All language subtitles for Judgment At Nuremberg 1961

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian Download
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali Download
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian Download
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian Download
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch Download
en English Download
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German Download
el Greek Download
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian Download
ga Irish
it Italian Download
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese Download
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian Download
so Somali
es Spanish
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai Download
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:03:18,396 --> 00:03:20,900 I didn't know it was so bad. 2 00:03:21,024 --> 00:03:26,826 A couple of incendiaries, these old buildings go up like cellophane. 3 00:03:26,947 --> 00:03:30,410 A wall separates the old section of Nuremberg from the new. 4 00:03:30,533 --> 00:03:34,840 It goes back to... How far does it go back, Schmidt? 5 00:03:34,955 --> 00:03:37,458 - 1219, sir. - 1219. 6 00:03:40,001 --> 00:03:43,714 This is where the Nazi party held their rallies, isn't it? 7 00:03:43,838 --> 00:03:48,098 They all came here. Hitler, Goebbels, the whole crew. 8 00:03:48,218 --> 00:03:50,982 Thousands of them, from all over Germany. 9 00:03:58,937 --> 00:04:01,654 Does he have to blow that damn horn so much? 10 00:04:01,773 --> 00:04:06,329 It's not necessary to blow the horn so much, Schmidt. 11 00:04:17,163 --> 00:04:19,334 - You both know your duties? - Ja. 12 00:04:19,457 --> 00:04:22,672 Well, here we are. A little bit of old Germany. 13 00:04:22,794 --> 00:04:26,721 - Senator Burkette. - Captain Byers, this is Judge Haywood. 14 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:29,260 - Byers here will be your aide. - My what? 15 00:04:29,384 --> 00:04:33,062 Clerk, general guide, liaison. Any capacity you wish to use me. 16 00:04:33,179 --> 00:04:35,600 This will be your staff, Mr and Mrs Halbestadt. 17 00:04:35,724 --> 00:04:37,943 - Hello. - Good afternoon. 18 00:04:38,059 --> 00:04:40,111 Good afternoon, Your Honour. 19 00:04:40,228 --> 00:04:42,732 - Welcome. - You've met your driver, Schmidt. 20 00:04:42,856 --> 00:04:45,620 I'm at your service any time you need me. Day or night. 21 00:04:45,734 --> 00:04:47,027 Thanks. 22 00:04:47,152 --> 00:04:49,738 Let's show him around the rest of the place. Dan. 23 00:04:49,863 --> 00:04:52,331 We're in the reception room. 24 00:04:53,742 --> 00:04:56,839 Living room. The study is in there. 25 00:04:56,953 --> 00:05:02,007 There are two bedrooms on this floor, three upstairs. 26 00:05:02,125 --> 00:05:05,922 The furniture is part antique, part US army. 27 00:05:10,091 --> 00:05:14,980 The piano is showing signs of wear and tear, but it's a genuine Bechstein. 28 00:05:15,096 --> 00:05:18,062 - Quite a view, isn't it, sir? - Yes. 29 00:05:19,267 --> 00:05:20,774 Uh... 30 00:05:20,894 --> 00:05:23,824 Senator, I really, really don't need all this. 31 00:05:23,939 --> 00:05:27,153 When the US government does something, it does it right. 32 00:05:27,275 --> 00:05:30,787 - Who used to live here? - An important Nazi general and his wife. 33 00:05:30,904 --> 00:05:33,668 Is there anything else Judge Haywood ought to know? 34 00:05:33,782 --> 00:05:36,961 - Sir, any questions? - Yes, yes. 35 00:05:38,036 --> 00:05:40,255 - You're West Point, aren't you? - Yes. 36 00:05:40,372 --> 00:05:43,469 - What's your first name? - Harrison. Harry. 37 00:05:43,583 --> 00:05:46,088 Well, Harry, look. I'm not West Point, 38 00:05:46,089 --> 00:05:48,389 and all this formality kind of gets me down. 39 00:05:48,505 --> 00:05:53,179 It puts me ill at ease. You think it would be too much of an infraction of the rules 40 00:05:53,301 --> 00:05:56,267 if you were to call me Judge or Dan or something? 41 00:05:56,388 --> 00:06:00,315 OK, Judge. We do all our shopping at the army commissary. 42 00:06:00,433 --> 00:06:04,444 There isn't enough food at the local markets. The driver knows where it is. 43 00:06:04,563 --> 00:06:07,576 Here's a copy of the indictment of the case. 44 00:06:07,691 --> 00:06:10,704 - Thanks. - I hope you'll be comfortable here, sir. 45 00:06:10,819 --> 00:06:14,580 Captain, I think the whole state of Maine would be comfortable here. 46 00:06:14,698 --> 00:06:17,581 My office is next to yours, if you need anything. 47 00:06:17,701 --> 00:06:19,753 - Thank you. - Senator. 48 00:06:26,543 --> 00:06:31,300 Do you think I need the three servants? It kind of makes me feel like a damn fool. 49 00:06:31,423 --> 00:06:35,931 Well, it helps them out as well as you. You see, here they eat. 50 00:06:36,052 --> 00:06:37,345 Oh. 51 00:06:37,470 --> 00:06:40,519 Well, I need three servants. 52 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,358 It's good to have a man of your stature here, Dan. 53 00:06:43,476 --> 00:06:48,910 Sure. Sure. I was the only man in America qualified for this job. 54 00:06:49,024 --> 00:06:52,120 You know I wasn't the first choice, nor even the tenth. 55 00:06:52,235 --> 00:06:54,287 - You know it, I know it. - What do you mean? 56 00:06:54,404 --> 00:06:58,070 Let's face it. Hitler is gone, Goebbels is gone, 57 00:06:58,071 --> 00:07:00,171 Göring is gone... committed suicide. 58 00:07:00,285 --> 00:07:04,081 Now we're down to judging the doctors, businessmen and judges. 59 00:07:04,205 --> 00:07:07,883 - Some think they shouldn't be judged. - So? 60 00:07:08,001 --> 00:07:10,469 It makes for a lack of candidates for the job. 61 00:07:10,587 --> 00:07:15,178 You had to beat the backwoods of Maine to come up with a hick like me. 62 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:19,606 - I hope you're not sorry you came. - No, I'm not sorry I came. 63 00:07:19,721 --> 00:07:22,651 I just wanted you to know I know where the body is buried. 64 00:07:22,766 --> 00:07:25,067 No, I think the trials should go on. 65 00:07:25,185 --> 00:07:29,575 Especially the trials of the German judges. I hope I'm up to it. 66 00:07:29,689 --> 00:07:31,529 You're up to it. 67 00:07:31,650 --> 00:07:36,905 Well, relax. Enjoy this place while you can. 68 00:07:37,030 --> 00:07:40,494 - You're gonna be a pretty busy fellow. - Thanks, Senator. 69 00:07:40,617 --> 00:07:42,918 See you tomorrow, Judge. 70 00:07:43,912 --> 00:07:46,925 Shall we, uh, take these upstairs? 71 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,508 Oh, yes, thank you. 72 00:07:52,254 --> 00:07:56,893 - Here, I can take that one. - No, let me take it. Please. 73 00:08:32,419 --> 00:08:35,100 Here they come. 74 00:09:05,452 --> 00:09:07,836 The tribunal is now in session. 75 00:09:07,954 --> 00:09:12,426 God bless the United States and this honourable tribunal. 76 00:09:45,325 --> 00:09:48,042 The tribunal will now arraign the defendants. 77 00:09:48,161 --> 00:09:53,760 A microphone will be placed in front of the defendant Emil Hahn. 78 00:09:58,255 --> 00:10:02,727 Emil Hahn, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 79 00:10:07,472 --> 00:10:09,442 Not guilty. 80 00:10:09,558 --> 00:10:12,690 The question was are you represented by counsel? 81 00:10:17,899 --> 00:10:18,991 I am represented. 82 00:10:19,109 --> 00:10:23,783 How do you plead to the charges and specifications in the indictment, 83 00:10:23,905 --> 00:10:26,124 guilty or not guilty? 84 00:10:27,993 --> 00:10:30,923 Not guilty on all counts. 85 00:10:31,037 --> 00:10:33,089 Friedrich Hofstetter. 86 00:10:34,541 --> 00:10:37,424 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 87 00:10:39,379 --> 00:10:43,602 - I am represented. - How do you plead, guilty or not guilty? 88 00:10:43,717 --> 00:10:46,434 Nicht schuldig. 89 00:10:46,553 --> 00:10:49,234 You may be seated. 90 00:10:52,893 --> 00:10:54,613 Werner Lampe. 91 00:10:59,983 --> 00:11:03,530 Are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 92 00:11:03,653 --> 00:11:05,705 Counsel? 93 00:11:09,492 --> 00:11:12,422 Yes, yes, of course, I am represented. 94 00:11:13,288 --> 00:11:17,429 How do you plead to the charges, guilty or not guilty? 95 00:11:17,542 --> 00:11:19,512 Nicht schuldig. 96 00:11:19,628 --> 00:11:22,096 You may be seated. 97 00:11:24,132 --> 00:11:26,932 Ernst Janning. 98 00:11:27,052 --> 00:11:32,984 Ernst Janning, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 99 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:54,255 Ernst Janning, are you represented by counsel before this tribunal? 100 00:12:04,172 --> 00:12:07,636 I represent the defendant, Your Honour. 101 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:10,772 How do you plead to the charges and specifications 102 00:12:10,887 --> 00:12:16,142 set forth in the indictment against you, guilty or not guilty? 103 00:12:19,187 --> 00:12:21,951 Your Honour, may I address the court? 104 00:12:33,994 --> 00:12:37,208 The defendant does not recognise the authority of this tribunal 105 00:12:37,330 --> 00:12:39,418 and wishes to lodge a formal protest. 106 00:12:39,541 --> 00:12:42,922 A plea of not guilty will be entered. 107 00:12:57,726 --> 00:13:01,949 The prosecution will begin its opening address. 108 00:13:02,314 --> 00:13:04,366 Slow and easy, Junior. 109 00:13:18,371 --> 00:13:23,675 The case is unusual, in that the defendants are charged with crimes 110 00:13:23,793 --> 00:13:26,558 committed in the name of the law. 111 00:13:27,297 --> 00:13:32,517 These men, together with their deceased or fugitive colleagues, 112 00:13:32,636 --> 00:13:38,437 are the embodiment of what passed for justice during the Third Reich. 113 00:13:38,558 --> 00:13:43,945 The defendants served as judges during the period of the Third Reich. 114 00:13:44,064 --> 00:13:47,694 Therefore you, Your Honours, as judges on the bench, 115 00:13:47,817 --> 00:13:52,955 will be sitting in judgment of judges in the dock. 116 00:13:54,741 --> 00:13:56,995 And this is as it should be. 117 00:13:57,118 --> 00:14:03,050 For only a judge knows how much more a court is than a courtroom. 118 00:14:03,166 --> 00:14:05,966 It is a process and a spirit. 119 00:14:07,045 --> 00:14:09,097 It is the house of law. 120 00:14:11,299 --> 00:14:15,012 The defendants knew this too. They knew courtrooms well. 121 00:14:15,136 --> 00:14:18,648 They sat in their black robes and they distorted, they perverted, 122 00:14:18,765 --> 00:14:21,613 they destroyed justice and law in Germany. 123 00:14:21,726 --> 00:14:25,439 The prosecution will please watch the light. 124 00:14:25,564 --> 00:14:29,194 - The interpreter cannot follow you. - I'm sorry, Your Honour. 125 00:14:29,317 --> 00:14:32,580 They distorted, they perverted, 126 00:14:32,696 --> 00:14:36,409 they destroyed justice and law in Germany. 127 00:14:37,826 --> 00:14:41,088 This in itself is undoubtedly a great crime. 128 00:14:41,204 --> 00:14:44,467 But the prosecution is not calling the defendants to account 129 00:14:44,583 --> 00:14:50,384 for violating constitutional guaranties or withholding due process of law. 130 00:14:50,505 --> 00:14:55,014 The prosecution is calling them to account for murder, 131 00:14:56,553 --> 00:14:58,973 brutalities, 132 00:14:59,097 --> 00:15:01,517 torture, 133 00:15:01,766 --> 00:15:04,151 atrocities! 134 00:15:04,269 --> 00:15:07,781 They share, with all the leaders of the Third Reich, 135 00:15:07,898 --> 00:15:11,492 responsibility for the most malignant, the most calculated, 136 00:15:11,610 --> 00:15:15,916 the most devastating crimes in the history of all mankind. 137 00:15:16,031 --> 00:15:18,830 They are perhaps more guilty than some of the others, 138 00:15:18,950 --> 00:15:24,337 for they had attained maturity long before Hitler's rise to power. 139 00:15:24,456 --> 00:15:29,426 Their minds weren't warped at an early age by Nazi teachings. 140 00:15:29,544 --> 00:15:34,978 They embraced the ideologies of the Third Reich as educated adults, 141 00:15:35,091 --> 00:15:39,848 when they, most of all, should have valued justice. 142 00:15:45,352 --> 00:15:49,991 Here they'll receive the justice they denied others. 143 00:15:51,524 --> 00:15:56,495 They'll be judged according to the evidence presented in this courtroom. 144 00:15:56,613 --> 00:15:59,081 The prosecution asks nothing more. 145 00:16:03,203 --> 00:16:06,999 Herr Rolfe will make the opening statement for the defence. 146 00:16:22,556 --> 00:16:25,273 May it please the tribunal. 147 00:16:27,394 --> 00:16:31,736 It is not only a great honour... 148 00:16:31,856 --> 00:16:33,944 but also a great challenge... 149 00:16:34,067 --> 00:16:36,119 for an advocate... 150 00:16:37,529 --> 00:16:40,626 to aid this tribunal in its task. 151 00:16:42,576 --> 00:16:45,209 The entire civilised world 152 00:16:45,328 --> 00:16:48,425 will follow closely what we do here. 153 00:16:49,541 --> 00:16:52,638 For this is not an ordinary trial, 154 00:16:52,752 --> 00:16:56,679 by any means of the accepted parochial sense. 155 00:16:58,258 --> 00:17:00,263 The avowed purpose of this tribunal 156 00:17:00,385 --> 00:17:05,024 is broader than the visiting of retribution on a few men. 157 00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:11,487 It is dedicated to the reconsecration of the temple of justice. 158 00:17:11,605 --> 00:17:15,052 It is dedicated to finding a code of justice 159 00:17:15,053 --> 00:17:17,953 the whole world will be responsible to. 160 00:17:21,448 --> 00:17:24,413 How will this code be established? 