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1
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,200
Okay, nice and simple.
2
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,600
Let me tell you what happened,
everything I can remember, in order.
3
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,040
Then when I'm done
4
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,880
if there's anything you want to ask
I'll do my best to answer.
5
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,000
How does that sound?
6
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,760
So, Friday a week ago, me and the team,
we go for drinks at the Cabin.
7
00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,560
That's the, uh, the pub near Latimer Road.
8
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,880
The one that stays open late on a Friday
and Saturday, turns into a bit of a club.
9
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,040
So that's, uh, that's me, Andy,
10
00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,920
that's… that's Andrew Flanagan
from Finance,
11
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,240
and then my sales team, that's, uh…
12
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,960
Kelly, Sanjay, and then, you know…
13
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,280
Sarah.
14
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,000
As in Sarah Macklin.
15
00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,560
I get the first round,
my way of marking the end of the week.
16
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,240
We drink those, that's the rule,
17
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,160
and then whoever wants to stay stays,
and whoever wants to go, they can go.
18
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,200
It's the same every Friday.
Nobody is forced to do anything.
19
00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,120
And just after nine, uh,
20
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,120
Sanjay and Kelly go home, separately.
21
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,760
So that leaves me,
Andy and Sarah. Yes?
22
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,680
You know, we're still there,
the three of us, when the club bit starts.
23
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,280
Whenever that starts, um…
24
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:27,800
Midnight, something like that.
25
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,280
And this probably doesn't help me
but it's true.
26
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,320
We're all a bit worse for wear
by this point.
27
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,480
You know, Sarah is, definitely,
28
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,600
and she's new, and I'm thinking
she still wants to show us she's a laugh.
29
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,320
Well, not show us she's a laugh.
30
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,000
Show us she's not "not a laugh"
if that makes sense.
31
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,240
You know, I'm pissed,
because I just am, that's allowed.
32
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,160
Andy's well gone, because it's…
33
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,800
Well, because it's Friday
and because he works in Finance
34
00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,960
and that's nobody's idea of a fun week.
35
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,600
Oh, and, um,
nobody's eaten anything either.
36
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,960
So I start thinking we should leave.
37
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,440
All of us.
38
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,200
But then Sarah says she wants to stay,
39
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,760
and because she says that,
Andy wants to stay,
40
00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,000
when Andy's too drunk to stand up.
41
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,200
But Sarah says she wants to talk to me
about how the new job's going.
42
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,440
One of those, um…
43
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,440
Serious conversations people want to have
when they're drunk. You know?
44
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,440
Opportunities, promotions,
shouting over the music.
45
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,040
You know, "I respect you.
I want to make my way up the company."
46
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,280
You know, ambitious.
47
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,400
I'm like, "You're doing great."
And all that. I mean, she's doing okay.
48
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,600
She's only been there a month.
She made a few sales.
49
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:44,600
Not as much as some,
but you know.
50
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,200
And then I look over at Andy
and I decide it's time Andy went home.
51
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,040
Not because of anything
between me and her,
52
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,120
but because it's time we all went home.
53
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,920
So we get in a cab, uh…
54
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:00,600
We drop him off. He's first.
55
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,080
If you do the route from there,
he is first. You can check that.
56
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,200
And then there's just the two of us.
57
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,480
And she wants to get another drink,
to keep talking.
58
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,000
Her suggestion.
59
00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:15,280
But that's not going to work
60
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,440
because the only place near there that's
still open at that time is the Cabin,
61
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,200
the place we've just come from.
62
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,240
So she says… she asks…
63
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,480
Where do I live?
64
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,280
Can we get a drink back at mine?
65
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:27,600
Her idea.
66
00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,680
"Don't get any funny ideas,"
she tells me.
67
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,040
Loud and clear.
68
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,440
This is platonic. That's the message.
69
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,480
And God knows why that's the message,
given the reasons we're here,
70
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,200
but that was what was said at the time,
and is understood by me, loud and clear.
71
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,560
She says she wants my advice.
"Please," you know, because, uh…
72
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,960
"Because you're where I want to be
in five years' time."
73
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,280
All her.
74
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:56,840
And so we do.
75
00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,880
We drink wine at mine.
76
00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:01,360
Music, uh…
77
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,160
I'm on the sofa, she's on the chair.
78
00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,400
She gets up, goes to the loo,
79
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,720
comes back in again, sits back down,
80
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,360
but now she's on the sofa next to me.
81
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:12,920
Close.
82
00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,120
Right up here, close, in like that.
83
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,240
And I don't mind it.
84
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:19,720
I'll be honest. I don't mind it.
85
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,040
I mean, she's there, she's flirting,
making all the running.
86
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,080
That's up to her. She's…
87
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,320
She's drinking, she's choosing the music.
