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[music]
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My name is Steven Fletcher and I�m a documentary
film maker but most of my working life I�ve
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been a computer programmer
For me the love affair of the computer started
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at the age of 14 when I got my first computer
the VIC-20 closely followed by the Commodore
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64 and then of course the Amiga
Now 35 years later I want to take you on a
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journey back to the birth of the home computer
by following the Commodore story discovering
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the origins and what lead up to the Commodore
64 being the best ever selling computer in history
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It�s remarkable that in my lifetime technology
has advanced so much from computers once the
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size of a room to mobile phones that fit in
your pocket
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You don�t have to go back too many years
and computers just didn�t exist but now
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we find computers filling every aspect of
our lives
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We will be travelling around Europe and across
America interviewing many legends from Commodore
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and Amiga
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A half a million dollars
March 7th 1984
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You invented something that changed my life
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And there�s a bunch of Z8000 programmers
you know looking like I just shot a sheep or something
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On the other side rather than panicking because
your ball grid array or something was inverted
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and there�s nothing you can do about it
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A meeting with Jack Tramiel was often called
a Jack attack
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Do you ever get a jump where it�s ten times
better these days � no
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Welcome to R J Mical�s house of construction
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[music]
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We will also be attending Commodore and Amiga
events plus retro shows to see how alive the
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Commodore and Amiga scene is in today�s
modern world
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[plane noise]
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Just arriving in San Francisco
We�re going to be doing the Commodore Story documentary
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and the first thing we see is from a museum and it�s all about the typewriter
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and potentially the first chapter;
the first part of the documentary we are going
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to call �The Typewriter Man� because it�s
all about Jack Tramiel and where he came from
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And here we are
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(music)
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My name�s Leonard Tramiel and I was involved in the personal computer industry for quite sometime
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I was on the team that developed the Commodore PET
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and then actually went off to graduate
school and didn�t have any direct involvement
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in the VIC-20 or Commodore 64
Had some indirect work with some of the engineers
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and marketing folk and of course with my dad
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The way Commodore got into the computer business
was completely by accident
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So let�s let�s take a couple of historical
steps back
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My father when he left the US army had a some had some experience repairing typewriters; he was trained
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to do that in the army and one of his first
jobs after leaving was he got the contract
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to continue doing the typewriter repair for
the army base
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And his business went from repairing typewriters
to importing and selling typewriters and then
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from typewriters into other office equipment
like adding machines and then from adding
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machines to electronic calculators
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This is where Commodore started; Jack Tramiel made these things and made his money with it
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Interesting story about this piece of equipment,
everybody knows that jack Tramiel didn�t
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have really a lot of interest in the computer
business; he wanted to sell calculators like
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this one
And a lot of people will recognise this specific
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chiclet keyboard
And it was Chuck Peddle who engineered the
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first computer for Commodore but because real
keyboards were really expensive at the time
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Jack Tramiel designed it as this keyboard
should be used
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Virtually every calculator was designed around
a calculator chip produced by Texas Instruments
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and our friends at TI decided that they wanted
to get into the calculator business so they
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produced calculators and sold them for roughly
the cost that they were selling the calculator
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chip for, which drove everybody out of business
My father said; so he told this story a couple
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of times; he said that in his in his mind
his reaction was �well they can die but
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I�m not going to die that easily�
Being a holocaust survivor survival was an
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important thing for him
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So he found a calculator chip company or a
company that made calculator chips and it
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turned out they were not doing all that well
financially and bought them
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And one of the projects that this company
was involved in was a little thing that he
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knew nothing about called the microprocessor
the MOS technology 6502, which was probably
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the most used microprocessor of all time
All the Commodore machines in that series,
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the PET, the VIC-20 and Commodore 64, all
of those, all of the Apple 8-bit machines,
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all of the Atari 8-bit machines, including
the Atari video entertainment system and the
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Nintendo machine all use that same chip, which
is really quite amazing
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How do you make it work?
You�ve got to have some programming going
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along with it; needs to have some memory;
needs to have some I/O so Chuck designed the
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KIM which Keyboard Interface Module if I remember
correctly
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And it had a 16-button keyboard that allowed
you to enter commands, program the thing in
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in Assembly language, or actually in binary
in hexadecimal code
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Lots of fun because that�s the way all programming
should be done
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And that was the first personal computer I
ever used, I had a KIM in my bedroom
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MOS Technology was in in Norristown and I�d
actually visited MOS Technology when I was
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in high school and met Chuck Peddle and bought
a KIM 1 directly from the factory so Commodore,
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since they owned MOS technology, I figured
that was a you know be a perfect fit for me
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So when Neil gave me a call I applied and
got a job with the VIC-20 team, headed by
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Michael Tomczyk
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Chuck had designed the chip as a first step
in a process where he wanted to make; and
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this is going to sound pretty funny, he wanted
to make household robots a thing
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So the first thing he needed was a really
inexpensive microprocessor and he met with
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my dad and said �I�m going to make this
computer, if you want Commodore to make this
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computer I�ll work for you and Commodore
will make this computer�
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Dad said, �Ok, let me think about it�
and he came home and spoke to me and said,
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�I have no idea what he�s talking about�
�Come meet this guy, talk to him about it
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and tell me what you think�
So this you know punk kid at twenty goes to
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meet the designer of what is probably one
of most influential pieces of technology ever;
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Chuck Peddle the designer of the 6502
And Chuck and I sit down in a booth at an
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embedded computer system fair and they had
as an example of a marvellous thing that you
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can build with this; a pinball machine
And Chuck and I sit down to talk about computers
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and we spent most of the time talking about
science fiction
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A science fiction story by Robert Heinlein
called �The Door Into Summer�; which is
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all about a world full of personal computers
and Chuck wanted to live in that world
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So if no one else was going to make that world
he was going to build it and the first step
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was the PET
So after the meeting talked to dad and I said,
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�this guy knows what he�s talking about�
and Commodore went into the computer business
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I joined Commodore in 1981 in the United Kingdom
despite this American accent
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My first computer was the Commodore VIC-20
I was six years old when I got that
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I managed to augment my meagre savings and
we went out and bought a second hand Commodore
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64 for my birthday
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I got my first computer, home computer, which
was the Commodore 64
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My first computer started with the Commodore
64
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I remember Christmas morning 1988; I think
it was
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I unwrapped a Commodore Plus/4
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For me my brand spanking new Commodore 64
computer, eager to go downstairs and play
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on it in the lounge, unfortunately being Christmas
Day there was a James Bond film on in the
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afternoon and because we were a one TV family
I had to wait until that had that had finished
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We are here in Atlanta, Georgia and my first
computer was the Commodore 64
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I�ve wrote a lot of music on the C64 back
in the 80�s
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I had a real synthesizer sound chip, the SID
chip
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I was like beside myself
I had to have one
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I�m from that little window of people that
worked for Jack Tramiel and then worked there
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after Jack Tramiel left so I call this a Commodore
Greek tragedy in three acts and I�m from
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act two, right in the middle of it
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Jack�s past was known in the company but
not in great detail at least not generally
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People knew he�d been through a tough time
in Germany
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Got his start in Toronto and so on but it
wasn�t a topic of general conversation
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His experiences in the Second World War were
rather horrific
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So he he often told the story of, I guess
it was September 1st 1939 when the Germans
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invaded Poland
He remembers seeing these squadrons of airplanes
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flying over, he thought that was really cool
and he you know went outside and saluted it
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He didn�t think all that highly of them
after they after they came into town
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Lodz was very close to the border in fact
so close that they wound up annexing that
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part of Poland into Germany
All the Jews were rounded up and sent to live
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in one particular section of the city called
the Ghetto conveniently not too far from the
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Jewish cemetery and they were basically slave
labour
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I don�t actually remember what dad did during
the ghetto years but it would have been you
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know odd jobs and manual labour of some sort
because he was pretty young
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And then the the Lodz ghetto was one of the
last if not the last ghetto in Poland to be
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liquidated and sent have all its; we�ll
call them inhabitants sent to Birkenau, a
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huge camp part of the Auschwitz complex where
people were sorted out into those who could
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work and those that couldn�t and those that
couldn�t were rapidly dispatched
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He wound up going with his dad to a work camp
named Ahlem just outside of Hannover
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And it�s funny he he said that he remembers
trying to never talk about this as we were
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growing up so as far as he was concerned he
never mentioned it
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As far as us kids were concerned they talked
about it all the damn time because; and there�s
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nothing inconsistent about that because there�s
there�s not a lot of story of that level
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that a kid can tolerate and compared to what
was bubbling in his mind I�m sure he said
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nothing
Very emotional, really hard to get through
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but at the end of the war he was deathly ill,
too weak to move
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So as the Americans were advancing into Germany,
the Germans said �OK they�re coming in,
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they�re going to kill everyone so if you
want to live come with us�
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And everyone that could move got up and left,
went with the Germans
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and when they were out of town they were all shot
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And the so dad told the story that he remembers;
and it�s almost certainly not true but he
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remembers this black American soldier, who
he thought was about seven and a half feet tall
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came in and you know just you know busted
busted down the door, looked around to see
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what was going on and quickly got everything
going
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People in the in that squadron said there
were no blacks
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Memory is a funny thing
And very quickly you know medical attention
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was given, the people were taken care of
They wound up, there were a large number of
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what were called DPs, or displaced persons
camps where people were rejuvenated and and
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allowed to heal and come back to some semblance
of their humanity
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And my father decided; my parents were married
by this point decided he wanted to come to
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the US
So the guy asked him �how old are you?�
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to which my father responded �how old do
I need to be?� and he said �eighteen�
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he said, �good I�m eighteen� He was
seventeen
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So you may find an interesting one-year discrepancy
in the year of my father�s birth whether
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it�s 1927 or 1928
On all those papers his birth date was 1927
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because that made him eighteen at the time,
in fact he was born in 1928
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So he arranged to come to the US, joined the
US army
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My mother came to the US
Worked in the army mostly because he wanted
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to learn about the country, learn about the
people and wanted to learn English
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You mentioned Ahlem?
A soldier from Sioux Falls, Iowa; if I remember
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correctly, by the name of Vernon Tott took
pictures of the camp that day
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A survivor, who lived across the bay in Oakland,
when he retired said �you know I�m going
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to find these guys� and from memory drew
the patch that he remembered on their shoulder
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and sent it off to the Pentagon and said what
group is this?
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He found out, sent a letter to the that squadron
and said does anyone have any memories, any
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recollection about this?
And Vernon read the the newsletter from his
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squadron and said, �You know I think I still
have those pictures�
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So there�s a documentary called the �Angel
of Ahlem� about that which is pretty amazing
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Yeah we we met Vernon in Germany
I did, my parents had met of course before
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but there was a ceremony for; I think it was
the, lets see, would have been the 60th anniversary
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of the clearing of the Warsaw, of the Lodz
Ghetto and Vernon was in the process of dying
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of cancer but he came to Germany and participated
with us in this
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Really quite moving
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[Interviewer]
�Lets focus on �business is war��
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�Right� don�t you want to speak about
sex?�
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�Maybe later�
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�OK�
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My father, for him, business was his life
On the other hand it was very important for
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him that family be supported and be involved
in, he was he was quite keen on the idea of
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his sons working for him
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And I went to see him and I walked into his
office and Jack was this short, rotund, bald,
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swarthy, sort of had large, protruding eyes
and a deep booming voice that actually make
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the walls vibrate it was so baritone and he
was very intimidating
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I don�t know of many other people that could
run things quite the way he did
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The most surprising thing when you look at
the way companies are structured between the
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lowest level person and the top there�s
two or three levels and that�s it and no
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one�s that far away and and this wound up
with an enormous number of people that reported
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directly to my father
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He hired me and he said �but your job will
not be to assist me, your job will be to follow
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me around and learn the religion�
Jack�s philosophy of business, he called
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it the religion
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There are lots of ways to run a business and
if you are going to run a business where the
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CEO is this warm, gentle, encouraging, mentoring
person who leads people through a path of
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internal and emotional development while they
generate a wonderful life-changing product
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� great
And I�m sure there are companies that do
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very well under that model, that wouldn�t
work with my dad as CEO
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In my personal job was not to tell them how
good they are but to tell them what they are
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doing wrong so they can improve