161 00:17:26,912 --> 00:17:28,964 It will be established 162 00:17:31,917 --> 00:17:39,141 in a clear, honest evaluation of the responsibility for the crimes 163 00:17:39,257 --> 00:17:43,101 in the indictment stated by the prosecution. 164 00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:48,653 In the words of the great American jurist Oliver Wendell Holmes, 165 00:17:48,767 --> 00:17:51,946 "This responsibility will not be found only in documents 166 00:17:52,062 --> 00:17:55,075 that no one contests or denies." 167 00:17:55,190 --> 00:18:00,363 "It will be found in considerations of a political or social nature." 168 00:18:00,487 --> 00:18:07,462 "It will be found, most of all, in the character of men." 169 00:18:09,829 --> 00:18:13,211 What is the character of Ernst Janning? 170 00:18:14,876 --> 00:18:17,973 Let us examine his life for a moment. 171 00:18:18,964 --> 00:18:21,432 He was born in 1885. 172 00:18:21,549 --> 00:18:24,349 Received the degree of Doctor of Law in 1907. 173 00:18:24,469 --> 00:18:27,233 Became a judge in East Prussia in 1914. 174 00:18:27,347 --> 00:18:30,894 Following World War I, he became one of the Weimar Republic leaders 175 00:18:31,017 --> 00:18:33,900 and one of the framers of its democratic constitution. 176 00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:36,738 In subsequent years, he achieved international fame 177 00:18:36,856 --> 00:18:41,033 not only for his work as a great jurist, but also as the author of legal textbooks 178 00:18:41,152 --> 00:18:44,082 which are still used in universities all over the world. 179 00:18:44,197 --> 00:18:48,420 He became Minister of Justice in Germany in 1935. 180 00:18:49,411 --> 00:18:52,376 If Ernst Janning is to be found guilty, 181 00:18:52,497 --> 00:18:55,843 certain implications must arise. 182 00:18:56,001 --> 00:18:59,844 A judge does not make the laws. 183 00:19:01,172 --> 00:19:04,934 He carries out the laws of his country. 184 00:19:05,051 --> 00:19:09,808 The statement "My country, right or wrong" 185 00:19:10,891 --> 00:19:14,604 was expressed by a great American patriot. 186 00:19:16,062 --> 00:19:19,360 It is no less true for a German patriot. 187 00:19:22,444 --> 00:19:26,536 Should Ernst Janning have carried out the laws of his country? 188 00:19:26,656 --> 00:19:31,128 Or should he have refused to carry them out and become a traitor? 189 00:19:31,244 --> 00:19:36,001 This is the crux of the issue at the bottom of this trial. 190 00:19:38,668 --> 00:19:43,473 The defence is as dedicated to finding responsibility 191 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:45,642 as is the prosecution. 192 00:19:47,219 --> 00:19:51,644 For it is not only Ernst Janning who is on trial here. 193 00:19:55,018 --> 00:19:57,272 It is the German people. 194 00:20:00,941 --> 00:20:04,903 The tribunal will recess until further notification. 195 00:20:37,477 --> 00:20:39,529 Yeah. 196 00:20:42,315 --> 00:20:47,072 If it's all right with you, Byers can file these briefs later. 197 00:20:47,195 --> 00:20:51,751 It was quite a damning speech by Colonel Lawson, wasn't it? 198 00:20:51,866 --> 00:20:54,915 I wonder if those men in the dock can really be responsible 199 00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:57,373 for the things he listed in the indictment. 200 00:20:57,497 --> 00:20:59,917 I've been here two years, and after that long 201 00:21:00,041 --> 00:21:04,348 you find that responsibility is not a cut-and-dried thing. 202 00:21:04,462 --> 00:21:06,598 What are you fellows up to this weekend? 203 00:21:06,715 --> 00:21:09,051 My wife and I are going to Liége. 204 00:21:09,175 --> 00:21:11,477 There's nothing in Liege. I've been there. 205 00:21:11,595 --> 00:21:13,564 My son was in the 101st. 206 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,108 He's buried in the American cemetery outside Liege. 207 00:21:17,225 --> 00:21:19,906 - I'm sorry. - That's all right. 208 00:21:20,604 --> 00:21:22,858 - See you Monday, Dan. - Mm. 209 00:21:24,024 --> 00:21:27,286 - Coming my way? - No, I'm staying here for a moment. 210 00:21:27,402 --> 00:21:29,739 I'm waiting for some records from Byers. 211 00:21:29,863 --> 00:21:31,915 Right. 212 00:21:53,220 --> 00:21:57,775 - Here are the reports you asked for, sir. - Thank you. 213 00:21:58,683 --> 00:22:03,440 Captain, do you think you could get me a copy of the books Ernst Janning wrote? 214 00:22:03,563 --> 00:22:06,695 - There are quite a few of them. - I'd like all of them. 215 00:22:06,816 --> 00:22:10,613 And also a copy of the Weimar constitution. Can you get that for me? 216 00:22:10,737 --> 00:22:13,667 - Yes, of course. - Thank you. 217 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,174 - How long have you been here, Captain? - Two years. 218 00:22:20,288 --> 00:22:23,136 - Two years, that's a long time. - Yes, sir. 219 00:22:23,291 --> 00:22:25,343 - Any friends? - Sure. 220 00:22:27,462 --> 00:22:30,048 - German friends? - Yes. 221 00:22:31,174 --> 00:22:33,262 - A girl? - Yes. 222 00:22:34,302 --> 00:22:37,481 Her parents were Nazis, but she was eight when they came in. 223 00:22:37,597 --> 00:22:40,361 - I didn't ask you that. - Maybe you were thinking it. 224 00:22:40,475 --> 00:22:42,860 It's natural to think about it. 225 00:22:42,978 --> 00:22:46,655 I thought if anybody was going to indoctrinate her, it might as well be me. 226 00:22:46,773 --> 00:22:50,570 - Will there be anything else? - No. I think I'll take a walk around town. 227 00:22:50,694 --> 00:22:53,244 Try the old section for a beer and a sausage. 228 00:22:53,363 --> 00:22:55,415 Thank you. 229 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,572 Nicht mehr! Nicht mehr! 230 00:24:15,862 --> 00:24:17,914 Auf Wiedersehen, Opa. 231 00:24:24,621 --> 00:24:27,171 - Do you understand English? - Yes, a little. 232 00:24:27,290 --> 00:24:31,513 - What did she say? - She said "Goodbye, Grandpa." 233 00:25:20,302 --> 00:25:23,101 Vor uns liegt Deutschland, 234 00:25:23,221 --> 00:25:25,522 in uns marschiert Deutschland, 235 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,819 und hinter uns kommt Deutschland. 236 00:25:44,534 --> 00:25:48,794 - Are they treating you all right? - Yes. They are treating me all right. 237 00:25:48,914 --> 00:25:54,513 We still have some friends who have contact with the American authorities. 238 00:25:54,628 --> 00:25:59,219 - I can tell them if they are not. - They're treating me all right. 239 00:26:02,052 --> 00:26:04,104 Doctor Janning... 240 00:26:05,931 --> 00:26:08,434 we are both in an embarrassing position. 241 00:26:08,558 --> 00:26:10,813 I know you didn't want me as your counsel. 242 00:26:10,936 --> 00:26:14,317 I know you didn't want anyone. 243 00:26:14,439 --> 00:26:18,580 But I must tell you something. Will you listen to me? 244 00:26:18,693 --> 00:26:20,034 Yes. 245 00:26:22,864 --> 00:26:28,119 I intend to represent your case with complete dignity. 246 00:26:28,245 --> 00:26:32,041 There will be no appeal to sentiment, 247 00:26:32,165 --> 00:26:35,677 there will be no falling at the mercy of the court. 248 00:26:35,794 --> 00:26:41,726 The game will be played according to their own rules. 249 00:26:43,551 --> 00:26:49,982 We'll see whether they have the courage to sit in judgment on a man like you. 250 00:26:50,183 --> 00:26:52,235 The way I see it, 251 00:26:53,645 --> 00:27:00,194 the most important elements in the case are the sterilisation decrees 252 00:27:00,318 --> 00:27:03,830 and the Feldenstein-Hoffman affair. 253 00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:10,080 Doctor Janning, 254 00:27:10,203 --> 00:27:12,457 I must tell you something. 255 00:27:16,543 --> 00:27:22,095 I admired you since I was a boy in the university. 256 00:27:23,383 --> 00:27:26,847 It was because I thought I might be able to achieve 257 00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:29,900 some of the things you have done 258 00:27:30,015 --> 00:27:34,855 that saw me through the war. 259 00:27:37,022 --> 00:27:41,661 You have been somebody to look up to for all of us. 260 00:27:43,904 --> 00:27:46,288 Is that all, Herr Rolfe? 261 00:27:50,827 --> 00:27:52,879 - Yes. - Thank you. 262 00:28:03,381 --> 00:28:07,012 Dr Wieck, do you know the defendant Ernst Janning? 263 00:28:10,388 --> 00:28:12,440 Yes, I know him. 264 00:28:12,557 --> 00:28:15,108 Will you tell us in what capacity? 265 00:28:15,227 --> 00:28:20,696 We served in the Ministry of Justice together from 1929 till 1935. 266 00:28:20,815 --> 00:28:26,498 - Did you know him before that? - Yes. He was a law student of mine. 267 00:28:26,613 --> 00:28:28,369 - Did you know him well? - Yes. 268 00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:30,329 - Was he a protégé of yours? - Yes. 269 00:28:30,450 --> 00:28:32,751 Why? 270 00:28:32,869 --> 00:28:36,879 He was always a man of great intelligence. 271 00:28:36,998 --> 00:28:41,839 He was a man born with the qualities of a great legal mind. 272 00:28:41,962 --> 00:28:45,010 Dr Wieck, would you, uh... 273 00:28:46,091 --> 00:28:49,353 would you tell us, from your own experience, 274 00:28:49,469 --> 00:28:55,816 the position of the judge in Germany prior to the advent of Adolf Hitler? 275 00:28:55,934 --> 00:28:59,481 The position of the judge was one of complete independence. 276 00:28:59,604 --> 00:29:01,075 Mm-hm. 277 00:29:01,189 --> 00:29:05,151 Now would you describe the contrast, if any, 278 00:29:05,277 --> 00:29:09,156 after the coming to power of National Socialism in 1933? 279 00:29:09,864 --> 00:29:15,748 Judges became subject to something outside of objective justice. 280 00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:18,070 They were subject 281 00:29:18,071 --> 00:29:21,471 to what was necessary for the protection of the country. 282 00:29:21,585 --> 00:29:25,511 - Would you explain this, please? - The first consideration of the judge 283 00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:29,094 became the punishment of acts against the state, 284 00:29:29,217 --> 00:29:31,898 rather than objective consideration of the case. 285 00:29:32,762 --> 00:29:35,562 And what other changes were there? 286 00:29:35,682 --> 00:29:39,443 The right to appeal was eliminated. 287 00:29:39,561 --> 00:29:46,074 The Supreme Court of the Reich was replaced by peoples' and special courts. 288 00:29:47,068 --> 00:29:52,158 The concept of race was made a legal concept for the first time. 289 00:29:52,616 --> 00:29:55,296 And what was the result of this? 290 00:29:55,452 --> 00:29:57,504 The result? 291 00:29:58,914 --> 00:30:02,627 The result was to hand over the administration of justice 292 00:30:02,751 --> 00:30:05,598 into the hands of the dictatorship. 293 00:30:05,712 --> 00:30:07,634 - Dr Wieck... - Colonel Lawson, 294 00:30:07,756 --> 00:30:10,686 I'd like to ask a few questions. 295 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,356 Did the judiciary protest these laws abridging their independence? 296 00:30:15,472 --> 00:30:21,071 A few of them did. Those who did resigned or were forced to resign. 297 00:30:21,853 --> 00:30:23,905 Others... 298 00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:28,284 adapted themselves to the new situation. 299 00:30:29,611 --> 00:30:34,665 Do you think the judiciary was aware of the consequences to come? 300 00:30:34,783 --> 00:30:36,918 At first, perhaps not. 301 00:30:37,035 --> 00:30:42,718 Later it became clear to anyone who had eyes and ears. 302 00:30:42,832 --> 00:30:44,220 Thank you. 303 00:30:45,543 --> 00:30:50,183 Now, would you please describe for us the changes in criminal law. 304 00:30:50,966 --> 00:30:57,147 Its characteristic was an ever-increasing inflation of the death penalty. 305 00:30:57,264 --> 00:31:00,111 Sentences were passed against defendants 306 00:31:00,225 --> 00:31:06,323 just because they were Poles or Jews, or politically undesirable. 307 00:31:06,439 --> 00:31:10,366 Novel National Socialist measures were introduced, 308 00:31:10,485 --> 00:31:16,334 among them sexual sterilisation for those who were categorised as asocial. 309 00:31:16,449 --> 00:31:23,378 Was it necessary for judges to wear any distinctive mark on their robes in 1935? 310 00:31:23,498 --> 00:31:26,381 The so-called "Führer's decree" 311 00:31:26,543 --> 00:31:30,600 required judges to wear the insignia of the swastika on their robes. 312 00:31:30,714 --> 00:31:34,308 - Did you wear such an insignia? - No. 313 00:31:34,426 --> 00:31:36,478 I would have been ashamed to wear it. 314 00:31:36,595 --> 00:31:41,150 - Did you resign in 1935? - Yes, sir. 315 00:31:41,266 --> 00:31:45,193 Did Ernst Janning wear a swastika on his robe? 316 00:31:48,732 --> 00:31:50,737 Yes. 317 00:31:50,859 --> 00:31:53,623 That's all. Thank you. 318 00:31:57,282 --> 00:31:58,705 Herr Rolfe. 319 00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:09,636 Herr Justizrat Dr Wieck. 320 00:32:10,420 --> 00:32:17,016 You used the phrase "necessary for the protection of the country." 321 00:32:17,135 --> 00:32:19,686 Would you explain the conditions in Germany 322 00:32:19,804 --> 00:32:23,103 at the time National Socialism came to power? 323 00:32:23,225 --> 00:32:25,277 What conditions? 324 00:32:28,188 --> 00:32:30,442 Would you say there was widespread hunger? 325 00:32:30,565 --> 00:32:31,609 Yes. 326 00:32:31,733 --> 00:32:34,367 Would you say there was internal disunity? 327 00:32:34,486 --> 00:32:35,743 Yes. 328 00:32:35,862 --> 00:32:38,792 - Was there a Communist Party? - Yes. 329 00:32:38,907 --> 00:32:41,126 Was it the third largest party in Germany? 330 00:32:41,243 --> 00:32:43,164 Mm... yes. 331 00:32:43,286 --> 00:32:50,013 Would you say that National Socialism helped to cure some of these conditions? 