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[narrator] You know,
you look at this picture
and it’s just amazing.
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00:00:17,283 --> 00:00:19,886
This was
the Golden Era of jazz.
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00:00:19,919 --> 00:00:24,023
That photo was
the pinnacle
of jazz in the 50’s.
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00:00:24,057 --> 00:00:27,694
There are all these guys,
these famous jazz musicians.
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00:00:31,664 --> 00:00:33,933
Count Basie, Sonny Rollins,
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00:00:33,967 --> 00:00:36,436
Horace Silver, Dizzy Gillespie,
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00:00:37,604 --> 00:00:42,175
Gene Krupa, Gerry Mulligan,
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00:00:42,208 --> 00:00:45,445
Lester Young, Charles Mingus,
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00:00:50,049 --> 00:00:52,685
Thelonius Monk
and Coleman Hawkins.
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00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:56,022
That’s a good combination,
Monk and Hawk.
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00:00:56,055 --> 00:00:58,525
And then there’s
these two women.
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00:00:59,092 --> 00:01:00,660
But who are they?
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00:01:01,294 --> 00:01:03,096
Hardly anybody knows.
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00:01:05,165 --> 00:01:08,234
[jazz music playing]
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00:01:30,457 --> 00:01:35,762
[Clora] There is nothing like
the joy of playing music
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My name is Clora Bryant.
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00:01:38,731 --> 00:01:41,334
I’m a trumpetiste.
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00:01:41,367 --> 00:01:46,172
[Viola] Oh, yes, it’s always
a surprise to have
girl musicians.
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00:01:46,206 --> 00:01:48,608
I’m Viola Smith. I'm a drummer.
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00:01:48,641 --> 00:01:52,078
[Billie] There were no women
with any of the big bands.
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00:01:52,111 --> 00:01:54,180
I was the first one
as far as I know.
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00:01:54,214 --> 00:01:57,851
My name is Billie Rogers
and I played the trumpet.
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00:01:57,884 --> 00:02:02,055
[Rosalind] I played with
the greatest female band
ever, ever.
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00:02:02,088 --> 00:02:07,360
Hi, I’m Rosalind Cron and I play
alto sax, clarinet and flute.
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00:02:07,393 --> 00:02:11,631
[Peggy ] Well, if you don’t
feel it, forget it. Because you
can’t play jazz
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00:02:11,664 --> 00:02:13,900
unless you feel it in here.
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00:02:13,933 --> 00:02:18,872
My name is Peggy Gilbert
and I play saxophone.
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00:02:25,011 --> 00:02:27,180
I knew I was going
to play the trumpet.
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00:02:27,213 --> 00:02:30,316
My mother played piano
and my father played violin.
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00:02:30,350 --> 00:02:36,022
My mother played the greatest
old ragtime jazz piano you’d
ever want to hear.
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00:02:36,055 --> 00:02:40,326
Every one of us had to be...
just think of nothing
but music, music.
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00:02:45,732 --> 00:02:49,536
We used to sit by
the Atwater Kent radio
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00:02:49,569 --> 00:02:53,473
and listen to the music coming
out of the hotels around Boston.
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00:02:53,506 --> 00:02:56,142
My dad would take us
to the dances
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00:02:56,175 --> 00:02:59,479
and stand outside the dance hall
with me on his shoulder.
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00:02:59,512 --> 00:03:02,815
And I would look through
the window and see
the trumpet players
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00:03:02,849 --> 00:03:06,986
and they would be playing
the trumpet, you know,
and do wah, do wah, do wah,
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00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:08,755
do way and I liked that.
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00:03:12,191 --> 00:03:16,329
And my father wanted me to find
a sound that I liked and that’s
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00:03:16,362 --> 00:03:20,900
what I would learn to play.
So we listened and one night
I said, "Oh, I like that."
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00:03:20,934 --> 00:03:23,269
And that was the saxophone.
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00:03:27,473 --> 00:03:31,110
I started to play saxophone
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00:03:31,144 --> 00:03:34,614
when I was a senior
in high school.
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00:03:34,647 --> 00:03:37,650
They didn’t have
many girls on instruments.
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00:03:37,684 --> 00:03:41,721
They were violins,
harpists, pianists.
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00:03:41,754 --> 00:03:44,657
[Billie] When I was about 9
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00:03:44,691 --> 00:03:46,893
we started a family band
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00:03:46,926 --> 00:03:49,662
with mother on piano
and dad on his instruments,
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00:03:49,696 --> 00:03:51,965
my older brother on his,
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00:03:51,998 --> 00:03:55,435
and I did the vocals
and played my trumpet.
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00:03:55,468 --> 00:03:58,738
They wanted me to play violin.
Well, I’m kind of lazy.
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00:03:58,771 --> 00:04:02,442
I said, "No, I don’t feel like
holding a violin on my shoulder
all day long.
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00:04:02,475 --> 00:04:03,576
I want to play something else."
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00:04:03,610 --> 00:04:05,478
He said, "Well, what do you
want to play?"
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00:04:05,511 --> 00:04:09,349
I said, "I’d like to play
trombone. I like to see that
slide go up and down."
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00:04:17,056 --> 00:04:20,994
[Viola] I was one of
eight sisters in
a family orchestra.
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00:04:21,027 --> 00:04:25,098
I happened to be the sixth one
in the family. It was time for
a drum to be added.
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00:04:25,131 --> 00:04:26,866
so I was very fortunate.
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00:04:26,899 --> 00:04:30,003
It was the easiest thing in
the world, rather than play
an instrument all night long
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00:04:30,036 --> 00:04:31,738
like the rest of
the girls had to do.
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00:04:31,771 --> 00:04:35,041
In high school, I wanted to
get to the football games,
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00:04:35,074 --> 00:04:38,578
and I thought that was
a good way to do it,
so I joined.
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00:04:38,611 --> 00:04:40,913
And they said, "How about this,
do you want to play this?"
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00:04:40,947 --> 00:04:42,148
And I said," I don’t care,
what is it?
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00:04:43,650 --> 00:04:44,851
It was a trombone.
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00:04:51,157 --> 00:04:55,194
[Billie] I never, ever saw
another girl do what I did.
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00:04:55,228 --> 00:04:59,932
I was in my twenties before
I even saw another girl
play a trumpet.
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00:04:59,966 --> 00:05:02,435
I saw women saxophone players
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00:05:02,468 --> 00:05:06,005
once when I was
about 11 or 12 years old.
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00:05:06,039 --> 00:05:11,077
My dad read in the paper that
at the Metropolitan Theater
where they had vaudeville,
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00:05:11,110 --> 00:05:12,779
they had a new act.
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00:05:12,812 --> 00:05:16,416
And because they played
the saxophone he probably
thought
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00:05:16,449 --> 00:05:18,451
I would really get
a kick out of this.
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00:05:18,484 --> 00:05:22,655
There were the Siamese twins
joined at the back
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00:05:22,689 --> 00:05:25,324
all the time on roller skates
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00:05:25,358 --> 00:05:26,893
playing the saxophone.
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00:05:28,594 --> 00:05:32,432
This is a picture I’ve never
forgotten in my entire life.
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00:05:32,465 --> 00:05:34,600
When I was coming up,
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00:05:34,634 --> 00:05:38,571
it was way back in
the vaudeville era, I had
an eight-piece girl band.
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00:05:38,604 --> 00:05:44,110
I was the bandleader and in
those days there were little
or no girl musicians.
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00:05:44,143 --> 00:05:49,849
There was Phil Spitalny and
a couple of big bands that
people today never heard of.
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00:05:52,151 --> 00:05:54,420
[jazz music playing]
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00:06:25,251 --> 00:06:30,456
It was difficult for
the individual musicians
to get booked by the male bands.
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00:06:30,490 --> 00:06:33,960
There was just an unwritten law
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00:06:33,993 --> 00:06:36,129
that they wouldn’t
hire the women.
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00:06:36,162 --> 00:06:40,466
Well I was substituting
for a man one time
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00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:44,604
and they called me and asked me
if I could jump in
and I said, "Certainly."
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00:06:44,637 --> 00:06:46,372
So I did.
89
00:06:46,405 --> 00:06:49,242
and the leader
wanted to keep me,
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00:06:49,275 --> 00:06:53,679
and all the men in the band got
together and talked the leader
out of it, because he said,
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00:06:53,713 --> 00:06:57,717
"We don’t want a girl around,
we can’t talk the way
we want to talk,
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00:06:57,750 --> 00:07:00,419
and we can’t do things
we want to do,
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00:07:00,453 --> 00:07:05,491
and we just don’t want
girl musicians. And besides
they can’t play very well.
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00:07:06,492 --> 00:07:09,128
[piano music playing]
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00:07:36,455 --> 00:07:39,458
[Carline] You put a bunch of
musicians behind a curtain
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00:07:39,492 --> 00:07:42,995
and who’s going to tell me who's
the female playing or who’s
the male playing.
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00:07:43,029 --> 00:07:45,498
You can’t do that.
The music is the thing.
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00:07:45,531 --> 00:07:46,933
That’s the important thing.
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00:07:50,436 --> 00:07:52,104
Piano players yes,
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00:07:52,872 --> 00:07:55,675
bassists maybe, guitar maybe.
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00:07:57,677 --> 00:08:00,680
But mostly piano.
They would not...
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00:08:00,713 --> 00:08:03,749
When you put the horn up
to your lip or in your mouth,
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00:08:04,584 --> 00:08:05,885
that was it.
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00:08:05,918 --> 00:08:07,053
They would not call you.
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00:08:30,343 --> 00:08:31,911
[Peggy] I knew then
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00:08:31,944 --> 00:08:37,049
I had to get a girl band,
because there was
no chance otherwise.
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00:08:37,083 --> 00:08:41,621
And I had many
wonderful musicians
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00:08:41,654 --> 00:08:46,392
to work with out here.
The place was loaded with ’em.
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00:08:46,425 --> 00:08:49,695
There were a lot of girl bands.
Ina Ray Hutton,
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00:08:49,729 --> 00:08:52,965
Sweethearts of Rhythm,
Ada Leonard...
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00:08:54,033 --> 00:08:56,836
[jazz music playing]
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00:09:07,413 --> 00:09:10,216
[Peggy] Ada Leonard
I worked with on TV
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00:09:10,249 --> 00:09:14,220
for a year at the same time
that Ina Ray Hutton was
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00:09:14,253 --> 00:09:16,222
at another studio.
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00:09:16,255 --> 00:09:20,593
And so I just played
with those bands
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00:09:20,626 --> 00:09:24,797
until I got the lay of the land
and knew what was going on.
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00:09:26,165 --> 00:09:28,634
Many of the brilliant
stars of stage,
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00:09:28,668 --> 00:09:32,605
screen and radio are graduates
of the Broadway night clubs.
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00:09:32,638 --> 00:09:37,209
One of the most glamorous of
these is that pretty
little spitfire of syncopation,
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00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:39,045
Ina Ray Hutton.
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00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:42,648
["Truckin’" playing]
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00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:03,669
[Jessie] Ina had really
good arrangers, always.
123
00:10:03,703 --> 00:10:06,772
She admired Ellington and Basie
124
00:10:06,806 --> 00:10:08,808
and we had good musicians,
and it was a good band.
125
00:10:11,377 --> 00:10:13,612
Here’s me playing in
front of the Ina Ray band.
126
00:10:14,647 --> 00:10:17,750
She had great rhythm
and knew what she wanted,
127
00:10:17,783 --> 00:10:20,720
but she was not a musician.
There was nothing
that she could play.
128
00:10:20,753 --> 00:10:22,355
But she was a great dancer.
129
00:10:23,389 --> 00:10:25,458
She was really a good dancer.
130
00:10:46,846 --> 00:10:48,581
[jazz music playing]
131
00:11:00,726 --> 00:11:05,331
We had this band that allowed us
to go and play at
the different fraternities
132
00:11:05,364 --> 00:11:08,434
and sorority dances
for blacks in those days.