88
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,480
She says she's going to kiss me
because she likes this song.
89
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,280
She kisses me…
You know, I kiss her back.
90
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:34,840
I'm not saying that I don't.
91
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,080
Then it gets to the point
where she's… so pissed,
92
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,560
and the songs she's picking are so loud,
and not what anyone needs to be hearing,
93
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:45,840
that I, um…
94
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:47,840
I book her an Uber.
95
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,840
You've got that from before.
96
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,680
I get her an Uber. It's on my account.
97
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,600
But when it comes, she won't take it.
98
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,000
Now I can't get her to go.
She sits back down.
99
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,160
"One for the road!"
And she's fit, yes.
100
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,880
And I'm not... What's…
What's the word… uninterested.
101
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,600
We end up in the bedroom
and in the bed… on the bed.
102
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,000
I never said we didn't.
We do it once, one and a half times.
103
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,720
Badly, probably.
104
00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:23,880
But we both wanted to do it
and that's the point.
105
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,680
And in the morning, she's…
she's gone, which is okay.
106
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,480
We don't speak
on the Saturday or the Sunday,
107
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,960
and on the Monday afternoon
when she's back in the office,
108
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,320
neither of us mentions it.
109
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,000
It's not until today,
that's basically a week later,
110
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,600
that your lot turn up
and start with all this shit.
111
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,240
And this shit's going to ruin me.
112
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,640
Do you want to say it or shall I?
113
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,240
No, no. You can go.
114
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:08,320
Okay.
115
00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:10,840
Alex…
116
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,320
We don't believe you.
117
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,400
Alex, there was a moment there,
when you were explaining what happened,
118
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,560
when you wanted something written down.
119
00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,080
It was important, I could tell.
120
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,400
The fact that Sarah was the one
that suggested we go back to mine.
121
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,480
- That is important.
- I get it.
122
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,040
- And so I did want that written down.
- I get that.
123
00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,920
- And did you?
- Sorry?
124
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,400
Write it down?
125
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:25,840
Yeah.
126
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,200
But the point I'm making
is that when you made that gesture,
127
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:31,840
you made it to me.
128
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,840
You didn't ask Tony,
even though we both have notebooks.
129
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:35,760
I don't follow.
130
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,440
Even though it was Tony
who you were looking at at the time.
131
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,080
- No, hang on.
- You still made that gesture at me.
132
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,560
For me to write it down.
133
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,560
No, no. Are you trying to say that's
because you're a woman? Is that it?
134
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,080
Because that's not what that was.
135
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,200
To be clear,
there's no way you're doing that.
136
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,160
- I'm just asking.
- Yeah, and don't worry, I'm answering.
137
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,056
I asked you to write it down,
because I wanted it written down.
138
00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,280
And I had to ask someone. It was a 50-50.
139
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,480
Maybe in your mind,
I don't know, I look more, um…
140
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,040
Secretarial?
141
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,280
This is…
142
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,360
Look, I'm sure
you didn't mean anything by it.
143
00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,600
And it's not like it changes
anything that's happening here.
144
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,720
It's just…
well, it speaks to something.
145
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,720
How we do things,
judge people without thinking…
146
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,760
Sorry, but this has nothing to do
with why we're here.
147
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,960
This has everything to do
with why we're here. This stuff…
148
00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,800
Oh, this is where it starts.
149
00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:40,000
Is that the real Natalie,
or is that just a…
150
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,160
Strategy?
151
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,200
- I'm not sure.
- Mmm.
152
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,600
Tony's not sure either.
153
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,200
Look.
154
00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:51,680
Oh, he's okay. Just limbering up.
155
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,720
Okay, Alex. Listen.
156
00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,480
Rather than attack your story,
157
00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:03,240
turn this into an argument,
us accusing you and so on,
158
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,280
we're better off telling you why
we've deemed it necessary to arrest you.
159
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,720
Go through some of the details
you've either chosen not to mention…
160
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,520
- I haven't "chosen" not to...
- Wait.
161
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,000
Or details you may be unaware of.
162
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,400
So that you get to see things
from our side.
163
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,680
So you get the chance to explain
why we've got this so very wrong.
164
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,120
Okay?
165
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,320
No point going after you
for something that hasn't happened.
166
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,280
- No.
- No.
167
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,080
No point taking Sarah's account
as reliable
168
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:34,880
without interrogating it properly.
169
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:36,200
- No.
- No.
170
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,720
No point not doing the same
with your account.
171
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,880
- No.
- Okay. Good.
172
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,240
Right.
173
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,360
Before we get bogged down
in all the details
174
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,320
surrounding the alleged rape itself,
175
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,520
let me start you with this one.
176
00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,240
Who is Claire Hassan?
177
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,040
Sarah's mate.