332 00:32:51,336 --> 00:32:53,555 Yes, but at a terrible price, and... 333 00:32:53,672 --> 00:32:58,560 Please, confine yourself to answering the questions only. 334 00:32:58,677 --> 00:33:02,141 Therefore, was it not possible that a judge might wear a swastika 335 00:33:02,264 --> 00:33:05,312 and yet work for what he thought was best for his country? 336 00:33:05,433 --> 00:33:08,316 No. It was not possible. 337 00:33:11,898 --> 00:33:13,950 Dr Wieck, 338 00:33:15,694 --> 00:33:22,788 you were not in the administration from the years 1935 to 1943, 339 00:33:22,909 --> 00:33:25,626 by your own admission. 340 00:33:25,745 --> 00:33:33,006 Is it not possible that your view of the administration might be distorted? 341 00:33:33,128 --> 00:33:35,133 No, it is not. 342 00:33:36,214 --> 00:33:41,980 How can you testify about events in the administration if you were not there? 343 00:33:42,095 --> 00:33:45,061 I had many friends in the legal administration. 344 00:33:45,181 --> 00:33:48,065 There were journals and books. 345 00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:51,990 From journals and books? 346 00:33:55,775 --> 00:33:57,827 I see. 347 00:33:59,195 --> 00:34:04,000 Dr Wieck, you referred to "novel National Socialist measures introduced, 348 00:34:04,117 --> 00:34:07,332 among them sexual sterilisation." 349 00:34:07,454 --> 00:34:11,713 Are you aware that sexual sterilisation was not invented by National Socialism, 350 00:34:11,833 --> 00:34:14,763 but had been advanced for years before as a weapon 351 00:34:14,878 --> 00:34:18,224 in dealing with the mentally incompetent and the criminal? 352 00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:20,012 Yes, I am aware of that. 353 00:34:20,133 --> 00:34:24,013 Are you aware it has advocates among leading citizens in many countries? 354 00:34:24,137 --> 00:34:27,020 I am not an expert on such laws. 355 00:34:28,141 --> 00:34:30,905 Then permit me to read one to you. 356 00:34:33,063 --> 00:34:36,610 This is a High Court opinion 357 00:34:36,733 --> 00:34:41,372 upholding such laws in existence in another country. 358 00:34:42,906 --> 00:34:44,958 And I quote: 359 00:34:49,371 --> 00:34:52,384 "We have seen more than once that the public welfare 360 00:34:52,499 --> 00:34:55,216 may call upon their best citizens for their lives." 361 00:34:55,335 --> 00:34:58,218 "It would be strange indeed if it could not call upon 362 00:34:58,338 --> 00:35:02,763 those who already sap the strength of the state for these lesser sacrifices 363 00:35:02,884 --> 00:35:06,313 in order to prevent our being swamped by incompetence." 364 00:35:06,429 --> 00:35:10,570 "It is better if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime 365 00:35:10,684 --> 00:35:12,938 or to let them starve for their imbecility, 366 00:35:13,061 --> 00:35:19,574 society can prevent their propagation by medical means in the first place." 367 00:35:21,736 --> 00:35:25,747 "Three generations of imbeciles are enough." 368 00:35:28,243 --> 00:35:32,715 - Do you recognise it now, Dr Wieck? - No, sir, I don't. 369 00:35:33,707 --> 00:35:37,384 Actually, there is no particular reason you should, 370 00:35:37,502 --> 00:35:39,029 since the opinion upholds 371 00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:41,430 the sterilisation law in the state of Virginia, 372 00:35:41,548 --> 00:35:43,767 of the United States, 373 00:35:43,883 --> 00:35:46,601 and was written by that great American jurist 374 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:52,402 Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. 375 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:04,909 Now, Dr Wieck, 376 00:36:05,739 --> 00:36:08,207 in view of what you have just learned, 377 00:36:08,325 --> 00:36:13,331 can you still say that sexual sterilisation was a "novel National Socialist measure"? 378 00:36:13,455 --> 00:36:15,507 Yes, I can say it, 379 00:36:15,624 --> 00:36:22,054 because it was never before used as a weapon against political opponents. 380 00:36:22,172 --> 00:36:24,224 Do you personally know of a case 381 00:36:24,341 --> 00:36:27,888 where someone was sterilised for political reasons? 382 00:36:28,011 --> 00:36:31,190 - I know that such things were done. - That's not the question. 383 00:36:31,306 --> 00:36:35,268 Please answer the question. Do you know of a case? 384 00:36:35,393 --> 00:36:39,190 I don't know of any specific case or specific date. 385 00:36:39,314 --> 00:36:43,276 I am asking if you have any first-hand, personal knowledge of such a case! 386 00:36:44,402 --> 00:36:47,700 No, I have no such personal knowledge. 387 00:36:47,822 --> 00:36:49,874 Thank you. 388 00:36:58,875 --> 00:37:00,927 Dr Wieck, 389 00:37:05,131 --> 00:37:10,435 you are aware of the charges in the indictment against Ernst Janning? 390 00:37:16,059 --> 00:37:18,444 Yes, I am. 391 00:37:18,979 --> 00:37:23,404 Can you honestly say he is responsible for them? 392 00:37:24,609 --> 00:37:26,661 Yes, I can. 393 00:37:27,904 --> 00:37:32,164 Do you consider yourself free of responsibility? 394 00:37:34,744 --> 00:37:35,918 Yes, I do. 395 00:37:37,831 --> 00:37:44,213 Dr Wieck, did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934? 396 00:37:44,337 --> 00:37:46,841 Your Honour, I object. 397 00:37:46,965 --> 00:37:52,019 The witness doesn't have to answer that question. He's not on trial. 398 00:37:52,137 --> 00:37:57,107 All Germany is on trial. This tribunal put it on trial when it indicted Ernst Janning. 399 00:37:57,225 --> 00:38:02,398 If responsibility is to be found, the widest latitude is to be permitted. 400 00:38:02,522 --> 00:38:04,361 Objection overruled. 401 00:38:05,692 --> 00:38:09,951 Did you ever swear to the Civil Servant Loyalty Oath of 1934? 402 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,953 - Everyone did. - We are not interested in everyone. 403 00:38:16,077 --> 00:38:18,628 We are interested in what you did. 404 00:38:18,747 --> 00:38:24,133 Would you read the oath from the Reich Law Gazette, March 1933. 405 00:38:24,252 --> 00:38:27,542 "I swear that I shall obey the leader of the German Reich and people, 406 00:38:27,543 --> 00:38:28,643 Adolf Hitler, 407 00:38:28,757 --> 00:38:31,936 that I shall be loyal to him, that I will observe the laws 408 00:38:32,052 --> 00:38:36,892 and that I will conscientiously fulfil my duties, so help me God." 409 00:38:37,015 --> 00:38:39,067 Everyone swore to it. 410 00:38:40,143 --> 00:38:42,694 It was mandatory. 411 00:38:44,189 --> 00:38:46,443 Yes. 412 00:38:46,566 --> 00:38:52,664 But you're such a perceptive man, Dr Wieck. You could see what was coming. 413 00:38:52,781 --> 00:38:57,538 You could see that National Socialism was leading Germany to disaster. 414 00:38:57,661 --> 00:39:00,591 "It was clear to anyone who had eyes and ears." 415 00:39:02,457 --> 00:39:06,598 Didn't you realise what it would have meant 416 00:39:06,711 --> 00:39:12,595 if you, and men like you, would have refused to swear to the oath? 417 00:39:12,717 --> 00:39:18,934 It would have meant that Hitler could never have come to absolute power! 418 00:39:20,725 --> 00:39:24,866 Why didn't you? Dr Wieck, why didn't you? 419 00:39:26,273 --> 00:39:29,452 Can you give us an explanation? 420 00:39:29,568 --> 00:39:31,738 Has it something to do with your pension? 421 00:39:31,861 --> 00:39:34,282 Did it mean more to you than your country? 422 00:39:34,406 --> 00:39:38,119 Your Honour, I object to the entire line of questioning 423 00:39:38,243 --> 00:39:40,580 and ask that it be stricken from the record. 424 00:39:40,704 --> 00:39:43,717 Prosecuting counsel's job is to find responsibility. 425 00:39:43,832 --> 00:39:45,967 Your Honour, I made an objection. 426 00:39:46,084 --> 00:39:48,801 Prosecution does not want to find responsibility? 427 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,559 There is responsibility for more here than swearing to a loyalty oath! 428 00:39:53,675 --> 00:39:54,683 There is indeed! 429 00:39:54,801 --> 00:39:57,102 - Order. - One thing even the German machine, 430 00:39:57,220 --> 00:40:00,732 with its monumental efficiency, has been unable to destroy! 431 00:40:00,849 --> 00:40:03,233 - Order! - All the victims! 432 00:40:03,351 --> 00:40:06,733 More victims than the world has ever known. They will walk in here... 433 00:40:06,855 --> 00:40:09,441 Order! Order! 434 00:40:09,566 --> 00:40:13,956 This tribunal will admonish both counsels. It will not tolerate this again. 435 00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:17,534 We're not here to listen to such outbursts, but to serve justice. 436 00:40:17,657 --> 00:40:21,501 - Your Honour, I made an objection. - The objection is overruled. 437 00:40:23,038 --> 00:40:25,292 The witness is excused. 438 00:40:57,822 --> 00:41:01,085 - Ever read any books by Janning? - No, I don't think so. 439 00:41:01,201 --> 00:41:04,084 - The Meaning of the Law. - How is it? Interesting? 440 00:41:04,204 --> 00:41:07,301 All the books by Janning are interesting. 441 00:41:07,415 --> 00:41:11,128 They're a picture of an era, its hopes, aspirations. 442 00:41:11,253 --> 00:41:13,637 They weren't very different from ours. 443 00:41:13,755 --> 00:41:17,349 Listen to this, on the signing of the Weimar constitution. 444 00:41:17,467 --> 00:41:21,347 "Now we can look forward to a Germany without guns and bloodshed." 445 00:41:21,471 --> 00:41:25,398 "A Germany of justice, where men can live instead of die." 446 00:41:25,517 --> 00:41:28,566 "A Germany of purpose, of freedom, of humanity." 447 00:41:28,687 --> 00:41:30,941 "A Germany that calls for the best in man." 448 00:41:31,064 --> 00:41:33,199 How could a man who wrote words like these 449 00:41:33,316 --> 00:41:37,077 be part of sterilisations and murders? How could he be? 450 00:41:37,195 --> 00:41:41,075 Dan, there are a lot of things that happened here that nobody understands. 451 00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:43,287 I know. 452 00:41:43,410 --> 00:41:47,337 But the prosecution is going to have to prove every inch of its allegation 453 00:41:47,455 --> 00:41:51,466 against a man like Janning if I'm to pronounce sentence on him. 454 00:41:51,585 --> 00:41:53,506 Gentlemen, I'm on my way. 455 00:41:53,628 --> 00:41:55,680 - Coming, Ken? - Right. 456 00:41:56,548 --> 00:42:00,391 There's just this business on the curtailment of rights. 457 00:42:00,510 --> 00:42:01,851 Tomorrow. 458 00:42:01,970 --> 00:42:05,517 Dan, my wife is planning a get-together tomorrow at the Grand Hotel. 459 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,104 - She wants you to come. - All right. Thank you. 460 00:42:09,227 --> 00:42:13,534 And she'd like to provide you with some kind of female companionship. 461 00:42:13,648 --> 00:42:15,784 She thought you might be lonely here. 462 00:42:15,901 --> 00:42:18,285 No, thanks, Curtiss. Thanks very much. 463 00:42:18,403 --> 00:42:20,740 You know how these wives love to play Cupid. 464 00:42:20,864 --> 00:42:23,248 - I think I'll keep it stag. - All right. 465 00:42:23,366 --> 00:42:26,296 - How about you, Ken? - Thanks. My wife and I are busy. 466 00:42:26,411 --> 00:42:29,376 - Good night. - Good night, Dan. 467 00:42:49,643 --> 00:42:51,979 Mrs Halbestadt, could I... 468 00:42:54,022 --> 00:42:55,694 Hello. 469 00:42:56,524 --> 00:42:58,779 Hello. 470 00:42:58,902 --> 00:43:01,999 Your Honour, this is Madame Bertholt. 471 00:43:02,113 --> 00:43:04,201 This is His Honour, Judge Haywood. 472 00:43:05,575 --> 00:43:08,423 Madame Bertholt, this is her house. 473 00:43:08,536 --> 00:43:11,502 She came to get some of her belongings from the basement. 474 00:43:11,623 --> 00:43:16,013 - I didn't know she was coming tonight. - It's my responsibility, Mrs Halbestadt. 475 00:43:16,127 --> 00:43:18,117 I've stored some of my things here 476 00:43:18,118 --> 00:43:21,218 until I could get a room large enough for them. 477 00:43:21,341 --> 00:43:24,022 - I hope you don't mind. - No. Not at all. 478 00:43:24,427 --> 00:43:27,441 You can examine what I have here if you like. 479 00:43:27,556 --> 00:43:30,486 - Of course not. - Then I'll just take these out. 480 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,985 - Thank you, Mrs Halbestadt. - Let me help you. 481 00:43:33,103 --> 00:43:36,449 - I can manage. - I'll just take it outside. Please. 482 00:43:36,565 --> 00:43:38,617 Good night. 483 00:43:51,705 --> 00:43:56,878 It's heavy. It's full of books and pictures that mean nothing to anyone but me. 484 00:43:57,002 --> 00:43:59,338 - Mr Schmidt! - Your Honour. 485 00:44:01,131 --> 00:44:04,725 - Would you drive Mrs Bertholt home? - Yes, Your Honour. 486 00:44:04,843 --> 00:44:07,524 - I hope you're comfortable here. - Yes, I am. Very. 487 00:44:07,637 --> 00:44:10,141 My favourite spot was always the garden. 488 00:44:10,265 --> 00:44:13,362 Remind Mr Halbestadt to take good care of the rock garden. 489 00:44:13,476 --> 00:44:16,573 You'll get a great deal of pleasure out of it in summer. 490 00:44:16,688 --> 00:44:19,156 I'll sit in front, thank you. 491 00:44:21,234 --> 00:44:22,824 - Good night. - Good night. 492 00:44:22,944 --> 00:44:26,242 - Karolinenstrasse 115. - Yes, madam. 493 00:44:46,259 --> 00:44:48,311 Sit down, sit down. 494 00:44:50,388 --> 00:44:53,983 Mrs Halbestadt, you worked for Mrs Bertholt, didn't you? 495 00:44:55,185 --> 00:44:58,483 - Yes, Your Honour. - How long did she live here? 496 00:44:59,189 --> 00:45:00,945 Madame Bertholt? 497 00:45:01,066 --> 00:45:05,823 Oh, Madame Bertholt and her family have lived here for many generations. 