. 1311 00:59:54,948 --> 00:59:57,222 If I got hit in the face or something. 1312 00:59:57,222 --> 00:59:58,687 (chuckling) 1313 00:59:58,687 --> 01:00:01,268 After I started taking testosterone, 1314 01:00:01,268 --> 01:00:02,446 people would be like, 1315 01:00:02,446 --> 01:00:03,588 "What's wrong with you?" 1316 01:00:03,588 --> 01:00:04,745 And I'd be like, 1317 01:00:04,745 --> 01:00:05,865 "I don't know but I'm really pissed. 1318 01:00:05,865 --> 01:00:06,985 "I can't explain it to you and 1319 01:00:06,985 --> 01:00:08,363 "I don't think I should have to. 1320 01:00:08,363 --> 01:00:09,486 "I'm just pissed." 1321 01:00:09,486 --> 01:00:11,129 I felt really almost a little bit sad about losing 1322 01:00:11,129 --> 01:00:12,947 that ability to communicate. 1323 01:00:12,947 --> 01:00:16,367 All of a sudden, I couldn't do it anymore. 1324 01:00:16,367 --> 01:00:18,585 I felt like my vocabulary got cut in half. 1325 01:00:18,585 --> 01:00:20,548 I could feel it but I couldn't explain it 1326 01:00:20,548 --> 01:00:22,148 and I don't know why. 1327 01:00:22,148 --> 01:00:25,049 It just kind of went away. 1328 01:00:25,049 --> 01:00:27,129 I think that we value masculinity so much 1329 01:00:27,129 --> 01:00:29,225 more in our society than we do femininity. 1330 01:00:29,225 --> 01:00:32,265 There's male privilege, which just happens. 1331 01:00:32,265 --> 01:00:34,068 It's people who will look you in the eye 1332 01:00:34,068 --> 01:00:35,608 when they talk to you. 1333 01:00:35,608 --> 01:00:37,246 That doesn't happen for women. 1334 01:00:37,246 --> 01:00:39,545 When you talk, people will listen to you. 1335 01:00:39,545 --> 01:00:43,465 When you have an idea, people will believe that it works. 1336 01:00:43,465 --> 01:00:47,632 You're constantly rewarded for masculinity in this way. 1337 01:00:52,534 --> 01:00:55,352 Even in other kinds of communities, like dyke communities, 1338 01:00:55,352 --> 01:00:58,014 butches are rewarded for being more masculine. 1339 01:00:58,014 --> 01:01:00,174 The same thing happens in gay male communities 1340 01:01:00,174 --> 01:01:03,454 that butcher, bigger, stronger, more straight-acting men 1341 01:01:03,454 --> 01:01:07,715 are more sexually valuable than feminine men. 1342 01:01:07,715 --> 01:01:12,094 I feel like I had to grow and learn how to become a man, 1343 01:01:12,094 --> 01:01:15,315 just seeing how we teach men how to be men. 1344 01:01:15,315 --> 01:01:18,296 I think I had to learn the same way as everybody else did. 1345 01:01:18,296 --> 01:01:20,115 How I sat and how I walked and how I talked and 1346 01:01:20,115 --> 01:01:21,736 all these things that I felt like, 1347 01:01:21,736 --> 01:01:23,992 if you do these things, that's what makes a man. 1348 01:01:23,992 --> 01:01:27,475 If you pay for dinner or if you take up lots of space 1349 01:01:27,475 --> 01:01:31,075 with your body or if you act like you know 1350 01:01:31,075 --> 01:01:34,574 what you're doing all the time, then that's what men do, 1351 01:01:34,574 --> 01:01:36,171 so that's what I'm gonna do and it didn't feel right and 1352 01:01:36,171 --> 01:01:38,355 I didn't know why. 1353 01:01:38,355 --> 01:01:40,831 It wasn't until I started being able to be in 1354 01:01:40,831 --> 01:01:42,920 gay male spaces that I realized that there were 1355 01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,878 a hundred million other ways of experiencing maleness 1356 01:01:46,878 --> 01:01:49,678 and masculinity than what television or billboards 1357 01:01:49,678 --> 01:01:51,896 or sports or whatever said. 1358 01:01:51,896 --> 01:01:54,739 You could touch each other, not in a sexual way necessarily, 1359 01:01:54,739 --> 01:01:57,777 but just like you could be friendly and funny and silly 1360 01:01:57,777 --> 01:02:01,800 and affectionate and genuinely care for another man. 1361 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:03,736 I was like, oh my God, you can do all of these things. 