We live today in a different world
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It�s such a good job � my God
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I went to the CES show, Jack Tramiel was on
the stand, he was barking orders to everybody,
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was quite aggressive
I had about thirty seconds with him, I just
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said �hello I�m Dave from the UK� he
shook my hand and then dismissed me with his eyes
207
00:23:56,820 --> 00:24:03,980
My father was put in touch with a financier
in Toronto by the name of Irving Gould who
208
00:24:03,980 --> 00:24:08,750
I think at that time got twenty percent of
the company
209
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,790
Very bluntly asked him one day
I said �Irving I know you�re a wealthy
210
00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:19,630
man, obviously you invested heavily into Commodore
and other companies
211
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,980
Would you mind telling me how you made your
money?�
212
00:24:21,020 --> 00:24:25,380
And I thought he was just going to throw me
out but he didn�t, he said �yes I�ll tell you�
213
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,260
And I�ll tell you exactly the words he used
214
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:32,040
He said, �David I took the best piss of
my life�
215
00:24:32,050 --> 00:24:37,560
�And I�m just just stood at the urinal
and a young man came in and the young man
216
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:43,720
is going �so well these guys have invented
a system of twenty foot and forty foot containers
217
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,480
that can get picked up and carried on lorries
and they can get put onto special container
218
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,870
ships, cargo ships�
And he said �and I just brought to my company
219
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,490
to the table the opportunity to have the rights
for North America for the containers and they�ve
220
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,650
just turned it down� and Irving just said
�you�ve just found your man�
221
00:25:03,660 --> 00:25:09,130
Commodore programmers put together a game
called �Jack attack� and they named it
222
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:10,120
after Jack
223
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:15,080
You know at Commodore we have something that�s
sort of urban legend and yet has it�s basis
224
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,220
in truth and it�s called a �Jack attack�
And �Jack attacks� can actually occur
225
00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:23,720
one on one, right
Where you you might say, �I just can�t
226
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,420
work this way �you know
You�d be the president of Commodore and
227
00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:30,680
say �I can�t work this way� and Jack
would say, �Well then don�t�
228
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,450
That meant you�re fired you�re just out
We lost an entire office one time because
229
00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:36,450
they wanted royalties
230
00:25:37,450 --> 00:25:42,080
I went to lunch, came back, I looked at the
twelve offices and they were all empty
231
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,580
I went up to the receptionist and I said,
�Where�s the marketing department?�
232
00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:52,000
And she�s looking she�s looking down and
writing on a yellow notepad and I and she
233
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,110
said �oh they�re gone, Jack came and fired
them just before lunch�
234
00:25:58,110 --> 00:26:02,080
The �Jack attack�
I�ve know idea where the term came from
235
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:11,990
The term the first time I heard it was long
after Commodore ceased to be but as as I said
236
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:20,000
when my father was �displeased� he made
made no secret of it
237
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:27,400
There were I remember as early as the times
I was working in the warehouse that I would
238
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:34,180
be you know in the warehouse you know moving
pallets around and I could hear dad
239
00:26:34,180 --> 00:26:39,690
yelling in his office
And I knew someone was, someone had not done
240
00:26:39,690 --> 00:26:41,380
exactly what he wanted
241
00:26:42,380 --> 00:26:49,060
Jack was thought of as being ruthless sometimes
because he held you to your word
242
00:26:49,060 --> 00:26:55,780
A young engineering manager once promised
to deliver something to him and he wanted
243
00:26:55,780 --> 00:26:59,830
six months to do it
So he built up a staff of thirty people and
244
00:26:59,830 --> 00:27:04,460
he started working on it
Six months later to the day Jack showed up
245
00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:09,550
and said, �Is it done?�
The engineer said, �no, we had some complications,
246
00:27:09,550 --> 00:27:14,230
we won�t have it done for another six months�
Jack fired everybody and closed down the operation
247
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:20,110
immediately
Later that afternoon I was in Jack�s office
248
00:27:20,110 --> 00:27:24,080
when one of the engineers came in, storming
in
249
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,640
He was in his twenties
And he said �I been here for five years,
250
00:27:29,650 --> 00:27:35,400
I�m not leaving, I helped build this company,
I�m going to sit in the hallway if I have
251
00:27:35,390 --> 00:27:41,560
to I�m not being fired�
And Jack said, �fine, go find yourself another job�
252
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,980
And you know what if the twenty-nine other
253
00:27:43,980 --> 00:27:48,060
people in that group were smart enough to
come and do that they would still have their jobs
254
00:27:48,580 --> 00:27:55,300
If he thought you were giving him nonsense
he would let you know at usually fairly high
255
00:27:55,310 --> 00:28:03,670
volume levels
So along with percussion on the nearest horizontal
256
00:28:03,670 --> 00:28:10,050
surface
So and and when he was displeased it was it
257
00:28:10,050 --> 00:28:16,950
was obvious
If you were emotionally resilient enough to
258
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:26,060
handle that and to realize that the that the
criticism what not criticism of you as a person
259
00:28:26,060 --> 00:28:33,560
but criticism of the job you had done and
could grow and learn from it then you wind
260
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,000
up with a group of people that will work very
well under those circumstances
261
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,710
My best Jack story happened in Germany
I had one of the Mercedes for the show and
262
00:28:43,710 --> 00:28:51,500
my job was to chauffeur Jack and Sig around
They�d spend a lot of time talking, spend
263
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:55,430
a lot of time touring the show, spent a lot
of time in bars
264
00:28:55,430 --> 00:29:01,850
So one time they�d both gotten really drunk
They were both sitting in the back seat singing
265
00:29:01,850 --> 00:29:10,340
German songs; they were having a great time
And Jack told the story of how he built this
266
00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:15,310
road that we were on because he was a prisoner
of war in Germany
267
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:21,820
Everyone talks about him designing all these
machines, which he neither designed nor actually
268
00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:28,240
knew how to use
The first computer that he was actually comfortable
269
00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:37,370
using was an I-pad and when he got comfortable
using it he just took to it immediately but
270
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:42,450
he never learned to program, never was interested
in doing any of that stuff
271
00:29:42,460 --> 00:29:49,050
He knew it wasn�t magic but assumed that
if he needed any expertise he would just hire it
272
00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:53,060
or he had a son that could do it for him
so it was fine
273
00:29:53,060 --> 00:29:55,060
[music]
274
00:30:55,410 --> 00:31:01,140
My dad brought home, in 1977, a Commodore
PET 2001
275
00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:03,780
Much like the gamers today that spend all
of their time in their bedrooms
276
00:31:03,780 --> 00:31:05,150
That�s what I did with a PET
277
00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:07,650
My first computer was a Commodore PET 4032
278
00:31:08,660 --> 00:31:12,340
My first experience of computers was the Commodore
PET
279
00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:21,820
The Commodore PET has certain characteristic
sounds when you get to know it
280
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:25,240
First of all there�s the sound and the feel
of your fingers on the keyboard
281
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:31,540
A sort of crunching sound, a comforting sound
really once once you get used to it not like
282
00:31:31,540 --> 00:31:35,730
keyboards today or anything God forbid flat,
glass screens that make no sound, where you
283
00:31:35,730 --> 00:31:40,690
have to put a synthesized sound in place
The actual touch from the touch-typing was
284
00:31:40,690 --> 00:31:46,050
an important feedback mechanism for the machine
It was as I think about quite nostalgically
285
00:31:46,050 --> 00:31:47,060
it was a very comfortable way
286
00:31:48,060 --> 00:31:56,550
Chuck moved out to California, assembled a
small team of people to work on the PET
287
00:31:56,550 --> 00:32:04,000
He did an awful lot of the work himself but
there were a few incredibly talented engineers
288
00:32:04,010 --> 00:32:09,610
involved, Chuck and me
Chuck knew that it needed to come with a programming
289
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,570
language that you could use it fresh out of
the box and the the best one available at
290
00:32:14,570 --> 00:32:19,700
the time, to some extent the only one, was
Microsoft BASIC
291
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:29,080
You know Gates comes in and says he wants
a dollar a machine and my father�s response
292
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:36,310
was �I�m already married�
So he offered Bill what at the time must have
293
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:43,380
seemed like an enormous amount of money - $50,000,
which he took
294
00:32:43,390 --> 00:32:51,080
Couple of years later Bill is walking around
with this entourage of Japanese businessmen
295
00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:59,450
And he comes up to the Commodore booth
If you typed WAIT6502 the next number would
296
00:32:59,450 --> 00:33:04,770
be the number of times the word Microsoft
was printed on the screen
297
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:10,940
And that�s what he expected to happen, instead
the machine just hung
298
00:33:10,930 --> 00:33:16,060
And I leaned over to Bill and said �you
know there�s nothing at that address, it�s
299
00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:21,780
just going to hang there�� and he gave
me the if looks could kill look
300
00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:27,060
And then I realised what he was doing and
said, �Your BASIC has been incredibly important
301
00:33:27,060 --> 00:33:31,300
to the to the success of this machine
It�s a great product and I�m really glad
302
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:37,170
we have it in our computers� and as a result
he let me live
303
00:33:37,170 --> 00:33:42,150
You may remember the first thing one of these
machines did would say COMMODORE BASIC with
304
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:50,900
so many bytes free; so we had the we loaded
the program that would read the number of
305
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:57,990
bytes free off of the screen, decode that
If it wasn�t the right number it meant that
306
00:33:57,980 --> 00:34:07,790
the memory had failed its online power test
So the the very first PETs actually self-diagnosed,
307
00:34:07,790 --> 00:34:09,360
which was pretty remarkable
308
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,570
The first model PET had this little or as
they called it chiclet keyboard with the little
309
00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:20,890
plastic things that came off on your fingers
and a cassette tape
310
00:34:20,890 --> 00:34:25,850
The next model had a larger full typewriter
spacing keyboard and then you would use an
311
00:34:25,850 --> 00:34:28,620
external cassette drive
312
00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:37,190
My main sort of single contribution to the
system was the graphics character set and
313
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:43,990
the only instruction I got from Chuck was
four of those images have to be hearts, diamonds,
314
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:47,020
spades and clubs because I want to play blackjack
315
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:56,550
I think the goal was to have the machine running
for the winter CES, Consumer Electronics Show,
316
00:34:56,540 --> 00:35:01,230
which didn�t work
We eventually figured out what was wrong,
317
00:35:01,230 --> 00:35:08,270
there was a resistor missing on the main circuit
board otherwise everything worked perfectly
318
00:35:08,270 --> 00:35:11,620
but we didn�t know that until a couple of
weeks later
319
00:35:11,620 --> 00:35:19,240
So enormous amounts of work went into meeting
the deadline of these shows
320
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:22,180
Yes so there was a lot of pressure at that
first Hannover fair so I guess that would
321
00:35:22,180 --> 00:35:27,640
have been spring of 1977
It was my job to take the PET
322
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,410
It got it�s own seat on the airplane next
to me, which was lots of fun
323
00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:36,850
Then we had to go through German customs
�What do you mean this is a computer? Computers
324
00:35:36,850 --> 00:35:41,720
are ten of millions of dollars and they�re
the size of a room
325
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:43,840
No it can�t be a computer, what are you
talking about?�
326
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,940
It went back and forth a couple of times
In the meantime we had missed the connecting
327
00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:56,570
flight from Frankfurt to Hannover
So we rented a VW microbus and drove from
328
00:35:56,570 --> 00:36:02,220
Frankfurt to Hannover
Took the PET, popped it down on the table,
329
00:36:02,220 --> 00:36:08,790
plugged it in and it didn�t work
So on the phone we had to diagnose what was
330
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:15,280
going on and repair the machine
Got it working and that was a lot of fun
331
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,360
VIC-20 with 8K expansion probably could have
got away with it at the time so that was all good
332
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,730
Fat graphics � yes we like the fat graphics
333
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:36,860
20 was it 20, 20, 22? 22, 22 yes
Yes it was, I mean the difference between
334
00:36:36,860 --> 00:36:41,550
the VIC and the Commodore�s graphics, yes
the Commodore was better but sometimes the
335
00:36:41,550 --> 00:36:44,710
VIC version is better
Oh look at that!
336
00:36:45,710 --> 00:36:50,260
Commodore was a very international company
We were the third largest personal computer
337
00:36:50,260 --> 00:36:57,210
company in the world but we were we were number
three in the US but were number one in Europe
338
00:36:57,210 --> 00:37:02,660
So as a result of having sold the Commodore
PET computer which was very popular especially
339
00:37:02,660 --> 00:37:07,670
in schools
So here we were at this meeting and it was
340
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:13,710
a large room with about twenty-five people
seated around a square table that was open
341
00:37:13,710 --> 00:37:18,700
in the centre
So Jack came in and the engineers they wanted
342
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:26,140
to do a colour computer like an Apple and
Jack said �I want a small introductory computer,
343
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:33,410
I want a small computer that plays games and
for for the masses not the classes�
344
00:37:33,410 --> 00:37:36,870
And as soon as he said that the whole room
erupted and everybody said, �no we have
345
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:41,020
to do a business computer, we have to compete
with Apple, we have to do a personal computer,
346
00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:45,970
we have to do larger computers not smaller�
And Jack said, �I want the small computer
347
00:37:45,970 --> 00:37:49,910
but you talk about it and I�ll come back
tomorrow, I have some business� so he left
348
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,370
Dad calls and he says the engineers have come
up with a new machine
349
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:58,270
I�d like you to come and take a look and
see what you think of it
350
00:37:58,270 --> 00:38:04,890
Go to Chicago go to the the Commodore booth
So there�s this little machine in a rectangular
351
00:38:04,890 --> 00:38:12,030
box hooked up to a TV showing all sorts of
PET graphics you know character sets stuff
352
00:38:12,030 --> 00:38:15,540
but in colour
And that was the birth of the of the VIC-20
353
00:38:16,850 --> 00:38:19,920
And that became the first generation of home
computers
354
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,530
The first million-seller of home computers
that seeded the market
355
00:38:24,530 --> 00:38:30,000
I came on as part of the VIC commando team,
which was the VIC-20 product launch team
356
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:36,500
So we launched the VIC-20 at the Consumer
Electronics Show in 1981
357
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:42,720
It was a hit
It actually went on to become the first million-seller
358
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,790
home computer; it�s the first microcomputer
of any kind to sell one million units
359
00:38:47,790 --> 00:38:49,570
When we first got the VIC-20 I had to share
it with my brother
360
00:38:49,570 --> 00:38:54,100
It was actually my parents bought it for me
and my brother; he�s three years older than me
361
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:56,130
And we we didn�t have anything else; we
362
00:38:56,130 --> 00:39:00,230
just had the computer and the TV
So we didn�t have any games for it, we didn�t
363
00:39:00,230 --> 00:39:03,760
have any software for it, all we had was the
computer and the manual
364
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:09,290
And so we started playing around trying to
figure out how to program in BASIC using the,
365
00:39:09,290 --> 00:39:12,590
you know they had some example programs in
the manual and it would teach you how to do things
366
00:39:12,590 --> 00:39:14,740
And then you know once I learned that I started
367
00:39:14,740 --> 00:39:15,880
making my own programs
368
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:23,430
The VIC could be programmed but it only had
5K of RAM memory
369
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:29,170
When you turned it on the 5K shrunk down to
3.5K
370
00:39:29,170 --> 00:39:32,620
3.5K is basically one sheet of typing papers
worth of memory
371
00:39:32,620 --> 00:39:33,920
Today we have gigabytes
372
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,940
The fat graphics really added to some of the
shooters
373
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:42,830
They were just chunky but fun
Yes and the sort of sound effects were just
374
00:39:42,830 --> 00:39:47,180
sort of raucous and just
Well you�re firing everything out the sound
375
00:39:47,180 --> 00:39:49,800
chip
Why isn�t it blowing up?
376
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,810
But it was it was that good
The sound�s massively loud through the speakers
377
00:39:54,810 --> 00:39:57,720
thinking is this real?
Is this going to really happen?
378
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:01,300
But that was how it was you know it got your
attention
379
00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:05,370
Some massive overly loud zapping sound, that�ll
draw you straight in you know Ooh playing
380
00:40:05,370 --> 00:40:08,320
this then
You would always have to be wary of the fact
381
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,960
of �oh can this game run on unexpanded VIC
or do I need 8K or 16K expansion?�
382
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,180
And thankfully a lot of games companies realised
that you didn�t want to take a chance with
383
00:40:17,180 --> 00:40:19,470
the game and realise it doesn�t work so
they�d always put �Unexpanded VIC-20�
384
00:40:19,470 --> 00:40:22,500
in nice big bold letters on the cover
385
00:40:23,740 --> 00:40:29,860
We wired up the memory externally to the VIC-20 and that gave us a full 8k of RAM to develop
386
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:33,180
cartridges
Once we got that we could actually start developing
387
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:42,200
more significant cartridges, more complicated
games like Omega Race, Gorf, Sargon II Chess,
388
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:49,700
the adventure games and things like that
Couldn�t do those on 3.5K but 8K was bare enough
389
00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:55,700
Some of our family members gave us some Christmas
presents that were VIC-20 cartridge games
390
00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:00,090
We got Omega Race, some kind of Sea Battle
or something like that
391
00:41:00,090 --> 00:41:07,160
Omega Race was definitely the best one
I still have that cartridge
392
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,830
The real winner of course was the Commodore
64
393
00:41:11,830 --> 00:41:16,210
Yes so the Commodore 64, which was the natural
outgrowth of the VIC
394
00:41:16,210 --> 00:41:23,030
The same people that designed that VIC chip
designed the VIC-II, which is what powered
395
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:27,310
the Commodore 64
And then it had an absolute brilliant sound chip
396
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:50,110
[music]
397
00:42:38,430 --> 00:42:44,520
And the Commodore with it�s Sound Interface
Device or the SID chip, as it�s affectionately known
398
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,520
really bundled up a hardware synthesizer
inside a home computer
399
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:54,070
And I knew then that that was a computer that
I just had to get my hands on
400
00:42:55,090 --> 00:43:00,880
A lot of the music on the games at that time
in the very early eighties was just really awful
401
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,110
And he did a couple of VIC-20 things then
we kind of went on to the 64 really, which
402
00:43:07,110 --> 00:43:09,870
was indeed obviously the SID chip [sings]
403
00:43:11,170 --> 00:43:17,490
The Commodore 64 sound chip it was it was
it was a decade ahead of everything else
404
00:43:17,490 --> 00:43:22,070
So even to the stage of where the Amiga came
out the Amiga couldn�t do the sounds that
405
00:43:22,070 --> 00:43:23,840
the Commodore 64 was doing
It was that good
406
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:30,710
I just had to choose the C64 because of the
64K memory and the fact that it had a sound
407
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:32,020
chip where none of the others did
408
00:43:33,020 --> 00:43:39,000
Hearing a piece of Rob�s I think it was
his arrangement of English Country Gardens
409
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,460
for was it for Hover Bother or something like
that?