498 00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:09,117 Thank you. 499 00:45:10,075 --> 00:45:13,337 Your Honour, you came in here for something? 500 00:45:13,453 --> 00:45:14,794 Oh! Oh, yeah. 501 00:45:14,913 --> 00:45:17,084 I'm just going to make myself a sandwich. 502 00:45:17,207 --> 00:45:20,054 We will make it. We will make you anything you want. 503 00:45:20,168 --> 00:45:22,968 No, it's nothing. I always did it for myself back home. 504 00:45:23,088 --> 00:45:27,976 What would you like? I have some ham and cheese and liverwurst. 505 00:45:28,093 --> 00:45:30,145 Cheese will be fine. 506 00:45:31,805 --> 00:45:33,857 That's very kind of you. 507 00:45:41,231 --> 00:45:46,320 Mr Halbestadt, what was it like, living under National Socialism? 508 00:45:48,321 --> 00:45:53,541 - What was it like? - Yes. I mean, uh... day-to-day? 509 00:45:53,660 --> 00:45:56,424 I know many people at home like you. 510 00:45:56,538 --> 00:45:59,635 You're good people. I believe that. 511 00:46:00,750 --> 00:46:03,633 What was it like for you, living under Hitler? 512 00:46:03,753 --> 00:46:07,680 We were not political. Mr Halbestadt and I are not political. 513 00:46:07,799 --> 00:46:10,100 - Ein Glas fur die Milch, bitte. - Ja. 514 00:46:10,302 --> 00:46:16,602 No, but you must have been aware of some of the events that were going on. 515 00:46:18,518 --> 00:46:20,938 Many things were going on, Mr Halbestadt. 516 00:46:21,062 --> 00:46:23,482 There were parades. 517 00:46:24,316 --> 00:46:28,159 Hitler and Goebbels came here every year. 518 00:46:28,778 --> 00:46:30,830 What was it like? 519 00:46:31,364 --> 00:46:34,461 We never attended meetings. Never. 520 00:46:35,368 --> 00:46:38,583 I'm not trying to put you on trial. I'm just, uh... 521 00:46:38,705 --> 00:46:41,386 I'm just curious. I'd like to know. 522 00:46:41,499 --> 00:46:44,714 - Here's your sandwich, Your Honour. - Thank you. 523 00:46:44,836 --> 00:46:46,888 You're welcome. 524 00:46:47,005 --> 00:46:49,057 Thank you. 525 00:46:51,635 --> 00:46:56,854 For instance, there was a place called Dachau not too many miles from here. 526 00:46:56,973 --> 00:47:00,604 Did you ever know what was going on there? 527 00:47:00,727 --> 00:47:04,321 We knew nothing about it. Nothing about it. 528 00:47:05,607 --> 00:47:11,124 How can you ask if we know anything about that? 529 00:47:12,447 --> 00:47:14,748 I'm sorry. 530 00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:19,541 Your Honour, we are only little people. 531 00:47:21,039 --> 00:47:23,625 We lost a son in the army 532 00:47:24,876 --> 00:47:27,806 and our daughter in the bombing. 533 00:47:29,005 --> 00:47:31,888 During the war we almost starved. 534 00:47:33,093 --> 00:47:35,228 It was terrible for us. 535 00:47:36,555 --> 00:47:38,642 I'm sure it was. 536 00:47:40,267 --> 00:47:44,608 Hitler... Hitler did some good things. 537 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,074 I won't say he didn't do some good things. 538 00:47:49,192 --> 00:47:53,867 He built the autobahn. He gave more people work. 539 00:47:54,656 --> 00:47:58,203 We won't say he didn't do some good things. 540 00:47:59,244 --> 00:48:01,794 But the other things... 541 00:48:02,706 --> 00:48:06,012 The things they say he did to the Jews and the rest, 542 00:48:06,013 --> 00:48:07,713 we knew nothing about that. 543 00:48:07,836 --> 00:48:09,888 Very few Germans did. 544 00:48:12,090 --> 00:48:14,938 And if we did know... 545 00:48:16,052 --> 00:48:18,271 what could we do? 546 00:48:18,388 --> 00:48:20,892 But Mrs Halbestadt said you didn't know. 547 00:48:26,897 --> 00:48:30,243 Mrs Bertholt, how did she react to all this? 548 00:48:30,942 --> 00:48:34,454 Ah, Madame Bertholt is a very fine woman, Your Honour. 549 00:48:34,571 --> 00:48:37,869 I'm sure she is. What about her husband? 550 00:48:39,868 --> 00:48:42,087 He was in the army. 551 00:48:42,203 --> 00:48:44,256 What happened to him? 552 00:48:45,498 --> 00:48:49,758 He was one of the defendants in the Malmedy case. 553 00:48:53,006 --> 00:48:57,016 General Bertholt. Karl Bertholt. 554 00:48:58,553 --> 00:49:01,187 He was executed, Your Honour. 555 00:49:02,974 --> 00:49:05,026 Yes, I know that. 556 00:49:08,855 --> 00:49:12,034 The document then states that the photographer Rudolf Lenz 557 00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:14,701 is requested to present himself within two weeks 558 00:49:14,819 --> 00:49:20,419 at one of the hospitals mentioned below for "medical treatment". 559 00:49:21,326 --> 00:49:24,754 Next, prosecution presents affidavit document no.488, 560 00:49:24,871 --> 00:49:27,837 which concerns the seamstress Anni Münch. 561 00:49:27,958 --> 00:49:30,093 Document reads as follows: 562 00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:33,556 "District court Frankfurt am Main has decided the following: 563 00:49:33,672 --> 00:49:37,764 the seamstress Anni Münch, daughter of Wilhelm Münch, is to be sterilised." 564 00:49:37,884 --> 00:49:40,814 "She is requested to present herself within two weeks 565 00:49:40,929 --> 00:49:43,432 at one of the hospitals mentioned below." 566 00:49:43,557 --> 00:49:49,156 "If she does not take herself voluntarily, she will be taken by force." 567 00:49:49,271 --> 00:49:54,823 Next, document no.449, interrogatories in the German and English text, 568 00:49:54,943 --> 00:49:57,660 concerning the farmer's helper Meyer Eichinger. 569 00:49:57,779 --> 00:49:59,831 - Your Honour. - What? 570 00:50:02,909 --> 00:50:06,753 Defence objects to introduction of these repetitive documents. 571 00:50:06,871 --> 00:50:09,755 According to the ruling of the first tribunal, 572 00:50:09,874 --> 00:50:12,010 such documents are not even admissible 573 00:50:12,127 --> 00:50:17,300 unless supported by independent evidence of their authenticity. 574 00:50:17,424 --> 00:50:19,096 Objection sustained. 575 00:50:20,677 --> 00:50:23,809 Your Honour, may I ask the defence a question? 576 00:50:23,930 --> 00:50:25,318 Yes. 577 00:50:25,432 --> 00:50:31,648 Would evidence on sterilisation be admissible if there were a witness? 578 00:50:40,196 --> 00:50:42,249 - Yes. - Thank you. 579 00:50:43,408 --> 00:50:47,121 Prosecution calls the witness Rudolf Petersen. 580 00:51:10,936 --> 00:51:13,486 Will you raise your right hand? 581 00:51:13,605 --> 00:51:15,491 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 582 00:51:15,607 --> 00:51:19,285 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 583 00:51:19,402 --> 00:51:21,454 Yes, I do. 584 00:51:37,921 --> 00:51:41,801 Will you please tell the court your full name and place of residence. 585 00:51:43,051 --> 00:51:48,438 Rudolf Petersen. Frankfurt am Main. Gretweg, Nummer sieben. 586 00:51:48,598 --> 00:51:51,149 When were you born, Mr Petersen? 587 00:51:51,268 --> 00:51:53,901 May 20, 1914. 588 00:51:54,020 --> 00:51:57,034 And what is your occupation? 589 00:51:57,148 --> 00:52:00,696 Baker's helper. I'm a baker's helper. 590 00:52:01,027 --> 00:52:03,578 Are your parents living? 591 00:52:04,447 --> 00:52:06,499 No. 592 00:52:06,658 --> 00:52:09,837 What were the causes of their deaths? 593 00:52:13,373 --> 00:52:17,169 Mr Petersen, did they die of natural causes? 594 00:52:17,294 --> 00:52:19,548 Ja, ja. Ja. Natural. 595 00:52:21,214 --> 00:52:26,648 Now, Mr Petersen, what political party did your father belong to? 596 00:52:26,761 --> 00:52:30,273 Communist. The Communist Party. 597 00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:32,229 Uh-huh. 598 00:52:32,350 --> 00:52:34,770 Now, think back. 599 00:52:36,104 --> 00:52:42,534 Do you remember anything unusual that happened to you and your family in 1933, 600 00:52:42,652 --> 00:52:45,618 before the Nazis came to power? 601 00:52:45,739 --> 00:52:49,416 I mean anything of a violent nature. 602 00:52:49,534 --> 00:52:51,835 Ja, ja. 603 00:52:51,953 --> 00:52:54,919 - How old were you at the time? - 19. 604 00:52:56,166 --> 00:53:00,046 Would you please tell the court what happened? 605 00:53:00,170 --> 00:53:03,053 Uh... some... 606 00:53:03,173 --> 00:53:06,886 Some SA men broke into the house, our house, 607 00:53:08,094 --> 00:53:11,891 and they broke the windows and the door. 608 00:53:13,141 --> 00:53:15,193 They called us traitors 609 00:53:16,102 --> 00:53:21,192 and they tried to... to beat up my father. 610 00:53:22,108 --> 00:53:24,160 And what happened then? 611 00:53:24,277 --> 00:53:27,456 My brothers and I, we went to help him. 612 00:53:28,615 --> 00:53:31,249 And there was a fight. 613 00:53:31,368 --> 00:53:35,211 Finally we got them outside in the street 614 00:53:35,330 --> 00:53:37,667 and we beat them up, 615 00:53:38,124 --> 00:53:41,090 and turned them over to the police. 616 00:53:41,544 --> 00:53:44,724 - Did the police do anything about it? - No. 617 00:53:44,839 --> 00:53:46,227 Why not? 618 00:53:46,341 --> 00:53:52,522 It was then at the time of the national elections. 619 00:53:52,639 --> 00:53:56,435 - The National Socialists came to power? - Ja. 620 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,612 Now, Mr Petersen, 621 00:53:59,396 --> 00:54:05,328 what happened after 1933, after the Nazis came to power? 622 00:54:06,611 --> 00:54:09,494 I got a job on a farm, 623 00:54:09,614 --> 00:54:14,004 but for the work, to drive a truck it was necessary. 624 00:54:14,869 --> 00:54:19,378 I went to the city building to apply for a license. 625 00:54:19,666 --> 00:54:22,086 And what happened there? 626 00:54:22,210 --> 00:54:25,224 They took me to an official. 627 00:54:26,881 --> 00:54:31,390 Did you ever have any dealings with this official before? 628 00:54:31,511 --> 00:54:37,277 He was one of the men who broke into our house that night. 629 00:54:38,226 --> 00:54:41,904 What did he say to your application? 630 00:54:42,022 --> 00:54:46,577 He said an examination there would have to be. 631 00:54:46,693 --> 00:54:50,074 Where was the examination to take place? 632 00:54:50,196 --> 00:54:53,708 In the district court of Stuttgart. 633 00:54:53,825 --> 00:54:57,538 Who was the presiding justice in the court? 634 00:55:00,290 --> 00:55:02,971 Justice Hofstetter. 635 00:55:04,294 --> 00:55:07,806 Now, what happened in the courtroom? 636 00:55:07,923 --> 00:55:13,641 They asked me my full name and so forth. 637 00:55:14,554 --> 00:55:16,809 What else did they ask you? 638 00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:23,116 They asked me when Adolf Hitler and Dr Goebbels were born. 639 00:55:23,230 --> 00:55:25,863 What did you reply? 640 00:55:25,982 --> 00:55:31,285 I told them I didn't know, and also that I didn't care. 641 00:55:37,244 --> 00:55:40,506 Did they ask you any more questions? 642 00:55:41,081 --> 00:55:45,589 No. They told me that I would be hearing from them in ten days. 643 00:55:45,710 --> 00:55:48,047 I see. 644 00:55:48,171 --> 00:55:50,425 Mr Petersen, 645 00:55:51,258 --> 00:55:54,141 I'd like you to look at something. 646 00:56:06,439 --> 00:56:09,572 - Do you recognise it? - Ja. 647 00:56:09,693 --> 00:56:13,287 Would you please read it for the tribunal? 648 00:56:14,906 --> 00:56:18,963 "District court of Stuttgart." 649 00:56:19,077 --> 00:56:23,502 "The baker Rudolf Petersen, born May 20th 1914, 650 00:56:23,623 --> 00:56:27,764 son of railway employee Hans Petersen, 651 00:56:28,670 --> 00:56:33,807 is to be sterilised." 652 00:56:34,801 --> 00:56:37,387 Would you read the last paragraph? 653 00:56:42,017 --> 00:56:48,743 "It is therefore requested he present himself within two weeks 654 00:56:48,857 --> 00:56:52,451 to one of the hospitals mentioned below." 655 00:56:53,361 --> 00:57:00,670 "If he does not betake himself voluntarily, 656 00:57:02,203 --> 00:57:04,458 he will be taken by force." 657 00:57:08,668 --> 00:57:11,386 Now please read the signature at the bottom. 658 00:57:14,633 --> 00:57:17,646 "Presiding Justice Hofstetter." 659 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,902 Would you read what is written below the signature? 660 00:57:25,769 --> 00:57:28,023 - Below? - Below. 661 00:57:28,980 --> 00:57:34,330 "By authority of Ernst Janning, 662 00:57:36,071 --> 00:57:38,918 Minister of Justice." 663 00:57:41,117 --> 00:57:43,169 Your Honour, 664 00:57:45,497 --> 00:57:49,210 may the defence see the file of Mr Petersen? 665 00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,721 What did you do after you received the letter, Mr Petersen? 666 00:57:53,838 --> 00:57:58,643 I ran away. I stayed at the farm of a friend I have. 667 00:57:59,511 --> 00:58:02,228 And did you return? 668 00:58:02,347 --> 00:58:04,434 - Did I what? - Did you return? 669 00:58:05,016 --> 00:58:06,440 Yes. 670 00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,612 And what happened then? 671 00:58:09,604 --> 00:58:13,661 The police came. The police came. 672 00:58:13,775 --> 00:58:19,707 - Where did they take you? - To the hospital. 673 00:58:20,657 --> 00:58:25,663 Mr Petersen. Excuse me, I wonder if you could speak a little louder, please. 674 00:58:27,038 --> 00:58:29,090 To the hospital. 675 00:58:29,207 --> 00:58:34,213 - What happened at the hospital? - They kept me there. 676 00:58:34,337 --> 00:58:37,719 The nurse who was... 677 00:58:39,509 --> 00:58:41,680 Well, she came in anyway. 678 00:58:41,803 --> 00:58:44,935 She was to prepare me for the operation. 679 00:58:45,056 --> 00:58:49,695 And she said she thought the whole thing was terrible. 680 00:58:50,645 --> 00:58:57,076 And then the doctor came in, who was supposed to do the... 681 00:58:59,237 --> 00:59:02,749 and he said he thought it was awful. 682 00:59:04,534 --> 00:59:07,963 Were you in fact sterilised? 