1362 01:02:03,736 --> 01:02:06,536 But I wasn't allowed to do any of this stuff and 1363 01:02:06,536 --> 01:02:08,318 all of a sudden it was like permission to be able to. 1364 01:02:08,318 --> 01:02:10,499 No, you can do whatever you want. 1365 01:02:10,499 --> 01:02:14,798 - [Narrator] Jack Malebranche lives in Portland, Oregon. 1366 01:02:14,798 --> 01:02:18,381 He works for an exercise equipment company. 1367 01:02:21,214 --> 01:02:22,636 Jack is also an author. 1368 01:02:22,636 --> 01:02:24,155 He's written a book that takes head-on 1369 01:02:24,155 --> 01:02:26,076 the issue of gay masculinity. 1370 01:02:26,076 --> 01:02:28,977 Androphilia, a Greek term for love of maleness, 1371 01:02:28,977 --> 01:02:31,537 angered some critics in the gay community. 1372 01:02:31,537 --> 01:02:35,090 - I don't believe that gay should be the defining quality 1373 01:02:35,090 --> 01:02:36,934 that you associate yourself with. 1374 01:02:36,934 --> 01:02:38,737 There are a million other things that I can be 1375 01:02:38,737 --> 01:02:40,175 at any given time. 1376 01:02:40,175 --> 01:02:44,337 Making gay the primary one is counter-productive. 1377 01:02:44,337 --> 01:02:48,153 It puts you forever in a small group that separates you 1378 01:02:48,153 --> 01:02:50,534 from other people and separates you from other men. 1379 01:02:50,534 --> 01:02:55,158 I share more interests with other men than, in many cases, 1380 01:02:55,158 --> 01:02:56,658 I do with gay men. 1381 01:02:57,537 --> 01:03:00,556 Why should I limit myself by clustering around this gay 1382 01:03:00,556 --> 01:03:04,131 community and making that the center of my whole identity? 1383 01:03:04,131 --> 01:03:07,196 Mainstream gay culture is a celebration of fashion, 1384 01:03:07,196 --> 01:03:09,356 the kind of music that 14 year old girls listen to. 1385 01:03:09,356 --> 01:03:11,014 It's the kind of thing that housewives would like. 1386 01:03:11,014 --> 01:03:14,636 It's not something that you'd associate with men. 1387 01:03:14,636 --> 01:03:18,438 As they become progressively involved in gay culture, 1388 01:03:18,438 --> 01:03:20,473 they just move further and further away from 1389 01:03:20,473 --> 01:03:23,334 what it means to be a man. 1390 01:03:23,334 --> 01:03:24,977 They become unable to relate to other men and 1391 01:03:24,977 --> 01:03:27,194 I think that's unhealthy. 1392 01:03:27,194 --> 01:03:30,236 In the gay community, and this is why I think effeminacy 1393 01:03:30,236 --> 01:03:34,236 defines gayness, is that it's okay to be effeminate but 1394 01:03:34,236 --> 01:03:37,435 your masculinity is always going to be in question. 1395 01:03:37,435 --> 01:03:40,611 We give straight men a wide range of how they can behave. 1396 01:03:40,611 --> 01:03:43,494 They can be nerdy little IT guys who don't really do 1397 01:03:43,494 --> 01:03:46,614 anything traditionally masculine at all but 1398 01:03:46,614 --> 01:03:49,570 because they're straight, we give them their masculinity. 