133
00:11:08,467 --> 00:11:13,773
Piney Woods School was a place
for underprivileged
black children,
134
00:11:13,806 --> 00:11:15,775
they got a better education.
135
00:11:15,808 --> 00:11:18,911
Mr. Jones saw Phil Spitalny’s
group and said,
136
00:11:18,944 --> 00:11:21,547
"Well I have enough girls
here that play instruments.
137
00:11:21,580 --> 00:11:23,682
Why don’t I start
a girls’ band too?"
138
00:11:24,450 --> 00:11:26,118
Mr. Jones,
139
00:11:26,152 --> 00:11:30,856
had some Mexican girls that he
let come to Piney Woods
to go to school.
140
00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:33,559
We also had
a Chinese girl there, and so
141
00:11:33,592 --> 00:11:35,961
one of the people
that worked there said,
142
00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:38,531
"So why don’t you call it
The International
Sweethearts of Rhythm?
143
00:11:38,564 --> 00:11:40,099
Because you got
different nationalities."
144
00:11:40,132 --> 00:11:42,968
So that’s how we got
the name International
Sweethearts of Rhythm.
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00:11:44,103 --> 00:11:46,972
["Jump Children" playing]
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00:12:02,254 --> 00:12:05,191
[Carline] Anna Mae Winburn
was the director of the band.
147
00:12:05,224 --> 00:12:07,493
She was like
a front for the orchestra,
148
00:12:07,526 --> 00:12:10,229
for the band.
She looked great all the time.
149
00:12:10,262 --> 00:12:12,932
[Anna Mae] I had
a male band in Omaha, Nebraska
150
00:12:12,965 --> 00:12:15,568
called Anna Mae Winburn
and the Cotton Club Boys.
151
00:12:15,601 --> 00:12:19,972
Then here come the Sweethearts
to Omaha and I said,
oh gee, aren’t they cute?
152
00:12:20,005 --> 00:12:23,075
You know, these beautiful,
little innocent girls,
you know.
153
00:12:23,109 --> 00:12:25,744
So they said, "Rae Lee Jones
154
00:12:25,778 --> 00:12:28,948
wants somebody to direct
the Sweethearts of Rhythm."
155
00:12:28,981 --> 00:12:32,818
I said, "Gee, I don’t know if
I can get along with
that many women or not."
156
00:12:32,852 --> 00:12:37,089
[Willie Mae] Anna Mae Winburn
was like a mother figure to us.
157
00:12:38,290 --> 00:12:41,727
She helped us
in meeting the public,
158
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,730
mainly keeping
away from the men.
159
00:12:44,763 --> 00:12:48,367
And the fact of the matter,
she taught us the facts of life.
160
00:13:01,413 --> 00:13:03,349
["The Lady Who Swings
the Band" playing]
161
00:13:08,988 --> 00:13:11,190
[Dr. Taylor]
I knew Mary Lou Williams
very well.
162
00:13:11,223 --> 00:13:13,459
She was a wonderful human being
163
00:13:13,492 --> 00:13:16,629
and I admired her
because she was one
of the best players.
164
00:13:16,662 --> 00:13:22,334
Her style covered from ragtime
to bebop and beyond that.
165
00:13:22,368 --> 00:13:25,070
I mean, she was
with Andy Kirk’s band.
166
00:13:25,104 --> 00:13:29,909
That was a fine band of that
period, and she arranged
for them, she played for them.
167
00:13:29,942 --> 00:13:31,544
She was marvelous.
168
00:13:31,577 --> 00:13:36,148
By the time Mary Lou was 15
and 16, she is
the consummate professional.
169
00:13:36,182 --> 00:13:40,886
She is playing with some of
the top bands of that time.
McKinney Cotton Pickers,
170
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,090
which was one of the top groups
to come out of
that Midwest experience.
171
00:13:45,124 --> 00:13:50,162
When Mary Lou comes into
the whole Andy Kirk
Organization,
172
00:13:50,196 --> 00:13:52,765
she is caught between
two worlds in many ways.
173
00:13:52,798 --> 00:13:57,069
Because Mary Lou has come
out of this Black
urban experience
that is rooted
174
00:13:57,102 --> 00:13:59,939
very much in this
Southern vernacular culture,
175
00:13:59,972 --> 00:14:03,209
and she moves
to this Midwest environment,
176
00:14:03,242 --> 00:14:07,146
where the concepts of racial
consciousness
are very different for Blacks.
177
00:14:07,179 --> 00:14:12,818
So you get someone like
Andy Kirk whose aspirations were
to be the black Guy Lombardo,
178
00:14:12,851 --> 00:14:16,422
He didn’t want to be
stigmatized and marginalized
in the way that
179
00:14:16,455 --> 00:14:19,024
Black bands were being
at that time.
180
00:14:19,058 --> 00:14:23,662
He wanted to do
the full range of
Big Band music.
181
00:14:23,696 --> 00:14:25,731
Without Mary Lou’s
arrangements,
182
00:14:25,764 --> 00:14:30,769
and without Mary Lou kind
of serving as the engine
of the rhythm section,
183
00:14:30,803 --> 00:14:37,209
Andy Kirk’s sound would
not have moved outside
of those regional circles
of the Midwest.
184
00:14:37,243 --> 00:14:40,412
[Dr. Taylor] She was literally
the lady who swung the band.
185
00:14:40,446 --> 00:14:42,948
["The Lady Who Swings
the Band" playing]
186
00:14:49,822 --> 00:14:53,459
My junior year in
high school is when they got,
187
00:14:53,492 --> 00:14:56,195
when they brought in
the new innovations
with the bands,
188
00:14:56,228 --> 00:14:59,198
the marching band
and the swing band.
189
00:14:59,231 --> 00:15:03,402
So that is the way I started.
My band director
190
00:15:03,435 --> 00:15:07,873
had gone to college with
a man who was teaching Band
191
00:15:07,906 --> 00:15:09,742
at Prairie View College.
192
00:15:09,775 --> 00:15:13,612
And they had an all-girl band,
and he needed
a trumpet player.
193
00:15:13,646 --> 00:15:16,048
So, that’s where I went.
194
00:15:16,081 --> 00:15:18,350
[jazz music playing]
195
00:15:32,431 --> 00:15:36,935
And here’s a great picture of me
taken in a hotel room.
This was a publicity thing.
196
00:15:36,969 --> 00:15:39,872
When I was playing trombone,
Tommy Dorsey was it.
197
00:15:40,839 --> 00:15:42,875
And then I met him.
198
00:15:42,908 --> 00:15:45,277
I had a one-nighter
with Tommy Dorsey.
199
00:15:46,478 --> 00:15:47,846
How about that?
200
00:15:49,615 --> 00:15:51,317
Not the best I ever had.
201
00:15:55,688 --> 00:16:01,760
[Peggy] That was
an exciting time.
But you always
had that one thing
202
00:16:01,794 --> 00:16:03,429
to confront you.
203
00:16:03,462 --> 00:16:07,599
The agent would
come up to me and say,
"We can’t use that girl.
204
00:16:07,633 --> 00:16:11,270
She’s - you gotta get
somebody that looks better.
205
00:16:12,705 --> 00:16:17,142
And don’t forget
to smile at the women."
206
00:16:18,510 --> 00:16:20,412
How could you smile
207
00:16:20,446 --> 00:16:22,448
with a horn in your mouth?
208
00:16:22,481 --> 00:16:26,018
[jazz music playing]
209
00:16:35,394 --> 00:16:39,365
[Rosalind]
I did get a call from
the Ada Leonard Orchestra
210
00:16:39,398 --> 00:16:44,670
which was rehearsing and going
to open at the Oriental
Theater in Chicago,
211
00:16:44,703 --> 00:16:48,507
and I said, "Yes, yes,"
and I was so excited.
212
00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:54,046
After some rehearsals that
week we were shown our costume,
213
00:16:54,079 --> 00:16:56,281
and out comes this
214
00:16:56,315 --> 00:17:00,452
God-awful pink thing
with flounces.
215
00:17:00,486 --> 00:17:05,424
And it had all these flares
and pink ruffles
and I was mortified.
216
00:17:05,457 --> 00:17:10,496
I’m a professional. I wear
a skirt, a sweater or a blouse,
217
00:17:10,529 --> 00:17:12,698
a white blouse with
a little black tie.
I don’t wear
218
00:17:12,731 --> 00:17:17,136
pink ruffles. And I, I hated
that gown with a passion.
219
00:17:17,169 --> 00:17:20,539
Females were not looked on in
the same, with the same
attitude -
220
00:17:20,572 --> 00:17:21,840
shall we use
the word "attitude"?
221
00:17:22,808 --> 00:17:25,477
...as male musicians were.
222
00:17:25,511 --> 00:17:28,046
Well,most of them
treated us as novelties.
223
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,984
Unusual, and people thought
it was cute, you know.
224
00:17:34,353 --> 00:17:38,190
On our first show
when the curtain went up
225
00:17:38,223 --> 00:17:40,626
the audience went insane.
226
00:17:40,659 --> 00:17:44,263
They were clapping and stomping
and carrying on and whistling.
227
00:17:44,296 --> 00:17:47,866
We hadn’t really played
much. We’d only played
a couple of notes.
228
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,837
And so after it died down
and then an act came on,
229
00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:54,473
I sort of whispered
to the girl next to me,
230
00:17:54,506 --> 00:17:59,645
"Why the big reception?"
And she told me,"Well, Ada
was a striptease artist."
231
00:17:59,678 --> 00:18:01,713
Oh, I thought
that was hilarious.
232
00:18:07,052 --> 00:18:12,257
[Viola] We all had to have
long hair, and we could not
be seen with saddle shoes.
233
00:18:12,291 --> 00:18:16,395
To be wearing saddle shoes
meant we must be gay.
234
00:18:21,633 --> 00:18:25,404
Men’s bands always
wore the same uniforms.
235
00:18:30,409 --> 00:18:34,880
The guys can have white hair
and glasses
and weigh 300 pounds,
236
00:18:34,913 --> 00:18:40,552
but if they can play, great.
The girls they want
to look like
a bunch of young starlets.
237
00:18:40,586 --> 00:18:44,022
And the things they
put on us were unbelievable.
238
00:18:47,292 --> 00:18:49,995
[jazz music playing]
239
00:18:53,065 --> 00:18:57,269
I played for a short time
with Georgie Graham’s Big Band
240
00:18:57,302 --> 00:19:00,038
and he was playing in New York
when he heard about
241
00:19:00,072 --> 00:19:02,074
the International
Sweethearts of Rhythm
242
00:19:02,107 --> 00:19:07,980
and the manager,
Mrs. Raley Jones, asked if he
knew of a saxophone player
243
00:19:08,013 --> 00:19:11,116
and so he thought
of me immediately.
He called me up.
244
00:19:11,149 --> 00:19:15,354
He introduced me to Mrs. Jones
on the phone and, and
245
00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:17,789
she did mention that
it was a Colored big band,
246
00:19:17,823 --> 00:19:22,060
and would I have
any problems? No problems.
247
00:19:22,094 --> 00:19:27,599
I told my mom and dad.
And I didn’t ask them,
I more or less told them.
248
00:19:27,633 --> 00:19:31,603
They knew I was chomping at
the bit. I just had to go
back on the road.
249
00:19:31,637 --> 00:19:36,341
I walked in and there was
everybody in the band, getting
ready for the night’s gig.
250
00:19:36,375 --> 00:19:38,343
And I was going to wear
251
00:19:38,377 --> 00:19:41,213
a skirt and a white blouse
and a jacket.
252
00:19:41,246 --> 00:19:46,685
and there was this magnificent
brass section behind me
and rhythm section,
253
00:19:46,718 --> 00:19:48,420
and I just knew I -
254
00:19:48,453 --> 00:19:50,122
I was in the right place.
255
00:19:50,155 --> 00:19:53,025
[jazz music playing]
256
00:20:18,283 --> 00:20:20,519
[Rosalind] It was a lot of fun.
257
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:26,425
The fun lasted until
we started doing one-nighters
258
00:20:26,458 --> 00:20:28,660
in the South.