683 00:59:16,755 --> 00:59:19,223 Thank you very much, Mr Petersen. 684 00:59:20,634 --> 00:59:21,927 That's all. 685 00:59:24,221 --> 00:59:26,273 Herr Rolfe. 686 00:59:36,107 --> 00:59:38,159 Mr Petersen, 687 00:59:39,819 --> 00:59:43,995 you may take your earphones off now, if you want to. 688 00:59:50,247 --> 00:59:55,466 Mr Petersen, you say you work as a baker's helper? Is that correct? 689 00:59:55,585 --> 00:59:57,637 Yes, that is right. 690 00:59:59,256 --> 01:00:01,676 What other occupations have you held? 691 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,350 I have worked for my father. 692 01:00:05,303 --> 01:00:09,894 - What did your father do? - He was a railroad worker. 693 01:00:10,016 --> 01:00:13,030 Yes, but what did he do? 694 01:00:13,144 --> 01:00:22,114 He would raise and lower the barrier at the crossing for traffic. 695 01:00:25,699 --> 01:00:28,712 And you spoke about your brothers. 696 01:00:28,827 --> 01:00:32,754 - How many brothers do you have? - Five. 697 01:00:32,872 --> 01:00:35,590 - And sisters? - Four. 698 01:00:35,709 --> 01:00:38,806 - Then you are a family of ten? - Yes. 699 01:00:41,131 --> 01:00:44,061 What occupations do your brothers have? 700 01:00:44,175 --> 01:00:46,560 Labourers. 701 01:00:46,678 --> 01:00:48,730 All labourers? 702 01:00:48,972 --> 01:00:51,024 I see. 703 01:00:51,641 --> 01:00:56,113 Mr Petersen, you said the court at Stuttgart asked you two questions, 704 01:00:56,229 --> 01:00:58,365 the birth dates of Hitler and Dr Goebbels. 705 01:00:58,481 --> 01:01:01,827 - Is that correct? - Yes. Correct. 706 01:01:01,943 --> 01:01:04,079 What else did they ask you? 707 01:01:04,195 --> 01:01:06,414 Uh... 708 01:01:06,531 --> 01:01:09,212 Nothing else. 709 01:01:09,326 --> 01:01:11,378 Are you sure? 710 01:01:11,494 --> 01:01:14,793 Are you sure there were no questions about your schooling? 711 01:01:14,915 --> 01:01:16,967 Objection! 712 01:01:17,083 --> 01:01:21,010 The witness has already answered that question. 713 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,892 Objection sustained. 714 01:01:31,181 --> 01:01:34,894 May I ask you, Mr Petersen... 715 01:01:38,647 --> 01:01:40,699 may I ask you... 716 01:01:43,568 --> 01:01:46,072 how long did you attend school? 717 01:01:46,196 --> 01:01:50,502 - Six years. - Six years. Why not longer? 718 01:01:52,035 --> 01:01:53,874 I had to go to work. 719 01:01:53,995 --> 01:01:59,168 Would you consider yourself a very bright fellow at school? 720 01:01:59,292 --> 01:02:02,638 School? It was... 721 01:02:02,754 --> 01:02:06,301 It was a long while ago. I don't... 722 01:02:06,424 --> 01:02:09,557 Perhaps you were not able to keep up with the others 723 01:02:09,678 --> 01:02:11,730 and that's why you did not continue? 724 01:02:11,846 --> 01:02:13,982 Objection, Your Honour. 725 01:02:14,099 --> 01:02:17,563 The witness' school record has no bearing on what happened to him. 726 01:02:17,686 --> 01:02:23,320 It was the task of the health court to sterilise the mentally incompetent. 727 01:02:26,361 --> 01:02:28,413 Objection overruled. 728 01:02:34,452 --> 01:02:40,669 Were you able or were you not able to keep up with the others? 729 01:02:46,631 --> 01:02:50,057 I would like to refer to the efficiency report from the school 730 01:02:50,058 --> 01:02:51,058 about Mr Petersen. 731 01:02:51,177 --> 01:02:57,275 He failed to be promoted and was placed in a class of backward children. 732 01:03:00,395 --> 01:03:04,357 You say your parents died of natural causes. 733 01:03:04,482 --> 01:03:05,775 Yes. 734 01:03:05,901 --> 01:03:09,412 Would you describe in detail the illness your mother died of? 735 01:03:09,529 --> 01:03:11,581 She died of her heart. 736 01:03:12,699 --> 01:03:17,005 In the last stages of her illness, did your mother show any... 737 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:20,050 mental peculiarities? 738 01:03:20,165 --> 01:03:23,427 Mental... No. No. 739 01:03:25,045 --> 01:03:27,299 In the decision that came from Stuttgart, 740 01:03:27,422 --> 01:03:31,100 it is stated that your mother suffered from hereditary feeble-mindedness. 741 01:03:31,217 --> 01:03:33,768 That is not... That is not true. 742 01:03:33,887 --> 01:03:35,809 Not true, not true. 743 01:03:37,432 --> 01:03:40,066 Can you give us some clarification as to how 744 01:03:40,185 --> 01:03:44,147 the Hereditary Health Court in Stuttgart arrived at that decision? 745 01:03:44,272 --> 01:03:49,160 It was just something they said to put me on the operating table. 746 01:03:49,277 --> 01:03:51,958 - It was just something they said? - Yes! 747 01:03:52,864 --> 01:03:59,460 Mr Petersen, there was a simple test that the Health Court used to ask 748 01:03:59,579 --> 01:04:02,545 in all cases of mental incompetence. 749 01:04:02,666 --> 01:04:05,798 Since you say they did not ask you then, 750 01:04:05,919 --> 01:04:08,553 perhaps you can answer it for us now? 751 01:04:08,672 --> 01:04:12,349 Form a sentence out of the words "hare", "hunter", "field". 752 01:04:12,467 --> 01:04:14,638 Your Honour! Objection! 753 01:04:19,683 --> 01:04:21,735 Mr Petersen, 754 01:04:23,311 --> 01:04:27,950 was the court in Stuttgart constituted like this one? 755 01:04:29,067 --> 01:04:31,653 I don't understand what... 756 01:04:31,778 --> 01:04:34,329 Was there an audience? 757 01:04:34,781 --> 01:04:36,869 An audience? Yes, yes. 758 01:04:37,784 --> 01:04:39,836 Thank you. 759 01:04:42,330 --> 01:04:44,382 Objection overruled. 760 01:04:46,126 --> 01:04:51,892 Hare, hunter, field, Mr Petersen. 761 01:04:54,676 --> 01:04:56,728 Take your time. 762 01:04:58,638 --> 01:05:00,975 Hare, hunter, field. Uh... 763 01:05:03,727 --> 01:05:06,230 Hare, 764 01:05:06,354 --> 01:05:08,406 hunter... 765 01:05:10,650 --> 01:05:13,498 They had already made up... 766 01:05:14,529 --> 01:05:17,661 When I walked into the court, they had made up their minds. 767 01:05:17,782 --> 01:05:20,879 They had made up their minds! 768 01:05:20,994 --> 01:05:24,422 They put me in the hospital, like a criminal. 769 01:05:24,539 --> 01:05:29,178 I could not say anything, I could not do anything. I... 770 01:05:30,754 --> 01:05:32,806 I had to lie there. 771 01:05:35,342 --> 01:05:38,106 My... my mother... 772 01:05:39,221 --> 01:05:41,273 what you say about her. 773 01:05:41,389 --> 01:05:45,186 She was a woman, a servant woman, who worked hard. 774 01:05:45,310 --> 01:05:47,362 She was a hardworking woman. 775 01:05:47,479 --> 01:05:51,275 And it is not fair... not fair... what you say. 776 01:05:57,197 --> 01:05:59,249 I have it here. 777 01:06:00,325 --> 01:06:04,548 I want to show you. I have here her picture. 778 01:06:05,372 --> 01:06:08,052 I would like you looked at it. 779 01:06:19,386 --> 01:06:22,103 I would like you to judge. 780 01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,697 I want that you tell me, 781 01:06:27,811 --> 01:06:31,405 was she feeble-minded? 782 01:06:32,399 --> 01:06:34,451 My mother! 783 01:06:35,735 --> 01:06:37,787 Was she feeble-minded? 784 01:06:40,365 --> 01:06:42,121 Was she? 785 01:06:52,210 --> 01:06:56,172 I feel it is my duty to point out to the tribunal 786 01:06:56,298 --> 01:06:59,430 that the witness is not in control of his mental processes. 787 01:07:00,802 --> 01:07:02,724 I know I'm not. 788 01:07:02,846 --> 01:07:04,898 Since that day, 789 01:07:06,057 --> 01:07:09,854 I've been half I've ever been. 790 01:07:17,527 --> 01:07:21,454 The tribunal does not know how you were before. 791 01:07:21,573 --> 01:07:26,247 It can never know. It has only your word. 792 01:07:48,308 --> 01:07:50,360 Court is adjourned. 793 01:08:02,322 --> 01:08:05,003 That's one problem we have with the prosecution... 794 01:08:05,116 --> 01:08:08,249 it's filled with young radicals like Lawson. 795 01:08:08,370 --> 01:08:10,754 Is that what Lawson is? A young radical? 796 01:08:10,872 --> 01:08:13,921 Well, he was a personal protégé of FDR. 797 01:08:14,042 --> 01:08:17,174 FDR had a few friends who weren't radicals, didn't he? 798 01:08:17,295 --> 01:08:19,763 Name one. 799 01:08:19,881 --> 01:08:22,645 - Wendell Wilkie. - Wilkie. 800 01:08:22,759 --> 01:08:25,808 Is he your idea of a conservative? 801 01:08:25,929 --> 01:08:30,022 As a matter of fact, Dan, I've been wondering how you stand? 802 01:08:30,141 --> 01:08:34,567 I'll clarify that for you, Curtiss. I'm a rock-ribbed Republican 803 01:08:34,688 --> 01:08:38,034 who thought that Franklin Roosevelt was a great man. 804 01:08:38,149 --> 01:08:40,653 Oh. One of those. 805 01:08:43,530 --> 01:08:45,452 Max! 806 01:08:45,574 --> 01:08:48,338 - Max Perkins. Do you know him? - I don't think so. 807 01:08:48,451 --> 01:08:50,788 He's with the United Press. 808 01:08:54,374 --> 01:08:58,515 - Max, what are you doing here? - I thought you might kick up a row. 809 01:08:58,628 --> 01:09:00,883 I haven't had that much to drink. 810 01:09:01,006 --> 01:09:03,307 - Oh, I'm sorry. This is Judge Ives. - Hello. 811 01:09:03,425 --> 01:09:05,181 - Mrs Ives. - How do you do? 812 01:09:05,302 --> 01:09:07,638 - How do you do? - Judge Haywood, Mrs Bertholt. 813 01:09:07,762 --> 01:09:10,099 - We have met. - Yes, we have. 814 01:09:10,223 --> 01:09:14,185 - Won't you join us for a drink? - We would like to very much. 815 01:09:14,311 --> 01:09:17,028 - Max, will you sit here? - Thank you. 816 01:09:17,147 --> 01:09:21,489 Incidentally, Max, I admired your article on Mrs Bertholt very much. 817 01:09:21,610 --> 01:09:25,536 It was straight reporting. Her defence of her husband was quite eloquent. 818 01:09:25,655 --> 01:09:28,040 Are you going to do a story on these trials? 819 01:09:28,325 --> 01:09:30,661 I'll tell you something frankly, Judge. 820 01:09:30,785 --> 01:09:34,463 At the moment I couldn't give a story away on the Nuremberg trials. 821 01:09:34,581 --> 01:09:38,638 - What do you mean, Mr Perkins? - The American public isn't interested. 822 01:09:38,752 --> 01:09:41,931 The war's only been over two years, Mr Perkins. 823 01:09:42,047 --> 01:09:43,719 That's right. 824 01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,889 - May I take your order? - Yes. See what the ladies will have. 825 01:09:47,010 --> 01:09:50,356 - How about some more beer, Dan? - No, I think I've had my fill of beer. 826 01:09:50,472 --> 01:09:52,559 I'd like to try something else, if I may. 827 01:09:52,682 --> 01:09:57,024 Why don't you try some Sonnenberg or Schwalbenwinkel? It's the local wine. 828 01:09:57,145 --> 01:09:59,993 - Sonnenberg or...? - Schwalbenwinkel. 829 01:10:00,106 --> 01:10:04,199 Yes, I think I'd like that. Some Schwalbenwinkel. 830 01:10:04,319 --> 01:10:06,787 - Will you have some? - Yes, thank you. 831 01:10:06,905 --> 01:10:09,539 - Shall we stay with the beer, Max? - Fine. 832 01:10:09,658 --> 01:10:11,460 Thank you. 833 01:10:11,576 --> 01:10:14,874 - You got home all right the other night? - Yes, thank you. 834 01:10:14,996 --> 01:10:18,793 I don't know what I would have done without the car. 835 01:10:18,917 --> 01:10:21,634 You speak English very well, Mrs Bertholt. 836 01:10:21,753 --> 01:10:23,011 Thank you. 837 01:10:23,129 --> 01:10:26,842 My husband and I spent two years in America. 838 01:10:29,094 --> 01:10:33,234 I hope you've had a chance to see something of Nuremberg. 839 01:10:33,348 --> 01:10:38,983 I'm afraid mainly the road between my house and the Palace of Justice. 840 01:10:39,104 --> 01:10:43,529 And then some places that have to do with the case, historical aspects. 841 01:10:43,650 --> 01:10:48,241 The Nazi aspects. You should see some of the other parts of Nuremberg. 842 01:10:48,363 --> 01:10:51,661 There are many beautiful things to see in the old part of town, 843 01:10:51,783 --> 01:10:53,835 museums we're trying to rebuild. 844 01:10:53,952 --> 01:10:58,211 And there's a concert, a piano concert, next week at the old opera house. 845 01:10:58,331 --> 01:11:02,591 Arthur Reiss. He was a refugee from Hitler in the early days. 846 01:11:02,711 --> 01:11:06,638 We've persuaded him to come back. It ought to be quite an evening. 847 01:11:06,756 --> 01:11:11,016 - Would you like to come? - Yes, I would. 848 01:11:11,136 --> 01:11:15,228 I'll have them leave a ticket for you at the box office. I'm on the committee. 849 01:11:15,348 --> 01:11:18,066 - Thank you very much, Mrs Bertholt. - It's nothing. 850 01:11:18,184 --> 01:11:22,064 I have a mission with the Americans, as Mr Perkins can tell you. 851 01:11:22,188 --> 01:11:24,525 Oh? What is that? 852 01:11:24,649 --> 01:11:28,706 To convince you that we're not all monsters. 853 01:11:31,781 --> 01:11:35,578 - Good evening, Colonel. - Colonel, Major Radnitz. 854 01:11:35,702 --> 01:11:38,170 Good evening, Mrs Bertholt. 855 01:11:41,082 --> 01:11:43,419 - I hope you'll excuse me. - You've just come. 856 01:11:43,543 --> 01:11:45,595 No, I must go. Please excuse me. 857 01:11:45,712 --> 01:11:47,764 It was awfully nice meeting you. 858 01:11:47,881 --> 01:11:50,930 There will be a concert ticket for you at the box office. 859 01:11:51,051 --> 01:11:52,094 Thank you. 860 01:11:52,219 --> 01:11:53,939 - Good night. - Good night. 861 01:11:54,054 --> 01:11:56,273 - Good night. - Good night, Mrs Bertholt. 862 01:11:59,726 --> 01:12:01,696 Huh. 863 01:12:01,811 --> 01:12:06,402 Mrs Bertholt doesn't hold a burning passion for me. 864 01:12:07,442 --> 01:12:10,123 I prosecuted her husband. 865 01:12:11,112 --> 01:12:14,458 Many people think a death sentence would not have been passed 866 01:12:14,574 --> 01:12:16,544 against General Bertholt today. 867 01:12:16,660 --> 01:12:19,210 I'm sure they do. 868 01:12:19,329 --> 01:12:21,548 I'm sure there are people who think 869 01:12:21,665 --> 01:12:24,879 all the prisoners in Nuremberg should be free today. 