1399 01:03:49,570 --> 01:03:51,915 They automatically get their man card, 1400 01:03:51,915 --> 01:03:54,452 whereas I think homosexual men have to work for it. 1401 01:03:54,452 --> 01:03:56,577 The measure of a man should be in his accomplishments. 1402 01:03:56,577 --> 01:03:58,636 I'm not a man because of how pretty I am, 1403 01:03:58,636 --> 01:04:01,057 or because of my great new outfit, 1404 01:04:01,057 --> 01:04:04,837 I'm a man because of what I've done and who I am 1405 01:04:04,837 --> 01:04:07,218 and what I stand for and what I talk about and 1406 01:04:07,218 --> 01:04:09,398 I don't really see, in gay culture, 1407 01:04:09,398 --> 01:04:12,657 any trend towards making that the goal, 1408 01:04:12,657 --> 01:04:15,798 to center your life around your accomplishments 1409 01:04:15,798 --> 01:04:18,358 and your values and your sense of integrity 1410 01:04:18,358 --> 01:04:20,277 and your sense of honor. 1411 01:04:20,277 --> 01:04:23,777 (upbeat percussive music) 1412 01:04:25,014 --> 01:04:27,857 - Masculine cultures have had same-sex sexuality 1413 01:04:27,857 --> 01:04:31,734 involved in them ever since the beginning of time. 1414 01:04:31,734 --> 01:04:35,334 Prisoners, sailors, all sorts of cultures of men 1415 01:04:35,334 --> 01:04:38,454 have had sex with one another but it wasn't really until 1416 01:04:38,454 --> 01:04:42,496 the 1940s when you started to have a self-identified 1417 01:04:42,496 --> 01:04:46,579 gay male community that was also specifically and 1418 01:04:47,478 --> 01:04:50,594 self-consciously masculine identified. 1419 01:04:50,594 --> 01:04:53,194 - As the soldiers returned from World War II, 1420 01:04:53,194 --> 01:04:56,214 these port cities like San Diego, Los Angeles, 1421 01:04:56,214 --> 01:04:59,137 San Francisco, New York, soldiers would stay there. 1422 01:04:59,137 --> 01:05:00,876 Having discovered each other, 1423 01:05:00,876 --> 01:05:03,078 started living and forming communities. 1424 01:05:03,078 --> 01:05:06,036 You started to see increasingly the adoption of 1425 01:05:06,036 --> 01:05:09,254 these masculine working-class forms. 1426 01:05:09,254 --> 01:05:11,414 You saw gay motorcycle clubs. 1427 01:05:11,414 --> 01:05:14,130 You could see pictorials and the popularity of 1428 01:05:14,130 --> 01:05:15,777 those types of magazines. 1429 01:05:15,777 --> 01:05:19,457 Beat poetry, this kind of masculine self-positioning 1430 01:05:19,457 --> 01:05:22,696 that did not necessarily excluse homosexuality and 1431 01:05:22,696 --> 01:05:26,174 you also saw a political movement that was looking for 1432 01:05:26,174 --> 01:05:30,472 legitimacy largely through normalcy and masculinity 1433 01:05:30,472 --> 01:05:32,976 was seen as one of the ways 1434 01:05:32,976 --> 01:05:36,134 in which you could be well-adjusted. 1435 01:05:36,134 --> 01:05:38,396 After the Kinsey studies came out in 1948 1436 01:05:38,396 --> 01:05:40,053 and then in 1956, 1437 01:05:40,053 --> 01:05:43,494 there was a much more widespread understanding that 1438 01:05:43,494 --> 01:05:46,694 many more men were engaging in homosexual activity 1439 01:05:46,694 --> 01:05:48,534 than was previously thought. 1440 01:05:48,534 --> 01:05:50,577 They couldn't always tell who was a homosexual just based 1441 01:05:50,577 --> 01:05:54,518 on whether or not a man was, for example, effeminate. 