259
00:20:28,694 --> 00:20:31,863
Anna Mae mentioned
something to the effect
260
00:20:31,897 --> 00:20:33,999
that we’re going
to Jim Crow country.
261
00:20:34,032 --> 00:20:36,034
I had been in the south
with Ada Leonard.
262
00:20:36,068 --> 00:20:38,403
Nobody had mentioned
this man’s name.
263
00:20:38,437 --> 00:20:41,607
Of course I’d never met him.
So, I guess I’m going to
meet him now.
264
00:20:44,943 --> 00:20:48,847
And then I learned
that Jim Crow is a set of laws
265
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,517
that was set up to
keep Black people
266
00:20:52,551 --> 00:20:57,222
as far removed from whites
as humanly possible.
267
00:20:57,255 --> 00:21:00,092
[Peggy]
They wouldn’t stand
for us mixing.
268
00:21:00,125 --> 00:21:04,429
I was dying to get hold of
a girl one time that was
a trumpet player
269
00:21:04,463 --> 00:21:06,732
and she was just great.
270
00:21:06,765 --> 00:21:10,068
and I wanted to put her
in the band, you know?
271
00:21:10,102 --> 00:21:14,339
And they said, "We can’t do it
because there are
a lot of people
272
00:21:14,373 --> 00:21:17,943
that would object
to a mixed racial band."
273
00:21:28,353 --> 00:21:32,691
Well, traveling through
the South was something
you’d really like to forget,
274
00:21:32,724 --> 00:21:35,827
some of the experiences
you had, you know. Like
275
00:21:35,861 --> 00:21:41,233
we’d pull into a service station
and the guy would come out with
his gun and say we don’t
276
00:21:41,266 --> 00:21:45,270
have any Black toilets.
You need to go out
in the field and squat.
277
00:21:50,042 --> 00:21:52,377
[Carline]
The band had its own bus,
278
00:21:52,411 --> 00:21:55,881
upper and lower berths
like a Pullman car.
279
00:21:55,914 --> 00:21:58,617
And that was
our home on wheels.
280
00:21:58,650 --> 00:22:00,419
Had a little bathroom
in the back.
281
00:22:00,452 --> 00:22:07,192
There was great danger for
the band, for everybody in
the band, for our bus driver.
282
00:22:07,225 --> 00:22:13,365
We all found it was much easier
if I just stayed, in very
dangerous places, in the bus.
283
00:22:13,398 --> 00:22:16,535
I also remember
some places they
would accept you,
284
00:22:16,568 --> 00:22:18,537
some places didn’t
have room
for you, you know.
285
00:22:18,570 --> 00:22:21,807
If we didn’t sleep on the bus,
we wouldn’t have
a place to stay.
286
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,177
[Carline] We played theaters,
we played dance halls.
287
00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:27,012
If we were in a theater,
288
00:22:27,045 --> 00:22:29,781
the white folks would
be downstairs
289
00:22:29,815 --> 00:22:32,384
and the ropes would be
dividing the Blacks
and the Whites.
290
00:22:33,885 --> 00:22:36,555
[Rosalind] Everything was
segregated. Everything.
291
00:22:36,588 --> 00:22:39,958
There could be no
fraternization
between the races.
292
00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:47,999
The problems of traveling
in the South were the same
293
00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:51,169
for male bands
as they were for female bands.
294
00:22:51,203 --> 00:22:55,006
But the women had it a lot
rougher, just because
they were women.
295
00:22:57,809 --> 00:23:01,980
[Rosalind] There were always
a group of women who
would open their homes
296
00:23:02,013 --> 00:23:05,984
to traveling musicians,
and they were saints.
297
00:23:06,017 --> 00:23:08,420
There was never a question
298
00:23:08,453 --> 00:23:12,524
that I couldn’t stay in their
homes, even though
it was putting them
299
00:23:12,557 --> 00:23:14,392
in grave danger.
300
00:23:14,426 --> 00:23:15,761
Real jeopardy.
301
00:23:17,529 --> 00:23:20,899
There were times on
bandstands when it became
302
00:23:20,932 --> 00:23:23,502
pretty tricky because
I was right there
303
00:23:23,535 --> 00:23:26,404
in the front row playing alto.
304
00:23:26,438 --> 00:23:28,406
There was no way
to hide my face.
305
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,079
Well, in those days there was
a lot of bedroom integration.
306
00:23:34,112 --> 00:23:37,883
And there were a lot of
black girls that had
white parents, you know, I mean,
307
00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:40,952
so - I’m black,
308
00:23:40,986 --> 00:23:44,856
my mother’s black. You wanna go
see her? And they said, "No, we
don’t want to go see
309
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:48,827
your mother, we want to know,
you know, what nationality
you are."
310
00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:53,498
Mrs. Jones thought that possibly
the girls could come up
with a way to
311
00:23:53,532 --> 00:23:59,104
either darken my skin,
or make it
a shade that would be -
312
00:23:59,137 --> 00:24:02,073
not be off-putting to sheriffs
313
00:24:02,107 --> 00:24:05,811
who were sniffing around,
trying to determine if
I was white or not.
314
00:24:05,844 --> 00:24:11,650
Ah, and we tried different
face powders and really
315
00:24:11,683 --> 00:24:14,820
it - I just turned orange
for the most part.
316
00:24:14,853 --> 00:24:18,824
See, we had so many
mixed girls in the band,
you know.
317
00:24:18,857 --> 00:24:21,493
The police came and he says to
my husband - my husband was
manager at that time -
318
00:24:21,526 --> 00:24:22,460
and he says,
319
00:24:22,494 --> 00:24:24,462
"You have white girls
in this band."
320
00:24:24,496 --> 00:24:28,567
And my husband said,
"If you can pick out
the one that’s white
and you arrest them."
321
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,102
And the one he picked out
was the mulatto.
322
00:24:31,136 --> 00:24:32,270
[laughter]
323
00:24:32,304 --> 00:24:34,639
He never did pick out
the white one, you know.
324
00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:45,050
[Rosalind] Soon we’re heading
back to the Williams house
for sweet potato pie.
325
00:24:45,083 --> 00:24:49,254
"We get lots of hugs from
Mrs. Williams, and a bag
of food for each of us.
326
00:24:49,287 --> 00:24:52,524
As we climb aboard the bus
she calls, "Bye, chillen.
327
00:24:52,557 --> 00:24:56,628
Y’all take care of each other
and we’ll pray to the good
Lord to look after you."
328
00:24:56,661 --> 00:24:59,164
I reach out through
the open bus window,
329
00:24:59,197 --> 00:25:04,336
grab Mrs. Williams’ hand
and say, "I know how much
courage it took for you to take
me into your home
330
00:25:04,369 --> 00:25:05,737
and I will never forget you."
331
00:25:05,770 --> 00:25:07,973
And I’ve not forgotten."
332
00:25:09,274 --> 00:25:10,809
Those were rough days.
333
00:25:11,810 --> 00:25:14,846
Rough times. Scary times.
334
00:25:18,783 --> 00:25:22,320
I was surrounded by
the girls with so much love
335
00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:26,925
and then so many times
I felt so embarrassed
for my race,
336
00:25:26,958 --> 00:25:30,595
so humiliated by them.
I wanted to lash out at them.
337
00:25:31,363 --> 00:25:32,831
And of course I couldn’t.
338
00:25:36,735 --> 00:25:40,138
Well, why don’t you
and the girls warm up
for the jam session.
339
00:25:40,171 --> 00:25:42,674
Okay, suits me.
Let’s take it, girls.
340
00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:47,879
[Rosalind] The white world was
completely unaware of us.
341
00:25:47,913 --> 00:25:51,283
Not only were we told,
but we knew, we were the best.
342
00:25:51,316 --> 00:25:54,386
But we couldn’t
get that point across
343
00:25:54,419 --> 00:25:57,222
because we couldn’t play
the places that we
wanted to play.
344
00:25:57,255 --> 00:25:59,991
I played with
the Ada Leonard band
345
00:26:00,025 --> 00:26:03,361
one show, and then
346
00:26:03,395 --> 00:26:05,397
after that, the next day,
347
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:08,800
they said the studio
had gotten all these calls.
348
00:26:08,833 --> 00:26:13,672
This TV show that
was doing real good,
349
00:26:13,705 --> 00:26:17,309
they had gotten calls
to get the nigger
off the show.
350
00:26:17,342 --> 00:26:19,611
I didn’t have a solo,
351
00:26:19,644 --> 00:26:21,880
but they didn’t want me
up there in the band.
352
00:26:24,282 --> 00:26:26,451
That was a hurting thing.
353
00:26:40,298 --> 00:26:41,633
[President Roosevelt]
Yesterday,
354
00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:44,235
December 7,
355
00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:47,205
1941,
356
00:26:48,974 --> 00:26:53,044
a date which will
live in infamy.
357
00:26:54,546 --> 00:26:59,517
When the war came along,
and all the men
were gone practically,
358
00:26:59,551 --> 00:27:00,752
the musicians were
359
00:27:01,553 --> 00:27:03,955
scarce to find then
360
00:27:03,989 --> 00:27:06,191
I got a lot of work.
361
00:27:06,224 --> 00:27:10,729
We have a right to be proud of
the part American women
are playing in this war.
362
00:27:10,762 --> 00:27:15,333
We found that the hand that
rocks the cradle can build
bombers, make ammunition,
363
00:27:15,367 --> 00:27:18,303
can turn every kitchen
into a salvage station
364
00:27:18,336 --> 00:27:20,238
for vitally needed
war materials.
365
00:27:20,271 --> 00:27:24,376
There is a job for each
and every one of us and it is
our duty to find that job.
366
00:27:25,844 --> 00:27:28,613
I remember during the war there
were a lot of girl musicians
367
00:27:28,646 --> 00:27:32,150
with the male bands.
Billie Rogers was
with Woody Herman.
368
00:27:32,183 --> 00:27:36,521
In 1941, I headed down
toward California.
369
00:27:36,554 --> 00:27:40,525
And some friends of mine
had put a band together,
370
00:27:40,558 --> 00:27:45,296
three other gals out at
a club in Culver City.
371
00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:47,999
In a very short period of time,
372
00:27:48,033 --> 00:27:50,769
we were practically
packing the joint every night.
373
00:27:50,802 --> 00:27:56,207
One night Woody Herman’s
road manager came into the club.
374
00:27:56,241 --> 00:28:01,046
And he invited me over to
his table for a drink
during intermission,
375
00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:07,018
and told me Woody was looking
for some kind
of special attraction
376
00:28:07,052 --> 00:28:10,588
to take on the road with him
when they headed East.
377
00:28:10,622 --> 00:28:14,359
Arrangements were made for me
to go to the recording studio
378
00:28:14,392 --> 00:28:18,063
and audition in front
of Woody and the band.
379
00:28:18,096 --> 00:28:22,133
I just sang a couple of songs,
and played my horn
380
00:28:22,167 --> 00:28:23,868
and Woody hired me.
381
00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:27,806
Surprise, Woody hired me.
382
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:30,508
[jazz music playing]
383
00:28:42,287 --> 00:28:48,960
[Peggy] All of us were playing
ballrooms and theaters
and everything.
384
00:28:48,993 --> 00:28:52,697
[Announcer]On my left are
the Sweethearts of Rhythm,
one of America’s top
all-girl bands,
385
00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:55,500
directed by Anna Mae Winburn.
Jack, they are ready.
386
00:28:55,533 --> 00:28:58,970
- Are you ready girls?
- [women] Yeah!
387
00:28:59,003 --> 00:29:01,639
[Rosalind] The black
servicemen heard us
388
00:29:01,673 --> 00:29:05,076
all over the Far East
and Europe,
389
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:10,715
and they were so excited
about hearing
a black female band,
390
00:29:10,748 --> 00:29:14,018
that they wanted us.
They just bombarded the USO.
391
00:29:14,052 --> 00:29:18,623
[Willie Mae] We played a lot
of USO camps
for the Armed Service.
392
00:29:20,792 --> 00:29:23,761
[Rosalind] We got to
Le Havre, France.