410
00:43:41,460 --> 00:43:46,990
You know yum de da dum da da dum but it�s
a lovely arrangement and had some lovely little
411
00:43:46,990 --> 00:43:47,990
sounds, little twiddles in it
412
00:43:48,990 --> 00:43:55,350
The 64 was a huge eye-opener and it was also
a bit of an equalizer at home in terms of
413
00:43:55,350 --> 00:43:57,570
the different age groups getting people together
and playing a game
414
00:43:57,570 --> 00:44:01,270
You know where the youngest in the family
could beat the oldest or something you know
415
00:44:02,270 --> 00:44:05,680
You know there was no Internet at the time
There was no easy way, even getting to the
416
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,540
library was difficult
It was hard for your parents to haul five
417
00:44:08,540 --> 00:44:16,040
kids to the library but you know there was
these gems of resources that we would find
418
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,680
just on trips to the grocery store
I knew there was a big store that was nearby,
419
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:24,540
bring a pad and paper and actually write the
machine code myself, copying it because I
420
00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:28,220
couldn�t buy the book
And so I would sit there while my mom was
421
00:44:28,220 --> 00:44:32,540
shopping or while she was doing her thing
I would come home and have a piece of it,
422
00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:36,910
bring it to my Commodore 64 and have that
stored and I would have to wait another week
423
00:44:36,910 --> 00:44:38,600
to go by to get that next little piece
424
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:44,390
First Commodore 64 for I think three to fours
years and bearing in mind it was second-hand
425
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:50,660
anyway but it got to the point where it would
only load games if the cassette deck was upside down
426
00:44:50,660 --> 00:44:53,730
And sometimes I had to bang the computer on
427
00:44:53,730 --> 00:44:57,220
the desk to get it to work
And I guess I was seating the chips back in
428
00:44:57,220 --> 00:45:01,430
their sockets but as a as a twelve/thirteen
year old I had no idea about that sort of thing
429
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:08,470
I�ve been a Commodore 64 fan since 1985
and in that time I�ve been involved in programming,
430
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:16,740
composing music, running a disc magazine and
have also written a book about Commodore 64 games
431
00:45:18,740 --> 00:45:22,270
Commodore 64 was an amazing machine
My best friend Shaun at school, he had a Commodore 64
432
00:45:22,270 --> 00:45:25,230
and I was sort of envious because it was
actually one of the newer ones that came out
433
00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:30,120
the little you know sleek-looking white ones
Joe Blade was a brilliant game on the Commodore 64
434
00:45:30,130 --> 00:45:32,480
It was actually set in like you know the far
435
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:37,670
distant future in the year 1997 when London
had been taken over by thugs
436
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:40,700
And we got really far in that game and I remember
we actually left this Commodore 64 on for
437
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:43,920
about a week because you know we didn�t
want to lose our high score
438
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:51,130
And when I got the Commodore the technology
of the sound chip meant that I could explore
439
00:45:51,130 --> 00:45:56,660
musical ideas that perhaps lay just beyond
my technical playing ability
440
00:45:56,660 --> 00:46:03,380
I was really, really in to Ragtime for example
and I heard a couple of Ragtime-y kind of
441
00:46:03,380 --> 00:46:08,610
tracks in Rob Hubbard�s soundtrack to Action
Biker and then Martin Galway�s soundtrack
442
00:46:08,610 --> 00:46:12,920
to Kong Strikes Back
And that was the point really when I realised
443
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:20,560
that the Commodore 64 could be a vehicle for
exploring composition and performance in a
444
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,400
way that didn�t necessarily rely on instrumental
technique
445
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,640
I love music and you know we wanted to do
something different with music
446
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:37,900
And I remember seeing this advertisement in
one of the computer magazines from this guy
447
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:42,380
Rob Hubbard who basically was you know �I�ll
write games I�ll write music for your games�
448
00:46:42,380 --> 00:46:47,420
and and I think he even posted us a cassette
to say you know �here�s some of the stuff I've done
449
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:53,580
Eventually it clicked as to you know as to how it worked and what it was actually doing
450
00:46:54,520 --> 00:47:00,880
And then once you get, once you get that stuff
working without the computer crashing then
451
00:47:00,890 --> 00:47:03,820
basically it was like Pandora�s box opening
up
452
00:47:03,820 --> 00:47:09,120
I was thinking much more about the about the
SID chip
453
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,690
It kind of became like a popularity contest
really the more games you had the cooler you
454
00:47:13,690 --> 00:47:16,170
were at school
And if you were that kid that would come in
455
00:47:16,170 --> 00:47:19,480
with that you know new game that had just
come out in the shop on Monday morning that
456
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,080
every kid in school was asking for you�d
be the most popular kid in school that week
457
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,910
Commodore gaming was promoted through the
use of clubs
458
00:47:26,910 --> 00:47:32,160
Whoever had the faster ability of doing�tap,
tap, tap, click� or click, click, click�
459
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,450
or this - would obviously be the winner
Whoever got the most points we used to buy
460
00:47:36,450 --> 00:47:42,380
prizes as opposed to sweets, obviously the
Greek element would be buying a pile of souvlaki
461
00:47:43,380 --> 00:47:46,130
At school there were lots of people with different
machines
462
00:47:46,130 --> 00:47:50,870
I had a friend who had a Spectrum and I had
friends who had the Commodore 64 as well and
463
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:54,940
we would occasionally swap games to try something
out
464
00:47:54,940 --> 00:48:01,120
I remember one lunch time running home from
school with Ghostbusters, the tie in to the
465
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,970
film and playing that for about half an hour
instead of having lunch
466
00:48:05,970 --> 00:48:12,020
There was a real awful sample that was used
on the Ghostbusters, so it became apparent
467
00:48:12,020 --> 00:48:17,980
that you could do samples
[Ghostbusters- haha haha]
468
00:48:17,980 --> 00:48:24,800
What I wanted to do was try to find a way
to got the be able to play a sample not just
469
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:31,270
a little speech sample with nothing else going
on but to get a musical, get something integrated
470
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:36,080
in the music so distorted rock guitar was
an obvious choice
471
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:43,910
What could I do sound you know with the technology
to get more out of the sound chip
472
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:46,840
And one of the things that I developed was
sampling
473
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:54,210
I realised you can play the the SID voices,
the three voices whilst the sampling plays
474
00:48:54,210 --> 00:48:57,760
over it
And that was a revelation and they did it
475
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,390
with the volume register
476
00:49:00,390 --> 00:49:05,780
The Commodore 64 now was the one that myself
and my brother we we sort of saved up our money
477
00:49:05,780 --> 00:49:08,470
We worked overtime, we heard this machine
478
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:14,290
was coming out and it was going to be the
greatest, most wonderful new thing and we
479
00:49:14,290 --> 00:49:18,520
we saved up our money and we, as teenagers,
and bought a Commodore 64
480
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,530
And my goodness we were very happy with it,
an absolutely amazing machine
481
00:49:24,530 --> 00:49:25,530
What was the the culture like at Commodore
UK?
482
00:49:25,530 --> 00:49:27,850
Was was it hard work?
Was it a lot of partying?
483
00:49:27,850 --> 00:49:29,120
What went on?
484
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:39,150
There was always partying
We, we really I guess supported the the the
485
00:49:39,150 --> 00:49:41,540
idea that �you work hard, you play hard�
486
00:49:42,540 --> 00:49:47,570
Soon as David joined, I met David Pleasance
when he first joined the company in sales
487
00:49:47,570 --> 00:49:58,560
I was already there and David was a master
of creating interesting bundles for retail
488
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:06,420
Great, great program that was developed was,
while I was there, was International Soccer
489
00:50:07,420 --> 00:50:14,170
I walked past a computer store and I saw a
game playing in the window and it was International
490
00:50:14,170 --> 00:50:17,980
Soccer on the Commodore 64
And there was colour, there was sound, there
491
00:50:17,980 --> 00:50:21,330
was animation, there was graphics
I just had to have that machine
492
00:50:22,330 --> 00:50:28,330
This game was unbelievable and it was only
possible because the 64 had sprites
493
00:50:28,330 --> 00:50:31,830
No other computer had these programmable,
movable objects
494
00:50:42,770 --> 00:50:47,420
So the SID station was a project at Chalmers
University of Technology where a couple of
495
00:50:47,420 --> 00:50:52,140
guys had this course to make something that
involved programmable logic
496
00:50:52,140 --> 00:50:57,660
And they had two ideas; one was like a MIDI
CD converter and the other was something called
497
00:50:57,660 --> 00:51:03,110
SIDomania
And SIDomania was a synthesizer based on the
498
00:51:03,110 --> 00:51:05,980
SID chip
The SID station is a tabletop synthesizer
499
00:51:05,980 --> 00:51:10,560
module
So it�s got a few direct controls that control
500
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:11,560
sound parameters
501
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:18,180
It�s got a few things for entering tables
and stuff that you would do on a on a regular
502
00:51:18,180 --> 00:51:21,120
Commodore 64 and a tracker but in a hardware
box
503
00:51:22,180 --> 00:51:26,320
Hey, there�s this company called Commodore
hiring
504
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,700
Yes I need to get out of here
So without really knowing; I was saving my
505
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:34,920
money for an Atari 400, I couldn�t even
afford an 800 back then
506
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:40,810
So I I didn�t know much about Commodore
and I was about to become an Atari fan but
507
00:51:40,810 --> 00:51:42,390
that stopped the day I got to Commodore
508
00:51:43,390 --> 00:51:50,960
We brought this Commodore 64 and it totally
amazing because we had a PDP 23 I think it was
509
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,410
And the boss was very �Oh you know you have
510
00:51:53,410 --> 00:51:57,680
to be very careful around the PDP 23�
And here�s Bil with this Commodore 64 and
511
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:04,630
you can type in �LOAD, $8, 8� or whatever
but you know it would do a disc drive in a
512
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:09,180
directory and all these things
And that was like you know �working on computers
513
00:52:09,180 --> 00:52:12,580
seems a little bit more interesting than building
scales�
514
00:52:13,580 --> 00:52:20,780
So I go to interview with Bob Russell who
you know worked on parts of the VIC-20 and C64
515
00:52:20,790 --> 00:52:24,230
And you know it�s going OK and stuff but
516
00:52:24,220 --> 00:52:27,820
then at one point he said �why am I LOADX
immediate 02?� and I�d go �8502�
517
00:52:27,820 --> 00:52:33,140
And he looks at me and he goes �then I�d
store immediate� and I�m like �8D109�
518
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:38,280
I�m muttering the opcodes that I know from
having worked on the 6502 so closely
519
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,920
And I saw his body language change you know
He�s like �Ok we�ll have you down to
520
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:47,710
the plant type thing�
Well he he phrased it so nonchalantly, just
521
00:52:47,710 --> 00:52:52,000
swing by the plant
I thought I was going for burgers or something
522
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,680
right
So I don�t even bring my resume and I�m
523
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,500
in like corduroys or something when I swing
by
524
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:02,370
And first thing I do is when I go to interview
with Shiraz Shivji who�s the guy who�s
525
00:53:02,370 --> 00:53:06,580
either going to hire me or not
He had his desk turned around the wrong way
526
00:53:06,580 --> 00:53:10,330
and I didn�t know so I run I walk in and
pop myself in his chair
527
00:53:10,330 --> 00:53:14,390
And he walks in and has to like �excuse
me, you are in my chair�
528
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:17,140
Oh right
And then goes �where�s your resume?�
529
00:53:17,140 --> 00:53:20,510
I�m going �I didn�t bring one�
And it�s over, the interview is over at
530
00:53:20,510 --> 00:53:24,700
that point but now Frank Hughes stops by;
the guy who did work he goes �oh Shiraz
531
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:28,150
I got it�
So he brings it in and I�m starting to you
532
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:33,600
know kind of hit my stride, talking and stuff
And I just happen to mention a the K-Tron
533
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,440
the vibrating wire technology, I know its
one of our competitors, but I went into the
534
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,740
detail you know if you if you say you�re
a satellite, you know satellite, you better
535
00:53:41,740 --> 00:53:45,110
be able to talk satellite
Well I�m weighing instrumentation so I better
536
00:53:45,110 --> 00:53:47,620
talk it
And what I did there was I said, �it uses
537
00:53:47,620 --> 00:53:51,490
a reference weight verses a regular weight
and it can even work on the moon�
538
00:53:51,490 --> 00:53:56,300
And Shiraz looked at me and said �you meant
mass� and I was hired because he got to
539
00:53:56,300 --> 00:53:57,880
correct me
540
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:04,090
I was early enough when I joined Commodore
where we were still up in the MOS building
541
00:54:04,090 --> 00:54:11,360
And so it�s these tiny rooms painted psychotic
blue and there was three engineers in there
542
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,150
and you didn�t need the door you could�ve
put a forth engineer in there
543
00:54:15,150 --> 00:54:19,250
And none of cared because like there�s a
chip fab right below our feet and stuff
544
00:54:19,250 --> 00:54:23,080
So that�s where I did what became known
as the TED series of computers
545
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:28,200
I did that while working at the MOS building
And then after we moved down to Westchester
546
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:35,390
into that huge facility there, we got got
Hedley and a guy named Terry Fisher �Fish�
547
00:54:35,390 --> 00:54:41,130
who joined us and he did all the PC boards
So we had like the cream of the crop of the
548
00:54:41,130 --> 00:54:42,480
skill company was now down here
549
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:48,390
One of the very first tasks I was given, well
it came from a guy named Andy Finkel
550
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:57,440
And he told me to re-write the cassette loader
code for the C128 to make it run faster and
551
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,080
run better than the code that was used on
the C64
552
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:06,530
But he put this one perverse constraint �you
cannot move any labels�
553
00:55:06,530 --> 00:55:10,500
So every label in the assembly code had to
stay in exactly the same place because Andy
554
00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:14,910
was of the opinion that programmers would
randomly jump to any label that had gotten
555
00:55:14,910 --> 00:55:20,850
out there and they were all public
So it was a very odd thing to have to do but
556
00:55:20,850 --> 00:55:22,020
that�s what I ended up doing
557
00:55:23,020 --> 00:55:26,860
The John Lennon looking guy from the from
the outside was there and that was Bil Herd
558
00:55:26,860 --> 00:55:34,640
And he proceeded to ask me some technical
questions about about saturation limiting
559
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:39,460
diodes on the input of op-amps and also about
Laplace transforms, which he didn�t know
560
00:55:39,460 --> 00:55:44,940
how to do
And it was like yes so I think we had a really
561
00:55:44,940 --> 00:55:49,240
good interview and sure enough a day or so
later they called me in to visit Commodore
562
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:52,490
on Monday and offered me a job on the spot
563
00:55:53,490 --> 00:55:56,500
I had the long hair going so I looked like
Floyd the drummer of the Muppet Show, the
564
00:55:56,500 --> 00:56:02,210
way he walked and so you know
So I was unlike most people you know because
565
00:56:02,210 --> 00:56:06,580
in California I might have been more normal
but here out here on the East coast our engineers
566
00:56:06,580 --> 00:56:11,900
had actually turned into a pretty stodgy bunch
and I was able to help turn it back into animal house
567
00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:13,660
And then we had fun
568
00:56:14,660 --> 00:56:17,530
A guy I used to work with was a guy named
George Robbins
569
00:56:17,530 --> 00:56:22,260
He was a character
I say we lived at Commodore, we worked at
570
00:56:22,260 --> 00:56:25,300
Commodore, we would go home at night and at
least sleep in our bed, occasionally take
571
00:56:25,300 --> 00:56:29,780
as shower and show up the next day
George lived at work
572
00:56:29,780 --> 00:56:32,940
George had two cubicles where the rest of
us had one
573
00:56:32,940 --> 00:56:34,520
George had a nest
574
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:41,610
George had managed to get caught once driving
a car with no driver�s licence, an expired
575
00:56:41,610 --> 00:56:44,870
registration and no insurance
576
00:56:45,870 --> 00:56:51,230
I parked the truck against a telephone pole
After the cops were done with me and I�d
577
00:56:51,230 --> 00:56:53,670
like take care of a little detail like call
Hedley
578
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:59,040
So he gave me a ride into Commodore you know
not long after I became known as the resident
579
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,040
Commodore person [laughing in background]
580
00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:05,430
So George just decided he was going to live
at Commodore
581
00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:10,110
Greg Berlin and I had discovered that down
in the factory area up like in this weird
582
00:57:10,110 --> 00:57:14,010
sort of mid-floor area in the factory there
was a place where they would stash stash all
583
00:57:14,010 --> 00:57:18,710
the Herman Miller furniture to improve our
offices by putting up doorways and things
584
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:22,960
that weren�t ever supposed to be there
And George had done the same thing only even
585
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,080
more so that he had kind of made himself a
little room that he could close off, which
586
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:28,080
we called his nest
587
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:33,400
Yes well the, I was the one who coined the
phrase �nesting�
588
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,440
You know whereas I had the air mattress and
stuff George would sleep in bubble wrap
589
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,530
And then he�d get up and he�d be walking
around and he�d have these red rings, blinking
590
00:57:40,530 --> 00:57:44,900
his eyes and stuff but he�d have these little
impressions all over his face from the bubble wrap
591
00:57:44,910 --> 00:57:47,080
And when you went to look for George, because
592
00:57:47,070 --> 00:57:50,600
he didn�t always sleep in the same place,
you�d look under something see like a foot
593
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:55,150
sticking out of bubble wrap � found him
You know it was literally like a mouse nest
594
00:57:55,150 --> 00:57:57,310
at that part, so we called it nesting
595
00:57:58,310 --> 00:58:00,640
I kept a sleeping bag
I could sleep under my desk when I needed
596
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,470
to but I wasn�t planning to live there full-time
but George kind of was
597
00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:09,140
And he�d also take, he�d also take sort
of sponge baths in the, in the bathroom
598
00:58:09,140 --> 00:58:14,840
We didn�t have a shower and so yes he was
kind of a character, that�s just part of it
599
00:58:14,850 --> 00:58:17,570
George got paid in cash, he didn�t have
600
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,620
direct deposit and at some point they found
out that he had like six months of un-cashed
601
00:58:21,620 --> 00:58:28,140
pay cheques in his drawer, in his office because
he was never leaving and you know maybe to
602
00:58:28,140 --> 00:58:32,050
eat he�d drive you know, I mean all of us
would had cars and we�d go out
603
00:58:33,050 --> 00:58:35,620
And you know we are all in our twenties and
thirties and we�re getting paid good money
604
00:58:35,620 --> 00:58:40,080
we think and you know we�re doing okay
And George has decided he needs money
605
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:45,050
And he reaches into his pocket and he pulls
out six months worth of pay cheques
606
00:58:45,050 --> 00:58:50,770
What that George?