870 01:12:25,001 --> 01:12:27,053 All of them! Let's... 871 01:12:28,046 --> 01:12:29,802 Excuse me. 872 01:12:29,923 --> 01:12:31,975 I've had, uh... 873 01:12:32,092 --> 01:12:37,525 I've had one or two too many, as might be painfully obvious to you gentlemen. 874 01:12:37,639 --> 01:12:42,029 The spectacle this afternoon with Mr Petersen put me off my feed. I'm sorry. 875 01:12:42,143 --> 01:12:46,319 Three beers and Schwalbenwinkel, please. 876 01:12:50,193 --> 01:12:52,779 Prosit. Prosit. 877 01:12:52,904 --> 01:12:56,582 - Schwalbenwinkel. - Schwalbenwinkel. 878 01:12:56,700 --> 01:13:01,125 Yes, it's good beer. They make it good in this country. 879 01:13:01,246 --> 01:13:03,049 You know... 880 01:13:03,164 --> 01:13:07,471 You know, there's one thing about Americans. 881 01:13:07,586 --> 01:13:10,054 We're not cut out to be occupiers. 882 01:13:10,171 --> 01:13:13,137 We're new at it and we're not very good at it. 883 01:13:13,258 --> 01:13:16,355 We come over here, and what do we see? 884 01:13:17,304 --> 01:13:19,688 We see this beautiful country. 885 01:13:19,806 --> 01:13:22,855 It is beautiful. It's very beautiful. 886 01:13:22,976 --> 01:13:26,025 We see the culture that goes back for hundreds of years. 887 01:13:26,146 --> 01:13:28,945 We see its gemütlich charm, 888 01:13:29,065 --> 01:13:33,288 and the charm of people like, uh... Mrs Bertholt. 889 01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:36,788 We got a built-in inferiority complex. 890 01:13:36,907 --> 01:13:39,706 We forgive and forget easy. 891 01:13:39,826 --> 01:13:45,924 We give the other guy the benefit of the doubt... that's the American way. 892 01:13:46,041 --> 01:13:51,095 We beat the greatest war machine since Alexander the Great 893 01:13:51,212 --> 01:13:54,143 and now the boy scouts take over. 894 01:13:55,008 --> 01:13:58,888 The trouble with you, Colonel, is you'd like to indict the whole country. 895 01:13:59,012 --> 01:14:01,516 That might be emotionally satisfying to you, 896 01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:05,021 but it wouldn't be exactly practical, and hardly fair. 897 01:14:06,394 --> 01:14:08,446 Hardly fair? 898 01:14:10,941 --> 01:14:13,277 "Hare", 899 01:14:13,401 --> 01:14:15,786 "hunter", 900 01:14:15,904 --> 01:14:17,956 "field". 901 01:14:18,907 --> 01:14:21,375 That's right, let's be fair. 902 01:14:22,077 --> 01:14:25,624 The hare was shot by the hunter in the field. 903 01:14:25,747 --> 01:14:28,084 It's really quite simple. 904 01:14:29,584 --> 01:14:31,174 Uh... 905 01:14:31,294 --> 01:14:34,888 Colonel, I think we ought to be going. 906 01:14:35,006 --> 01:14:37,142 Yes. We shouldn't be discussing this. 907 01:14:37,259 --> 01:14:41,102 Oh, no, Judge we're fair Americans, and true blue. 908 01:14:41,221 --> 01:14:43,606 We mustn't do anything that's out of order. 909 01:14:43,723 --> 01:14:47,235 We can't do anything that's out of order. 910 01:14:50,146 --> 01:14:54,655 There are no Nazis in Germany. Didn't you know that, Judge? 911 01:14:54,776 --> 01:14:57,410 The Eskimos invaded Germany and took over. 912 01:14:57,529 --> 01:15:00,459 That's how all those terrible things happened. 913 01:15:00,574 --> 01:15:05,711 It wasn't the fault of the Germans, it was the fault of those damn Eskimos! 914 01:15:07,539 --> 01:15:10,837 Excuse me. Excuse me. 915 01:15:10,959 --> 01:15:14,222 - Good night, Colonel. - Good night. 916 01:15:27,475 --> 01:15:30,904 Can I have your attention? Sorry to interrupt your dancing. 917 01:15:31,021 --> 01:15:34,734 The following officers are requested to report to their units. 918 01:15:34,858 --> 01:15:38,654 Major McCarthy, Major Citron, Major Cantor, 919 01:15:38,862 --> 01:15:41,365 Captain Byers, Captain Connell, 920 01:15:41,489 --> 01:15:47,291 Captain Douglas, Captain Wolfe, Major Booth and Major Rice. 921 01:15:47,412 --> 01:15:50,627 Thank you. You can continue dancing. 922 01:15:53,209 --> 01:15:57,350 - Harry! What is it? - The Russians are in Czechoslovakia. 923 01:15:57,464 --> 01:16:01,141 Masaryk may have committed suicide. We're sending some units over. 924 01:16:01,259 --> 01:16:03,395 What do you think will happen? 925 01:16:03,511 --> 01:16:05,564 I don't know, sir. 926 01:16:08,475 --> 01:16:10,562 Oh, Judge Haywood. 927 01:16:12,145 --> 01:16:14,197 Elsa Scheffler. 928 01:16:14,397 --> 01:16:16,449 Guten Abend. 929 01:16:17,609 --> 01:16:19,661 Guten Abend. 930 01:16:22,447 --> 01:16:27,453 "President Truman responded by calling for an extension of military training." 931 01:16:27,577 --> 01:16:32,168 "He stated that he is deeply concerned with the survival of the Western nations 932 01:16:32,290 --> 01:16:35,220 in face of the threat from the east." 933 01:16:35,335 --> 01:16:37,174 "Threat from the east." 934 01:16:37,295 --> 01:16:41,352 Herr Janning, did you hear what is in the paper? 935 01:16:41,466 --> 01:16:45,808 Exactly what Hitler said: "The clash for survival between east and west." 936 01:16:45,929 --> 01:16:48,148 Ah, he knew. He knew! 937 01:16:48,265 --> 01:16:52,026 They'll see that we knew exactly what we were doing all the time. 938 01:16:52,143 --> 01:16:56,403 They cannot call us criminals and at the same time ask us to help them. 939 01:16:56,523 --> 01:17:01,696 We must stand together now. The most crucial part of this case is coming up. 940 01:17:01,820 --> 01:17:04,667 We have fallen on happy times, Herr Hahn. 941 01:17:04,781 --> 01:17:07,035 In the old times it would have made your day 942 01:17:07,158 --> 01:17:09,460 if I deigned to say "Good morning" to you. 943 01:17:09,578 --> 01:17:12,081 Now that we are here in this place together, 944 01:17:12,205 --> 01:17:15,420 you feel obliged to tell me what to do with my life. 945 01:17:15,542 --> 01:17:17,594 Herr Janning, you must stand with us. 946 01:17:17,711 --> 01:17:23,393 It is not good for Germans to turn on one another. We have a common ground now. 947 01:17:23,508 --> 01:17:25,478 Listen to me, Herr Hahn. 948 01:17:25,594 --> 01:17:28,524 Terrible things have happened to me in my life. 949 01:17:28,638 --> 01:17:30,857 But the worst thing that has ever happened 950 01:17:30,974 --> 01:17:33,939 is to find myself in the company of men like you. 951 01:17:34,060 --> 01:17:36,825 I have nothing in common with you and the party hacks. 952 01:17:36,938 --> 01:17:40,367 You have something in common... you were part of the same regime. 953 01:17:40,483 --> 01:17:42,987 You stood by that regime, like the rest of us. 954 01:17:43,111 --> 01:17:46,290 And there is something else you have in common: 955 01:17:46,406 --> 01:17:48,458 you are a German. 956 01:19:21,710 --> 01:19:26,135 - Good evening. Did you like it? - Yes, I did. Very much indeed. 957 01:19:26,256 --> 01:19:29,056 - Can I drop you? - I only live a few blocks from here. 958 01:19:29,175 --> 01:19:32,687 I was going to walk. Would you like to go for a walk? 959 01:19:32,804 --> 01:19:34,015 Yes. Yes, I would. 960 01:19:34,139 --> 01:19:37,188 I won't need the car now. I'll walk with Mrs Bertholt. 961 01:19:37,309 --> 01:19:39,361 - Shall I wait for you? - No, no. 962 01:19:39,477 --> 01:19:42,158 I'll wait for you, Your Honour. 963 01:19:48,153 --> 01:19:51,083 Vor einem großen Tor 964 01:19:51,197 --> 01:19:54,460 Steht' ne Laterne 965 01:19:54,576 --> 01:19:57,673 Und steht sie noch davor 966 01:19:57,787 --> 01:20:03,636 Da wollen wir uns wiederseh'n 967 01:20:03,752 --> 01:20:10,015 Bei der Laterne woll'n wir steh'n 968 01:20:10,133 --> 01:20:15,732 Wie einst Lili Marleen 969 01:20:15,847 --> 01:20:17,650 Wie einst... 970 01:20:17,766 --> 01:20:21,562 The German people love to sing, no matter what the situation. 971 01:20:21,686 --> 01:20:23,738 I've noticed that. 972 01:20:24,731 --> 01:20:29,619 Do American people sing in bars, too? I've forgotten. 973 01:20:29,736 --> 01:20:33,248 No. We're apt to be pretty sullen in bars. 974 01:20:35,492 --> 01:20:41,044 Und alle Leute soll'n es seh'n 975 01:20:41,748 --> 01:20:43,800 Wenn wir... 976 01:20:44,626 --> 01:20:47,556 I wish you understood German. 977 01:20:47,671 --> 01:20:51,099 The words are very beautiful. Very sad. 978 01:20:52,217 --> 01:20:54,981 Much sadder than the English words. 979 01:20:55,512 --> 01:21:01,396 "The German soldier knows he's going to lose his girl and his life." 980 01:21:04,813 --> 01:21:06,865 "The lantern burns every night." 981 01:21:06,982 --> 01:21:10,576 "It knows your steps and the way you walk." 982 01:21:12,529 --> 01:21:17,250 "It burns every night, but I've been long forgotten." 983 01:21:17,367 --> 01:21:20,131 "Should harm come to me, 984 01:21:20,245 --> 01:21:22,499 who will stand with you 985 01:21:23,248 --> 01:21:28,053 under the lantern with you, 986 01:21:28,169 --> 01:21:30,222 Lili Marleen." 987 01:21:31,464 --> 01:21:36,518 Mit dir Lili Marleen 988 01:21:37,762 --> 01:21:40,443 What is your life like in America? 989 01:21:40,557 --> 01:21:43,855 - Do you have a family? - Yes, I have a daughter, 990 01:21:43,977 --> 01:21:47,074 - and she has four children. - Four? 991 01:21:47,188 --> 01:21:51,697 - You must be very proud of them. - Yes, I am. I admit it. 992 01:21:51,818 --> 01:21:55,780 - And where's your wife? - She died a few years ago. 993 01:21:55,906 --> 01:21:57,958 Zigaretten? 994 01:21:59,117 --> 01:22:03,459 - How about you? Do you have children? - No, I don't. 995 01:22:04,205 --> 01:22:07,587 What is your position in America? It must be important. 996 01:22:07,709 --> 01:22:11,137 No, it isn't really. I'm a district court judge. 997 01:22:11,254 --> 01:22:13,840 I haven't even been that for the last year. 998 01:22:13,965 --> 01:22:18,188 - Are you retired? - Forcibly, by the electorate. 999 01:22:18,303 --> 01:22:21,352 You elect judges in the United States? 1000 01:22:21,473 --> 01:22:25,613 - Yes, in some states. - I didn't know that. 1001 01:22:25,727 --> 01:22:29,191 It's either a virtue or a defect of our judiciary system. 1002 01:22:29,314 --> 01:22:33,573 I thought it was one of the virtues until last year, when I was defeated. 1003 01:22:33,693 --> 01:22:36,956 I'm sure it was the fault of the electorate, not yours. 1004 01:22:37,072 --> 01:22:41,912 There seems to be some difference of opinion about that. 1005 01:22:43,745 --> 01:22:46,758 - This is where I live. - Here? 1006 01:22:46,873 --> 01:22:49,092 Yes. It's not so bad inside. 1007 01:22:49,209 --> 01:22:51,759 Would you like to come up? I could make some coffee. 1008 01:22:51,878 --> 01:22:53,930 Yes, thank you. 1009 01:23:11,314 --> 01:23:14,197 Things haven't been very easy for you, have they? 1010 01:23:14,317 --> 01:23:16,488 I'm not used to them being easy. 1011 01:23:16,611 --> 01:23:19,459 I'm not fragile, Judge Haywood. 1012 01:23:19,573 --> 01:23:21,993 I'm a daughter of the military. 1013 01:23:22,117 --> 01:23:26,293 - You know what that means, don't you? - No, I'm afraid I don't. 1014 01:23:26,413 --> 01:23:29,296 It means I was taught discipline. 1015 01:23:30,125 --> 01:23:32,296 A very special kind of discipline. 1016 01:23:32,419 --> 01:23:33,910 For instance, 1017 01:23:33,911 --> 01:23:37,011 as a child we would go for long rides into the country in the summer. 1018 01:23:37,132 --> 01:23:41,438 But I was never allowed to run to the lemonade stand with the others. 1019 01:23:41,553 --> 01:23:44,981 I was told "Control your thirst." 1020 01:23:46,016 --> 01:23:48,068 "Control hunger." 1021 01:23:48,935 --> 01:23:50,987 "Control emotion." 1022 01:23:51,104 --> 01:23:53,156 It has served me well. 1023 01:23:54,274 --> 01:23:58,035 And your husband? Was he of that heritage, too? 1024 01:23:58,153 --> 01:24:02,163 My husband was a soldier. He was brought up to do one thing... 1025 01:24:02,282 --> 01:24:05,461 to fight in the battle and fight well. 1026 01:24:07,954 --> 01:24:10,754 - Is the coffee all right? - Fine, thank you. 1027 01:24:10,874 --> 01:24:13,377 It's ersatz, but I always try to make it strong. 1028 01:24:13,501 --> 01:24:15,803 It's fine. 1029 01:24:20,717 --> 01:24:22,769 I'm curious. 1030 01:24:24,095 --> 01:24:27,061 What do you think of Ernst Janning? 1031 01:24:28,225 --> 01:24:33,907 Mrs Bertholt, I'm not at liberty to discuss the case outside of the courtroom. 1032 01:24:34,397 --> 01:24:36,449 Oh, yes. Of course. 1033 01:24:41,029 --> 01:24:45,869 I knew Ernst Janning a little. We used to attend the same concerts. 1034 01:24:45,992 --> 01:24:49,586 There was a reception given for Wagner's daughter-in-law. 1035 01:24:49,704 --> 01:24:51,674 Hitler was there. 1036 01:24:51,790 --> 01:24:54,969 Ernst Janning was there with his wife. 1037 01:24:55,085 --> 01:24:57,220 She was very beautiful. 1038 01:24:57,337 --> 01:24:59,674 Very small, very delicate. 1039 01:24:59,798 --> 01:25:01,933 She's dead now. 1040 01:25:02,592 --> 01:25:04,893 Hitler was quite taken with her. 1041 01:25:05,011 --> 01:25:07,692 He made advances towards her during the reception. 1042 01:25:07,806 --> 01:25:11,519 He used to do things like that in a burst of emotion. 1043 01:25:11,643 --> 01:25:15,024 I will never forget the way Ernst Janning cut him down. 1044 01:25:15,897 --> 01:25:18,448 I don't think anybody did it to him quite that way. 1045 01:25:18,567 --> 01:25:25,542 He said "Chancellor, I do not object so much that you are so ill-mannered." 1046 01:25:25,657 --> 01:25:28,872 "I do not object to that so much." 1047 01:25:28,994 --> 01:25:31,711 "I object that you are such a bourgeois." 1048 01:25:33,039 --> 01:25:37,465 Hitler whitened, stared at Janning and walked out. 1049 01:25:41,256 --> 01:25:43,759 Is the coffee really all right? 