393
00:29:23,795 --> 00:29:27,499
We played the Olympia
Theater in Paris.
394
00:29:27,532 --> 00:29:31,436
Then we went on for
five and a half months.
395
00:29:31,469 --> 00:29:34,873
We drove through snow
and rain and what have you.
396
00:29:34,906 --> 00:29:38,443
And we met
the most wonderful men,
397
00:29:38,476 --> 00:29:40,879
white and Black.
398
00:29:40,912 --> 00:29:43,214
That’s when we
discovered Quartermasters.
399
00:29:43,248 --> 00:29:46,417
They really outfitted us.
They gave us long johns,
400
00:29:46,451 --> 00:29:50,255
underwear, mittens
and wool caps.
401
00:29:50,288 --> 00:29:53,525
Everything we needed to
get through a German winter.
402
00:29:53,558 --> 00:29:56,995
[Clora] We played all
the military bases,
403
00:29:57,028 --> 00:29:59,063
but when we played Tuskegee,
404
00:30:00,165 --> 00:30:03,067
we played for
the Tuskegee Airmen.
405
00:30:03,101 --> 00:30:07,138
And they had just become
selected as the ones
who would escort
406
00:30:07,172 --> 00:30:09,807
the white fliers in Italy.
407
00:30:09,841 --> 00:30:14,345
It had rained, and so we
couldn’t walk in the mud,
you know,
408
00:30:14,379 --> 00:30:17,215
with the high heel shoes
and stuff like that.
409
00:30:17,248 --> 00:30:20,552
And so we had to be
picked up by these guys.
410
00:30:20,585 --> 00:30:25,290
I had never been in
a man’s arms.
Oh, my goodness.
411
00:30:25,323 --> 00:30:28,726
I can’t explain to you how
I felt. That felt so good.
412
00:30:30,361 --> 00:30:35,133
[Rosalind] It was the most
exciting time ever, ever.
413
00:30:35,166 --> 00:30:37,669
[Willie Mae]
I felt like a sweetheart.
414
00:30:37,702 --> 00:30:40,905
[jazz music playing]
415
00:30:52,951 --> 00:30:54,986
[Marian] I joined USO
416
00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:59,390
and everybody would say, oh,
you’re going to love working
with the Americans
417
00:30:59,424 --> 00:31:04,896
and I did. That’s where I met
my husband, Jimmy McPartland.
418
00:31:04,929 --> 00:31:08,566
[music continues]
419
00:31:27,552 --> 00:31:31,022
[Marian] Finally the war ended
and we came to The States.
420
00:31:36,761 --> 00:31:39,397
[Rosalind]
We went overseas on
a liberty ship
421
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:41,799
and came back
on a victory ship.
422
00:31:41,833 --> 00:31:44,969
We came back with 3,000 GI’s.
423
00:31:45,003 --> 00:31:46,638
The war was over.
424
00:31:48,806 --> 00:31:52,310
[jazz music playing]
425
00:31:58,750 --> 00:32:02,654
Seven of us left
the Sweethearts
the day we embarked
426
00:32:02,687 --> 00:32:04,756
on the ship taking us
back to New York.
427
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:07,759
The band was together
for over 15 years,
428
00:32:07,792 --> 00:32:10,361
and after we came
back from Germany
429
00:32:10,395 --> 00:32:12,997
and everything the girls
wanted to do
something different.
430
00:32:13,031 --> 00:32:15,900
Our, our drummer got married.
431
00:32:15,933 --> 00:32:18,736
And different girls wanted
to do different things,
you know.
432
00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:22,373
They thought, "Well, it’s
time for us to move on."
433
00:32:22,407 --> 00:32:28,212
[Rosalind] When I returned home
there was really no work for me
because the young soldiers
were coming back.
434
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,250
[Peggy]
We were playing
the Figueroa Ballroom
435
00:32:32,283 --> 00:32:34,952
and one time we
came back to work
436
00:32:34,986 --> 00:32:40,858
and all our instruments
and music and everything
was in disarray.
437
00:32:40,892 --> 00:32:46,264
And I said, I went
to the boss and said,
"What’s happened here?"
438
00:32:46,297 --> 00:32:49,667
And he said,
"Well, the band’s coming back.
439
00:32:49,701 --> 00:32:52,837
"They were here today
and they had a rehearsal."
440
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:55,406
And he said Peg,
"You know how it is.
441
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,077
I told them when they got out
of service they could
come back to work."
442
00:32:59,110 --> 00:33:04,482
I said, "You mean we don’t even
get a two week notice?"
And he said,"No."
443
00:33:04,515 --> 00:33:07,352
And that’s what
happened in a lot of places.
444
00:33:07,385 --> 00:33:10,755
[Viola]
This was the end
of that wonderful era.
445
00:33:10,788 --> 00:33:13,458
Some of them
continued with the girls,
446
00:33:13,491 --> 00:33:16,928
but it seems that a lot of girls
had to go back to the kitchen.
447
00:33:17,762 --> 00:33:20,631
["San Fernando Valley" playing]
448
00:33:30,141 --> 00:33:31,809
[jazz music playing]
449
00:33:38,249 --> 00:33:43,087
[Marian] Mary Osborne
is one of the best guitarists
of all time.
450
00:33:43,121 --> 00:33:46,057
Wonderful guitarist.
451
00:33:46,090 --> 00:33:49,827
She gave up a wonderful
television show she
had in New York,
452
00:33:49,861 --> 00:33:54,665
moved to Bakersfield of all
things because her husband
got a job there.
453
00:33:54,699 --> 00:33:57,535
And she looked
after her two kids
454
00:33:57,568 --> 00:34:01,973
and never did receive
the acclaim she should have.
455
00:34:03,441 --> 00:34:08,112
[Peggy] There was a fellow that
wrote a big, long,
almost full-page letter
456
00:34:08,146 --> 00:34:11,549
about how bad girl
musicians were.
457
00:34:12,884 --> 00:34:15,520
And I read that article,
and I couldn’t stand it.
458
00:34:15,553 --> 00:34:19,590
You know from a physical
standpoint it would seem
that women in music
459
00:34:19,624 --> 00:34:22,160
do best when they
play the piano
460
00:34:22,193 --> 00:34:26,197
and this is probably because it
takes less physical effort
to play the piano
461
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:29,167
than, say, a wind instrument
or for that matter, the drums.
462
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,236
That’s just a theory,
of course,
but the fact remains that
463
00:34:32,270 --> 00:34:35,106
there are quite a few girls
playing mighty good piano,
464
00:34:35,139 --> 00:34:37,942
but almost none
that play good trumpet.
465
00:34:37,975 --> 00:34:40,478
Tonight’s special
guest star of jazz
466
00:34:40,511 --> 00:34:43,114
is probably just about
the best of the whole lot.
467
00:34:43,147 --> 00:34:45,950
Her name is Marian McPartland.
468
00:34:54,492 --> 00:34:58,429
There was a lot of music on
the BBC, and I would just sit
down and play everything.
469
00:34:58,463 --> 00:35:02,633
I know millions of tunes that
I’ve never seen the music to.
470
00:35:05,169 --> 00:35:07,371
I was about four,
I suppose,
471
00:35:07,405 --> 00:35:11,576
and they made a great fuss
of me that I could play
472
00:35:11,609 --> 00:35:15,847
and I played from then on.
I played in kindergarten
for the kids.
473
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,882
I became a real ham.
474
00:35:25,923 --> 00:35:29,227
I was offered a job by
475
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:36,100
a man named Billy Mayo who
wanted me to join his
four piano vaudeville act.
476
00:35:37,101 --> 00:35:40,438
And of course I was
thrilled to do that
477
00:35:40,471 --> 00:35:44,075
And I went and told my mother,
and father and they hated
478
00:35:44,108 --> 00:35:49,347
the idea that I would
do anything so
low down.
479
00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:52,550
And think of
the terrible people you’ll meet.
480
00:35:52,583 --> 00:35:59,524
And you’ll marry a musician
and live in an attic.
my mother sobbed.
481
00:36:00,758 --> 00:36:04,195
And of course, that’s what
I did do much later on.
482
00:36:06,664 --> 00:36:09,867
My husband Jimmy
was a well known
483
00:36:09,901 --> 00:36:13,838
trumpet player in Chicago.
When we arrived in New York,
484
00:36:13,871 --> 00:36:17,475
Jimmy wanted to show
me all the jazz places.
485
00:36:17,508 --> 00:36:22,013
And I sat in, to let everybody
know I knew all the tunes.
486
00:36:22,046 --> 00:36:24,682
[Marian] When I was at
The Hickory House
487
00:36:24,715 --> 00:36:27,718
I could see I was
in the middle of this
488
00:36:27,752 --> 00:36:30,688
kind of male chauvinism thing,
489
00:36:30,721 --> 00:36:34,492
where male musicians
didn’t want to work with women.
490
00:36:35,426 --> 00:36:39,830
They had the idea
that their playing was
491
00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:44,936
delicate and frilly
and all that
ridiculous stuff. In fact,
492
00:36:44,969 --> 00:36:48,706
people used to pay me
a compliment, they
thought it was:
493
00:36:50,107 --> 00:36:53,578
"You play well for a girl."
494
00:36:53,611 --> 00:36:58,950
I said, "I know some
men that sound like girls."
495
00:36:58,983 --> 00:37:01,619
I didn’t name any names,
496
00:37:01,652 --> 00:37:04,255
- but there were some.
- We have to understand that
497
00:37:04,288 --> 00:37:07,091
the men felt that they,
this was their domain.
498
00:37:07,124 --> 00:37:10,428
["Loneliness Ends
with Love" playing]
499
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:22,506
Now first of all, to them,
a woman, if she’s going to do
anything in the band,
should have been a singer.
500
00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:25,142
Go out front, be cute
and sing a song.
501
00:37:27,678 --> 00:37:30,448
And if you were
a musician, you were a man.
502
00:37:30,481 --> 00:37:33,217
If you were a woman anywhere
around the band you were
a singer.
503
00:37:33,250 --> 00:37:34,485
To be an instrumentalist?
504
00:37:34,518 --> 00:37:36,988
No, no, no, no.
You don’t belong in that world.
505
00:38:16,260 --> 00:38:20,431
[Billy ] Vi Redd was a woman
I admired greatly.
506
00:38:20,464 --> 00:38:24,335
A lot of people said that she
was the female Charlie Parker.
507
00:38:24,368 --> 00:38:29,607
She wasn’t the female anything.
She was a very,
very excellent player.
508
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,577
She had her own identity that
didn’t get a chance to develop
509
00:38:33,611 --> 00:38:39,917
so that she could make the same
kind of contribution that many
of her male counterparts
510
00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:42,019
were doing at that time.
511
00:38:42,053 --> 00:38:44,088
And that had to
be frustrating for her.
512
00:38:48,059 --> 00:38:51,662
Some of the most powerful
players that I’ve ever heard
513
00:38:51,696 --> 00:38:54,498
were women jazz players.
514
00:38:54,532 --> 00:38:57,068
For anyone to say that
they are not playing -
515
00:38:57,101 --> 00:39:02,606
not swinging as hard,
or have the same
kind of force
516
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,109
in their playing,
it’s not true.
517
00:39:05,142 --> 00:39:06,343
It’s simply not true.
518
00:39:17,121 --> 00:39:20,091
[Gene Norman] Honestly, did you
consider that you’re working
under a handicap
519
00:39:20,124 --> 00:39:23,728
to try to make a profession
as a jazz pianist as a woman?
520
00:39:23,761 --> 00:39:28,132
Well, it has never been
a handicap Gene, truly.
And I really don’t
think about it.
521
00:39:28,165 --> 00:39:31,969
I think of myself as a musician
working with other musicians.
522
00:39:32,002 --> 00:39:34,305
I’ve never -
523
00:39:34,338 --> 00:39:36,674
[Gene] As a matter of fact,
now that I consider it myself,
I think it’s a great advantage
since you’re so decorative.