178
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:04,840
Sarah's best mate.
179
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,920
Claire Hassan, here she is…
180
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,600
Was the one
who recommended Sarah to your agency
181
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,920
because she was interested
in working in property.
182
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,400
Yeah. Her…
183
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,600
Her brother worked with us once.
Nyle Hassan. Why?
184
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,400
Claire Hassan…
185
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,000
Is also flatmates with Sarah.
186
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,560
Now, she and Sarah
were always messaging each other.
187
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,320
Dozens of times a day,
you know the kind of thing.
188
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,320
Were you aware of that?
189
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,120
Why would I be aware of that?
190
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,240
No, fair point.
But that's great for us, to be honest.
191
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,680
Because by letting us
have access to their phones,
192
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,600
it lets us have access
to a whole wealth of data.
193
00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,280
Clues, essentially.
194
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,240
Clues to where Sarah was,
195
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,200
when Sarah was in those places…
196
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,320
And how Sarah was feeling
at any given time,
197
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,360
including sixth March,
198
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,040
the night she was with you. Now…
199
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,400
If I can get my colleague Vanessa to…
200
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,240
What does that mean,
do we think?
201
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:13,800
How would you describe that?
202
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,640
I dunno. Pissed off? Angry?
203
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,080
It's definitely a dissatisfied face,
isn't it?
204
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,440
This is what Sarah sent Claire Hassan
at 4:00 a.m.,
205
00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:25,840
the night she was with you.
206
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,200
I'm not denying it.
207
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,640
- Denying what?
- That we were together that night.
208
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,560
- I've literally just told you.
- Alex, calm down.
209
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,840
We're just getting started here.
Fly off the handle, by all means.
210
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,840
But there is stuff coming up, I promise.
211
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,320
Three minutes later, even at that time,
Claire writes back…
212
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,400
And then straight after, we get this.
213
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,560
- "He just kissed me."
- "He just kissed me."
214
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,280
That's what it says.
215
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:56,960
So what does it mean?
216
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,840
It means what it says it means.
"He just kissed me."
217
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:00,920
As in?
218
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,320
As in, "We went back to his place…".
219
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,360
As in, my place, which we did,
I've said that more than once…
220
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,680
And she knows her best mate's wondering
what's gone on between me and her,
221
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,800
me and Sarah, gossip-wise.
222
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,800
So Sarah's messaged, "He just kissed me."
223
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,280
As in…
224
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,640
As in,
"All that's happened is, we kissed."
225
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,120
Just a burger and no fries.
Just a soft drink, not a beer.
226
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,240
Just a kiss, nothing more.
227
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,120
- So she wanted to kiss?
- Yes.
228
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,760
- She was okay with that?
- Yes.
229
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:35,520
So why the angry emoji?
230
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:39,120
You know, because…
231
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,400
Because she liked me.
232
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,080
Run that one by me again, sorry.
233
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,720
Ever since joining the company,
234
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,280
she was always, uh, hanging around.
You know?
235
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,280
If we were out together,
she'd be right there,
236
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,680
following, laughing at all my shit jokes.
237
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,520
If there was a sales meeting
and I looked at her,
238
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,200
I'd notice she was already looking at me.
That kind of thing.
239
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,440
She fancied you.
240
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,440
Yeah, in a word, mate, yes.
241
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,720
That's not me making out I'm good-looking.
242
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,440
I'm not bad looking, but there are
better-looking guys out there, okay?
243
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,320
Most women don't fancy me
as far as I know.
244
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,800
Some women do,
and she was one of the ones that did,
245
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,000
and she was doing little things
to let me know…
246
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,680
No. Still talking.
247
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,880
Oof.
248
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,600
When we were out together that night,
249
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,160
at the bar,
250
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,280
she got what she wanted:
Me on my own, then back to my place.
251
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,760
She got a kiss, like I said,
252
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,720
and that's when at that point,
I decided to leave it,
253
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,320
and that's when she sent that message.
254
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,960
She's angry. But only as a bit of a joke.
255
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,440
She's angry because
all we'd done was kiss.
256
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,120
"Just kissed,"
when she was wanting more.
257
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:58,600
But she got more.
258
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,800
In the end. In the end she did.
259
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,680
That's the other thing. Sarah was…
260
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:04,760
What's the word I'm looking for?
261
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,400
Drunk?
262
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:08,800
Persuasive.
263
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,240
Sarah's one of those girls who can, uh…
264
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,040
You know, get her own way.
Hard to say no to.
265
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,760
Why do you think I gave her
the sales job in the first place?
266
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,280
Hilarious,
the way that he's talking.
267
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,680
It's as if he was the one
who was forced into it.
268
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,400
Can you tell, as a woman?