He said, �Oh I need to cash out some�
607
00:58:50,770 --> 00:58:52,500
Because he needs a deposit, because he didn�t
spend any money, because he didn�t have
608
00:58:52,500 --> 00:58:54,500
any expenses, he lived in the building you
know
609
00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:58,510
So he had this huge pile
He filled out six months of pay cheques and
610
00:58:58,510 --> 00:59:01,850
of course I�m sitting there going �oh
man what I could� you know we are all like
611
00:59:01,850 --> 00:59:03,880
�wow that�s a, that�s a chunk of change�
612
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:11,140
So he was forced by personnel to open an account
with direct deposit because I guess they didn�t
613
00:59:11,140 --> 00:59:18,360
like the idea of cheques not being cashed
Yes it was funny, that�s a, I mean there�s,
614
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,440
you could you could come up with a lot of
different George stories if you thought about it
615
00:59:21,860 --> 00:59:23,320
Yes George, George was, he was a character
616
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:29,140
We worked to go to CES and George was an engineer, a key engineer on the product, actually it
617
00:59:29,340 --> 00:59:34,760
might have been when the A500 came out and
the mandate came down that everybody going
618
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:39,900
to CES had to wear a suit
So you had to have a tie and a suit and you
619
00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:42,220
had to look good
And all of George�s attire were were you
620
00:59:42,220 --> 00:59:48,190
know blue jeans with battery acid holes in
them and ripped T-shirts just because he didn�t
621
00:59:48,190 --> 00:59:53,760
feel that dressing up was sort of his thing
But he wanted to go to CES and so he needed
622
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,910
to get a suit
So he goes out and he buys this, this synthetic
623
00:59:57,910 --> 01:00:04,490
material, polyester suit, sort of tan coloured
right and he�s got the suit
624
01:00:04,490 --> 01:00:07,910
So now we are in the labs and we have to figure
out how to get to CES
625
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:13,780
So the rest of us have this thing called luggage
that we put our clothes in but George doesn�t
626
01:00:13,780 --> 01:00:17,270
possess any of this so he�s not sure exactly
what he�s going to do
627
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:23,420
So literally he takes a grocery bag and he
jams his suit in the grocery bag
628
01:00:23,420 --> 01:00:29,360
He rolls the grocery bag over and he puts
duct tape on the outside of the bag and this
629
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,410
is his luggage
So he takes this thing and I�ll never forget
630
01:00:33,410 --> 01:00:36,960
sitting there in Las Vegas waiting for the
luggage to come down and it�s coming down
631
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:41,670
and here comes rolling George�s bag
So then what happened?
632
01:00:41,670 --> 01:00:46,060
Well it�s a polyester suit and it�s been
all scrunched up and compressed
633
01:00:46,060 --> 01:00:49,990
So he puts the suit on and now the sleeves
are like up to here and he�s got this wrinkly
634
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:54,050
suit on
And he shows up and so management finally
635
01:00:54,050 --> 01:00:57,600
said �George you don�t have to work the
booth, you know, you don�t have to wear
636
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:04,050
the suit, you know, go see CES� and and
they never really fought him on that again
637
01:01:04,050 --> 01:01:05,710
One of the best engineers I ever worked with
638
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:10,590
It took a few years to get around this and
now I have my own car and my own house and
639
01:01:10,590 --> 01:01:18,490
I don�t live at Commodore anymore but I
love it anyway
640
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:24,750
Commodore stock went through the ceiling,
the Commodore stock went up and split a couple
641
01:01:24,750 --> 01:01:31,390
of times
In fact Jack and his three sons had a tradition
642
01:01:31,390 --> 01:01:36,440
that whenever the stock went up ten points
they would all stop and share a bottle of
643
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:40,800
Dom Perignon champagne
And I I�m privileged to say I was with them
644
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,720
several times when they did that
That was pretty cool and it�s a, it�s
645
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:50,590
a kind of an interesting symbol of the growth
we were achieving
646
01:01:50,590 --> 01:01:58,450
We were not just growing the market
We weren�t just giving millions of people
647
01:01:58,450 --> 01:02:03,790
a computer that couldn�t afford before
We were also making a lot of money for investors
648
01:02:03,790 --> 01:02:06,530
and showing that this was a profitable enterprise
649
01:02:07,530 --> 01:02:10,310
Jack Tramiel done his Apple killer and it
was the Commodore 64
650
01:02:10,310 --> 01:02:14,000
He was done with Apple
We used to say Apple who?
651
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,370
I mean that�s just that was it, they were,
they were cooked in our book
652
01:02:17,370 --> 01:02:21,610
And like it�s true and we did twenty-seven
million C64�s where as Apple 2 might have
653
01:02:21,610 --> 01:02:27,850
sold five and a half million or something
So we didn�t need another games machine
654
01:02:27,850 --> 01:02:34,290
what, what, what Jack wanted was Sir Clive
Sinclair�s spot now you know
655
01:02:34,290 --> 01:02:39,320
And he had the little Spectrum and things
and he�s like I want him next, right, I
656
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:43,340
want that
And so the, the C116 if you saw when Shiraz
657
01:02:43,340 --> 01:02:46,920
pulled it out and showed it to me
It was this big; it was the Raspberry Pi of
658
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,280
the day
It was supposed to cost $49 and it had chiclet
659
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:55,750
keys but it had 121 colours, had built in
sound, all in one chips, basically a chip
660
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:59,840
with a computer built around it
Which back then it used to be lots of chips right
661
01:03:01,260 --> 01:03:08,660
As the company got more and more successful
and more and more perks came up like, as my
662
01:03:08,660 --> 01:03:13,600
father called it the PET jet
Although it probably should have been called
663
01:03:13,740 --> 01:03:19,020
the Commodore 64 jet but that didn�t sound
as good
664
01:03:19,020 --> 01:03:29,110
Irving would demand use of the PET jet whenever
he could and dad didn�t like this, it did
665
01:03:29,110 --> 01:03:38,100
not fit with his you know morals of what the
right thing for a company asset to be used for
666
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:42,120
Then there was the one with the full size
keyboard and TED meant text display
667
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,490
It was supposed to be a business machine
You want to play games get a 64
668
01:03:46,490 --> 01:03:51,530
In a matter of fact the price is completely
different right but we�re not, we�re not
669
01:03:51,530 --> 01:03:56,930
trying to compete with ourselves
So Jack had that, had that focus that he knew
670
01:03:56,930 --> 01:03:58,810
what, what he wanted to do with the market
671
01:03:59,810 --> 01:04:13,200
I think both Commodore and Apple had in 1983,
so the CES was in January of 1984, had just
672
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:20,800
each cost a billions dollars in annual sales
As I like to point out Commodore doing it
673
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,770
with machines that cost a tenth as much as
the Apple machines
674
01:04:24,770 --> 01:04:26,820
So a few more machines being sold
675
01:04:27,820 --> 01:04:34,690
An argument going on between Jack and Irving
upstairs in the booth and I was there and
676
01:04:34,690 --> 01:04:40,070
suddenly I got this, I was demonstrating and
suddenly I got, somebody came over and said
677
01:04:40,070 --> 01:04:44,940
you got to come up and explain you know the
plus/4 to them
678
01:04:44,940 --> 01:04:53,780
So I went up and I I didn�t really know
Irving I know Jack a lot better and so I went
679
01:04:53,780 --> 01:04:59,740
through my spiel you know explaining what,
what it was, what are, what we wanted it to
680
01:04:59,740 --> 01:05:03,670
do
How it was going to prop up the price of the
681
01:05:03,670 --> 01:05:10,100
C64 and you know they both, the people in
the room listened and then I was dismissed
682
01:05:11,100 --> 01:05:16,620
There was a celebration for Commodore�s;
I guess it was 25th anniversary
683
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,620
at the time or the 30th, if I do the math
quickly
684
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:32,140
And dad gave Irving an ultimatum and said,
�You can�t use company assets as if they�re
685
01:05:32,140 --> 01:05:36,520
your own
As long as I�m president you can�t, you
686
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:42,460
have to stop
So either you stop doing it or I quit�
687
01:05:42,460 --> 01:05:49,580
To which Irving said �goodbye� and dad
quit
688
01:05:49,580 --> 01:05:59,150
Just you know left the room and quit
Walked by my wife on the, in the hall and
689
01:05:59,150 --> 01:06:12,780
looking rather stern and upset
She was kind of shocked and that�s, he just quit
690
01:06:13,780 --> 01:06:17,980
There are allsorts of stories
I think the official Commodore story is that
691
01:06:17,980 --> 01:06:24,600
there was a board meeting in New York a couple
of weeks later where they fired him
692
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,760
I�m pretty sure he wasn�t at the meeting
693
01:06:28,930 --> 01:06:33,270
When Jack leaves and he leaves literally at
a CES
694
01:06:33,270 --> 01:06:40,660
Jack has a disagreement with Irving Gould,
they part ways literally at the CES show and
695
01:06:40,660 --> 01:06:47,020
at that point TED literally died because now
there is nobody to focus all those things
696
01:06:48,310 --> 01:06:54,400
The new generation Corvettes
So the three of us got together and bought
697
01:06:54,400 --> 01:07:01,480
him one of these Corvettes at that same Consumer
Electronics Show
698
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:08,900
So Sam and Garry drove it down to Las Vegas
for that same show and unbeknownst to us that
699
01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:14,390
you know this whole quitting Commodore thing
was going to happen we were going to give
700
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:20,610
him this this fun present
So Garry arranges to have the car parked in
701
01:07:20,610 --> 01:07:26,120
the front of the hotel and then they went
outside just on some pretence
702
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:32,350
And dad walks out and sees the car and goes
�that�s it, that�s the car, that�s
703
01:07:32,350 --> 01:07:34,640
what I want�
And he walks up to it and he goes �it�s
704
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:39,020
the right colour and it�s got all the right
you know it�s got the right, right wheels
705
01:07:39,020 --> 01:07:42,830
and the right interior and the right everything
and this is perfect�
706
01:07:42,830 --> 01:07:50,050
And Garry reaches into his pocket, pulls out
the keys and says, �it�s yours�
707
01:07:50,050 --> 01:07:57,930
Yes and then a couple of days later he quits
and hops in the car and drives home
708
01:07:58,930 --> 01:08:03,970
I didn�t really know him I you know, I�d
seen him a couple of times but Jack was still
709
01:08:03,970 --> 01:08:09,600
there, he didn�t leave until after Consumer
Electronics Show that January
710
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,410
Couple of weeks after that is when he left
so yes so I was there basically for the tail
711
01:08:13,410 --> 01:08:16,750
end of the Jack Tramiel era
It didn�t, didn�t really have an impact
712
01:08:16,750 --> 01:08:20,620
A lot of the people who had made the Commodore
64 had left a long time ago
713
01:08:22,980 --> 01:08:28,500
But the, but without Jack around the sheep
started multiplying without a wolf right and
714
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:32,000
pretty soon we�re stepping in sheep shit
everywhere right
715
01:08:32,010 --> 01:08:38,960
So and, and meanwhile you know we go from
a core of about twelve people, eight to twelve
716
01:08:38,950 --> 01:08:42,600
people doing all the work
The department blooms up to fifteen and it�s
717
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,230
still the same core of eight to twelve of
us doing all the work
718
01:08:45,230 --> 01:08:48,560
They didn�t know the new computer you have
to start over again
719
01:08:48,570 --> 01:08:52,060
Get developers on board
And this is more than marketing that that
720
01:08:52,050 --> 01:08:54,340
dropped the ball
Anybody that had only been there a couple
721
01:08:54,340 --> 01:09:02,890
of years thought that C64�s sell themselves
They sure acted like they did we sold 27 million
722
01:09:02,900 --> 01:09:07,030
But then they upped the price for the TED
series and called it the Plus/4 and it became
723
01:09:07,020 --> 01:09:12,560
$300
Well it was designed to be $79
724
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:18,330
So, so that thing now dies on the vine but
what that shows then is you know with, with
725
01:09:18,330 --> 01:09:22,200
Jack we had a focus
He didn�t think a distributor should make
726
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:26,080
any money off hardware and he didn�t think
we should make too much money off hardware
727
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:30,640
He thinks, he thinks you should have, have
a good price for a good product but not overcharge
728
01:09:30,650 --> 01:09:34,900
And distributors like �oh we want to make
nice� no you�ll make that on the software
729
01:09:34,890 --> 01:09:41,010
but, but you don�t make it on my hardware
So that, he would, he would enforce that so
730
01:09:41,010 --> 01:09:44,810
you know without him doing that then you know
here�s a $300 thing, why is that?
731
01:09:44,810 --> 01:09:46,930
So he gets a hundred, he gets a hundred and
he gets a hundred
732
01:09:48,090 --> 01:09:52,460
Fifty top executives, engineers and marketeers
at Commodore all walked out of the company
733
01:09:52,460 --> 01:09:56,510
in one week
It�s as if we set our time clock six months,
734
01:09:56,510 --> 01:10:00,730
we never talked to each other
The six-month point came, we weren�t happy
735
01:10:00,730 --> 01:10:03,800
with what we saw at the company
We weren�t being allowed to develop the
736
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,250
new computers that we had in mind
Had a lot of new, new stuff and prototypes
737
01:10:08,250 --> 01:10:14,080
in development, so we all walked out
Greg Pratt the president of Commodore USA,
738
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:21,670
me, all the VIC Commandoes, many of the engineers,
the whole infrastructure just walked out in
739
01:10:21,670 --> 01:10:22,670
one week
740
01:10:23,670 --> 01:10:28,790
I jumped ship to what had be called the D128
and, and there�s a story with the day that
741
01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:34,810
happened
But the, we ended up in engineering deciding
742
01:10:34,810 --> 01:10:41,030
to do the C128 because no one stopped us
This wasn�t from on high, this wasn�t
743
01:10:41,030 --> 01:10:43,860
�there�s our project to plan for this
year�
744
01:10:43,860 --> 01:10:48,450
Couple of engineers, I sat down at a table,
I, I drew, I threw away the old guy�s design
745
01:10:48,450 --> 01:10:54,260
because it just wasn�t going to go anywhere
used their little grid paper and hand drew
746
01:10:54,260 --> 01:10:57,560
a schematic that became the C128
747
01:11:02,980 --> 01:11:06,400
And as, we show it to management when we�d
get a certain distance and they�re like
748
01:11:06,580 --> 01:11:10,290
� this is great, I had a great idea� we�re
like �I need another guy on my team �yes
749
01:11:10,290 --> 01:11:13,600
you�ve got it� you know
And so we marched it down field by building
750
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:19,060
up resources and things but it�s like we
told them it�s now called the C128 you know
751
01:11:19,060 --> 01:11:25,220
because we decided, it was us that decided
to make it Commodore compatible to the Commodore 64
752
01:11:25,220 --> 01:11:27,060
And we hadn�t said a hundred percent compatible,
753
01:11:27,060 --> 01:11:31,910
that was marketing once again drifting through
the picture like they, like they were in a
754
01:11:31,910 --> 01:11:36,160
drunken haze �oh it�s a hundred percent
compatible� well no, never said that but
755
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:37,160
we�ll try
756
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:41,620
Yes I, I, it�s hard to say, I think a lot
of people are just like the idea it�s bigger,
757
01:11:41,620 --> 01:11:46,980
better, faster, more but is also runs my old
programs so I don�t have to keep the Commodore
758
01:11:46,980 --> 01:11:51,420
64 around you know, which is, that�s a significant
thing
759
01:11:52,420 --> 01:11:56,890
The 128 was there to fill a gap right
We needed something for CES and we know the
760
01:11:56,890 --> 01:11:59,080
Amiga�s coming
I�m actually one of the people they brought
761
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:04,500
and I looked at the spec and said, �Why
are there tanks instead of business icons?�
762
01:12:04,500 --> 01:12:11,040
So we saw the 128 as just basically if, if
the main thrust of the allied forces was,
763
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:15,310
was the Amiga it was me and my crew went up
to the mountains and held the mountain pass
764
01:12:15,310 --> 01:12:18,120
for the winter you know that how I kind of
look at it
765
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,910
And so the 128 was only meant to sell one
year
766
01:12:22,540 --> 01:12:29,580
And Yes I know we sold I know six or seven
million of them at least and that was, it
767
01:12:29,580 --> 01:12:33,440
worked more than most people, you know most
companies were selling as far as a single
768
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:36,480
model of the computer
It didn�t, you know it didn�t match the,
769
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:40,680
you know the twenty-something million of the,
of the C64 but nobody else did either
770
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,270
There was supposed to a C128D and that was
my favourite computer
771
01:12:45,270 --> 01:12:47,540
It was supposed to come out at the exact same
time
772
01:12:47,540 --> 01:12:52,290
And that�s the one with the built-in drive,
the keyboard clipped under it and it didn�t
773
01:12:52,290 --> 01:12:54,370
get made
And I didn�t know it didn�t get produced
774
01:12:54,370 --> 01:12:59,300
until after I�d quit because I kind of wandered
off after and I was burnt
775
01:12:59,300 --> 01:13:06,350
I was just fried, I, I, I, I had used a lot
of me up in a very short period of time
776
01:13:06,350 --> 01:13:09,940
Do you know the hole-in-the-wall story?