1050 01:25:43,883 --> 01:25:45,936 Fine, thank you. 1051 01:25:48,179 --> 01:25:53,103 Men like Janning, my husband and I, we hated Hitler. 1052 01:25:53,226 --> 01:25:57,319 I want you to know that. And he hated us. 1053 01:25:57,439 --> 01:26:00,867 He hated my husband because he was a real war hero, 1054 01:26:00,984 --> 01:26:03,784 and the little corporal couldn't tolerate that. 1055 01:26:03,904 --> 01:26:10,120 And he hated him because he married into nobility, which was my family. 1056 01:26:10,243 --> 01:26:14,466 Hitler was in awe of the nobility, but he hated it. 1057 01:26:15,457 --> 01:26:19,253 That's why it's so ironic, what happened. 1058 01:26:23,673 --> 01:26:25,809 You know what happened to my husband? 1059 01:26:25,926 --> 01:26:27,397 Yes. 1060 01:26:27,510 --> 01:26:31,568 What did he know of the crimes they cited him for? 1061 01:26:31,681 --> 01:26:35,359 He was placed on trial with the other military leaders. 1062 01:26:35,477 --> 01:26:41,195 He was part of the revenge the victors always take on the vanquished. 1063 01:26:41,316 --> 01:26:43,451 It was political murder. 1064 01:26:44,444 --> 01:26:47,659 You can see that, can't you? 1065 01:26:47,781 --> 01:26:51,127 Mrs Bertholt, I don't know what I see. 1066 01:26:52,577 --> 01:26:57,465 I probably shouldn't be here talking with you about this at all. 1067 01:26:57,582 --> 01:27:01,509 I want to understand. I do want to understand. 1068 01:27:02,504 --> 01:27:04,556 I have to. 1069 01:27:17,561 --> 01:27:20,491 Would you like some more coffee? 1070 01:27:20,605 --> 01:27:22,657 Yes, thank you. 1071 01:27:31,533 --> 01:27:33,917 - Hi. - Hi. 1072 01:27:37,747 --> 01:27:40,084 We found Irene Hoffman. 1073 01:27:41,251 --> 01:27:43,636 - Where? - Berlin. 1074 01:27:43,753 --> 01:27:45,177 Berlin, eh? 1075 01:27:45,297 --> 01:27:50,267 She got married. Her name is Wallner now. That's why we couldn't locate her. 1076 01:27:50,385 --> 01:27:53,398 - When is she coming? - She's not coming. 1077 01:27:53,513 --> 01:27:57,274 - What do you mean, she's not coming? - She doesn't want to come. 1078 01:27:57,392 --> 01:28:01,864 You know what it's like. None of them want to testify any more. 1079 01:28:01,980 --> 01:28:04,046 If I catch the midnight, 1080 01:28:04,047 --> 01:28:07,747 I can get to Berlin and be back by tomorrow afternoon. 1081 01:28:07,861 --> 01:28:11,242 - Tad, you haven't slept... - It will be worth it if I can get Hoffman. 1082 01:28:11,364 --> 01:28:14,710 Take over for me in court in the morning, will you? 1083 01:29:07,087 --> 01:29:11,429 Colonel, please. I have told you this before when you first came in. 1084 01:29:11,549 --> 01:29:15,393 I say it again now: we are through with all this. 1085 01:29:15,512 --> 01:29:18,395 She does not have to go. You have no right to order her to. 1086 01:29:18,682 --> 01:29:23,605 Mr Wallner, I'm not ordering her to go. I have no authority to do that. 1087 01:29:23,728 --> 01:29:26,861 Do you think we get a medal for appearing at these trials? 1088 01:29:26,982 --> 01:29:29,007 The people do not like them, 1089 01:29:29,008 --> 01:29:31,408 they do not want Germans to testify against Germans. 1090 01:29:31,528 --> 01:29:35,531 I haven't been prosecuting these cases 1091 01:29:35,532 --> 01:29:39,632 for the past two years without knowing that. 1092 01:29:45,250 --> 01:29:47,302 It is easy for you to say go. 1093 01:29:47,419 --> 01:29:51,215 After the trials you go back to America, but we must live with these people. 1094 01:29:51,339 --> 01:29:54,934 Mr Wallner, don't you think I realise what I'm asking? 1095 01:29:55,051 --> 01:29:57,103 How can you come in like the Gestapo... 1096 01:29:57,220 --> 01:30:01,147 Because they must not be allowed to get away with what they did! 1097 01:30:03,101 --> 01:30:07,277 Do you really think they won't get away with it in the end? 1098 01:30:09,608 --> 01:30:12,076 I say the hell with them and the hell with you. 1099 01:30:12,193 --> 01:30:14,080 Hugo. 1100 01:30:24,164 --> 01:30:26,845 Emil Hahn will be there? 1101 01:30:28,084 --> 01:30:30,588 Yes. In the dock. 1102 01:30:33,381 --> 01:30:35,433 Ernst Janning? 1103 01:30:37,010 --> 01:30:39,062 Yes. 1104 01:30:48,271 --> 01:30:50,822 You saw the store downstairs. 1105 01:30:53,568 --> 01:30:57,828 It's not much, but it's a new start for us. 1106 01:31:00,617 --> 01:31:03,582 They will come if I go to Nuremberg. 1107 01:31:06,248 --> 01:31:10,424 They will come and break the windows of the store. 1108 01:31:10,543 --> 01:31:13,427 I'll place a guard in front of the store 24 hours a day. 1109 01:31:13,546 --> 01:31:18,351 - You do not have to go, Irene... - Irene, you do have to go. 1110 01:31:18,468 --> 01:31:22,561 You have to go for all the people who can't get on the stand themselves. 1111 01:31:22,681 --> 01:31:26,904 - You do not owe it to anybody, Irene. - Yes, you do! 1112 01:31:28,436 --> 01:31:32,696 You owe it to one person at least. 1113 01:31:53,086 --> 01:31:55,222 In the night... 1114 01:31:55,338 --> 01:31:57,390 every night... 1115 01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:02,680 we've known somehow it would come to this. 1116 01:32:18,820 --> 01:32:22,332 Dr Geuter, do you recognise that headline? 1117 01:32:22,449 --> 01:32:23,706 Yes, sir. 1118 01:32:23,825 --> 01:32:26,376 Would you read it to the tribunal? 1119 01:32:26,494 --> 01:32:28,665 "Death to the race defiler." 1120 01:32:28,788 --> 01:32:33,794 - In what newspaper did it appear? - Julius Streicher's Der Stürmer. 1121 01:32:34,127 --> 01:32:37,176 What was it in connection with? 1122 01:32:37,297 --> 01:32:39,302 The Feldenstein case. 1123 01:32:39,424 --> 01:32:41,761 What was the Feldenstein case? 1124 01:32:41,885 --> 01:32:46,357 Your Honour! The defence objects to introduction of the Feldenstein case. 1125 01:32:46,473 --> 01:32:50,234 It is a notorious case, perhaps the most notorious of the period. 1126 01:32:50,352 --> 01:32:57,114 It has overtones and appeals to emotion that would perhaps be best not raised. 1127 01:32:58,276 --> 01:33:02,452 There are no issues or overtones that may not be raised in this courtroom. 1128 01:33:02,572 --> 01:33:09,501 The tribunal is interested in everything that is relevant. Objection is overruled. 1129 01:33:11,957 --> 01:33:14,425 It's all right. I'll take it. 1130 01:33:17,587 --> 01:33:20,802 - May it please the tribunal? - You may continue. 1131 01:33:20,924 --> 01:33:22,976 Thank you. 1132 01:33:31,184 --> 01:33:35,444 Now, what was the Feldenstein case? 1133 01:33:36,231 --> 01:33:40,074 The case of a man accused of racial pollution. 1134 01:33:40,193 --> 01:33:44,250 Will you explain what is meant by "racial pollution"? 1135 01:33:45,282 --> 01:33:50,454 This is the charge that is referred to in the Nuremberg laws. 1136 01:33:50,579 --> 01:33:57,044 Any non-Aryan having sexual relations with an Aryan may be punished by death. 1137 01:33:57,168 --> 01:34:01,807 When did you first become acquainted with the Feldenstein case? 1138 01:34:02,716 --> 01:34:06,856 In September 1935 I was contacted by the police. 1139 01:34:06,970 --> 01:34:10,233 They said that Mr Feldenstein was being held 1140 01:34:10,348 --> 01:34:14,690 and that he requested that I serve as his counsellor. 1141 01:34:14,811 --> 01:34:17,196 What position did he hold in the community? 1142 01:34:17,314 --> 01:34:19,994 He was a very well-known merchant. 1143 01:34:20,108 --> 01:34:24,498 He was one of the heads of the Jewish Congregation in Nuremberg. 1144 01:34:24,613 --> 01:34:28,409 What was the nature of the charge against him? 1145 01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,748 He was accused of having intimate relations 1146 01:34:32,871 --> 01:34:36,714 with a 16-year-old girl, Irene Hoffman. 1147 01:34:37,459 --> 01:34:39,962 I see. 1148 01:34:40,086 --> 01:34:44,097 And what did he say to you about the case? 1149 01:34:44,215 --> 01:34:46,102 He said it was false. 1150 01:34:46,217 --> 01:34:49,148 He said he knew the girl and her family a long time. 1151 01:34:49,262 --> 01:34:51,599 He'd gone to visit her since they died. 1152 01:34:51,723 --> 01:34:55,603 But there had never been anything of the kind charged between them. 1153 01:34:57,604 --> 01:35:02,574 Doctor, would you please tell the tribunal what happened then? 1154 01:35:03,568 --> 01:35:07,495 He was indicted before the special court at Nuremberg. 1155 01:35:07,614 --> 01:35:09,951 Where was this special court? 1156 01:35:10,075 --> 01:35:14,879 It was right here. This building. This very courtroom. 1157 01:35:14,996 --> 01:35:20,845 Dr Geuter, what were the circumstances surrounding the trial? 1158 01:35:22,796 --> 01:35:27,933 It was used as a showplace for National Socialism. 1159 01:35:29,219 --> 01:35:35,566 It was the time of the September celebrations, the Nuremberg rallies. 1160 01:35:35,684 --> 01:35:38,448 The courtroom was crowded. 1161 01:35:38,562 --> 01:35:41,741 Back there, people were standing up. 1162 01:35:42,732 --> 01:35:46,992 Julius Streicher was sitting in one of the front seats. 1163 01:35:47,112 --> 01:35:51,335 And high officials of the Nazi party were all over. 1164 01:35:51,449 --> 01:35:55,293 Doctor, would you please tell us 1165 01:35:55,412 --> 01:35:59,635 what were your expectations for the trial in this climate? 1166 01:35:59,749 --> 01:36:02,169 I expected the worst 1167 01:36:02,294 --> 01:36:07,680 when I saw that Emil Hahn was the public prosecutor. 1168 01:36:08,383 --> 01:36:10,435 He was a fanatic. 1169 01:36:10,552 --> 01:36:15,725 His trials were always marked by extreme brutality. 1170 01:36:18,310 --> 01:36:23,233 But I had one hope for the outcome, 1171 01:36:25,734 --> 01:36:31,084 because sitting on the judge's bench was Ernst Janning. 1172 01:36:32,449 --> 01:36:36,411 His reputation was known throughout Germany. 1173 01:36:36,536 --> 01:36:41,626 He was known to have dedicated his life to justice, 1174 01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:44,170 to the concept of justice. 1175 01:36:47,380 --> 01:36:49,432 Thank you. That's all. 1176 01:36:52,427 --> 01:36:54,479 Any questions? 1177 01:36:55,889 --> 01:36:58,108 Thank you. No questions. 1178 01:36:58,225 --> 01:37:00,277 The witness is excused. 1179 01:37:01,645 --> 01:37:07,327 The prosecution calls to the stand Irene Hoffman Wallner. 1180 01:37:31,466 --> 01:37:34,017 Will you raise your right hand? 1181 01:37:34,135 --> 01:37:36,022 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 1182 01:37:36,137 --> 01:37:39,270 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 1183 01:37:39,391 --> 01:37:41,443 I do. 1184 01:37:45,397 --> 01:37:48,611 Will you please state your name to the tribunal? 1185 01:37:51,570 --> 01:37:54,203 Irene Hoffman Wallner. 1186 01:37:54,322 --> 01:37:59,875 Mrs Wallner, did you know Lehman Feldenstein? 1187 01:38:00,495 --> 01:38:01,836 Yes. 1188 01:38:01,955 --> 01:38:04,589 When did you first meet him? 1189 01:38:04,708 --> 01:38:11,220 It was 1925 or 1926. I am not sure exactly. 1190 01:38:11,756 --> 01:38:16,146 - How old was he at this time? - He was in his fifties. 1191 01:38:16,261 --> 01:38:19,855 And how old was he at the time of his arrest? 1192 01:38:21,141 --> 01:38:25,151 - He was 65. - I see. 1193 01:38:26,396 --> 01:38:29,160 What was the nature of your relationship? 1194 01:38:31,109 --> 01:38:33,161 We were friends. 1195 01:38:33,945 --> 01:38:37,160 Did you continue to see him after your parents died? 1196 01:38:37,282 --> 01:38:40,829 - Yes. - Why? 1197 01:38:40,952 --> 01:38:47,335 We were friends. He owned the building that I lived in. 1198 01:38:48,209 --> 01:38:51,472 His business took him there quite often. 1199 01:38:52,464 --> 01:38:55,845 Now, what did you say to the police 1200 01:38:55,967 --> 01:39:00,772 when they questioned you about having intimate relations with him? 1201 01:39:02,057 --> 01:39:05,355 I told them it was a lie. 1202 01:39:05,477 --> 01:39:08,276 Could you tell me who the public prosecutor was? 1203 01:39:12,317 --> 01:39:14,903 Emil Hahn. 1204 01:39:15,028 --> 01:39:19,453 - Did Emil Hahn question you? - Yes. 1205 01:39:19,574 --> 01:39:21,626 What did he say to you? 1206 01:39:23,745 --> 01:39:28,466 He... took me into a separate room 1207 01:39:28,583 --> 01:39:31,715 where we were alone. 1208 01:39:31,836 --> 01:39:37,353 He told me that it was no use to repeat my story 1209 01:39:38,385 --> 01:39:41,315 because no one would believe me. 1210 01:39:42,639 --> 01:39:45,902 That there had been race defilement, 1211 01:39:46,017 --> 01:39:50,858 and the only pardon for this was to kill the violator. 1212 01:39:52,524 --> 01:39:59,950 He told me that if I protected Mr Feldenstein, 1213 01:40:00,907 --> 01:40:04,964 that I would be held under arrest for perjury. 1214 01:40:05,912 --> 01:40:08,332 What did you reply to him? 1215 01:40:08,456 --> 01:40:13,178 I told him what I had said, again and again. 1216 01:40:13,295 --> 01:40:17,518 I told him that I could not say anything else, 1217 01:40:17,632 --> 01:40:22,307 I could not lie about someone who had been so kind to me. 1218 01:40:22,429 --> 01:40:25,228 Were you held under arrest? 1219 01:40:26,224 --> 01:40:27,945 Yes. 1220 01:40:28,894 --> 01:40:30,946 Mrs Wallner, tell us, 1221 01:40:32,147 --> 01:40:38,957 what was the manner in which Emil Hahn conducted the prosecution? 1222 01:40:40,238 --> 01:40:45,791 He made a mockery 1223 01:40:45,911 --> 01:40:51,593 of everything Mr Feldenstein tried to say in his own defence. 1224 01:40:51,708 --> 01:40:57,177 He held him up to ridicule whenever possible. 1225 01:40:57,797 --> 01:41:00,681 What was the reaction of the audience? 1226 01:41:01,426 --> 01:41:05,768 They laughed again and again. 