524
00:39:44,181 --> 00:39:46,484
["Chicago" playing]
525
00:40:02,433 --> 00:40:07,638
Lil Armstrong and I were
pretty good friends
at that time.
526
00:40:07,671 --> 00:40:12,576
She was married to
Louis Armstrong.
Even she had a tough time.
527
00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:15,179
[Marian] We went
to live in Chicago
528
00:40:15,212 --> 00:40:17,715
and she invited me
to her house.
529
00:40:17,748 --> 00:40:20,251
She played for me
and I played for her.
530
00:40:30,427 --> 00:40:35,232
And she wrote some
very good tunes,
one of which was
531
00:40:35,266 --> 00:40:39,203
a standard tune that
everybody plays,
"Just for a Thrill".
532
00:40:41,939 --> 00:40:44,875
["Just for a Thrill playing]
533
00:41:50,808 --> 00:41:57,815
Lil Hardin was a very important
influence for, for you know,
the whole history of music.
534
00:41:57,848 --> 00:42:00,050
The Hot Five,
that was her group
535
00:42:00,084 --> 00:42:05,089
that she really had
conceptualized, in terms
of how the band functioned.
536
00:42:05,122 --> 00:42:08,492
And Louis Armstrong,
as her very innovative,
537
00:42:08,525 --> 00:42:12,930
brilliant husband, became
the leader of that group.
But that was her group first.
538
00:42:14,365 --> 00:42:18,002
[Hardin singing
"Just for a Thrill"]
539
00:42:21,105 --> 00:42:25,576
[Marian ] I don’t know
why Lil Armstrong
didn’t get as much
540
00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:29,280
recognition as Louis did.
541
00:42:29,313 --> 00:42:33,651
Amazingly enough,
she died while playing.
542
00:42:33,684 --> 00:42:37,955
She just fell off
the bench and died.
543
00:42:37,988 --> 00:42:42,459
And I must say it’s
a wonderful way to die,
if you have to die.
544
00:42:51,468 --> 00:42:54,338
[Billie] In those days
you traveled by train
545
00:42:54,371 --> 00:42:56,707
or by car, by bus.
546
00:42:58,409 --> 00:43:00,778
We eventually made
our way to New York.
547
00:43:00,811 --> 00:43:05,482
My whole life had just
changed so much,
practically overnight.
548
00:43:09,687 --> 00:43:12,289
Going into New York,
let me tell you about that.
549
00:43:12,323 --> 00:43:16,226
I knew the reputation
of the Apollo Theater.
550
00:43:20,564 --> 00:43:22,633
And to be backstage,
551
00:43:22,666 --> 00:43:26,070
and then I had a solo.
The first number
552
00:43:26,103 --> 00:43:28,172
was called "Back Beat Boogie".
553
00:43:28,205 --> 00:43:30,874
Harry James’ recording of it.
554
00:43:32,876 --> 00:43:36,847
We did stock arrangements,
and you played it
note for note.
555
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:41,986
Rat dat dat dat,
dat dat dat dat,
I had to walk downstage
556
00:43:42,019 --> 00:43:43,687
with this long dress on.
557
00:43:43,721 --> 00:43:48,092
My knees were shaking, you know,
but I had a long dress on
so they couldn’t see it.
558
00:43:48,125 --> 00:43:53,097
Dah dah dah deed ah,
dah dee dah dee dah.
559
00:43:53,130 --> 00:43:57,768
You know, I knew it note for
note. And I still remember
the whole solo.
560
00:44:05,843 --> 00:44:09,313
[Viola] 52nd Street in New York
was really wild.
561
00:44:09,346 --> 00:44:14,685
[Billie] It was a legendary
time with legendary
musicians in almost
562
00:44:14,718 --> 00:44:17,187
every, every joint in town.
563
00:44:17,221 --> 00:44:18,989
[Viola] And Art Tatum
was there,
564
00:44:19,023 --> 00:44:22,026
Joe Venutti, Billie Holiday
was in one of the places.
565
00:44:22,059 --> 00:44:28,665
Dizzy Gillespie was working in
one of those little nightclubs
in New York at the time,
566
00:44:28,699 --> 00:44:33,270
and he invited me Uptown to
a jam session at Minton’s,
which was
567
00:44:33,303 --> 00:44:36,373
where everybody went
after work every night.
568
00:44:36,407 --> 00:44:39,009
New York was an exciting town.
569
00:44:39,043 --> 00:44:42,613
There wasn’t anything that
you couldn’t, you couldn't hear.
570
00:44:42,646 --> 00:44:46,517
You could find jazz of any kind
or any place in town.
571
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:49,553
We were working
the Hotel New Yorker,
572
00:44:49,586 --> 00:44:53,690
and Woody came to me
during the intermission
573
00:44:53,724 --> 00:44:57,294
and asked if I would like to
sit up in the trumpet section.
574
00:44:57,327 --> 00:45:00,264
Well, needless to say,
I wasn’t about to
turn that down.
575
00:45:00,297 --> 00:45:06,503
Well, the lead trumpet player
decided, I think, that he was
going to get rid of me but fast.
576
00:45:06,537 --> 00:45:10,307
He set up this ridiculous riff,
577
00:45:10,340 --> 00:45:11,842
you know, using
the derby hat
578
00:45:11,875 --> 00:45:15,946
and the derby hat was going up,
it was going down,
it was going sideways
579
00:45:15,979 --> 00:45:17,948
and everything
he could think of.
580
00:45:17,981 --> 00:45:21,218
Well, surprise, surprise.
I kept up with him.
581
00:45:21,251 --> 00:45:24,655
And from that day on, I sat in
the trumpet section.
582
00:45:24,688 --> 00:45:28,092
I never, ever went
down in front
of the band again.
583
00:45:34,231 --> 00:45:39,870
We all owe a debt to
Woody Herman for opening
the door to women in jazz.
584
00:45:45,943 --> 00:45:50,414
[Carline] Sy Oliver,
who was one of our old,
well known musicians
585
00:45:50,447 --> 00:45:55,619
and composers, his orchestra
was the house band up
at the Rainbow Room.
586
00:45:55,652 --> 00:46:02,326
Now he was looking for someone
to sub for his regular
bass player after the first set.
587
00:46:02,359 --> 00:46:05,395
Sy called me and said,
"Carline, come here a minute,
I want to talk to you."
588
00:46:05,429 --> 00:46:08,665
And I said to myself,
"Uh oh, he’s firing me."
589
00:46:08,699 --> 00:46:12,336
He said to me,
"You know I’m known to
590
00:46:12,369 --> 00:46:19,209
not like women musicians.
But, I have to say that you’ve
changed my mind about that."
591
00:46:19,243 --> 00:46:22,546
[Clora] Charlie Parker
came to the Lighthouse
to see Max Roach.
592
00:46:27,351 --> 00:46:30,087
My club was right next door
where I was working, so
593
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,858
I would always go on
my intermission, I would go
over there to the Lighthouse
and check on the guys.
594
00:46:34,892 --> 00:46:40,497
And this day Charlie was there
and I spoke to him
that afternoon,
and I went back to my job.
595
00:46:40,531 --> 00:46:43,867
Next thing I know,
here he comes in the club
596
00:46:43,901 --> 00:46:48,672
and he looked like
the Pied Piper because
he’s bringing the whole audience
from the Lighthouse behind him.
597
00:46:48,705 --> 00:46:51,375
When he came up on
the stage he was saying,
598
00:46:51,408 --> 00:46:54,311
"Clora, he said, "you know
I love you and I love
the way you play.
599
00:46:54,344 --> 00:46:55,512
What do you want
to play, Clora?"
600
00:46:55,546 --> 00:46:58,148
And they were surprised
that he knew who I was.
601
00:46:58,182 --> 00:47:00,751
I said, "Well,
let’s play some
’Now's the Time’."
602
00:47:03,987 --> 00:47:08,592
So we played that, you know,
and I got through
and I played. Oh yeah,
I could play.
603
00:47:11,562 --> 00:47:15,632
This picture was the first
picture I ever took
with Dizzy Gillespie.
604
00:47:15,666 --> 00:47:20,070
I met him in person.
This was 1957
605
00:47:20,103 --> 00:47:22,706
’cause I had made
my album then.
606
00:47:25,776 --> 00:47:28,845
As a mentor, Dizzy
was the best because
607
00:47:28,879 --> 00:47:30,447
I could ask him anything.
608
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,116
He wants to see me
learn this music
609
00:47:33,150 --> 00:47:34,651
and get out there.
610
00:48:00,611 --> 00:48:03,213
[Billie]
After I’d been with the band,
611
00:48:03,247 --> 00:48:07,751
oh, probably about half a year,
there was an incident involving
612
00:48:07,784 --> 00:48:14,157
a married man on the band
and another woman.
613
00:48:14,191 --> 00:48:19,129
And when all this
finally came to light,
614
00:48:19,162 --> 00:48:22,899
one of the guys in the band
came to me and said,
615
00:48:22,933 --> 00:48:25,402
"How long have you
known about this?"
616
00:48:25,435 --> 00:48:28,305
And I said, "I knew about it
from the very beginning."
617
00:48:29,539 --> 00:48:31,975
And their attitude changed.
618
00:48:32,009 --> 00:48:35,879
I think they finally realized
that they could trust me.
619
00:48:35,912 --> 00:48:41,318
That boys could be boys out on
the road, and I wasn’t going to
go back and blab to their wives
620
00:48:41,351 --> 00:48:42,986
about what they were doing.
621
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:46,023
And from then on it
was pretty easy sailing.
622
00:48:48,592 --> 00:48:52,629
[Marian] I guess you remember
that picture,
a great day in Harlem.
623
00:48:57,234 --> 00:49:00,937
Nat Hentoff invited me.
He came running in
624
00:49:00,971 --> 00:49:05,509
and said there’s this
great photo shoot
tomorrow up in Harlem.
625
00:49:05,542 --> 00:49:08,211
And he gave me
the address and he ran out.
626
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:23,060
And Jimmy, I could kill him,
he laid in bed,
he did not get up.
627
00:49:23,093 --> 00:49:25,162
I couldn’t get him up.
628
00:49:25,929 --> 00:49:27,064
He said,
629
00:49:28,732 --> 00:49:31,301
"It’s too fucking early."
630
00:49:39,743 --> 00:49:44,314
Mary Lou and I somehow
gravitated together.
631
00:49:44,348 --> 00:49:47,517
We hadn’t seen each
other in quite a while
632
00:49:47,551 --> 00:49:51,254
and she was telling me
about a gig or something
she had done.
633
00:49:51,288 --> 00:49:54,791
I used to go and see her
at a place called The Cookery.
634
00:49:54,825 --> 00:50:01,832
And I always knew I would hear
something new and different.
She always wanted to
635
00:50:01,865 --> 00:50:08,138
kind of have an edge that
nobody else had reached yet.
636
00:50:08,171 --> 00:50:11,708
[Clora] Mary Lou Williams,
she went through some things
637
00:50:11,742 --> 00:50:13,610
that woman had to do,
638
00:50:13,643 --> 00:50:16,513
but by being a good writer
and composer
639
00:50:16,546 --> 00:50:19,983
I think she was able
to overcome
640
00:50:20,016 --> 00:50:24,488
a little bit more than
what I was able to overcome.
641
00:50:24,521 --> 00:50:29,559
She would write
for Tommy Dorsey
and for Benny Goodman
and for whomever.
642
00:50:29,593 --> 00:50:33,096
[Geri] All of these
great musicians would
all go to her apartment.
643
00:50:34,297 --> 00:50:37,200
It was like
a laboratory, a salon.
644
00:50:37,234 --> 00:50:40,170
She was a centerpiece
for the music.
645
00:50:40,203 --> 00:50:44,875
What she represents
is a fierce sense of self
646
00:50:44,908 --> 00:50:47,043
and being able
to hold onto that,
647
00:50:47,077 --> 00:50:50,614
but then transcend era
at the same time.