Have you heard the hole-in-the-wall story?
777
01:13:10,940 --> 01:13:11,940
No tell us it then
778
01:13:12,940 --> 01:13:16,280
Ok, so the hole-in-the-wall story
We, we, as you know, we were working very
779
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:20,950
hard and didn�t need delays that we didn�t
need to be there in the first place and Commodore
780
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:27,430
found a new way to throw one in front of us
And I�d moved in to this one room with,
781
01:13:27,430 --> 01:13:32,810
where I had this big emulator and on the weekends
they would turn off the, the air conditioner
782
01:13:32,810 --> 01:13:37,450
So I would wear a headband and no shirt and
I would have to keep washing it off about
783
01:13:37,450 --> 01:13:40,560
every twenty minutes with spray because I�d
dripped sweat on it
784
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:44,120
But none the less it was my room and that�s
where I did my work
785
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:47,600
Then one day I show up and the door�s locked
on the weekend
786
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,190
�Oh this is inconvenient�
So I climb up over the ceiling and I get that
787
01:13:51,190 --> 01:13:53,990
white crap all over me and I open the door,
right
788
01:13:53,990 --> 01:13:57,450
And we put up a sign that says �don�t
lock this door, there is no key for it�
789
01:13:57,450 --> 01:14:00,890
because you know it was a brand new facility
for us and they�d never ever turned the
790
01:14:00,890 --> 01:14:05,140
key over we figured
Well the security guards can�t resist a
791
01:14:05,140 --> 01:14:10,140
door than can be locked and locked it again
Climb up over, get the white crap all over
792
01:14:10,140 --> 01:14:14,340
me again, put a sign that says �no don�t
lock this door, there�s no key for it�
793
01:14:14,340 --> 01:14:18,750
I may have said assholes or something
So finally it�s locked again
794
01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:25,060
They said I could punch through the wall in
one punch
795
01:14:25,060 --> 01:14:29,640
It was actually two, one for the inside layer,
one for the outside layer to where I could
796
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:34,080
reach in and unlock the door right
So by the time I�ve got it open, then I
797
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,060
got the white crap all over my arm now instead
of me
798
01:14:37,060 --> 01:14:40,910
And there�s a bunch of Z8000 programmers
you know looking like I just shot a sheep
799
01:14:40,910 --> 01:14:46,160
or something and the next day they locked
the door again
800
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:50,370
So I had to put a sign up that said �look
assholes there�s a f****ing hole in the
801
01:14:50,370 --> 01:14:53,490
wall, stop locking the door�
That�s the hole-in-the-wall story
802
01:15:01,730 --> 01:15:04,440
You don�t get to bark
We�re doing something important here where
803
01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:12,730
no barking is important
Are we rolling?
804
01:15:12,730 --> 01:15:17,740
Welcome to RJ Mical�s house of construction,
ha-ha ha-ha
805
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,860
You know you probably won�t be able to get
to show any of the house, will you?
806
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:23,340
Don�t worry I can see it right now
807
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,680
Yes, oh good, ok well
808
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:35,840
I�m RJ Mical and I was one of the original
engineers that invented the Amiga computer
809
01:15:35,850 --> 01:15:41,720
a long time ago and since then I�ve done
a lot with my life
810
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,000
I�ve done a lot with my career and managed
to go a lot of places
811
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:54,250
But I got to tell you that Amiga thing stands
out as, as one of the most precious and and
812
01:15:54,250 --> 01:16:01,540
special periods of my life and I think the
thing I�ve created that I�m most delighted about
813
01:16:03,820 --> 01:16:09,420
When I first got into Amiga I was I was a
very young kid and this was a fantastic escape
814
01:16:09,650 --> 01:16:11,740
and that machine I absolutely loved
815
01:16:12,750 --> 01:16:19,240
The sound on the Amiga was a bit of a game
changer so for the first time video game music
816
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:24,690
and computer music began to sound like production
music
817
01:16:25,690 --> 01:16:30,080
And when I saw the specs of the Amiga and
some demos and stuff like that I was like
818
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,330
this is this is the next level you know
819
01:16:33,330 --> 01:16:35,620
My love is the Amiga 500 and the CD32
820
01:16:36,620 --> 01:16:45,880
And I got an Amiga 1000 and I was I was probably
mostly known for doing the Budbrain mega demos 1 and 2
821
01:16:50,130 --> 01:16:53,430
The first time I played the Amiga was when
my cousin had it
822
01:16:53,430 --> 01:16:58,110
My cousin was four years older than me so
he had this Amiga and we were going up to
823
01:16:58,110 --> 01:16:59,790
his house and there was just like this magic
824
01:17:00,790 --> 01:17:06,790
I�m at the University of Illinois and I�m
an English major I�m I�m studying to to
825
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:11,830
get an English degree, not sure exactly what
I�m going to do with it, literature maybe,
826
01:17:11,830 --> 01:17:14,870
you know writing for newspapers or magazines
or something like that
827
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:18,620
But I didn�t want to do literature; I didn�t
want to write for magazines
828
01:17:18,620 --> 01:17:22,660
I wanted to write books; I wanted to do my
own my own creation
829
01:17:22,660 --> 01:17:27,170
But I was afraid of being a starving artist
and then I was going to go out into the real
830
01:17:27,170 --> 01:17:33,890
world and be unable to be really successful
and and have a you know have a great income
831
01:17:33,890 --> 01:17:37,350
and so on
All the things I�d been taught that I really
832
01:17:37,350 --> 01:17:43,760
wanted which turned out to be not true but
I was scared to go out and and get out into
833
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:50,300
the real world with an English degree
And I had this amazing fateful afternoon that
834
01:17:50,300 --> 01:17:55,150
I�m sitting in the computer lab and I�m
about to graduate and I�m worried what am
835
01:17:55,150 --> 01:17:59,190
I going to do out there in the real world
with an English language degree?
836
01:17:59,190 --> 01:18:02,740
And I�m sitting there in the computer lab
worrying what am I going to do? What am I
837
01:18:02,740 --> 01:18:06,460
going to do?
And then I take a break from my worrying to
838
01:18:06,460 --> 01:18:10,110
play some computer, some of my computer game;
the Star Trek game that I played
839
01:18:10,110 --> 01:18:13,610
And I play the game for a while, then I�d
stop and worry what am I going to do with
840
01:18:13,610 --> 01:18:17,120
my life? What am I going to do with my life?
Then I�d play the game and I�d worry what
841
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:22,500
am I going to do with my life? And finally
hey I know: I could do this stuff
842
01:18:22,500 --> 01:18:29,310
And, and realised all of instant in one afternoon
that that really my calling was to go off
843
01:18:29,310 --> 01:18:31,350
and and to do software engineering
844
01:18:32,350 --> 01:18:39,770
In roughly December of 1982 Dave Morris convinced
me that I should you know come work with him
845
01:18:39,770 --> 01:18:46,380
at at initial Amiga actually it was still
Hi-Toro at the time; it was named Amiga I
846
01:18:46,380 --> 01:18:52,060
think a few months after I got there
When I got there I was the first technical
847
01:18:52,060 --> 01:18:58,180
employee of any kind there
Dave had eight other marketing and sales people
848
01:18:58,180 --> 01:19:02,610
working on the game controller and other things
to prep the channel
849
01:19:02,610 --> 01:19:07,730
Jay Miner officially couldn�t be there because
part of the deal was that he would stay at
850
01:19:07,730 --> 01:19:15,060
ZyMOS and finish the pacemaker
So I arrived there by myself and then later
851
01:19:15,060 --> 01:19:21,520
on Jay and Joe Decuir would stop by
And the team of the three of us were given
852
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:27,870
a room with three very large wall-sized white
boards to come up with a product
853
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:34,410
Not only was working at Williams Electronics
an amazing experience because it gave me this
854
01:19:34,410 --> 01:19:39,580
opportunity to really express myself as a
computer scientist but also as an artist
855
01:19:39,580 --> 01:19:44,710
I�m a storyteller; I love creating music;
I love creating graphics and special effects
856
01:19:44,710 --> 01:19:49,640
and it was a job that allowed me to tie all
of that together and do something
857
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:56,180
But even better than that I met a fellow there
that got connected shortly after that with
858
01:19:56,180 --> 01:19:59,720
this new company out in California called
Amiga Computer
859
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:06,120
Dave Morris basically told us what the channel
was and what he wanted to put in the channel
860
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:09,350
and we were given a pretty much a clean slate
to do it
861
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:15,810
He wanted something that could produce animation
more like the cartoons kids saw on TV
862
01:20:15,810 --> 01:20:23,270
And so we started on the whiteboard just drawing
boxes and one of us would throw up an idea
863
01:20:23,270 --> 01:20:26,260
and you know Jay would shake his head and
say �no feasible�
864
01:20:26,260 --> 01:20:32,750
Of course the forth person in the room was
Mitchy Jay�s dog who would actually sit
865
01:20:32,750 --> 01:20:36,850
there watching
You know the stories are that we would look
866
01:20:36,850 --> 01:20:41,890
at Mitchy and Mitchy would either nod or fall
asleep and we would use that as a cue to the design
867
01:20:43,890 --> 01:20:47,220
And the original Amiga that I saw in the block
diagram had game controller ports as part
868
01:20:47,220 --> 01:20:50,620
of its design
And, and all of that it checked out as, as
869
01:20:50,620 --> 01:20:55,350
a proper game system but it also had these
extra capabilities
870
01:20:55,350 --> 01:21:01,190
And it was that more than anything else that
inspired me to join the company because the
871
01:21:01,190 --> 01:21:08,060
games stuff was interesting to me and to create
a game platform I probably would have said
872
01:21:08,060 --> 01:21:09,510
yes if it was just that
873
01:21:10,510 --> 01:21:18,160
The Amiga is sort of the child of Commodore
and Apple and Atari
874
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:23,050
Jay and Joe Decuir had worked on Atari and
of course they knew about the sprite engines
875
01:21:23,050 --> 01:21:29,350
that were in the Atari VCS
The chips they had worked with were the 6502,
876
01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:34,810
which had come from Commodore of course; Chuck
Peddle�s chip and then I had worked at Apple
877
01:21:34,810 --> 01:21:40,120
and learned the tricks that Woz and Burrell
Smith used in the Apple 2 and the Mackintosh
878
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:45,990
and of course the work that Lisa had reinvented
from the Xerox Alto
879
01:21:45,990 --> 01:21:53,070
So we sort of combined ideas from that whole
ecosystem of computers that had come before
880
01:21:53,070 --> 01:21:57,660
And I think that was one of the reasons the
Amiga turned out so well, the cross-pollination
881
01:21:57,660 --> 01:22:02,110
of ideas from multiple predecessor designs
882
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:09,970
What I saw more than anything else was the
the quality, the strength of the people that
883
01:22:09,970 --> 01:22:16,000
were putting together the company
And, and yes the engineering staff was superb
884
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:22,440
and I was easily convinced by people like
Dale and and Dale Luck and Ron Nicholson and
885
01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:27,930
of course Jay Miner
But the but the business people really believed
886
01:22:27,930 --> 01:22:35,040
and and were extremely well experienced and
had the right know how and and the right enthusiasm
887
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:42,700
to be able to make the thing happen and so
I said yes to joining Amiga Computer
888
01:22:43,700 --> 01:22:46,140
I am the chairman of the Dutch Commodore User
Group
889
01:22:46,140 --> 01:22:53,160
Our club is more than 35 years old and still
alive and kicking
890
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,400
I like to collect old computers mainly Commodores
891
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:05,210
We have almost four hundred members
Our club meetings are visited by I think so
892
01:23:05,210 --> 01:23:13,350
about fifty to till hundred visitors every
time and six times a year we are here in Maarssen
893
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:19,310
in the Netherlands
It�s a very nice place to be because we
894
01:23:19,310 --> 01:23:21,660
have a lot to do with innovation
895
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:33,140
Somehow Dave Needle got introduced to us as
a consultant who possibly could help with
896
01:23:33,140 --> 01:23:38,960
some of the general hardware design, logic
design and chip design
897
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:43,530
He came to interview actually they didn�t
like him at the first interview and sent him
898
01:23:43,530 --> 01:23:47,300
away
He sort of begged his way back in basically
899
01:23:47,300 --> 01:23:52,480
because he had seen the whiteboard and decided
that whiteboard was better than anything else
900
01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:53,810
that he�d seen to work on
901
01:23:54,810 --> 01:23:59,640
When I joined Amiga I originally joined with
the graphics staff, there�s a fellow named
902
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:06,850
Dale Luck who was in charge of the graphics
development for the Amiga and I joined to
903
01:24:06,850 --> 01:24:10,890
work for him and to work on graphics and it
worked out well
904
01:24:10,890 --> 01:24:18,970
But as time went on and as the company continued
to grow and to develop I ended up taking on
905
01:24:18,970 --> 01:24:24,450
more and more responsibilities for running
the team with, with my boss at the time
906
01:24:25,450 --> 01:24:29,320
The technology these days is to put billions
of transistors on a chip, few decades ago
907
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:33,960
it was millions
Back when we were designing the Amiga putting
908
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:38,870
several thousand transistors on a chip was
a very difficult task
909
01:24:38,870 --> 01:24:43,460
In retrospect we were trying to do a project
that was nearly impossible for the team size
910
01:24:43,460 --> 01:24:44,460
that we had
911
01:24:45,460 --> 01:24:49,680
All computers at that point were switching
to being user interface oriented
912
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:55,550
It was, it was no longer good enough to have
a computer where the user had to type cryptic
913
01:24:55,550 --> 01:25:01,560
text into a text window and command the computer
to do things by knowing the right instructions
914
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:06,280
to give
The new world was one where it was a graphical
915
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:13,510
user interface and you interacted with it
with you hands and and it was a much more
916
01:25:13,510 --> 01:25:19,020
rich and enriching sort of environment that
needed to be created and the Amiga had everything
917
01:25:19,020 --> 01:25:23,900
except that, the Amiga did not have a graphical
user interface capability
918
01:25:23,900 --> 01:25:29,230
And so at that point in my career I quit being
the director of software engineering for the
919
01:25:29,230 --> 01:25:36,050
Amiga Computers Company and instead I went
back to work being an engineer and and I spent
920
01:25:36,050 --> 01:25:42,700
about seven months developing the user interface
for the Amiga that I called intuition
921
01:25:43,700 --> 01:25:47,910
We�d have these big wall sized pieces of
plastic that were essentially the layout for
922
01:25:47,910 --> 01:25:55,240
the chip and we were trying to put several
tens of thousands of transistors down by hand
923
01:25:55,240 --> 01:26:00,120
and get it correct
An engineer nowadays would say without design
924
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:05,730
tools that is impossible; you will never succeed;
it will never work
925
01:26:05,730 --> 01:26:12,040
So if you believe them the Amiga chipset is
an impossibility that we managed to successfully create
926
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:16,120
Now we also had to do this in a reasonable
927
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:21,560
amount of time, several thousand transistors;