269
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,080
Can you look at a guy
and get a feeling he might be trouble?
270
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,600
No, of course you can't, Kyle.
271
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,120
How do you think we end up
in situations like this?
272
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,800
They don't come wearing a badge.
273
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,840
There's more to it
than that, though.
274
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,360
There's a man who knows
what he wants.
275
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,600
Careful, Guv.
276
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,240
Alright, I haven't said it yet.
277
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,240
There's the guy who knows
what he wants, right?
278
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,360
Assertive.
279
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,880
Assertiveness can be attractive.
Women can be drawn to that.
280
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,640
And then there's the assertive type
who is so sure of what he wants,
281
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,440
and is so used to getting it,
that when it doesn't happen…
282
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,280
- He just takes it.
- Yeah.
283
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,800
So we don't spot the clue,
because the clue is the quality.
284
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,320
And that's how we end up
with situations like this.
285
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,920
How are we doing
with this medical report?
286
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:34,600
- Here you go, Guv.
- Thank you.
287
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,400
Oh…
288
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,960
- This is all they sent us?
- It's everything you asked for.
289
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,000
Diagrams on the blue pages,
gynecologist's statement at the back.
290
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,560
- Needs fattening up.
- As in?
291
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,440
Put it in a bigger file
with a load of paper, or a heavy notebook.
292
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,720
But this is the file they sent.
293
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,560
I'm not with you. Sorry.
294
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,640
Doesn't matter what else is in the folder.
295
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,680
It's all about first impressions.
296
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,200
When you bring in a file
that contains evidence,
297
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,280
you don't want to put it down
like it's a flappy bit of paper.
298
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,080
You want to whack it down
like it's War and bloody Peace.
299
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,200
So when do we take it through?
300
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,800
Tony wants it
as soon as he opens his can of water.
301
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,920
Interview resumes at 18:52.
Same persons present in the room.
302
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,520
Let's go through Sarah's account.
303
00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,320
Sarah Macklin.
304
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,600
Not that you need reminding of course,
but here's one we took earlier.
305
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,840
Now, a lot of what Sarah says
306
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,840
in the statement that she gave to her OIC,
307
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,360
that's her Officer In Care…
308
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,440
It's quite faithful to yours,
to be honest.
309
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,280
Uh…
310
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:20,960
You bought the first round, but only
because you always buy the first round.
311
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,800
Flanagan's house was the first drop-off
on the way back home,
312
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,880
and she willingly came back
to your flat for a drink.
313
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,320
And that it was her idea.
314
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,320
And that it was her idea.
Yes, she agrees.
315
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,960
"I was the one who suggested
we have one more,
316
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,600
go back to his and all that."
317
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,560
And then…
318
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,640
She goes into this whole thing
about blaming herself,
319
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,400
and her Officer In Care is saying how
she shouldn't blame herself for anything.
320
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,720
Blah, blah, blah…
321
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,360
And… Yes.
322
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,640
"He says yes to going back to his.
323
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,120
'There's nothing to worry about, ' he says.
'My girlfriend is away.'"
324
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:03,200
And?
325
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,560
Nothing, only you didn't mention that bit.
326
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,360
About having a girlfriend.
327
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:10,520
No.
328
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:11,840
Why?
329
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:14,920
Because it's not relevant.
330
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,240
Because she's not going to be
my girlfriend anymore.
331
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,240
Because of all this?
332
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,920
She looks nice.
333
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,920
Well, maybe you should
go out with her.
334
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,080
Sorry.
335
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,920
Sarah says she was dancing.
She says that you chose the music.
336
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,000
Not true.
337
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,280
"He put on 'Beautiful'
by Christina Aguilera."
338
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,280
- Not true.
- "Said it was one of his favorites."
339
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,880
- Definitely not true.
- "In a guilty pleasure kind of way.
340
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,120
It made him think about beautiful things
and what everyone was doing to the planet,
341
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,560
and sometimes it even made him cry."
342
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,480
Are you the crying type, Alex?
343
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,440
- You ever been known to shed a tear?
- You need to stop that.
344
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,680
Quite right.
345
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,120
Back to the attack.
346
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,200
"I had a good time. I fancied him."
347
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,040
I snogged him. I liked it to begin with.
348
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,840
I remember thinking
he was a good kisser, to be fair.
349
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,000
A sensitive kisser.
350
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,360
But what pissed me off…"
This will be the angry face.
351
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,400
"…Is that he had this way about him
352
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,360
where he was expecting things
to happen between us straightaway."
353
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:27,280
No.
354
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,920
"He just presumed, in that way
when you bring home chips,
355
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,520
or a Chinese meal, or whatever,
you eat it the second you get home.
356
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,040
Before the song was even over,
357
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,240
he was trying to put his hand
down the front of my trousers."