648
00:50:50,647 --> 00:50:53,383
So this is a woman
who worked consistently
649
00:50:53,417 --> 00:50:57,654
in a punishing,
unforgiving environment
650
00:50:57,687 --> 00:51:01,024
of one-nights, of
people wanting you to be on,
651
00:51:01,057 --> 00:51:04,795
people wanting you to be
what they wanted you to be,
652
00:51:04,828 --> 00:51:07,731
that really
took a toll on her.
653
00:51:07,764 --> 00:51:12,135
[Billy ] She gave up the music.
Here was one of
the great musicians in jazz
654
00:51:12,169 --> 00:51:15,605
and nobody was paying any
attention to her.
She was working, of course,
655
00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:18,008
because she was good
and people wanted to hear her.
656
00:51:18,041 --> 00:51:22,846
But that wasn’t enough for her,
and it shouldn’t have
been enough for the public.
657
00:51:22,879 --> 00:51:27,317
[Geri ] She walked out
of this Parisian nightclub
658
00:51:27,350 --> 00:51:31,721
and for three years, no one
knew where Mary Lou was.
659
00:51:36,126 --> 00:51:40,430
[Marian] I can’t imagine why we
were the only women
in that picture, because
660
00:51:40,464 --> 00:51:42,766
there were scads
of them around.
661
00:51:42,799 --> 00:51:45,936
There was Melba Liston -
I don’t know where she was.
662
00:51:54,945 --> 00:52:00,517
[Billy] Melba Liston was
a remarkable musician, because
what she did was so musical
663
00:52:00,550 --> 00:52:02,919
and what she did
was done so well.
664
00:52:02,953 --> 00:52:07,858
You want to talk about great...
She was a great trombone player
665
00:52:07,891 --> 00:52:09,526
and a great arranger.
666
00:52:27,711 --> 00:52:30,447
[Billy] I’ve been a band leader
on many occasions
667
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,650
and it really was
a disappointing thing to me
668
00:52:33,683 --> 00:52:37,053
to have musicians who
I respected not respect
669
00:52:37,087 --> 00:52:40,190
some of the women
that I hired to play.
670
00:52:44,327 --> 00:52:48,865
[James] Dizzy Gillespie told me
that one time his big band
was doing a show
671
00:52:48,899 --> 00:52:52,369
and he sent for Melba Liston
to do the arrangements.
672
00:52:52,402 --> 00:52:56,039
And he wanted her to do
the arrangements because
he knew of her brilliance.
673
00:53:03,813 --> 00:53:08,552
But when he told the cats in
the band that he had sent out
to the West Coast to bring in
674
00:53:08,585 --> 00:53:10,720
Melba Liston to
arrange the music.
675
00:53:10,754 --> 00:53:14,457
They said, "Man, what you gotta
send out all the way to the West
Coast to get some bitch
676
00:53:14,491 --> 00:53:16,927
to arrange our music for,
man? Come on."
677
00:53:22,232 --> 00:53:24,334
He didn’t say another
word to them.
678
00:53:24,367 --> 00:53:28,004
He just waited until
the day that she arrived
679
00:53:28,038 --> 00:53:30,140
and dropped the charts
in front of them,
680
00:53:30,173 --> 00:53:33,109
and their mouths dropped open
when they started
to look at them
681
00:53:33,143 --> 00:53:38,682
because Melba Liston had
the uncanny ability to make
a section player feel
like a soloist.
682
00:53:38,715 --> 00:53:44,487
They then understood why he had
sent out to the west coast to
get that lady, that woman,
683
00:53:44,521 --> 00:53:47,324
into New York
to arrange that music.
684
00:53:47,357 --> 00:53:53,129
[Billy] She had the respect
of many male players,
685
00:53:53,163 --> 00:53:57,367
but she just couldn’t seem
to find whatever it was
686
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,637
necessary to make a career.
687
00:54:00,670 --> 00:54:04,274
So she finally gave up
and went to teach music
in Jamaica.
688
00:54:11,948 --> 00:54:15,185
[narrator] When rock and roll
came along that
changed everything.
689
00:54:15,218 --> 00:54:20,890
It was really the end of
big bands and even
the smaller jazz groups
were struggling.
690
00:54:20,924 --> 00:54:25,428
And of course the women found
themselves swimming
in an even shallower pool.
691
00:54:25,462 --> 00:54:30,533
I was one of the ones that
reduced my big bands to groups.
692
00:54:30,567 --> 00:54:35,271
The women bands were,
you know, falling apart
and couldn’t get gigs.
693
00:54:35,305 --> 00:54:37,907
And I knew I was going
to play my trumpet someway.
694
00:54:37,941 --> 00:54:42,312
Well, I started impersonating
Louis Armstrong.
695
00:54:42,345 --> 00:54:45,715
[impersonating
Louis Armstrong]
696
00:54:45,749 --> 00:54:47,450
you know, I’d do
my Louis impression.
697
00:54:47,484 --> 00:54:51,855
When I went to Canada
I was a hit, they loved me.
698
00:54:51,888 --> 00:54:55,125
I made much more
money by myself than I could
699
00:54:55,158 --> 00:54:58,261
playing in somebody’s band.
So that’s what I did.
700
00:54:59,329 --> 00:55:03,233
[Geri] In 1957 Mary Lou
finally reemerges
701
00:55:03,266 --> 00:55:07,137
and at that point in time,
you know, she was
702
00:55:07,170 --> 00:55:11,174
really adamant about
not wanting to perform again.
703
00:55:11,207 --> 00:55:16,980
Dizzy Gillespie. Probably one
of the only people who have,
could have gotten Mary Lou
704
00:55:17,013 --> 00:55:21,017
to actually come out
of this hiatus at the time.
705
00:55:21,051 --> 00:55:25,855
You know, he convinced her, you
know, that her greatest gift to
the world was, was jazz.
706
00:55:32,962 --> 00:55:36,066
This wasn’t somebody
who just gave up on the music.
707
00:55:36,099 --> 00:55:40,336
She converts to Catholicism.
You look at everything
after that point
708
00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:43,707
and it’s very different
from everything
that was before that.
709
00:55:43,740 --> 00:55:47,143
[Billy] She met
a Catholic priest
who convinced her
710
00:55:47,177 --> 00:55:51,014
that she should not give up,
but rather use that talent.
711
00:55:51,047 --> 00:55:53,950
You know, if He gave you that
then you should
do something with it.
712
00:55:53,983 --> 00:55:58,121
[Mary Lou] I work with these
kids at the community center.
713
00:55:58,154 --> 00:56:02,625
I teach them jazz singing
and they really love it.
714
00:56:02,659 --> 00:56:05,729
[singing "I Have a Dream"]
715
00:56:50,340 --> 00:56:53,643
[Father Peter] I met
Mary Lou Williams
in the pages of Time magazine.
716
00:56:53,676 --> 00:56:58,314
And this article talked about
two things, her reemergence
on the jazz scene
717
00:56:58,348 --> 00:57:00,250
playing at The Hickory House,
718
00:57:00,283 --> 00:57:05,221
and her conversion
to Roman Catholicism, which
sort of made that possible.
719
00:57:13,897 --> 00:57:18,067
I met her when she
released the great album
720
00:57:18,101 --> 00:57:21,838
"Mary Lou Williams Presents
Black Christ of the Andes."
721
00:57:21,871 --> 00:57:25,775
I wrote her a letter, she wrote
me back, I went down
and I met her.
722
00:57:25,809 --> 00:57:31,481
I met her at the Hickory House.
She spoke barely a word,
barely a word.
723
00:57:31,514 --> 00:57:35,819
One was, "Are you a priest?"
I said - I’m dressed like this,
724
00:57:35,852 --> 00:57:37,921
seminaries were dressed -
725
00:57:37,954 --> 00:57:42,292
So she had begun
composing again
before I met her.
726
00:57:42,325 --> 00:57:45,628
She was writing all
during the period I knew her.
727
00:57:46,563 --> 00:57:50,366
I had to encourage
her to face crowds.
728
00:58:18,027 --> 00:58:21,698
[Betty Friedan] Wear a bra or
not to wear a bra. It’s hardly
the most essential question
729
00:58:21,731 --> 00:58:25,468
of, of, of this movement.
That’s not where
the action is, you see.
730
00:58:25,501 --> 00:58:29,672
The action is
to change society,
to restructure society.
That I am free
731
00:58:29,706 --> 00:58:34,677
to wear a bra, or not to
wear a bra is my business.
732
00:58:34,711 --> 00:58:38,514
[Host] Why don’t you shack up
and say look, "You wash
the dishes today
and I’ll wash them tomorrow?"
733
00:58:38,548 --> 00:58:41,651
- Well, that’s what
I’ve been saying.
- [Host ] Well, you shack up.
Go ahead.
734
00:58:41,684 --> 00:58:43,386
But you seem to think
this is repulsive.
735
00:58:43,419 --> 00:58:45,255
I think it’s repulsive,
of course.
736
00:58:45,288 --> 00:58:48,291
You seem to think women should
get married this way and be
under their husband’s tutelage
so -
737
00:58:48,324 --> 00:58:51,661
- Well, I think it’s
very natural,you know -
- Let the women tell you
what’s natural.
738
00:58:51,694 --> 00:58:54,163
They’re trying to
tell you all the time.
739
00:58:54,197 --> 00:58:57,300
Well, you certainly aren’t
speaking for them because
the woman I talk to don’t want
to be liberated in a fashion
740
00:58:57,333 --> 00:58:59,402
that women’s liberation
are talking about.
741
00:58:59,435 --> 00:59:04,774
But there is something
different about tonight.
There is something
special about tonight.
742
00:59:06,109 --> 00:59:09,145
What is different?
What is special?
743
00:59:09,178 --> 00:59:12,882
I, Barbara Jordan,
am a keynote speaker.
744
00:59:14,651 --> 00:59:18,354
[Jane]
It’s interesting because at
that period of time in the 70’s
745
00:59:18,388 --> 00:59:22,125
there was this vibe, you know,
women could do,
we could do anything.
746
00:59:22,158 --> 00:59:26,229
You could have a career, you
could, you could succeed in
whatever you wanted to do,
you know.
747
00:59:26,262 --> 00:59:29,532
It was no holds barred.
Everything was opening up
for women.
748
00:59:31,301 --> 00:59:34,537
[Patrice] I think it was
about the 1970’s
749
00:59:34,570 --> 00:59:37,874
that women started
asserting themselves
in all fields,
750
00:59:37,907 --> 00:59:41,210
and therefore things
opened up in jazz.
751
00:59:41,244 --> 00:59:43,713
[Dianne] We were driving back
from the Wichita Jazz Festival
752
00:59:43,746 --> 00:59:48,484
and we were lamenting the fact
that Kansas City had nothing
comparable, Kansas City being
the cradle of jazz.
753
00:59:48,518 --> 00:59:52,088
We thought that was
kind of sad and
754
00:59:52,121 --> 00:59:54,757
so Carol said,
"I have a radical idea
755
00:59:54,791 --> 00:59:57,527
Why don’t we put on
a women’s jazz festival
in Kansas City?"
756
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:02,432
That came out of the fact that
women very rarely get featured
at jazz festivals anywhere
in the world.
757
01:00:02,465 --> 01:00:04,434
We called Marian McPartland.
758
01:00:04,467 --> 01:00:07,236
She was very excited about it.
She said, "I don’t think
it’s ever been done.
759
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:10,006
Let me know what I can do
to help. I would love to be
a part of it."
760
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:13,409
[Carol] We co-founded
the Women’s Jazz Festival
in 1977,
761
01:00:13,443 --> 01:00:16,946
- A way long time ago.
That’s right
- Way back when.
762
01:00:16,980 --> 01:00:19,916
And it was the first time that
had ever happened.
Leonard Feather was our
763
01:00:19,949 --> 01:00:22,919
Master of Ceremonies,
God rest his soul.
764
01:00:22,952 --> 01:00:26,556
Leonard Feather had done more
for women in jazz.
He produced them,
765
01:00:26,589 --> 01:00:32,428
he traveled with them,
he booked them.
He wrote books about them.