a start-up company has a certain amount of funds
928
01:26:23,660 --> 01:26:32,000
It all came down to the trade shows and in
particular the CES The Consumer Electronics Show
929
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,560
where it was make or break time for Amiga
We had all these other interesting little
930
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:40,970
novelties going but the truth was that we
either delivered or we were going to run out
931
01:26:40,970 --> 01:26:45,460
of money
The money that we had going was good seed
932
01:26:45,460 --> 01:26:49,230
money that would get us to the point that
we had something working but we had to go
933
01:26:49,230 --> 01:26:54,890
further, we had to find additional investors
and turn it into a real system
934
01:26:54,890 --> 01:26:59,910
And the way to get additional investors was
to show people that what we had thought we
935
01:26:59,910 --> 01:27:04,610
could get working was actually working
And the place to do that was at CES, at the
936
01:27:04,610 --> 01:27:09,370
trade show
And so it, it became one of those deadlines
937
01:27:09,370 --> 01:27:13,680
for us
The CES was all-important; that that it became
938
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:18,310
make or break for us
That we knew that the investors, that the
939
01:27:18,310 --> 01:27:23,730
companies that would be interested in this
And would show enough interest and it would
940
01:27:23,730 --> 01:27:27,730
inspire the investors to give us the money
that we needed; that we had to have a good
941
01:27:27,730 --> 01:27:33,410
showing at CES
And at the same time the company really was
942
01:27:33,410 --> 01:27:37,710
starting to run out of money, seriously starting
to run out of money
943
01:27:37,710 --> 01:27:43,310
And I had already started to become part of
more of the executive half of the company
944
01:27:43,310 --> 01:27:49,680
at that point, so I was privy to a lot of
the conversations they were having about how
945
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:53,670
desperate thing really were and how tight
money was becoming
946
01:27:53,670 --> 01:27:57,770
But in general this wasn�t being discussed
with the employees because we didn�t want
947
01:27:57,770 --> 01:28:03,430
people to feel panicky and nervous and and
not work as well as they might or start looking
948
01:28:03,430 --> 01:28:05,850
for other jobs or something like that if they
thought the company was going to fail
949
01:28:05,850 --> 01:28:12,230
And so they kept it low-key, they didn't talk
a lot about how important these trade shows
950
01:28:12,230 --> 01:28:19,190
were but we all sort of knew
And and and and I wasn't all that comfortable
951
01:28:19,190 --> 01:28:25,380
with keeping stuff from the employees and
so I kind of told a lot of people some of
952
01:28:25,380 --> 01:28:28,960
to some extent what we're up against and why
we needed to deliver
953
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:35,250
Dave Morris had a trade show he went to target
and so we rushed ahead with the design
954
01:28:36,250 --> 01:28:40,980
And as we were coming up to one of the early
trade shows and and we were both realising
955
01:28:40,980 --> 01:28:46,210
how how desperate everything was and that
we really needed to get our best foot forward
956
01:28:46,210 --> 01:28:51,680
But also that we were so close and with just
a little extra work there were so many cool
957
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,060
things we could show then we ended up just
working all night long
958
01:28:55,060 --> 01:28:59,690
We often worked all night long and and Dale
and I got into this thing where we would start
959
01:28:59,690 --> 01:29:05,150
playing rock music real loud in the middle
of the night to help keep ourselves awake
960
01:29:05,150 --> 01:29:10,140
And when you had to do something like cue
up a five-minute compile instead of sitting
961
01:29:10,140 --> 01:29:15,110
there and potentially falling asleep you would
stand up and dance
962
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:20,090
And the two of us would take turns standing
up and dancing three, four, five o'clock in
963
01:29:20,090 --> 01:29:26,240
the morning in the software lab to keep ourselves
awake while we did our work And the Led Zeppelin
964
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:32,170
was blaring loud and we're dancing
And finally the day came that that we lost
965
01:29:32,170 --> 01:29:37,780
track of time and our co-workers start showing
up to the office and and there's this loud
966
01:29:37,780 --> 01:29:41,670
music blaring out of the software lab
And they go back there to look to see what's
967
01:29:41,670 --> 01:29:48,150
going on and there's Dale and me dancing and
dancing
968
01:29:48,150 --> 01:29:53,750
We got the reputation then for being the dancing
fools that's where we got that nickname Dale
969
01:29:53,750 --> 01:30:00,960
and I we were known as the dancing fools
at Amiga because of that
970
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:08,490
What we did at Amiga was unprecedented they
the strange hardware rig that we put together
971
01:30:08,490 --> 01:30:12,380
to create the effect of the Amiga computer
972
01:30:13,380 --> 01:30:18,610
We got lots of little parts that were individual
NAND gates and registers wire wrapped them
973
01:30:18,610 --> 01:30:25,400
together and try to get them running in order
to find out if the logic circuits that we
974
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:28,260
had drawn in paper actually work
975
01:30:28,380 --> 01:30:30,420
Something as simple as an electrostatic shock
976
01:30:30,580 --> 01:30:35,320
would wipe them out
And so they had them set up on this workbench
977
01:30:35,330 --> 01:30:42,630
in the software lab but they put chairs that
forced you before you could approach the chips
978
01:30:42,630 --> 01:30:49,610
to walk along a certain corridor where you
would step on the this electrostatic pad that
979
01:30:49,610 --> 01:30:54,310
we had on the ground that would take electro
static electricity away from you so that you
980
01:30:54,310 --> 01:30:57,790
wouldn't zap the chips
And anyone that got anywhere near the chips
981
01:30:57,790 --> 01:31:03,270
had to step over this pad to get to the chip
So we had this little corridor like a like
982
01:31:03,270 --> 01:31:07,570
an aisle down the centre of a church going
to the chips at the end
983
01:31:07,570 --> 01:31:12,350
And even better than that these chips the
output of the chips we needed to make available
984
01:31:12,350 --> 01:31:15,360
to everyone that was in the software lab where
we were
985
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:19,310
And so we had these massive cables that were
the the graphics and audio output of these
986
01:31:19,310 --> 01:31:25,800
chips and we ran them up into the air and
then they draped across where the the electrostatic
987
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:30,330
pad was and went off to the rest of the the
software lab
988
01:31:30,330 --> 01:31:35,480
But where they draped across the walkway it
kind of they draped down because it was loose
989
01:31:35,480 --> 01:31:38,480
and it was made you kind of stoop a little
bit
990
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:45,690
And so as you would approach these Amiga stacks
that were one day would be the Amiga computer
991
01:31:45,690 --> 01:31:52,160
you were obliged to walk down this one corridor
and just as you got up to the stacks you had
992
01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:56,340
to bow
You had to bow your head in order to get under
993
01:31:56,340 --> 01:32:02,120
the wires and it was like this this religious
experience that you would go through to approach
994
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:05,580
the hardware
And little did we know at the time that it
995
01:32:05,580 --> 01:32:10,570
was in fact quite a religious experience that
we were creating not only for ourselves but
996
01:32:10,570 --> 01:32:12,750
for millions of people out there in the real
world
997
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:20,750
My part in that was I actually hand wired
the original two motherboards for the Amiga
998
01:32:20,750 --> 01:32:27,400
I did get one working and that was the one
they use primarily to test the first set of
999
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:32,540
breadboard emulators for the chipset and that
was the one that we took down to one of the
1000
01:32:32,540 --> 01:32:37,540
major trade shows the Consumer Electronics
Show in Las Vegas
1001
01:32:38,630 --> 01:32:44,570
Everyone in the company worked their their
hearts out to get us to these trade shows
1002
01:32:44,570 --> 01:32:51,220
and to have not just the technology but the
best marketing presentation we could make
1003
01:32:51,220 --> 01:32:57,100
And oh the geniuses were there, the booth
we put together for CES was just remarkable
1004
01:32:57,100 --> 01:33:02,650
it was an amazing thing that had enough goodness
on the outside to inspire everyone
1005
01:33:02,650 --> 01:33:08,090
But if you were lucky enough to get an invitation
into the inner sanctum of where the actual
1006
01:33:08,090 --> 01:33:14,900
Amiga demo was going on then you were in for
a real treat because man that Amiga demo was
1007
01:33:14,900 --> 01:33:15,900
so cool
1008
01:33:16,900 --> 01:33:22,500
A lot of people who who saw the demo thought
that we must have a fairly large mini computer
1009
01:33:22,500 --> 01:33:28,380
or IBM mainframe in the next room emulating
the output they saw because they said you
1010
01:33:28,380 --> 01:33:32,280
can't do this and anything that would you
know fit inside a personal computer
1011
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:37,570
Our sales and marketing team at at Amiga were
just overjoyed with the
1012
01:33:37,570 --> 01:33:41,880
success that we had and they decided they're
going to take us out and give us this amazing
1013
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:47,130
dinner for for to celebrate the the fact that
we have had such an awesome first day at the
1014
01:33:47,130 --> 01:33:51,980
Consumer Electronics Show
And we did we eat a lot of spaghetti and drink
1015
01:33:51,980 --> 01:33:56,240
a lot of Chianti I suppose
But then after that Dale and I were talking
1016
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:59,940
on our way back from the dinner and we realised
there was still so much more we could do
1017
01:33:59,940 --> 01:34:04,440
And that if the first day was a success the
second day could be even better if only we
1018
01:34:04,440 --> 01:34:07,690
worked a little bit harder
And so the two of us instead of going back
1019
01:34:07,690 --> 01:34:12,820
to our hotel rooms we went back to the CES
tradeshow and we talked the guards into letting
1020
01:34:12,820 --> 01:34:16,660
us get back into the booth
And the two of us sat down in that booth and
1021
01:34:16,660 --> 01:34:22,530
we stayed up all night long drinking warm
beer and working on the demos to make the
1022
01:34:22,530 --> 01:34:26,920
demos better so that on day two not only were
they great but there are even a little bit
1023
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:30,610
greater than great
I mean added just a little bit more extra
1024
01:34:30,610 --> 01:34:35,010
pizzazz and wonder wonderment to them
1025
01:34:36,010 --> 01:34:43,310
Towards the end of the chips being fabricated
I think we actually got the chips back and
1026
01:34:43,310 --> 01:34:51,710
they all worked
Money was not available any more
1027
01:34:51,710 --> 01:34:56,630
Stories that later came out that both Dave
Morris and Jay miner took out mortgages in
1028
01:34:56,630 --> 01:34:59,920
there on their house I had only heard that
later
1029
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:08,500
I was actually still working on 64 and plus/4
things and I was working with various companies
1030
01:35:08,500 --> 01:35:16,380
like Infocomm to help them port their stuff
to the C64 and the plus/4 and that they all
1031
01:35:16,380 --> 01:35:21,440
they all seemed to have a secret project going
with some unnamed computer company
1032
01:35:21,440 --> 01:35:27,070
Who you know the locked room type stuff and
while I was there hanging out with them there
1033
01:35:27,070 --> 01:35:29,280
were things that they would not talk about
1034
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:37,560
Atari was in the process of losing two million
dollars a working day
1035
01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:45,710
And they I don't know how contacted dad somewhere
in the in his trip; I think he was in Singapore
1036
01:35:45,710 --> 01:35:50,730
or something like that
And said �please come to New York we want
1037
01:35:50,730 --> 01:35:55,280
to talk to you about buying Atari�
And Sam said �we just bought Atari come
1038
01:35:55,280 --> 01:36:04,480
home, come home now�
And that was an interesting transition; graduate
1039
01:36:04,480 --> 01:36:10,300
student in physics; honeymooner; vice president
of software for a fortune 500 company
1040
01:36:11,300 --> 01:36:19,080
I hate to say it but I've never pulled this
punch before the way that Atari did business
1041
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:25,370
back then was miserable
I never abided by that way of thinking about
1042
01:36:25,370 --> 01:36:31,220
business
That way of cutthroat making money and and
1043
01:36:31,220 --> 01:36:37,180
throw people to the side, nothing matters
more than being successful at making money
1044
01:36:37,180 --> 01:36:45,910
I hated that
But they originally gave Amiga Computer money
1045
01:36:45,910 --> 01:36:53,040
as a cheque
It was not a great deal but it was an okay
1046
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:57,770
deal and we were facing doom
Everyone was finally resigning themselves
1047
01:36:57,770 --> 01:37:02,790
to the fate that Atari was going to get it
our baby from us and then that we would all
1048
01:37:02,790 --> 01:37:09,110
be out of jobs and that that this thing that
we have dreamed of for all of those years
1049
01:37:09,110 --> 01:37:15,050
was was failing
And at the last moment when it seemed that
1050
01:37:15,050 --> 01:37:20,690
there was no hope left suddenly out of the
blue came Commodore to the rescue
1051
01:37:20,690 --> 01:37:26,610
And and Commodore found out what Atari was
offering us for the company and and Commodore
1052
01:37:26,610 --> 01:37:30,430
said �oh we can do much better than that�
they said
1053
01:37:30,430 --> 01:37:35,960
And they proposed a very nice rich dollar
amount for the company that sounded great
1054
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:39,580
to all of us
It was this awesome moment of negotiation
1055
01:37:39,580 --> 01:37:45,610
where they they offered us you know I think
it was four four dollars or four and a quarter
1056
01:37:45,610 --> 01:37:47,410
or something I don�t remember the exact
number now
1057
01:37:47,410 --> 01:37:53,350
But they Dave Morris our fearless leader turned
to all of us and said �you know okay well
1058
01:37:53,350 --> 01:37:58,370
here's the offer do you accept it's better
than zero, it's better than Atari� and everyone
1059
01:37:58,370 --> 01:38:02,400
that reported to him said �yes sounds good
accept this deal�
1060
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:07,070
And then he turned back to Commodore and said,
�no not quite enough we're going to have
1061
01:38:07,070 --> 01:38:12,920
to pass on your offer�
And it�s like �Oh my goodness�
1062
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:20,980
To have the courage to be to have a gun pointed
to your head like that and still say no to
1063
01:38:20,980 --> 01:38:24,400
the best offer you'd heard so far
But they offered him I think it was originally
1064
01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:28,150
four and they offered him four and a quarter
or something like that he said �okay�
1065
01:38:28,150 --> 01:38:33,870
and we and and the rest was history Commodore
bought the company and and and Atari�s attempt
1066
01:38:33,870 --> 01:38:40,550
to get their hands on the technology was foiled
and and and Dave Morris returned the cheque
1067
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:45,620
to Atari
I've heard recently that Atari still has that cheque
1068
01:38:46,620 --> 01:38:55,940
[laughs] I would like the cheque but even
1069
01:38:55,940 --> 01:39:01,580
just a photocopy would be lovely [laughs]
1070
01:39:02,590 --> 01:39:08,800
So I guess we have from we have Amiga Corporation�s
account number on the back there
1071
01:39:08,790 --> 01:39:20,080
So yeah half a million dollars March 7th 1984
to Amiga from Atari
1072
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:25,740
I discovered that it was the Amiga and Commodore had just bought them
1073
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:32,700
Folk at Atari; oh and this is presumption
I don't they didn't certainly didn't tell me
1074
01:39:32,700 --> 01:39:37,570
thought alright we'll fund these guys
and they'll make a nice machine except they�re
1075
01:39:37,570 --> 01:39:42,460
not be going to able to pay back
So if they don't pay us within six months
1076
01:39:42,460 --> 01:39:44,710
we own the technology
1077
01:39:45,710 --> 01:39:52,080
And Commodore infused our company with cash
and suddenly overnight we were productive
1078
01:39:52,090 --> 01:39:56,330
citizens
We had powerful, big computers that we could use
1079