1442 01:05:54,518 --> 01:05:57,334 By the 1960s, you were starting to see the growth 1443 01:05:57,334 --> 01:06:00,956 of leather bars and this almost market segmentation 1444 01:06:00,956 --> 01:06:05,115 within gay male bar culture and one element of that 1445 01:06:05,115 --> 01:06:08,854 is explicitly about a kind of masculine and 1446 01:06:08,854 --> 01:06:11,234 even hyper-masculine pose. 1447 01:06:11,234 --> 01:06:13,777 - [Narrator] In 1964, Life Magazine even featured a cover 1448 01:06:13,777 --> 01:06:17,478 story investigating the secret world of the homosexual. 1449 01:06:17,478 --> 01:06:20,198 The article states that patrons of a homosexual bar 1450 01:06:20,198 --> 01:06:22,914 in San Francisco wear leather jackets, 1451 01:06:22,914 --> 01:06:25,036 make a show of masculinity and 1452 01:06:25,036 --> 01:06:27,777 scorn effeminate members of their world. 1453 01:06:27,777 --> 01:06:30,118 It also warns that for every obvious homosexual, 1454 01:06:30,118 --> 01:06:33,836 there are probably nine near-impossible to detect. 1455 01:06:33,836 --> 01:06:36,876 Artist Tom of Finland helped to embellish 1456 01:06:36,876 --> 01:06:39,536 this new-found hyper-masculine look. 1457 01:06:39,536 --> 01:06:42,598 Tom's homoerotic art appeared in various publications 1458 01:06:42,598 --> 01:06:44,681 as far back as the 1950s. 1459 01:06:45,878 --> 01:06:49,356 - He wanted to give his brothers some type of 1460 01:06:49,356 --> 01:06:52,553 masculine identity as men because society, at that time, 1461 01:06:52,553 --> 01:06:56,918 they would not even qualify us as being men. 1462 01:06:56,918 --> 01:06:59,653 He drew just beautiful men. 1463 01:06:59,653 --> 01:07:03,014 Their bodies were just stylized enough. 1464 01:07:03,014 --> 01:07:04,374 They had a certain look. 1465 01:07:04,374 --> 01:07:05,996 The way they looked at each other, 1466 01:07:05,996 --> 01:07:08,678 the whole game and the dance of it. 1467 01:07:08,678 --> 01:07:11,894 We like intrigue, we like mystery, 1468 01:07:11,894 --> 01:07:14,931 and he would actually put all of that into his drawings. 1469 01:07:14,931 --> 01:07:17,356 Masculine men having sex with each other. 1470 01:07:17,356 --> 01:07:21,158 He presented an image and we took it and made it ours. 1471 01:07:21,158 --> 01:07:25,158 - Masculinity became one of the ways that gay men 1472 01:07:25,158 --> 01:07:28,075 could find one another by emulating 1473 01:07:29,295 --> 01:07:32,071 the object of their own desire. 1474 01:07:32,071 --> 01:07:35,878 Then, you have, of course, the sexual revolution and 1475 01:07:35,878 --> 01:07:39,958 out of Gay Liberation comes the Castro Clone. 1476 01:07:39,958 --> 01:07:43,674 The irony of the Castro Clone, of course, 1477 01:07:43,674 --> 01:07:46,641 is that you're supposed to be displaying this sort of 1478 01:07:46,641 --> 01:07:49,457 natural masculinity but it takes a great deal of effort 1479 01:07:49,457 --> 01:07:51,558 to get it precisely right. 1480 01:07:51,558 --> 01:07:54,038 - [Narrator] Bob Davis experienced the era of 1481 01:07:54,038 --> 01:07:55,814 the Castro Clone firsthand. 1482 01:07:55,814 --> 01:07:57,756 - My first day in San Francisco, 1483 01:07:57,756 --> 01:07:59,878 we went to the opening of the gay softball league. 1484 01:07:59,878 --> 01:08:02,454 Gay men playing softball, playing sports. 1485 01:08:02,454 --> 01:08:03,916 Who knew? 1486 01:08:03,916 --> 01:08:06,236 I thought where in the hell am I? 1487 01:08:06,236 --> 01:08:07,069 Holy Lord! 1488 01:08:08,056 --> 01:08:09,958 You know, it was like halleluia. 1489 01:08:09,958 --> 01:08:13,254 It was the first generation of gay men who were living 1490 01:08:13,254 --> 01:08:16,076 open and out and free and they were basically 1491 01:08:16,076 --> 01:08:18,409 embracing their masculinity. 