358
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,080
That song's four minutes long.
359
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,440
- Quick work.
- I did not put my hand there.
360
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,440
She put my hand there.
361
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,200
I can't believe we're even…
362
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,920
Does this stuff get played in court?
363
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,280
What makes you think
this is going to court?
364
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,240
"He started doing that."
365
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,440
Trying to get his fingers in.
366
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,560
I didn't want him to go that far.
367
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,840
I could see a picture of his girlfriend
on the side,
368
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,160
"she was looking at us
from a photo frame."
369
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,080
Yes. That's the photo
she was looking at.
370
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,120
"Staring at us
like we were doing something wrong.
371
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,400
I asked him to stop it,
to book me an Uber."
372
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,440
- "But the Uber never came."
- It's on my phone.
373
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,560
The booking is.
So is the cancellation.
374
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,480
- She asked me to cancel it.
- She says it was you.
375
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,240
And no one will ever know.
376
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,200
That she was annoyed it hadn't come,
the Uber,
377
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,800
so she went to the toilet
and texted her mate Claire.
378
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,080
"He just kissed me,"
angry face, all of that.
379
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,320
"And when I came out
he said it was time to go hit the hay."
380
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,160
As in, go to bed, yeah?
381
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,480
Is that one of your phrases?
382
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,760
Can you verbalize that for the tape?
383
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:49,760
I don't know anymore.
384
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,000
Have you got that?
385
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,520
Have you got that?
386
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,120
Can you read my lips?
387
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,400
I do not know what is happening here.
388
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,160
What you were saying, okay,
that is not what fucking happened.
389
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,800
"Bungalow Reunion."
390
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,840
"Bungalow reunion?"
391
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:17,440
It's the last message
392
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,680
that Claire sent Sarah
before Sarah called it in.
393
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,480
Remember, state clearly
that what you're holding is evidence,
394
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,040
then put it down, yes?
395
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,040
Here you go.
396
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,360
For the tape, Detective
Constable Petit has entered the room.
397
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:58,360
The medical report.
398
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:05,600
Thank you.
399
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,720
One of the worst parts of our job.
400
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,040
Paperwork.
401
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,600
Thank you.
402
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,840
Call the detectives that brought him in.
See if it rings any bells with them.
403
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,440
The specific phrase was
"bungalow reunion."
404
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,120
If this was a place they rented
or somewhere they went on holiday,
405
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,800
we wouldn't know, because we don't
have access to their bank transactions.
406
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,600
Well, I'm happy to look for you,
but sending it all over will take time.
407
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,880
How about you check,
and call me if something comes up?
408
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:24,360
Bye, now.
409
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,520
If you're right,
and you didn't assault her,
410
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,480
why would Sarah say that you did?
411
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,520
She didn't contact us
for several days after the alleged attack.
412
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,800
Why would that be?
413
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,960
It's not his job to work that out.
414
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,440
No, no.
415
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,280
It might help.
416
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,520
See, normally,
417
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,960
if someone's got good reason
to deny something like this…
418
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,480
They're gonna get back to us.
419
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,440
There's been so much going on,
420
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,816
maybe you haven't had a chance
to give it a proper thought.
421
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,560
It's all I've been thinking about.
422
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,280
And yet you have no theory?
423
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,720
Oh, I've got a theory.
I just don't like it.
424
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,560
I don't want to think
I think this way about women.
425
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,280
I don't like the way
it will make her sound.
426
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,080
She's accusing you of rape.
427
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,440
Alright, look…
428
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,800
She was applying
for a more senior role at the office.
429
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,280
She was never gonna get it.
430
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,280
She probably knew that
before she applied.
431
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,720
On Tuesday…
432
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,240
Tuesday, after she'd been at the flat,
433
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,920
my co-manager Jason
told her she hadn't got it.
434
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:41,840
He said she was pissed off.
435
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,040
And then I realized that…
436
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,440
You know, maybe she only, um…
437
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,840
She only slept with you to get the job?
438
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,880
It just became…
439
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,880
Obvious to me at that point.
440
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,160
And completely honestly, if you want
to know what I really think…
441
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,720
If she got that promotion and there'd been
another one going the next week after,
442
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,640
she'd have done
the same thing again.
443
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,520
That's actually not very helpful.
444
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,680
I hate the fact that I think that, but…
445
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:17,960
But that's what I think.
446
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:19,840
Hmm.
447
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,120
Okay, the medical report.
448
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,960
Before you start with all that, Detective,
449
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,440
would it be okay
to have a word with my client?
450
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,840
Of course. No problem.
451
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,600
Do you want us to find you a room?
452
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,320
No, this one's fine.
It'll only take five minutes.
453
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,440
You do know this room is monitored?
454
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,120
We'll be able to see and hear you.