01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:59,330
And we had mag tape drives built into the
1080
01:39:59,340 --> 01:40:02,370
computer so we could back up our work on a
nightly basis
1081
01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:08,000
And all this like miracle stuff happened that
made us more productive
1082
01:40:09,340 --> 01:40:16,070
Right after the purchase happened within less
than a month my group was actually sent out
1083
01:40:16,060 --> 01:40:23,580
to California to work with the Amiga guys
to get it ready for launch
1084
01:40:23,580 --> 01:40:31,170
We were doing things like printer drivers,
device drivers, application software, just
1085
01:40:31,170 --> 01:40:35,110
generally filling in where they were they
were light on people
1086
01:40:36,110 --> 01:40:40,730
They themselves embrace the Amiga as the next
generation that that Commodore needed to go in
1087
01:40:40,730 --> 01:40:43,190
And so was this match made in heaven where
1088
01:40:43,190 --> 01:40:48,250
�oh it was great, the business was great,
the hardware was great, our development environments
1089
01:40:48,250 --> 01:40:49,250
became great
1090
01:40:50,250 --> 01:40:58,990
You had the development team in Los Gatos
who had created a product that they thought
1091
01:40:58,990 --> 01:41:02,650
would be a game machine
They could not produce it the price that it
1092
01:41:02,650 --> 01:41:10,230
would take to compete in the games market
And Commodore acquired the company because
1093
01:41:10,230 --> 01:41:16,360
they needed to move quickly into the next
generation of computers and you had all these
1094
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:19,410
sales and marketing people on the East Coast
with totally different ideas
1095
01:41:19,410 --> 01:41:21,480
And it was quite a bit of friction
1096
01:41:22,480 --> 01:41:30,650
Amiga in California had this amazing technology
that just needed to have a little bit of the
1097
01:41:30,650 --> 01:41:37,360
low cost computer from Commodore and the high
tech technology from Amiga and put that together
1098
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:40,440
to really come up with an amazing combination
1099
01:41:41,440 --> 01:41:46,000
Everybody in Los Gatos got to go to the launch
as a reward
1100
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:54,150
We had this last-minute substitution of Graphicraft
Graphicraft Hat was a very early edition had
1101
01:41:54,150 --> 01:41:59,750
some bugs and one of the bugs that still wasn�t
being tracked down was the flood fill
1102
01:41:59,750 --> 01:42:03,900
You could start a flood fill and it would
flood; you can fill the screen and then keep
1103
01:42:03,900 --> 01:42:08,150
going and fill the whole of the memory and
so it crashed the computer
1104
01:42:08,150 --> 01:42:14,040
And so you know during the demo was during
the training when Pariseau trained Andy Warhol
1105
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:18,630
don't don't do the flood fill
And naturally during the demo, the live demo
1106
01:42:18,630 --> 01:42:23,630
he does the flood fill
And the rows of engineers we were all sitting
1107
01:42:23,630 --> 01:42:30,040
together you know we're right we were �oh
no� because we we knew this couldn't work
1108
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:35,660
but somehow it did
It did not crash the machine and that's just
1109
01:42:35,660 --> 01:42:36,830
one of those miracles that happen
1110
01:42:43,460 --> 01:42:53,440
My first job was to make the PAL version of
the Amiga 1000 and so I had to I was the token
1111
01:42:53,440 --> 01:43:00,210
guy from Commodore in Westchester, Pennsylvania
They had to go talk to all the guys in Los
1112
01:43:00,210 --> 01:43:08,150
Gatos and say alright we got to make a PAL
video output from this computer because the
1113
01:43:08,150 --> 01:43:09,900
first Amiga was only NTSC
1114
01:43:10,900 --> 01:43:14,280
But revolutionary at the time was its multitasking
of the whole
1115
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:19,830
A lot of the internal concepts, libraries,
devices and so on were just much more advanced
1116
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:22,620
than most home computers had at that time
1117
01:43:23,610 --> 01:43:31,400
I'd heard about the the Amiga coming out and
I was like you've got the Developer Docs and
1118
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:33,770
a photocopier I have to have them
1119
01:43:33,770 --> 01:43:39,170
The 128 was it was launched that summer and
then Amiga in the fall but I wanted to find
1120
01:43:39,170 --> 01:43:41,650
out about it
And you there were these green books you could
1121
01:43:41,650 --> 01:43:45,820
sign out you had to put your name on them
And yet they were had serial numbers and everything
1122
01:43:45,820 --> 01:43:47,940
because they didn't want this information
getting out
1123
01:43:47,940 --> 01:43:53,940
And Bil Herd got one and I think the the night
or maybe the night after Bil Herd got his
1124
01:43:53,940 --> 01:43:56,680
I stayed late and photocopied the whole thing
so I could learn it
1125
01:43:59,780 --> 01:44:07,260
[Music]
1126
01:44:36,100 --> 01:44:37,180
Keep it going
1127
01:44:37,860 --> 01:44:39,580
This is awesome
1128
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:46,180
Right, oh my god
1129
01:44:51,420 --> 01:44:53,420
Look at that
1130
01:45:02,700 --> 01:45:08,480
The waterfall right there in the corner
We live we have a little house in the town
1131
01:45:08,480 --> 01:45:10,100
This is not ready to be lived in yet
1132
01:45:10,220 --> 01:45:12,520
I see what you�re saying, Okay
1133
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:17,920
So I did everything you see, every single
surface
1134
01:45:19,940 --> 01:45:24,900
Elevator goes down all three floors, if I
ever build the thing
1135
01:45:30,940 --> 01:45:34,480
Deal with the plans they said just you know
it it's too complicated so I said
1136
01:45:34,480 --> 01:45:36,540
okay I'll build a model and you can go by
that so I did
1137
01:45:36,820 --> 01:45:42,160
I built a model of whole thing and they took
the measurements during the quarter inch equals a foot
1138
01:45:42,160 --> 01:45:44,000
Everything in the model is actually to scale
1139
01:45:44,100 --> 01:45:48,940
and then I had it there in the house and a
bear got in before I had this door and destroyed it
1140
01:45:49,080 --> 01:45:50,820
So this was a bear that did that
1141
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:52,480
He didn�t like the design, I don�t know
1142
01:45:52,620 --> 01:45:54,880
Yes but I did �Defender of the Crown�
on this, sitting in there
1143
01:45:55,820 --> 01:45:59,360
We made cedar boxes there either side of
the screen
1144
01:46:01,540 --> 01:46:08,140
And cold, so it heats and air conditions and
then it flows down into the lot with underground
1145
01:46:08,200 --> 01:46:11,100
five feet down where it�s always fifty-five
degrees
1146
01:46:11,540 --> 01:46:14,780
So heat and cool just for the price of the
electricity
1147
01:46:20,380 --> 01:46:27,610
So I flew to Commodore headquarters in Westchester,
Pennsylvania and grabbed one of the executives
1148
01:46:27,610 --> 01:46:33,490
and and I had a copy of my Saucer Tag game
which looked pretty pretty professional you
1149
01:46:33,490 --> 01:46:37,270
know I'd nice packaging and stuff
On the basis of that they gave me a developer
1150
01:46:37,270 --> 01:46:41,620
status on the Amiga
I still had to buy one, they didn't give me
1151
01:46:41,620 --> 01:46:47,400
an Amiga but they gave me all of the tools
that RJ and all the Dale Luck and everybody
1152
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:51,940
had written in order to allow people to program
on the Amiga
1153
01:46:51,940 --> 01:46:58,800
And went home and and immediately started
doing graphics that neither I or anybody else
1154
01:46:58,800 --> 01:46:59,800
had ever seen before
1155
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:04,910
I saw �Defender of the Crown�
it was as I remember it a full-colour spread
1156
01:47:04,910 --> 01:47:10,330
of the castle scene with a catapult of Defender
of the Crown and it blew my socks off
1157
01:47:10,340 --> 01:47:17,780
It was a complete game changer to see something
so beautiful, so artistic and almost photographic
1158
01:47:17,770 --> 01:47:24,160
from a computer was something that I had never
seen before
1159
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:27,300
My mind was made up then I obviously needed
an Amiga
1160
01:47:28,300 --> 01:47:35,120
Defender of the Crown was was the scenario
was written by Kellyn Beck and he was he approached
1161
01:47:35,120 --> 01:47:41,330
Bob Jacob who was a producer at the time with
the idea of doing one of the first Amiga games
1162
01:47:41,340 --> 01:47:45,380
as a cinematic game based on the movie Ivanhoe
1163
01:47:46,370 --> 01:47:52,870
At that launch of the Amiga 1000 in Europe
was pretty amazing and that really started
1164
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:57,270
it all
And because of those relationships I had both
1165
01:47:57,270 --> 01:48:04,360
with the factories and the vendors in the
Far East, the engineers in Westchester, Pennsylvania,
1166
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:09,680
the engineers in Los Gatos, California and
all the customers for the Amiga in Europe
1167
01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:18,830
That's what brought me to the alignment of
the planets that got the Amiga 500 to say
1168
01:48:18,830 --> 01:48:24,180
�okay let me see if I can get this to a
point where we can dramatically make a difference
1169
01:48:24,180 --> 01:48:29,740
in terms of the cost of this product and make
it available to a lot more people�
1170
01:48:36,100 --> 01:48:41,420
Now I couldn't afford an Amiga 1000 but fortunately
Commodore did then a wonderful thing they
1171
01:48:41,440 --> 01:48:49,640
introduced the Amiga 500; which allowed my
mum to buy me one in 1987 I think it was
1172
01:48:49,720 --> 01:48:53,940
And what a wonderful machine the Amiga 500
was it brought the power of the Amiga to the masses
1173
01:48:53,980 --> 01:48:58,100
It really did create a software market;
1174
01:48:58,100 --> 01:49:04,120
a hardware market and brought wonderful technology
to the average person
1175
01:49:04,740 --> 01:49:11,880
Batman of course set the set the whole barometer
because it was a movie that was anticipated
1176
01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:18,080
probably like never before and probably never
since as that as that one particularly was
1177
01:49:18,090 --> 01:49:24,840
And I've got the most amazing respect for
ocean software having the guts to go along
1178
01:49:24,840 --> 01:49:30,560
with that idea but that's where that's where
the I mean the whole idea the concept is correct
1179
01:49:30,550 --> 01:49:34,000
something which is bigger than the sum of
the parts
1180
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:40,330
And and we specifically had the Amiga as a
very small �oh by the way there's an Amiga
1181
01:49:40,330 --> 01:49:43,950
in the Box�
It wasn't about selling; if you remember I
1182
01:49:43,950 --> 01:49:48,970
came up with a concept �from now on we don't
sell computers we sell dreams� and that's
1183
01:49:48,970 --> 01:49:51,560
what we did and everything we�d produce
was a dream
1184
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:58,060
We had Dale luck come to Westchester we had
Bart Whitebook come to Westchester so you
1185
01:49:58,060 --> 01:50:02,760
know we didn't want to lose the software guys
but unfortunately couldn�t help it
1186
01:50:02,780 --> 01:50:05,200
some people moved on
1187
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:09,980
There�s a lot more to do on the on the Amiga
2000 because nothing had been done really
1188
01:50:09,980 --> 01:50:13,180
the the 500 I think at that point was pretty
close to finished
1189
01:50:13,780 --> 01:50:19,660
The lightning storm in Texas; the Lightning
came through the phone line and zapped my
1190
01:50:19,660 --> 01:50:24,300
128D
Fortunately I had insurance so with the the
1191
01:50:24,300 --> 01:50:28,370
insurance money I purchased my first Amiga,
it was Amiga 2000
1192
01:50:28,370 --> 01:50:32,990
So you could see my progression to Amiga was
actually an act of God or at least that's
1193
01:50:32,990 --> 01:50:34,340
what it said in the insurance policy
1194
01:50:35,020 --> 01:50:39,660
No they did the sidecar for the A1000 but
they wanted to they wanted to make an Amiga
1195
01:50:39,980 --> 01:50:45,800
that would just take a regular PC card and
use slots that were like IBM slots
1196
01:50:45,810 --> 01:50:50,680
So they came up with this idea of the Amiga
2000, which at that time was really just the
1197
01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:55,760
A1000 design with the expansion board from
the Zorro added on to it
1198
01:50:56,300 --> 01:51:01,160
At the same time that I was working on the
Amiga 500 there was a team in Braunschweig
1199
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:07,020
Germany building an Amiga 2000
Because really the 1000 was it was trying
1200
01:51:07,020 --> 01:51:11,460
to service two markets with one computer in
it it couldn't really do that too well
1201
01:51:11,460 --> 01:51:16,580
You know it's too expensive for the home and
not expandable enough for the for a serious
1202
01:51:16,590 --> 01:51:20,680
user
So you ended up with a 500 and 2000 and that
1203
01:51:20,670 --> 01:51:25,630
was really a pivotal step in the Amiga to
make that successful
1204
01:51:25,630 --> 01:51:31,810
So you had people like NewTek that made the
Video Toaster in the United States they could
1205
01:51:31,810 --> 01:51:36,020
do amazing things with a 2000 because now
they can plug a card in
1206
01:51:36,020 --> 01:51:44,900
And you had you know high school and college
kids that could afford to buy an Amiga and
1207
01:51:44,900 --> 01:51:48,180
get into programming or graphic design where
they couldn't do that before
1208
01:51:48,620 --> 01:51:56,880
I ended up getting getting a job at the Commodore
working for Andy Finkel initially
1209
01:51:56,880 --> 01:52:00,560
I had thought about cutting my hair before
that because I had long hair at the time
1210
01:52:00,570 --> 01:52:04,470
It's like you know �I think I'm just going
to go down and see if they accept me as I
1211
01:52:04,460 --> 01:52:09,820
am� and they did and so I I and Bryce Nesbitt
both started around the same time
1212
01:52:10,220 --> 01:52:16,720
When the 600 was introduced; by the way it
was supposed to be called the A300 because
1213
01:52:17,020 --> 01:52:22,810
it was supposed to cost less
And it turns out that the team of engineers
1214
01:52:22,820 --> 01:52:29,240
that they put on designing this cost reducing
the 600 couldn't out cost reduce Jeff�s
1215
01:52:29,230 --> 01:52:34,780
500 so they ended up having to call that a 600
because it actually cost more
1216
01:52:34,780 --> 01:52:40,850
So and they still went into production with
it but so now you've got two computers that
1217
01:52:40,850 --> 01:52:46,920
are pretty much pretty similar right and how
do you how do you market that
1218
01:52:46,920 --> 01:52:53,300
And so the Germans saw this and they said
�well why do we need a 600 when the 500
1219
01:52:53,300 --> 01:52:56,780
is cheaper and does at least as good a job?
1220
01:52:57,780 --> 01:53:05,140
When Mehdi made the decision that probably
put the final nail in the coffin of Commodore,
1221
01:53:05,140 --> 01:53:15,580
which was to launch the the 1200 with double
A but but not commit to enough chips to make
1222
01:53:15,590 --> 01:53:19,900
the entire production for Christmas be the
1200
1223
01:53:19,890 --> 01:53:27,520
Instead he built like 300,000 old chips at
five hundreds and most of which stayed in
1224
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:31,670
the warehouse because who wants to buy the
old machine when you can get the brand-new
1225
01:53:31,670 --> 01:53:35,420
machine with more colours and faster processor
and everything else
1226
01:53:36,420 --> 01:53:43,910
The 1200 wasn't actually available in volume
until like December and so you pretty much
1227
01:53:43,910 --> 01:53:52,400
missed the Christmas season
So if you introduced the 1200 in November
1228
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:56,900
and you only had a limited supply you're only
going to frustrate people at Christmastime
1229
01:53:56,900 --> 01:53:59,280
that they can't buy the computer that they
really want to buy
1230
01:53:59,860 --> 01:54:04,460
A lot of things that were going wrong at all
at the same time in those days and it was
1231
01:54:04,470 --> 01:54:09,390
pretty it was pretty obvious to us all
It's just you know you're technology people
1232
01:54:09,390 --> 01:54:13,960
and you've sort of gotten along thinking that
every problem is solved by technology and
1233
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:15,500
it's certainly not in that you know
1234
01:54:16,140 --> 01:54:24,480
The idea was that when we launched the CD32,
which was planned for the late spring early
1235
01:54:24,490 --> 01:54:30,200
summer of the following year they would have
had games that were written specifically for
1236
01:54:30,200 --> 01:54:36,400
CD32
And then he comes to me says �I want to
1237
01:54:36,400 --> 01:54:41,070
launch the CD32 for Christmas� and I fought
and fought and fought against it said �are
1238
01:54:41,070 --> 01:54:43,230
you mad?�
He said �what's wrong with you?