1492 01:08:19,516 --> 01:08:22,097 - [Narrator] However, the joy of this new-found expression 1493 01:08:22,097 --> 01:08:23,217 was short-lived. 1494 01:08:23,217 --> 01:08:25,213 The onset of AIDS took a devastating toll. 1495 01:08:25,213 --> 01:08:28,797 A new ideal of gay masculinity emerged, 1496 01:08:28,797 --> 01:08:30,934 centered around circuit dance parties 1497 01:08:30,934 --> 01:08:32,816 springing up around the country. 1498 01:08:32,816 --> 01:08:35,094 - Circuit culture is, in some ways, 1499 01:08:35,094 --> 01:08:38,415 a reaction against both the vulnerability represented 1500 01:08:38,415 --> 01:08:41,756 by HIV and AIDS and the Castro Clone look. 1501 01:08:41,756 --> 01:08:45,937 It's a much more explicitly ripped, heavily muscled, 1502 01:08:45,937 --> 01:08:49,373 less hair, more explicitly youthful. 1503 01:08:49,373 --> 01:08:52,156 - It was a reaction within the gay community. 1504 01:08:52,156 --> 01:08:54,253 They didn't want to be associated with AIDS. 1505 01:08:54,253 --> 01:08:55,676 Enough was enough. 1506 01:08:55,676 --> 01:08:58,577 What's a better metaphor for being pure and untouched 1507 01:08:58,577 --> 01:09:01,926 and undiseased than shaving your body and being pristine. 1508 01:09:01,926 --> 01:09:05,494 - [Narrator] But, the hirsute man was not gone for long. 1509 01:09:05,494 --> 01:09:07,734 Nowhere in the gay community are traditional masculine 1510 01:09:07,734 --> 01:09:11,814 traits more revered and celebrated than among the Bears. 1511 01:09:11,814 --> 01:09:14,598 The Bear movement began in the late 1980s. 1512 01:09:14,598 --> 01:09:16,696 - I think it was just big guys who weren't mainstream 1513 01:09:16,696 --> 01:09:18,998 When it all started back in the day. 1514 01:09:18,998 --> 01:09:21,409 So much is caught up into magazines and what the look is 1515 01:09:21,409 --> 01:09:23,958 supposed to be in the gay community and 1516 01:09:23,958 --> 01:09:25,841 how you're supposed to be and you know, 1517 01:09:25,841 --> 01:09:27,457 the reality of it is we all come in 1518 01:09:27,457 --> 01:09:28,737 different shapes and sizes. 1519 01:09:28,737 --> 01:09:30,300 We've just got to be proud of what we have and 1520 01:09:30,300 --> 01:09:31,537 where we are in our lives. 1521 01:09:31,537 --> 01:09:32,737 We all can't spend 16 hours a day in the gym 1522 01:09:32,737 --> 01:09:34,094 to be that perfect guy. 1523 01:09:34,094 --> 01:09:36,377 - I was Mr. San Francisco Bear in 2005. 1524 01:09:36,377 --> 01:09:40,281 If it weren't for Bears, I probably never would have 1525 01:09:40,281 --> 01:09:42,683 come out because I didn't fit into 1526 01:09:42,683 --> 01:09:44,261 gay society anywhere else. 1527 01:09:44,261 --> 01:09:45,781 Bears have always been about just inclusion. 1528 01:09:45,781 --> 01:09:47,538 Everyone just kind of hangs out and accepts everyone else. 1529 01:09:47,538 --> 01:09:49,365 - I love that song where beauty magazines 1530 01:09:49,365 --> 01:09:51,024 only make you feel ugly. 1531 01:09:51,024 --> 01:09:54,763 Beauty is like, masculine or just being who you are. 1532 01:09:54,763 --> 01:09:58,143 - [Narrator] Dozens of Bear events are held 1533 01:09:58,143 --> 01:09:59,941 around the world every year. 1534 01:09:59,941 --> 01:10:01,859 One of the biggest is Lazy Bear. 1535 01:10:01,859 --> 01:10:05,584 - The most masculine guys you ever see are pretty much here. 1536 01:10:05,584 --> 01:10:06,683 - Yeah. 1537 01:10:06,683 --> 01:10:08,901 - A bunch of us were walking through the Hard Rock Casino 1538 01:10:08,901 --> 01:10:10,181 and some guys were, 1539 01:10:10,181 --> 01:10:13,846 "What are you guys, a union or something?" 