455
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,080
That's okay.
We have nothing to hide.
456
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,160
Okay.
457
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,880
Interview suspended at 19:05.
458
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,520
Okay.
459
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,880
Forget what actually happened.
Don't worry about that.
460
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,240
Just tell me this.
461
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,760
If that report shows Sarah suffered
significant internal bruising…
462
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,480
- I don't think...
- Just let me ask you the question.
463
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,960
If that's what it says,
464
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,800
I'm not saying it will, but if that's
what's in there, for whatever reason…
465
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,880
What do you think
that means for you, legally?
466
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,840
That… well…
467
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,680
If that's what it says…
468
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,000
That looks bad, I guess,
but that's not what it's...
469
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,000
Stop there.
470
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,040
Now, if on the other hand
it shows no signs of internal bruising…
471
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,360
- Which it will.
- Okay, now, but hypothetically…
472
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,040
What does that mean, legally?
473
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,560
Well, that's got to be good, hasn't it?
That means, you know, um…
474
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,840
- Normal sex, which is what we had.
- Good.
475
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,440
And anything in between those two points
476
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,640
is on a sliding scale, if you like.
477
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,960
Degrees of interpretation.
478
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,760
Okay, so this is what
you need to understand clearly
479
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,240
before we let these people
back into this room.
480
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,800
All of those answers are wrong.
481
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,080
Because…
482
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,280
Internal bruising alone
can never prove rape.
483
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,920
There's always a way to maintain,
however severe,
484
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,360
that the bruising is the result
of consensual intercourse, yes?
485
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,720
Which breaks my heart,
to be honest, love, but that's the rule.
486
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,720
And it has to be the rule
to prevent the rare exceptions…
487
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:47,840
You okay?
488
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,520
And for similar reasons,
a lack of bruising
489
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,320
cannot show an absence of rape.
490
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,520
Does that make sense?
491
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,600
As in, rapes are not always a fight
or a physical overpowering.
492
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,320
They can be coercive.
493
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,360
But wait, that's bad.
494
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,400
- I'm her boss. They might think I...
- Alex.
495
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,760
- But I didn't.
- Alex.
496
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,280
All you need to understand…
497
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,800
Whatever's in that file…
498
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,560
It cannot show anything either way.
499
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,160
That's why they make
a song-and-dance about bringing it in,
500
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,080
making a point about putting the page back
in the file before they leave the room.
501
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,800
They want you to feel
there's more in there than there is.
502
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,920
They want you to think it's relevant,
503
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,400
but thankfully for you, love, it's not.
504
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,360
And they know it.
505
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,760
Is there internal bruising?
506
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,800
That's why, when they come back in,
507
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,600
and this one here starts all the business
with the glasses and the file…
508
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,400
We do not rise to it.
509
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,160
Okay?
510
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,680
Ready now. Thank you.
511
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,240
Alright. We go back to her statement.
Her account.
512
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,880
Go through her version, every detail.
513
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,760
We've still got
the semen on the jacket.
514
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,800
You're allowed to have sex
with someone who's wearing a jacket.
515
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,600
But it suggests
she was trying to leave.
516
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,680
- So?
- So that backs up her story.
517
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,240
But it's the same old defense, isn't it?
518
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,320
Passion.
519
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,480
If there's bruising, it's passion.
520
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,120
If she's still in her coat and shoes,
it's passion.
521
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,320
Everything is in his favor.
522
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,120
You say it like you think he did it.
523
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,640
And I'm not saying that he didn't,
524
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,280
or that we don't put him
through the wringer, but…
525
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,520
Let's be honest, we've got nothing
that contradicts his account.
526
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,840
Okay, so he's a bit of a prat.
527
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,680
Doesn't make him guilty.
528
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,200
And the fact that
the system's tipped in his favor,
529
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,640
it's not his fault, is it?
530
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:20,520
Hello?
531
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,240
Interview resumes at 19:10.
532
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,480
Right, let's get to it. This attack…
533
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,920
There was no attack.
534
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,480
Well, then, the moment
you slept together, then, badly.
535
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,600
The intercourse. What happened?
536
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,800
- In what way, sorry?
- Well, I don't know. You tell me.
537
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,880
Were you on top, pinning her down?
538
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,200
You were in the bedroom, you said.
Were you there the whole time?
539
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,400
Were you on the bed throughout?
540
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,200
Paint us a picture.
541
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,200
Well, we… or she, I should say…
542
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,600
Decided to go to take things
to the bedroom.
543
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,480
We had been kissing
and we were drunk, as I said.
544
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,000
And then she asked if I loved Anja.
545
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,440
My girlfriend.
546
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,800
Do you?
547
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:18,800
Yes.
548
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,120
Is that what you told her?
549
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,320
No.