1239
01:54:43,230 --> 01:54:46,110
I said �first of all you're going to kill
the 1200�
1240
01:54:46,110 --> 01:54:48,630
�No don't be silly this is a completely
different product�
1241
01:54:48,630 --> 01:54:53,130
�You�re going to kill it� I said �but
not only that you're asking us to launch something
1242
01:54:53,130 --> 01:54:58,310
when there was no software written for it
and that is not good for us that wouldn't
1243
01:54:58,320 --> 01:55:04,590
that's crazy let's just keep it as we planned�
�I we need the money, we're in big financial
1244
01:55:04,580 --> 01:55:08,700
trouble, we need the extra sales�
And I kept saying to him �they're not going
1245
01:55:08,700 --> 01:55:14,620
to be extra sales; they may replace 1200 sales
but they're not going to be extra sales�
1246
01:55:14,620 --> 01:55:15,620
he wouldn't listen
1247
01:55:16,280 --> 01:55:21,720
So Commodore had this nasty habit of announcing
bad news after the close of business on Friday
1248
01:55:21,730 --> 01:55:25,800
And in you know and so they announced their
bankruptcy after the close of business on
1249
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:28,480
Friday while a good portion of us were at Mike Sinz�
1250
01:55:28,480 --> 01:55:32,420
wedding and did not know that
You got to Randell's house and they had a
1251
01:55:32,420 --> 01:55:36,060
news article taped on the door so everyone
who went in would notice that you know note
1252
01:55:36,070 --> 01:55:38,170
that comma had gone out of business the night
before
1253
01:55:38,860 --> 01:55:45,100
We got a copy of the of the announcement that
was made to the worldwide press that's how
1254
01:55:45,110 --> 01:55:48,760
significant we weren't
We just got a copy the same as everybody else
1255
01:55:48,760 --> 01:55:53,690
did �Commodore announces liquidation and
so on
1256
01:55:53,690 --> 01:55:58,380
And they hadn�t even got the guts to pick
up the phone and say �thanks for all your
1257
01:55:58,380 --> 01:56:03,680
help but you know it didn't work we you know
we're declaring bankruptcy�
1258
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:09,920
But there again you see I'm not surprised
about that I didn't have any regard for the
1259
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:16,070
management I said apart from I had a fair
fondness for Irving Gould but I had no regard
1260
01:56:16,070 --> 01:56:22,440
for for the management side of Commodore International
And so I'm not surprised at how they handled things
1261
01:56:23,400 --> 01:56:28,340
I left before the end I was lucky I got out
whilst there were still severance money; my
1262
01:56:29,380 --> 01:56:39,630
stock options still had some value and not
only that but I left and went without paying
1263
01:56:39,630 --> 01:56:44,370
admission to the Software Publicists Association
meeting
1264
01:56:44,370 --> 01:56:50,900
And I went into a multimedia conference and
I was sitting in the audience; having been
1265
01:56:50,900 --> 01:56:55,860
multimedia personality the year in the UK
a few years before
1266
01:56:55,860 --> 01:57:02,300
And there's this panel discussion and that
moderator at the end of the panel says �Gail,
1267
01:57:02,300 --> 01:57:08,170
we have the mother of multimedia application
sitting in the audience, Gail is there anything
1268
01:57:08,170 --> 01:57:18,220
you would like to say?� and I thought �oh�
So I took a deep breath did one of the hardest
1269
01:57:18,220 --> 01:57:25,360
things I've ever done in my life I stood up
and said �yes I'd like to say I'm looking
1270
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:28,900
for a job� and I got one
1271
01:57:29,320 --> 01:57:35,360
We were able to create a machine that was
low cost, so very powerful
1272
01:57:35,360 --> 01:57:41,910
Took the industry by storm for the longest
time was the video editing platform of the world
1273
01:57:41,910 --> 01:57:46,400
And that's what we wanted we wanted to create
1274
01:57:46,400 --> 01:57:51,240
a machine that anyone could use and that anyone
could afford; that anyone could understand
1275
01:57:51,240 --> 01:58:02,560
But it I didn't know that we would be as successful
as we were and how many millions of lives
1276
01:58:02,570 --> 01:58:07,470
we ended up touching with the thing that we
had created
1277
01:58:07,460 --> 01:58:16,760
And I often get emails from people who say
something like you know �hi just wanted
1278
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:22,390
to drop in and thank you for that Amiga computer
thing that you did; it would inspired me to
1279
01:58:22,390 --> 01:58:27,650
get a job in computer graphics or it inspired
me to get a job in commercial development
1280
01:58:27,650 --> 01:58:33,120
or game development
And I get these wonderful letters from people
1281
01:58:33,200 --> 01:58:38,200
that each and every one of them is like gold
to me
1282
01:58:38,260 --> 01:58:45,000
It's it validates what we believed from the
beginning that we could create a machine that
1283
01:58:45,000 --> 01:58:49,640
would open up people to new capabilities that
they they had
1284
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:56,330
And to reveal to themselves the sorts of things
they might be able to do with their lives
1285
01:58:56,340 --> 01:59:03,070
And and and we were so successful at that
I'm delighted to say I'm I'm proud to say
1286
01:59:03,060 --> 01:59:06,900
that that that part of our mission we were
able to accomplish
1287
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:10,860
I'm at Amiga 32 Germany and just bloody look
at it
1288
01:59:10,860 --> 01:59:14,370
How many people are here?
It�s it's just absolutely crazy
1289
01:59:15,370 --> 01:59:20,750
They are still showing brand-new software
they are writing for a computer that I developed
1290
01:59:20,750 --> 01:59:24,910
34 years ago that I thought would merely be
a museum piece
1291
01:59:24,910 --> 01:59:30,280
And the gaming industry and the Amiga fans
have kept it alive in a way that I could have
1292
01:59:30,280 --> 01:59:31,280
never imagined
1293
01:59:31,860 --> 01:59:37,000
I think that that 8-bit sound is the musical
equivalent of candy
1294
01:59:37,000 --> 01:59:42,310
It speaks of childhood but it speaks of something
more
1295
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:49,920
It speaks of a kind of uplifting, joyous celebration
of everything that childhood represents
1296
01:59:49,980 --> 01:59:54,840
It is safety, it is warmth and above all it's
fun
1297
01:59:54,940 --> 02:00:01,360
Yes there has been quite a nice retro revival
over the last few years
1298
02:00:01,360 --> 02:00:06,820
There's constantly games being released and
you know like Steam and other platforms and
1299
02:00:06,820 --> 02:00:10,380
that recreate the vibe of the old days
1300
02:00:10,680 --> 02:00:14,780
Yes I some times look back and think if I�d
have known this stuff was going to last this
1301
02:00:14,780 --> 02:00:17,700
long I'd probably have been taking it a bit
more seriously
1302
02:00:18,300 --> 02:00:23,900
This crazy room with 500 plus people here
in Germany
1303
02:00:23,900 --> 02:00:30,440
Thirty years later celebrating that amazing
computer and the technology that went into it
1304
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:35,800
You'll have this purple, throbbing Amiga monster
in all your houses controlling everything
1305
02:00:35,800 --> 02:00:40,040
to get rid of these Macintoshes and these
PCs and and I-Pads and all that
1306
02:00:40,040 --> 02:00:41,540
Let's go back to the roots of Amiga
1307
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:46,400
We started a YouTube channel called the �Guru
Meditation� named after the famous guru
1308
02:00:46,400 --> 02:00:49,380
meditation error you get when your Amiga crashes
and we have a sense of humour
1309
02:00:49,680 --> 02:00:54,380
My name is Mark Cale I�m from system 3
What does Commodore mean to me? Well it means
1310
02:00:54,380 --> 02:01:00,240
passion and it was a life changer for us all
our best games came from the Commodore 64
1311
02:01:00,240 --> 02:01:01,240
and the Amiga
1312
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:07,420
And they can look back and say �oh I had
one of those� or �I wanted something like that'
1313
02:01:07,460 --> 02:01:12,920
so it's it's really fun for me
to be able to share what I have with everybody here
1314
02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:19,400
My name's Andy Spencer and I�m Dean Payne
and we are the Retro Computer Museum
1315
02:01:19,600 --> 02:01:25,800
Next year March 2018 the home computer museum
will be open in Helmond, The Netherlands
1316
02:01:25,880 --> 02:01:33,370
Me and some friends even visiting the Amiga
30 in Mountain View California; because why not?
1317
02:01:33,370 --> 02:01:38,740
And then to England, Germany and everywhere
it was like crazy
1318
02:01:38,960 --> 02:01:45,500
I�m that passionate about Commodore and
Amiga that I engraved my iPhone with the Amiga logo
1319
02:01:45,820 --> 02:01:53,060
We�re currently in Cardiff in Wales attending
the A-EON DEVCON 2017
1320
02:01:53,060 --> 02:01:57,200
I'm hopeful of the work we're doing and the
work the community is doing as a whole
1321
02:01:57,200 --> 02:02:02,280
will ensure the future of the Amiga you know for
the next 10, 20, 30 years and I'm going to
1322
02:02:02,280 --> 02:02:07,800
make sure that my grandson knows about Amiga
and and actually will have his own
1323
02:02:07,940 --> 02:02:14,500
I'm here at revival 2017 the Rivals with Dave
Perry from Gamesmaster on stage behind me
1324
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:19,860
I went onto the television shows and began
doing TV and to this day the Commodore Amiga
1325
02:02:19,860 --> 02:02:21,520
is still my favourite gaming machine
1326
02:02:22,020 --> 02:02:25,020
My time with the Commodore 64 was usually
at my friend's house
1327
02:02:25,020 --> 02:02:28,760
I used to go over there every day, every weekend
play some games
1328
02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:34,440
There was this lovely shiny, beige bread bin
sitting on the table with a few games
1329
02:02:34,440 --> 02:02:39,460
How little they knew what was going to happen
for the next thirty years hence
1330
02:02:39,960 --> 02:02:47,340
This is the 1541 ultimate II what you can
do with this is you can connect an SD card
1331
02:02:47,340 --> 02:02:52,840
or a USB flash drive to load Commodore 64 games
1332
02:02:52,960 --> 02:02:58,380
Yes I think right now we're looking at about
four thousand ultimate ultimate tools that
1333
02:02:58,380 --> 02:03:00,500
are now in the field so that's quite quite
many
1334
02:03:00,920 --> 02:03:05,460
They wanted to spend their fifty-pences and
two pounds and three pounds whatever
1335
02:03:05,470 --> 02:03:10,210
I can't remember how much these games were
And they they were they wanted to make this
1336
02:03:10,210 --> 02:03:14,280
device do something you know so that doesn't
exist today
1337
02:03:14,600 --> 02:03:19,520
I got my first Commodore 64 and it was the
first release of the 64C
1338
02:03:19,540 --> 02:03:24,960
So I had the slim line model and to begin
with that slim line model I still have and
1339
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:27,080
it still works to this day
1340
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:35,760
64 bytes is a series of short videos released
weekly that introduce a various aspect of
1341
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:36,900
programming Commodore 64
1342
02:03:37,260 --> 02:03:42,760
I keep the actual C64 here for occasional
testing even though I do most of my development
1343
02:03:42,800 --> 02:03:48,660
on the modern computer
And I keep this old TV here because it actually
1344
02:03:48,740 --> 02:03:54,260
has a really blurry picture and so it's actually
helped me redefine some of the graphics
1345
02:03:54,280 --> 02:03:56,220
a little bit to make them a little easier to
view
1346
02:03:56,660 --> 02:04:02,120
This is where mega comes in
This is the original C65 as mentioned;
1347
02:04:02,200 --> 02:04:06,640
the one where Zed Yago demo was coded on
1348
02:04:09,680 --> 02:04:15,360
And this is what we have made it's basically the same
1349
02:04:15,980 --> 02:04:19,380
Hi everybody
Zach Weddington here; director of Viva Amiga
1350
02:04:19,380 --> 02:04:22,220
and I am on the set of the Commodore story
1351
02:04:22,600 --> 02:04:26,330
�Billion to nothing and just about three
that's
1352
02:04:26,340 --> 02:04:33,250
a strange kind of genius that Mehdi Ali�
Because that was a billion dollar company;
1353
02:04:33,240 --> 02:04:35,340
three years down the tubes to nothing
1354
02:04:35,860 --> 02:04:42,480
We are looking back on the retro scene from
technology of 30 years ago but even today
1355
02:04:42,480 --> 02:04:48,620
the technology of tomorrow is being developed
And they're using the Amiga technology
1356
02:04:48,740 --> 02:04:53,620
And yes I�m sat here with my Amiga PI, which
I built
1357
02:04:54,140 --> 02:04:57,080
It just shows you that what they did really
was truly something very special
1358
02:04:58,100 --> 02:05:03,560
Don�t want some you know person walking
down the street with an Atari t-shirt and
1359
02:05:03,560 --> 02:05:08,660
you know breaking out into a fight with some
of the Commodore t-shirt that would be bad
1360
02:05:09,100 --> 02:05:15,760
�Jack Buster's who ya gonna call� is an
original Amiga t-shirt; very rare
1361
02:05:15,900 --> 02:05:20,820
This is actually from workbench 2.0
Computer people at that time were you know
1362
02:05:20,860 --> 02:05:25,560
had a bad sense of humour
This is the famous �Commodore supports its floppy�s�
1363
02:05:28,440 --> 02:05:34,940
So that trip that I mentioned, the 60th anniversary
of the clearing of the Lodz Ghetto
1364
02:05:35,000 --> 02:05:45,460
So there were my parents, my aunt and uncle,
my mother's sister's husband and a bunch of
1365
02:05:45,480 --> 02:05:50,860
that generations kids and then that generations
kids
1366
02:05:50,860 --> 02:06:01,720
And there's a wonderful picture of us taken
in Birkenau at the end of the railway line
1367
02:06:03,320 --> 02:06:08,120
I am here at the National Museum of Computing,
which is located in the historic Block H of
1368
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:11,520
Bletchley Park
So behind me is the Harwell Dekatron -
1369
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:15,440
it's original name
It is now the world's oldest working computer
1370
02:06:15,880 --> 02:06:20,020
I'll be building a computer museum in my office
In the second story of my office there's a
1371
02:06:20,020 --> 02:06:27,120
platform that will have a Commodore 64 running
those games and several Amigas
1372
02:06:27,120 --> 02:06:29,940
I still have the original Amiga 1000 that
I did all the graphics for �Defender of
1373
02:06:29,940 --> 02:06:35,490
the Crown� on and it still works fine and
it's all the monitors and everything that go with it
1374
02:06:35,490 --> 02:06:40,010
I've got CD32s; I've got CDTVs; I've got Amiga 4000
1375
02:06:40,010 --> 02:06:45,960
Amiga 2000s, just everything And so those
will be lined up with all of their monitors
1376
02:06:45,960 --> 02:06:51,560
running in my little computer museum
I can, anytime I want a bit of nostalgia,
1377
02:06:51,580 --> 02:06:54,800
I can just go up to the second story and look
at that
1378
02:06:55,200 --> 02:07:00,260
Commodore indeed was a pioneering company
and changed many, many lives
1379
02:07:00,270 --> 02:07:04,240
including mine
The retro scene over the last few years seems
1380
02:07:04,240 --> 02:07:09,000
to be growing and growing
And you know all I want to say is you should
1381
02:07:09,000 --> 02:07:15,400
embrace your inner 8-bit and 16-bit passion
and continue on the retro ride
1382
02:07:15,840 --> 02:07:19,200
[beeps]
1383
02:07:20,780 --> 02:07:35,280
[Music]
1384
02:08:05,300 --> 02:08:10,960
I'd like to dedicate this to my mom, without
her I wouldn't be here today
156756
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