1540 01:10:13,846 --> 01:10:15,815 We look like a bunch of fucking plumbers or electricians 1541 01:10:15,815 --> 01:10:17,194 and that's fine. 1542 01:10:17,194 --> 01:10:18,732 You don't get beat up on the street, 1543 01:10:18,732 --> 01:10:20,374 and you get free beer. 1544 01:10:20,374 --> 01:10:21,734 It confuses people. 1545 01:10:21,734 --> 01:10:25,553 - [Narrator] Thousands of gay men trek every summer 1546 01:10:25,553 --> 01:10:28,454 to the forest town of Guerneville in Northern California 1547 01:10:28,454 --> 01:10:31,372 for a long weekend of drinking beer, dancing, 1548 01:10:31,372 --> 01:10:33,090 and just being with men. 1549 01:10:33,090 --> 01:10:34,774 - Everyone has a good time with the Bears because 1550 01:10:34,774 --> 01:10:38,374 they can be themselves and not have to put on the airs 1551 01:10:38,374 --> 01:10:39,873 or put their guard up. 1552 01:10:39,873 --> 01:10:41,814 - This is one of those parties where you don't have to come 1553 01:10:41,814 --> 01:10:43,612 and suck your gut in for the entire five days. 1554 01:10:43,612 --> 01:10:45,996 - The nature of the environment, 1555 01:10:45,996 --> 01:10:50,337 the fact that it's the mountains, the beautiful scenery, 1556 01:10:50,337 --> 01:10:52,976 it's cool, just all of that just puts you at ease 1557 01:10:52,976 --> 01:10:56,476 and so if you are at ease, you're more readily available 1558 01:10:56,476 --> 01:10:59,217 to make friends with as many people 1559 01:10:59,217 --> 01:11:00,940 as you can possibly make friends with. 1560 01:11:00,940 --> 01:11:03,436 - You express your friendship and your love for 1561 01:11:03,436 --> 01:11:06,936 your fellow men openly, it doesn't matter. 1562 01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:14,336 - There's something masculine about the whole kind of 1563 01:11:14,336 --> 01:11:16,336 hairy man kind of genre. 1564 01:11:18,272 --> 01:11:20,572 - I like muscles and hair and it's just like big 1565 01:11:20,572 --> 01:11:22,572 and masculine and butch. 1566 01:11:23,594 --> 01:11:25,112 I don't know why that is but it just is. 1567 01:11:25,112 --> 01:11:26,976 - I don't think it necessarily have to 1568 01:11:26,976 --> 01:11:29,893 have body hair to be a Bear. 1569 01:11:29,893 --> 01:11:31,572 I think it's more the whole masculine trappings, 1570 01:11:31,572 --> 01:11:34,576 the way they dress, like to drink beer, 1571 01:11:34,576 --> 01:11:37,536 and go out and have big meals. 1572 01:11:37,536 --> 01:11:40,192 - You go into the bars at the different Bear events, 1573 01:11:40,192 --> 01:11:44,794 you feel a machismo, a macho kind of feel to these guys 1574 01:11:44,794 --> 01:11:49,354 and you know, they may not be macho all the time, 1575 01:11:49,354 --> 01:11:52,993 but there's something about their masculinity, 1576 01:11:52,993 --> 01:11:56,554 there's something about them being together as a group 1577 01:11:56,554 --> 01:11:59,216 that really just makes it so powerful, 1578 01:11:59,216 --> 01:12:01,733 unlike any other group, I think, 1579 01:12:01,733 --> 01:12:04,096 any other culture in the world. 1580 01:12:04,096 --> 01:12:07,429 (upbeat pop rock music) 1581 01:12:12,437 --> 01:12:14,274 - [Narrator] As each gay man defines his ideal 1582 01:12:14,274 --> 01:12:16,176 of what it means to be a man, 1583 01:12:16,176 --> 01:12:17,876 the issue of masculinity lies at 1584 01:12:17,876 --> 01:12:19,914 a crossroads for the gay movement. 