766
01:00:32,462 --> 01:00:36,532
So we came up with this idea
just of the concert. We were
going to do this great concert
767
01:00:36,566 --> 01:00:38,301
that featured women.
768
01:00:38,334 --> 01:00:40,937
And so it would be like
a 4 or 5 hour concert on
a Sunday.
769
01:00:40,970 --> 01:00:43,106
- [Carol] That would be
our gift to the world.
- [Dianne] That was it.
770
01:00:43,139 --> 01:00:45,208
Boy, we were excited about that.
That would be great.
771
01:00:45,241 --> 01:00:48,077
We started hearing from people
all over the world.
"We’re coming in...
772
01:00:48,111 --> 01:00:51,147
[Carol] You’re going to have
more than just the concert,
aren’t you?" And we went, "Oh."
773
01:00:53,383 --> 01:00:58,755
It turned into a 3-day festival
and then it ended up
having a 5-day festival
774
01:00:58,788 --> 01:01:01,824
for the last 3 years.
775
01:01:01,858 --> 01:01:04,994
[Host] I heard this band for
the first time in Hollywood.
776
01:01:05,028 --> 01:01:10,066
I wrote them up for
the Los Angeles Times and said,
"This is the best all-female
orchestra
777
01:01:10,099 --> 01:01:12,668
possibly that I’ve ever heard,"
Maiden Voyage.
778
01:01:12,702 --> 01:01:16,439
In 1980, when Maiden Voyage
779
01:01:16,472 --> 01:01:19,142
was playing
the Kansas City Women’s
Jazz Festival.
780
01:01:19,175 --> 01:01:22,011
So they had a tribute to
the International
Sweethearts of Rhythm
781
01:01:22,045 --> 01:01:27,450
and they invited all of
the still living members
of that band to come.
782
01:01:27,483 --> 01:01:31,187
And they asked us
to play for that tribute,
783
01:01:31,220 --> 01:01:34,557
and it was just
an amazing experience
to meet them
784
01:01:34,590 --> 01:01:36,993
and to play with them.
We had a jam session.
785
01:01:41,731 --> 01:01:44,567
I mean, if you just think about
who was on that first concert.
786
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,936
Marian McPartland
with her trio...
787
01:01:46,969 --> 01:01:49,138
- [Carol] Dynamite, dynamite.
- [Dianne] Mary Lou Williams.
788
01:02:02,285 --> 01:02:06,089
[Leonard] And completing
the group is
a wonderful musician who
789
01:02:06,122 --> 01:02:09,592
gave up the American
music scene
to take up a post
790
01:02:09,625 --> 01:02:13,896
as teacher at
the Jamaica School of Music
in the West Indies.
791
01:02:13,930 --> 01:02:16,165
The one and only
Miss Melba Liston.
792
01:02:20,002 --> 01:02:25,675
[Carol] We can say
that we were the ones that had
gotten Melba Liston
out of retirement.
793
01:02:25,708 --> 01:02:29,512
Her playing on that concert
would melt steel.
794
01:02:29,545 --> 01:02:31,547
[Carol] She was so incredible.
795
01:02:31,581 --> 01:02:33,649
[Dianne] And she played
for several years after that.
796
01:02:33,683 --> 01:02:36,586
She went back to New York
and revived her career.
797
01:02:46,629 --> 01:02:49,565
If I’m not involved with
anything else in my life,
798
01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:53,236
the two things that were so
exciting were bringing
Melba Liston out of retirement
799
01:02:53,269 --> 01:02:56,239
and reuniting
the International Sweethearts
of Rhythm.
800
01:02:59,909 --> 01:03:01,644
It really brought
some attention
801
01:03:01,677 --> 01:03:05,948
to some women
that I don’t think
had ever gotten their
just desserts.
802
01:03:19,996 --> 01:03:24,267
I remember the women who were
really visible to me at that
time. It was like Darla Blay,
803
01:03:25,001 --> 01:03:26,602
Toshiko,
804
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:32,241
Joanne Brackeen,
805
01:03:35,945 --> 01:03:37,346
Laurie Frink.
806
01:03:48,558 --> 01:03:51,594
These were women who
I saw who, were out there,
807
01:03:51,627 --> 01:03:56,132
who were playing, uh,
and were doing
what I wanted to do.
808
01:03:58,534 --> 01:04:02,872
I was a woman in a man’s world,
I was a woman playing
a brass instrument,
809
01:04:02,905 --> 01:04:06,709
I was a woman who’s leading
an ensemble. In other words,
810
01:04:06,742 --> 01:04:09,145
I wasn’t going the track
of being a side person.
811
01:04:11,113 --> 01:04:14,350
On some level of course I knew
it was hard for women,
but you know I,
812
01:04:14,383 --> 01:04:17,987
at the time I think I was
walking around like
with blinders on.
813
01:04:18,020 --> 01:04:21,591
I was all of, I don’t know,
21 or 22 and you know,
814
01:04:21,624 --> 01:04:23,459
I thought I could
conquer the world.
815
01:04:23,492 --> 01:04:27,163
["Forget me Nots" playing]
816
01:04:31,567 --> 01:04:35,905
[Patrice] Well, although a lot
of people may know me
as an R & B singer,
817
01:04:35,938 --> 01:04:38,841
which I totally consider
myself not to be,
818
01:04:38,874 --> 01:04:41,978
that’s not really
where my roots are.
819
01:04:42,011 --> 01:04:44,480
My roots are in jazz.
820
01:04:48,651 --> 01:04:52,154
[Herbie] Well, when I first had
a chance to hear Patrice,
I noticed
821
01:04:52,188 --> 01:04:57,960
the daring and the courage she
had to reach out
beyond the barrier.
822
01:04:57,994 --> 01:05:02,098
It was unusual for
any musician of that age.
823
01:05:02,131 --> 01:05:06,369
And so, the fact that
she was a female
824
01:05:06,402 --> 01:05:10,539
made, was, was even more unusual
because there were so,
so few instrumentalists.
825
01:05:10,573 --> 01:05:13,943
I think I was just
really, really fortunate.
826
01:05:13,976 --> 01:05:20,216
By the time I got serious about
the music and really wanted to
involve myself in playing jazz
827
01:05:20,249 --> 01:05:24,453
I didn’t have to deal with
anything other than
playing the music.
828
01:05:25,454 --> 01:05:28,624
And I think when your
purpose and your goal
829
01:05:28,658 --> 01:05:33,596
is in front of you and you’re
doing something that you feel
strongly about
and something that you love,
830
01:05:33,629 --> 01:05:38,067
all the stuff you might
have to encounter is just
stuff you have to encounter.
831
01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:44,674
But The Women’s Movement
and the fact that by the time
I was out there,
832
01:05:44,707 --> 01:05:48,344
there was this consciousness
about possibilities.
833
01:05:49,078 --> 01:05:53,949
And that, in all facets of life
834
01:05:53,983 --> 01:05:56,052
and all facets of business,
835
01:05:56,085 --> 01:06:02,458
you were beginning to see that
the idea about what a woman
could or couldn’t do,
be broken down.
836
01:06:04,827 --> 01:06:07,763
So it really knocks me out
837
01:06:07,797 --> 01:06:11,634
when the women come
and really come with it.
838
01:06:13,903 --> 01:06:17,506
I met Terry Lynne when she
was about 9 or 10 years old.
839
01:06:21,844 --> 01:06:25,481
I heard her play
and I was like,
"Oh, my goodness"
840
01:06:25,514 --> 01:06:29,285
because such a command
and a maturity.
841
01:06:29,318 --> 01:06:31,487
And I said, "Oh, this is great."
842
01:06:34,223 --> 01:06:39,195
My father plays saxophone
and my grandfather
was a drummer.
843
01:06:39,228 --> 01:06:42,431
People like Cannonball Adderley
and Nat Adderley,
844
01:06:42,465 --> 01:06:45,134
Pappa Joe Jones and Clark Terry
845
01:06:45,167 --> 01:06:48,404
and all kinds of people would
come to our house for dinner.
846
01:06:48,437 --> 01:06:51,507
So it was very much in me
847
01:06:51,540 --> 01:06:54,577
even before I knew that’s
what I was going to do.
848
01:06:57,079 --> 01:07:00,950
I got my union card when
I was 10 and my first
849
01:07:00,983 --> 01:07:05,187
gig out of town was with
Clark Terry when I was 10.
850
01:07:05,221 --> 01:07:08,023
And I had really
nothing but support
851
01:07:08,057 --> 01:07:11,327
from the jazz community,
the men in the jazz community.
852
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,896
So it was a very
different experience for me.
853
01:07:18,901 --> 01:07:20,736
[Herbie] Terry Lynne Carrington
854
01:07:20,770 --> 01:07:23,806
is not a drummer
that you can say,
855
01:07:23,839 --> 01:07:28,911
"Oh, she’s a great drummer for
a girl." No. She’s at
that upper level.
856
01:07:28,944 --> 01:07:32,748
Well, when I came up I was hard
pressed to see any
women playing drums.
857
01:07:32,782 --> 01:07:38,187
[Herbie] It was almost like
a given that you wouldn’t dare
to hire a female drummer.
858
01:07:38,220 --> 01:07:44,393
Because a drummer has to have
that testosterone in the sound.
859
01:07:44,427 --> 01:07:48,998
Because there were a few women
that played drums before, but
I don’t think there were
really any people that
860
01:07:49,031 --> 01:07:54,670
did the diverse things that
I did, as far as playing with
legends like Dizzy Gillespie
and then Stan Getz,
861
01:07:54,703 --> 01:07:57,440
and contemporary legends like
Wayne Shorter
and Herbie Hancock.
862
01:07:57,473 --> 01:08:01,310
Then I had the experience of
playing with Herbie which was
really pretty amazing to me
863
01:08:01,343 --> 01:08:07,016
because when I grew up I felt
like if I ever play with
these guys, you know,
I really made it.
864
01:08:07,049 --> 01:08:09,485
Because she was a pioneer
865
01:08:09,518 --> 01:08:13,489
female drummers now
don’t have to sound
just like men.
866
01:08:13,522 --> 01:08:20,162
They can have a feminine aspect
to the way they play.
867
01:08:20,196 --> 01:08:24,733
You know, I didn’t really have
role models in that regard,
but I felt so embraced
868
01:08:24,767 --> 01:08:26,802
that I didn’t see
it as a problem.
869
01:08:34,076 --> 01:08:36,212
[Sherrie] I moved to
New York in 1985
870
01:08:36,245 --> 01:08:40,049
to pursue a career
to be a jazz star,
to play jazz drums.
871
01:08:40,082 --> 01:08:45,454
All I wanted to do was to just
be one of the guys.
That was my fantasy.
872
01:08:45,488 --> 01:08:50,359
So just, you know, just fit in
and blend in and hopefully
people would just pay attention
to my drumming.
873
01:08:50,392 --> 01:08:52,828
I go to a jam session
in New York City
874
01:08:52,862 --> 01:08:56,899
of which I went to many,
many, many every single night.
875
01:08:58,734 --> 01:09:03,072
And I would sign up on the list
and get such a rough time,
"Take your shirt off,"
876
01:09:03,105 --> 01:09:06,208
"I’ll let you sit in," "Can you
handle this tempo, honey?"
877
01:09:06,242 --> 01:09:11,180
And it would make me seethe
in fury. Like inside
I would feel like a volcano
878
01:09:11,213 --> 01:09:14,216
about to explode.
It was so infuriating
879
01:09:14,250 --> 01:09:16,385
and stupid ’cause I, you know,
880
01:09:16,418 --> 01:09:20,356
I did everything that I could
possibly think to do to be
a good player and, you know,
881
01:09:20,389 --> 01:09:24,159
just because of my gender to
hear these dumb comments was
882
01:09:24,193 --> 01:09:26,729
so aggravating
and sort of, you know,
883
01:09:26,762 --> 01:09:29,064
fueled, fueled me to
go, to go forward.