550
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,920
I thought if we were about to have sex
she'd prefer to hear that I didn't.
551
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,560
And they say chivalry is dead.
552
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,120
So what you mean is,
you manipulated her?
553
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,760
I lied about loving my girlfriend
554
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,880
to improve the chances
of us having consensual sex,
555
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,640
which is what we did.
556
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,920
So you manipulated her.
557
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:50,920
Did you tie her up?
558
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,040
No.
559
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,960
Really? Not even…
560
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,280
What about around the wrists?
561
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Nope.
562
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,080
Did you hold her
563
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,640
around the wrists?
564
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,320
No.
565
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,360
You don't sound certain.
566
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,080
I'm sure I…
567
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,160
- Wait, by "hold her"...
- Just answer the question, Alex.
568
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:34,840
Look…
569
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,440
See…
570
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,040
What your solicitor here told you
571
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:46,800
is right.
572
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,560
The stuff that's in here isn't relevant,
573
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,400
legally, for all the reasons
that she said, but…
574
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,920
A very simple fact remains.
575
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,240
Whatever's in here
576
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,320
still needs to match what you're saying,
577
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,400
and if it doesn't…
578
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,880
Well, then we've got a problem.
579
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:10,640
I say "we"…
580
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,200
Yeah, alright. Look, please…
581
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,440
I do not have any recollection
of holding her, or tying her wrists.
582
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,000
That's not really my…
583
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,400
That's not the way I tend to do things
when I do things, okay?
584
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,160
But maybe I might have…
585
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,320
Held her like that briefly.
586
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,120
If I did… I don't think I did, but…
587
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:41,880
I'm just trying to…
588
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:43,720
I'm not sure.
589
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,800
- Why?
- Why?
590
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,760
- Aren't you sure?
- Because I was dr…
591
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:49,840
Drunk?
592
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,280
That's it. You told us that
from the very beginning.
593
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,280
"I was pissed, because I was.
That's allowed."
594
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,880
So you were drunk from about 11:00 p.m.?
595
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,760
- Around then.
- "Around then"?
596
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,200
All right, we'll be generous,
but by that score,
597
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520
anything you say about anything
that happened after 11:00 p.m.
598
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:09,880
is also not to be trusted.
599
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,640
- Not with something like this. No.
- Whoa.
600
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,320
I may have touched her wrist.
601
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,880
I don't remember everything,
every word that was said,
602
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,320
every thing that happened,
down to the tiniest detail.
603
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,360
But what I do know, and I'm sick to death
of you speaking to me like this…
604
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,000
Is that I did not rape anyone.
605
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,880
I know that and you know that too,
and you should stop...
606
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:34,800
Alex.
607
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,880
I don't care.
608
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:40,480
I'm not answering any more
of his chip-on-the-shoulder questions.
609
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,280
Finished?
610
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,040
No comment.
611
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,400
Guv…
612
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:00,800
For the tape,
Detective Hobbs is leaving the room.
613
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,280
- Ma'am.
- Yes?
614
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,240
The picture of Claire Hassan
was lifted from her Linkedln page.
615
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,560
It said she'd worked
in her last full-time job
616
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,400
for less than a month, last year.
617
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:16,480
Mm-hmm.
618
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,800
Turns out she had put herself
up for a promotion, hadn't got it,
619
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,880
then made an allegation of
sexual misconduct against her boss.
620
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,880
They ended up paying her to leave.
621
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,600
We had their bank accounts checked.
622
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,280
She spent the money
on a trip to South Africa.
623
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,240
And she took Sarah.
624
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,000
They shared something
called a Safari Bungalow.
625
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,960
Before she reported the attack
Sarah texted Claire,
626
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,800
saying she hadn't got the promotion.
627
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:46,360
Yes. I remember.
628
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,000
Claire messaged back…
629
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,080
"Bungalow reunion, question mark."
630
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,640
As if now was another opportunity
to, you know…
631
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,560
Cash in.
632
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,880
I just don't want that to be true.
633
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,360
I don't want any woman to be like that.
634
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,400
But we also don't want people going down
for things they haven't done.
635
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,200
Even if they are estate agents.
636
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,600
For the tape, Detective Hobbs
has re-entered the room.
637
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,040
Alex, is there anything else
you'd like to say
638
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,760
in relation to the night you spent
with Sarah Macklin?
639
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,680
Any details you think
we might have missed?
640
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,440
Anything you have not said that might
prevent us from pressing charges?
641
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:03,160
Then with the time at 19:17,
642
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:05,200
I am terminating this interview.
643
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,920
You will be taken back to custody
to collect your things and be discharged.
644
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,920
Detective Myerscough will fill you in
on the remaining details,
645
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,120
but otherwise…
646
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,440
You're free to go.