1585 01:12:19,914 --> 01:12:22,314 - The big push in sort of the relationship between 1586 01:12:22,314 --> 01:12:25,216 gay people and the majority culture in the last decade or so 1587 01:12:25,216 --> 01:12:26,799 has been let us in. 1588 01:12:27,877 --> 01:12:30,714 It's basically giving up the sort of 1589 01:12:30,714 --> 01:12:33,593 separate aspects of gay culture. 1590 01:12:33,593 --> 01:12:35,696 People of my generation, at least, 1591 01:12:35,696 --> 01:12:39,012 are not sure it's such a great bargain and are also dubious 1592 01:12:39,012 --> 01:12:42,735 as to whether or not the people who want that will 1593 01:12:42,735 --> 01:12:46,576 really find out that it's giving them what they want. 1594 01:12:46,576 --> 01:12:49,696 - Through marriage, through domestic partnership, 1595 01:12:49,696 --> 01:12:51,916 through adoption, it's much easier to assimilate 1596 01:12:51,916 --> 01:12:55,157 into heteronormativity if you're straight-acting. 1597 01:12:55,157 --> 01:12:58,517 - The other big thing is the unanswered question of whether 1598 01:12:58,517 --> 01:13:02,471 or not we as a community will solve the ways in which 1599 01:13:02,471 --> 01:13:05,991 we are stereotyped or oppressed by simply rejecting 1600 01:13:05,991 --> 01:13:09,237 gender diversity and embracing more normal 1601 01:13:09,237 --> 01:13:11,157 forms of masculinity. 1602 01:13:11,157 --> 01:13:12,981 I think over and over again, 1603 01:13:12,981 --> 01:13:16,293 we see that kind of pressure to be as normal, 1604 01:13:16,293 --> 01:13:19,408 whatever that means, as possible. 1605 01:13:19,408 --> 01:13:22,232 - Part of the process of becoming a gay male is 1606 01:13:22,232 --> 01:13:25,834 to unlearn some of the stereotypes that were imposed 1607 01:13:25,834 --> 01:13:29,953 upon us and to sort of relearn it so that we can be 1608 01:13:29,953 --> 01:13:32,474 masculine in a wide range of ways, 1609 01:13:32,474 --> 01:13:35,135 to incorporate some of the ways that we learned but 1610 01:13:35,135 --> 01:13:38,506 also to learn new ways, to be constantly changing 1611 01:13:38,506 --> 01:13:40,794 and evolving those as they occur. 1612 01:13:40,794 --> 01:13:42,533 - There's nothing to me more appealing than a man 1613 01:13:42,533 --> 01:13:44,896 that's so comfortable in his own skin that he can embrace 1614 01:13:44,896 --> 01:13:46,813 all parts of who he is. 1615 01:13:48,415 --> 01:13:51,473 - Every time that we try to assert that one kind of 1616 01:13:51,473 --> 01:13:54,256 gender expression is the most normal or the most important 1617 01:13:54,256 --> 01:13:58,597 for gay people, we push others to the side and so the key 1618 01:13:58,597 --> 01:14:02,214 is really, I think, for all of us to explore 1619 01:14:02,214 --> 01:14:06,373 what it means to be gay men in the entire range of 1620 01:14:06,373 --> 01:14:09,754 gender expressions that we have available to us and 1621 01:14:09,754 --> 01:14:12,033 to not obsess over trying to find out what 1622 01:14:12,033 --> 01:14:16,255 our real gender is but to allow for the possibility that 1623 01:14:16,255 --> 01:14:18,757 gender can change over time and it's flexible 1624 01:14:18,757 --> 01:14:21,354 and it's fluid and it's fun. 1625 01:14:21,354 --> 01:14:24,937 (high energy upbeat music) 1626 01:14:25,335 --> 01:14:35,335 Support us and become VIP member to remove all ads from www.OpenSubtitles.org 125704

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