884
01:09:44,780 --> 01:09:47,950
[Sherrie] I never thought about
all girl projects
or all women projects
885
01:09:47,983 --> 01:09:51,787
and it wasn’t something
that I was ever interested
in because
886
01:09:51,820 --> 01:09:54,356
traditionally and historically
everything that
887
01:09:54,390 --> 01:09:59,295
I knew about at the time that
women were involved in was,
was not as
888
01:09:59,328 --> 01:10:03,566
excellent musically
as the other things
I heard from
our male counterparts.
889
01:10:24,553 --> 01:10:30,326
[Patrice] I am so enthusiastic
about the state of
female jazz musicians.
890
01:10:30,359 --> 01:10:32,761
You can go from
891
01:10:32,795 --> 01:10:37,833
the tradition of Big Band,
and its growth with Diva
892
01:10:37,866 --> 01:10:42,972
to amazing instrumentalists,
amazing players-
Ingrid Jensen,
893
01:10:43,005 --> 01:10:44,807
Terry Lynne Carrington...
894
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,811
to composer
pianists like Geri Allen.
895
01:10:48,844 --> 01:10:51,080
I love Geri Allen.
896
01:10:54,516 --> 01:10:57,019
[Geri] I mean jazz is a real
897
01:10:57,052 --> 01:11:02,491
clear metaphor for what
is best about humanity.
898
01:11:02,524 --> 01:11:04,727
The way we improvise,
899
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:06,829
the way we share,
900
01:11:06,862 --> 01:11:09,865
the way we trust,
901
01:11:09,898 --> 01:11:14,069
and those things that happen
in the best moments of music.
902
01:11:14,103 --> 01:11:18,107
- [jazz music playing]
- [inaudible dialogue]
903
01:11:22,544 --> 01:11:24,913
[Anat] Those moments on stage
904
01:11:24,947 --> 01:11:27,650
where you play music
and you just...
905
01:11:27,683 --> 01:11:29,752
connect with the other musicians
906
01:11:29,785 --> 01:11:32,087
you connect with the audience,
907
01:11:32,121 --> 01:11:34,723
and you’re just being yourself,
you’re just playing
908
01:11:34,757 --> 01:11:39,895
and, and everything, those
moments that everything
just gets calm.
909
01:11:47,269 --> 01:11:51,473
[Herbie] I don’t know of
any men that are doing
what Maria Schneider’s doing.
910
01:11:51,507 --> 01:11:55,077
She really has created
her own sound and she’s
911
01:11:55,110 --> 01:11:59,848
a person that’s carving
out the future of larger group
912
01:11:59,882 --> 01:12:02,584
music in jazz.
913
01:12:07,523 --> 01:12:12,127
I never, ever thought of myself
as being a woman doing
what I’m doing.
914
01:12:12,161 --> 01:12:16,899
When I put out my first record,
Evanescence, I still remember
a journalist came over and said
915
01:12:16,932 --> 01:12:19,735
"What’s it like to be
a woman composer?"
916
01:12:20,502 --> 01:12:22,838
And I just, I said,
917
01:12:23,839 --> 01:12:26,675
"What’s it like to be
a male journalist?"
918
01:12:32,448 --> 01:12:37,486
[Ingrid] In retrospect to all
the things I’ve done to get
to where I am in music,
919
01:12:37,519 --> 01:12:41,590
very little of it has had
anything to do with
being a woman.
920
01:12:41,623 --> 01:12:45,828
The only thing I can honestly
say that has gotten me
from point A to point B
921
01:12:45,861 --> 01:12:49,565
is being in love with music,
all kinds of music
922
01:12:49,598 --> 01:12:53,635
and wanting to play music with
people that want to
play music with me.
923
01:13:04,079 --> 01:13:07,916
[Nedra] I did show up to a gig
and I was up for
elderly gentlemen
924
01:13:07,950 --> 01:13:10,219
and like one guy didn’t
put his dentures in
925
01:13:10,252 --> 01:13:13,422
and so anyway they were telling
me that they wouldn’t pay me.
926
01:13:13,455 --> 01:13:16,492
Actually they said they
were going to cut my pay.
927
01:13:16,525 --> 01:13:19,228
And they said,
this one guy said,
928
01:13:19,261 --> 01:13:22,698
"Well, so and so didn’t tell me
they were sending a girl."
929
01:13:22,731 --> 01:13:26,568
And I thought,
"I still want my money."
930
01:13:26,602 --> 01:13:30,038
"Well, so we’re going
to cut you 5 dollars."
931
01:13:30,072 --> 01:13:32,040
And somebody with
their dentures like that,
932
01:13:32,074 --> 01:13:34,376
"We going to
cut you 5 dollars,"
933
01:13:34,409 --> 01:13:38,046
I thought, okay,
I just wanted to laugh.
934
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:41,650
[Patrice]
One of the things that
I think is the biggest change
is the women themselves.
935
01:13:41,683 --> 01:13:46,889
We don’t walk into
the situation concerned
about somebody else’s
936
01:13:46,922 --> 01:13:51,293
baggage about whether we can
or we can’t. We, our focus is
937
01:13:51,326 --> 01:13:52,828
in being good about what we do,
938
01:13:53,328 --> 01:13:55,564
and more and more,
939
01:13:55,597 --> 01:14:02,104
it’s becoming ah,
just a mindset on
women’s part that,
940
01:14:02,137 --> 01:14:05,307
that’s not a hurdle
that we have to
deal with anymore.
941
01:14:05,340 --> 01:14:07,176
[Anat] I only realized it that
942
01:14:07,209 --> 01:14:10,479
you know, a few years ago
all my idols have been men.
943
01:14:10,512 --> 01:14:13,482
No teacher ever talked to me
about Mary Lou Williams
944
01:14:13,515 --> 01:14:14,817
or Marian McPartland.
945
01:14:14,850 --> 01:14:17,319
I didn’t know who
the Sweethearts of Rhythm were,
946
01:14:17,352 --> 01:14:19,588
I didn’t know who
Vi Redd was, I didn’t know
947
01:14:19,621 --> 01:14:21,356
I didn’t know any of that.
948
01:14:21,390 --> 01:14:23,959
The first pianist that I saw,
949
01:14:24,827 --> 01:14:27,830
jazz pianist,
was Terry Pollard.
950
01:14:27,863 --> 01:14:30,833
And she was playing
with Terry Gibbs at the time.
951
01:14:30,866 --> 01:14:35,571
And I’ll just never forget
the intensity of seeing her
952
01:14:35,604 --> 01:14:39,675
on stage and how
fierce she was.
953
01:14:39,708 --> 01:14:45,013
And it was like, "Wow.
There’s a place for me
in this music." From seeing her.
954
01:14:45,047 --> 01:14:48,417
I’ve seen some stunning
young women coming up.
955
01:14:48,450 --> 01:14:51,486
[skatting]
956
01:14:53,655 --> 01:14:56,425
And I have to admit to you,
one of the things I love
957
01:14:56,458 --> 01:15:00,662
about them is that
there isn’t even the inkling
958
01:15:00,696 --> 01:15:03,165
that there’s anything
they can’t do.
959
01:15:12,875 --> 01:15:15,010
There’s just complete
960
01:15:15,043 --> 01:15:20,282
confidence and comfort with
themselves about who they are
as women and what they’re going
to do in the world.
961
01:15:20,315 --> 01:15:23,352
Yeah, I think we’re
going to see
the music grow immensely
962
01:15:23,385 --> 01:15:25,921
and instead of
trying to approach it,
963
01:15:25,954 --> 01:15:29,491
women coming to a man’s world -
maybe that’s the difference.
964
01:15:29,524 --> 01:15:32,728
We kind of all realize like
this is not a man’s game.
965
01:15:32,761 --> 01:15:34,830
If you really look
at the facts,
966
01:15:35,797 --> 01:15:37,366
it’s our game, you know.
967
01:15:38,467 --> 01:15:41,403
You know, we’re creators,
we are creators.
968
01:15:43,872 --> 01:15:46,141
[Maria] I think it was
a Women in Jazz Festival
969
01:15:46,174 --> 01:15:49,311
and I was really excited
because
Terry Lynn Carrington
was playing drums.
970
01:15:49,344 --> 01:15:53,482
Ingrid Jensen who plays in
my band, Joanne Brackeen
was playing piano
971
01:15:53,515 --> 01:15:57,152
and then the band,
all the horns were all men.
972
01:15:57,185 --> 01:16:01,690
So we were playing the concert
and it was just killing.
I mean, Ingrid was
playing her butt off
973
01:16:01,723 --> 01:16:04,393
and Terry Lynn -
it was amazing and I was
974
01:16:04,426 --> 01:16:08,297
standing to the side
watching Ingrid’s solo
975
01:16:08,330 --> 01:16:12,668
and watching the rhythm section
play. All the guys who were
the horn players
976
01:16:12,701 --> 01:16:14,436
were just looking on.
977
01:16:14,469 --> 01:16:19,708
and they were all just
like leaning forward
and totally grooving
978
01:16:19,741 --> 01:16:22,711
on the, how heavy
the music was.
979
01:16:22,744 --> 01:16:27,582
And it got me kind of choked up
because I was thinking, "Wow.
980
01:16:27,616 --> 01:16:30,085
That’s not something
you see very often.
981
01:16:30,118 --> 01:16:32,587
Quincy Jones told me something
when I was in high school
982
01:16:32,621 --> 01:16:35,691
and he came up to me
and he says, "What do you
want to do?"
983
01:16:35,724 --> 01:16:38,961
And I said, "Oh, sir, I’m gonna
write and I’m gonna play,"
984
01:16:38,994 --> 01:16:42,698
and he just looked
right in my face, "You know,
985
01:16:42,731 --> 01:16:46,969
you’re going to have
to be very, very good.
986
01:16:47,002 --> 01:16:49,104
You want to be good anyway,
987
01:16:50,305 --> 01:16:52,841
but if you’re the girl
in the band you have to be."
988
01:17:00,215 --> 01:17:03,051
I hope we get to
the day soon where
989
01:17:03,085 --> 01:17:08,090
that’s not something
that people think about
and,and categorize us.
990
01:17:08,123 --> 01:17:11,126
A lot of men had
a very specific and very
991
01:17:11,159 --> 01:17:14,229
limited view of what women did,
992
01:17:14,262 --> 01:17:17,466
and their roles in society,
their roles in the family.
993
01:17:17,499 --> 01:17:21,370
And it’s important to give them
a little leeway in saying that
994
01:17:21,403 --> 01:17:26,541
that had never seen or
understood how a woman could do
995
01:17:26,575 --> 01:17:29,411
what some of these women
musicians were trying to do.
996
01:17:29,444 --> 01:17:32,014
They were limited
in their ability to
understand it.
997
01:17:32,047 --> 01:17:35,484
The women that came
before us were so diligent
998
01:17:35,517 --> 01:17:39,788
and so brave to continue
pressing and to continue
to be an example
999
01:17:39,821 --> 01:17:44,259
of what the life as a female
jazz musician could be
and could look like.
1000
01:17:45,260 --> 01:17:48,463
I would say to
the Clora Bryants,
1001
01:17:48,497 --> 01:17:52,734
the Dorothy Donegans,
Mary Lou, Marian McPartland,
1002
01:17:53,201 --> 01:17:54,403
I want to say,
1003
01:17:55,237 --> 01:17:56,605
Thank you.
1004
01:17:56,638 --> 01:18:00,675
Um, I knew about it because
some of them told me about it.
1005
01:18:00,709 --> 01:18:02,511
My mom told me about it.
1006
01:18:02,544 --> 01:18:04,479
And um,
1007
01:18:04,513 --> 01:18:08,350
I, hopefully every note that
I play represents. "Hey,
1008
01:18:08,383 --> 01:18:11,286
I know that you had
to maybe, you know,
1009
01:18:11,319 --> 01:18:14,990
go to, upstairs to someone’s
room to collect your paycheck."
1010
01:18:15,023 --> 01:18:18,360
Um, I’m grateful I've
not had to do that.
1011
01:18:26,401 --> 01:18:29,104
Great guys, good timing.
1012
01:18:29,137 --> 01:18:32,274
[jazz music playing]
92134
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