647
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,640
That's it, then? They believe me?
648
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,880
Well, they did not have
sufficient evidence
649
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,520
to corroborate the allegation made,
650
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,240
so the result is the same.
651
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,080
So what does that mean, now?
652
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,040
- Sorry?
- For me.
653
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,640
It means you get to go home.
654
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,280
But what do they give me?
655
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,400
What do you give me?
656
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,520
You put me through all that,
that living nightmare.
657
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,840
Now what?
You suddenly decide I'm telling the truth?
658
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,080
No, we didn't decide that.
659
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,200
We decided that we cannot show
that you're lying.
660
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,680
Those are different things.
661
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,520
But is there…
Where are you going?
662
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,320
I'm trying to ask you a question.
663
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,360
You're just walking out mid-sentence.
664
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,600
Is there some sort
of official form I receive?
665
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,000
I'd like a letter or a statement
666
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,520
or something on the record,
667
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,480
saying that I did not do this.
668
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,440
We don't know that you didn't.
669
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,080
It was her word against mine.
670
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,160
Exactly.
671
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,840
- So, hang on…
- I'm gonna go.
672
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,400
I'm expected to just get up, walk out…
No, no, look, please!
673
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,080
Please, would you just do me a favor…
674
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,080
And sit down.
675
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,760
And give me five minutes of your time,
when I gave you five hours.
676
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,520
Should we get some uniform in here
in case this becomes a problem?
677
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:03,840
- Yeah.
- I'll go.
678
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,720
So just to be clear…
679
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,520
I'm now expected just to get up,
walk out of here,
680
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,840
go back to my life,
back to my office, the, uh…
681
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,320
The place your colleagues arrested me,
682
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,960
the place I was escorted out of,
683
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,960
in front of my mates,
colleagues, my clients…
684
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,640
I just go and rock back up there
in the morning, do I?
685
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,800
Well, if that's what you want to do.
686
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,440
It's what I need to do.
That's how I earn a living.
687
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,560
Okay, then.
688
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,000
"Okay, then," what?
689
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,520
If that's what you need to do,
that's what you'll need to do.
690
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,280
My interest in all this ended
about three minutes ago.
691
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,920
Tell me the answer to this one thing.
692
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,160
My, uh…
693
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:33,200
My mum and my stepdad
have this flat, in Liverpool.
694
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,080
They rent out to students.
695
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,240
Last year the police called
saying they needed to search it.
696
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,760
Something to do with…
697
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,200
Drugs and one of their tenants,
or something.
698
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,040
They turned the place upside down.
699
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,600
Trashed it, basically.
700
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,440
But when they'd finished…
701
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,320
After they were done…
702
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,320
And she went back there to see it,
703
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,480
she walked back in
to find they'd put everything back.
704
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,280
It was perfect.
705
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,800
Any of the stuff they'd broken,
it had all been replaced.
706
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,240
Some of it was better than before.
So my question to you is…
707
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:16,720
Why?
708
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,720
Why did they put the furniture back?
709
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,200
Because she'd been inconvenienced.
710
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,720
I've been inconvenienced.
711
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,040
- She had committed no crime.
- Neither have I.
712
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,600
She was completely innocent.
713
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:30,720
So am I.
714
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,800
No.
715
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,480
You were arrested for something,
716
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,520
and we decided not to press charges.
717
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,840
And if that situation changes,
718
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,040
then we will be in touch.
719
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,400
- Sorry.
- But that's not good enough.
720
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:47,800
You have to help me out,
721
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,920
because whatever the truth is here,
this shit sticks.
722
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:52,760
That's the point.
723
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,000
I was tarnished the second your mates
came into my office in their uniforms,
724
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,520
and nowadays,
not being charged with rape,
725
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,640
that's not enough, okay?
726
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,320
People will say I got away with it,
727
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,280
that I wriggled out of it,
when I did not do it.
728
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,320
So you come back to my office, please.
729
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,560
You speak to my friends,
the women in my family…
730
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:21,600
You come back and you fix it.
731
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,000
You put the furniture back
just how it was.
732
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,800
Step back from the door.
733
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,560
I think some other people
might need the room.
734
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,000
But I want to keep talking.
735
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,560
Continue this conversation.
736
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,440
Alex, the conversation is over.
737
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,600
He's one of the ones
that came to get me from before.
738
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,720
How many times do I have to prove
I'm not a problem to you people?
739
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,600
You stay away from me. Get off me!
740
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,000
Get off me! Take your hands off me!
741
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,720
Take your hands off me!
742
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,360
You're not allowed to do this.
743
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:18,240
Good work today.
744
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,280
Deciding to let him go.
That's a result. Yes?
745
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,440
Yeah.
746
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:29,440
Yeah.
57649
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