1227 01:41:07,265 --> 01:41:10,943 How long did the trial last? 1228 01:41:12,604 --> 01:41:15,072 Mrs Wallner? 1229 01:41:15,440 --> 01:41:17,777 How long did the trial last? 1230 01:41:19,861 --> 01:41:20,988 Two days. 1231 01:41:21,112 --> 01:41:24,956 Was the verdict passed at the end of the second day? 1232 01:41:25,075 --> 01:41:26,083 Yes. 1233 01:41:26,201 --> 01:41:29,962 - What was the verdict? - Guilty. 1234 01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:32,714 And what was the sentence? 1235 01:41:34,292 --> 01:41:39,382 Mr Feldenstein was sentenced to be executed. 1236 01:41:41,007 --> 01:41:45,598 I was sentenced to be in prison for two years for perjury. 1237 01:41:48,181 --> 01:41:51,859 Who was the presiding judge? 1238 01:41:53,270 --> 01:41:55,322 Ernst Janning. 1239 01:41:56,481 --> 01:41:59,245 Were the sentences carried out? 1240 01:42:04,906 --> 01:42:08,418 Thank you very much, Mrs Wallner. That's all. 1241 01:42:13,957 --> 01:42:16,009 Any questions? 1242 01:42:28,013 --> 01:42:34,313 Your Honour, I would like to request that the witness be kept available. 1243 01:42:34,436 --> 01:42:37,864 We will present further evidence on the Feldenstein matter 1244 01:42:37,981 --> 01:42:41,362 when it comes time for the defence to present its case. 1245 01:42:44,404 --> 01:42:48,580 The witness will please hold herself so available. 1246 01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:51,120 You may go. You're excused now. 1247 01:43:13,642 --> 01:43:15,694 Colonel Lawson. 1248 01:43:20,398 --> 01:43:25,867 Your Honours, I offer in evidence a decree, signed by Adolf Hitler, 1249 01:43:25,987 --> 01:43:29,998 directing that all persons accused or suspected of disloyalty 1250 01:43:30,116 --> 01:43:32,204 or resistance of any sort 1251 01:43:32,327 --> 01:43:34,712 might be arrested secretly, 1252 01:43:34,829 --> 01:43:39,052 with no notice to friends or relatives, without any trial whatsoever, 1253 01:43:39,167 --> 01:43:42,015 and put into concentration camps. 1254 01:43:42,128 --> 01:43:46,850 I also offer a group of orders issued under that decree, 1255 01:43:46,967 --> 01:43:50,430 each one signed by one of the defendants, 1256 01:43:50,554 --> 01:43:52,689 by which hundreds of persons were arrested 1257 01:43:52,806 --> 01:43:55,653 and placed in concentration camps. 1258 01:43:55,767 --> 01:43:59,314 Signed by Friedrich Hofstetter, 1259 01:43:59,437 --> 01:44:01,489 Werner Lampe, 1260 01:44:02,649 --> 01:44:04,701 Emil Hahn, 1261 01:44:05,569 --> 01:44:07,621 Ernst Janning. 1262 01:44:09,739 --> 01:44:14,995 Your Honours, the defendants on trial here today 1263 01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:19,925 did not personally administer the concentration camps. 1264 01:44:20,041 --> 01:44:23,007 They never had to beat victims, 1265 01:44:23,128 --> 01:44:26,889 or pull the lever that released gas into the chambers. 1266 01:44:27,966 --> 01:44:32,640 But as the documents we have introduced into this case have shown, 1267 01:44:32,762 --> 01:44:37,022 these defendants fashioned and executed laws, 1268 01:44:37,142 --> 01:44:39,526 and rendered judgments 1269 01:44:41,271 --> 01:44:46,444 which sent millions of victims to their destinations. 1270 01:44:46,568 --> 01:44:48,822 Major Radnitz. 1271 01:44:50,155 --> 01:44:51,676 Your Honours, 1272 01:44:51,677 --> 01:44:54,877 I would like to request that Colonel Lawson be sworn in as a witness. 1273 01:44:54,993 --> 01:44:57,045 - Granted. - Thank you. 1274 01:45:03,126 --> 01:45:04,763 Will you raise your right hand? 1275 01:45:04,878 --> 01:45:06,717 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 1276 01:45:06,838 --> 01:45:09,602 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 1277 01:45:09,716 --> 01:45:11,768 I do. 1278 01:45:14,012 --> 01:45:18,437 Were you active in the United States army in 1945 at the close of the war? 1279 01:45:18,558 --> 01:45:20,195 Yes, I was. 1280 01:45:20,310 --> 01:45:24,023 Were you in command of troops liberating concentration camps? 1281 01:45:24,147 --> 01:45:25,820 I was. 1282 01:45:25,941 --> 01:45:29,820 - Were you in Dachau and Belsen? - Yes. 1283 01:45:29,945 --> 01:45:33,124 Were you present when the films we are about to see were taken? 1284 01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:35,292 Yes, I was. 1285 01:46:02,727 --> 01:46:04,448 OK. 1286 01:46:12,362 --> 01:46:17,617 The map shows the number of and location of concentration camps 1287 01:46:18,743 --> 01:46:20,795 under the Third Reich. 1288 01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:27,763 Buchenwald concentration camp was founded in 1933. 1289 01:46:29,462 --> 01:46:32,559 Its inmates numbered about 80,000. 1290 01:46:34,968 --> 01:46:37,471 There was a motto at Buchenwald: 1291 01:46:37,971 --> 01:46:40,023 "Break the body, 1292 01:46:42,183 --> 01:46:44,817 break the spirit, 1293 01:46:46,897 --> 01:46:49,614 break the heart." 1294 01:46:50,942 --> 01:46:53,327 The ovens at Buchenwald, 1295 01:46:54,654 --> 01:46:59,708 evidence of last-minute efforts to dispose of bodies. 1296 01:46:59,826 --> 01:47:04,417 The stoves were manufactured by a well-known company 1297 01:47:04,539 --> 01:47:09,296 which also specialised in baking ovens. 1298 01:47:09,419 --> 01:47:12,765 The name of the firm is clearly inscribed. 1299 01:47:12,881 --> 01:47:16,761 An exhibit of by-products of Buchenwald, 1300 01:47:17,677 --> 01:47:22,933 displayed for the local townspeople by an Allied officer. 1301 01:47:23,391 --> 01:47:25,527 Brushes of every description. 1302 01:47:25,644 --> 01:47:29,357 Shoes... adults' and children's. 1303 01:47:30,607 --> 01:47:32,694 Spectacles. 1304 01:47:32,817 --> 01:47:34,905 Gold from teeth, melted down, 1305 01:47:35,028 --> 01:47:40,462 sent once a month to the medical department of the Waffen SS. 1306 01:47:40,575 --> 01:47:43,790 A lampshade made from human skin. 1307 01:47:46,206 --> 01:47:48,887 Skin being used for paintings, 1308 01:47:50,502 --> 01:47:53,183 many having an obscene nature. 1309 01:47:54,589 --> 01:47:57,722 The heads of two Polish labourers, 1310 01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:02,473 shrunken to one-fifth their normal size. 1311 01:48:02,597 --> 01:48:06,441 A human pelvis used as an ashtray. 1312 01:48:10,605 --> 01:48:16,905 Children who had been tattooed to mark them for eventual extermination. 1313 01:48:19,322 --> 01:48:22,870 Sometimes mercy was shown to the children. 1314 01:48:23,577 --> 01:48:25,961 They were injected with morphia 1315 01:48:26,079 --> 01:48:29,673 so they'd be unconscious when hanged. 1316 01:48:29,833 --> 01:48:34,424 One of the doctors described how they'd then place ropes around their necks, 1317 01:48:34,546 --> 01:48:37,049 and in the doctor's own words: 1318 01:48:37,173 --> 01:48:43,390 "Like pictures, they were then hanged by hooks on the walls." 1319 01:48:47,267 --> 01:48:50,945 The bodies of those who had come in boxcars, 1320 01:48:51,062 --> 01:48:53,743 without food and without air, 1321 01:48:53,857 --> 01:48:58,163 who hadn't survived the journey to Dachau. 1322 01:48:58,278 --> 01:49:00,959 Hundreds of inmates were used as human guinea pigs 1323 01:49:01,072 --> 01:49:04,833 for atrocious medical experiments. 1324 01:49:06,995 --> 01:49:12,879 A witness at an execution at Dachau gave the following description: 1325 01:49:14,002 --> 01:49:17,265 "Inmates were made to leave their clothing on a rack." 1326 01:49:17,839 --> 01:49:21,470 "They were told they were going to take baths." 1327 01:49:21,593 --> 01:49:24,606 "Then the doors were locked." 1328 01:49:24,721 --> 01:49:30,439 "Tins of Zyklon B were released through the specially constructed apertures." 1329 01:49:32,270 --> 01:49:37,241 "You could hear the groaning and the whimpering inside." 1330 01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:41,707 "After two or three minutes, all was quiet." 1331 01:49:50,038 --> 01:49:55,840 Death transports that had arrived included 90,000 from Slovakia, 1332 01:49:57,712 --> 01:50:00,477 65,000 from Greece, 1333 01:50:01,633 --> 01:50:04,053 11,000 from France, 1334 01:50:06,638 --> 01:50:08,892 90,000 from Holland, 1335 01:50:11,643 --> 01:50:13,980 400,000 from Hungary, 1336 01:50:16,606 --> 01:50:20,200 250,000 from Poland and Upper Silesia, 1337 01:50:22,237 --> 01:50:25,167 and 100,000 from Germany. 1338 01:50:28,618 --> 01:50:30,670 And this is what was filmed 1339 01:50:30,787 --> 01:50:34,844 when British troops liberated Belsen concentration camp. 1340 01:50:39,170 --> 01:50:43,892 For sanitary reasons a British bulldozer had to bury the bodies 1341 01:50:44,009 --> 01:50:46,061 as quickly as possible. 1342 01:50:52,684 --> 01:50:55,152 Who were the bodies? 1343 01:50:56,479 --> 01:51:00,406 Members of every occupied country of Europe. 1344 01:51:01,526 --> 01:51:06,995 Two-thirds of the Jews of Europe... exterminated. 1345 01:51:08,700 --> 01:51:10,752 More than six million, 1346 01:51:12,078 --> 01:51:16,669 according to reports from the Nazis' own figures. 1347 01:51:20,253 --> 01:51:22,305 But the real figure... 1348 01:51:27,302 --> 01:51:29,354 no one knows. 1349 01:51:36,102 --> 01:51:40,243 How dare they show us those films? How dare they? 1350 01:51:40,899 --> 01:51:44,493 We are not executioners! We are judges. 1351 01:51:44,611 --> 01:51:47,992 You do not think it was like that, do you? 1352 01:51:49,699 --> 01:51:53,412 There were executions, yes, but nothing like that. 1353 01:51:53,536 --> 01:51:55,589 Nothing at all! 1354 01:52:01,544 --> 01:52:03,182 Pohl! 1355 01:52:03,630 --> 01:52:05,682 Pohl! 1356 01:52:07,467 --> 01:52:12,106 You ran those concentration camps, you and Eichmann. 1357 01:52:12,931 --> 01:52:16,395 They say we killed millions of people. 1358 01:52:16,518 --> 01:52:18,487 Millions of people! 1359 01:52:18,603 --> 01:52:21,451 How could it be possible? 1360 01:52:21,565 --> 01:52:25,408 Tell them! How could it be possible? 1361 01:52:28,446 --> 01:52:30,498 It's possible. 1362 01:52:31,449 --> 01:52:33,419 How? 1363 01:52:33,535 --> 01:52:35,587 You mean technically? 1364 01:52:37,455 --> 01:52:40,220 It all depends on your facilities. 1365 01:52:40,333 --> 01:52:44,759 Say you have two chambers that accommodate 2,000 people apiece. 1366 01:52:44,879 --> 01:52:47,050 Figure it out. 1367 01:52:47,173 --> 01:52:51,765 It's possible to get rid of 10,000 in a half hour. 1368 01:52:51,887 --> 01:52:54,604 You don't even need guards to do it. 1369 01:52:54,723 --> 01:52:57,736 You can tell them they are going to take a shower, 1370 01:52:57,851 --> 01:53:02,074 and then instead of the water, you turn on the gas. 1371 01:53:02,772 --> 01:53:08,123 It's not the killing that is the problem. It's disposing of the bodies. 1372 01:53:08,236 --> 01:53:10,288 That's the problem. 1373 01:53:17,996 --> 01:53:21,259 Das ist schön 1374 01:53:21,374 --> 01:53:23,344 Wunderschön 1375 01:53:23,460 --> 01:53:25,512 Das tut gut 1376 01:53:25,629 --> 01:53:32,094 Was man alles im Liebesrausch tut 1377 01:53:32,469 --> 01:53:38,235 Und zur Nacht fliegt ein flüsterndes Fleh'n 1378 01:53:38,350 --> 01:53:45,776 "ach verweile, du bist ja so schön" 1379 01:53:45,982 --> 01:53:51,866 Doch die Liebe bleibt nur, wo sie ist 1380 01:53:51,988 --> 01:53:58,798 Wenn man immer aufs neue sich küsst 1381 01:53:58,912 --> 01:54:00,383 Und so lebt... 1382 01:54:00,497 --> 01:54:02,833 - I'm sorry I'm late. - That's all right. 1383 01:54:02,958 --> 01:54:07,383 I was doing some work for the rebuilding committee. 1384 01:54:08,338 --> 01:54:12,929 I brought you some folders so we can decide what you should see next. 1385 01:54:13,051 --> 01:54:16,479 There's the Albrecht Durer house. And the museum. 1386 01:54:16,596 --> 01:54:20,309 - When do you think you could make it? - Any time. 1387 01:54:20,433 --> 01:54:24,942 - Would you like to order now? - Can I help you with the menu? 1388 01:54:25,063 --> 01:54:27,613 I don't think I'll have anything, thank you. 1389 01:54:27,732 --> 01:54:30,034 A glass of Moselle, please. 1390 01:54:30,151 --> 01:54:32,203 Moselle. 1391 01:54:34,739 --> 01:54:36,791 What is the matter? 1392 01:54:36,908 --> 01:54:40,502 Nothing. I'm just not hungry, that's all. 1393 01:54:47,335 --> 01:54:49,387 You know... 1394 01:54:50,922 --> 01:54:54,185 the last few days have meant a great deal to me. 1395 01:54:54,301 --> 01:54:56,306 How? 1396 01:54:56,428 --> 01:55:01,482 I don't think you realise what a provincial man I really am. 1397 01:55:02,183 --> 01:55:06,360 I've been abroad just exactly once before this. 1398 01:55:06,479 --> 01:55:09,197 That was when I was a doughboy in World War I. 1399 01:55:09,316 --> 01:55:13,408 I used to pass places like this and wonder what they were like. 1400 01:55:13,528 --> 01:55:16,743 - They've meant a great deal to me, too. - How? 1401 01:55:16,865 --> 01:55:20,079 They gave me back the feeling I had of the Americans. 1402 01:55:20,201 --> 01:55:24,627 The feeling I used to have when I was in your country. 1403 01:55:27,500 --> 01:55:29,921 It's too bad this isn't a magazine story. 1404 01:55:30,045 --> 01:55:31,088 Why? 1405 01:55:31,212 --> 01:55:35,721 If it were, two people like us, the rapidly ageing jurist... 1406 01:55:35,842 --> 01:55:37,313 Oh, no. 1407 01:55:37,427 --> 01:55:41,058 The rapidly ageing jurist and the beautiful widow 1408 01:55:41,181 --> 01:55:48,026 would transcend their difficulties and travel places either by land or by sea. 1409 01:56:02,118 --> 01:56:04,289 I saw Mr Perkins today. 1410 01:56:04,412 --> 01:56:08,256 He told me they showed those pictures in the courtroom, 1411 01:56:08,375 --> 01:56:10,795 Colonel Lawson's favourite pictures. 1412 01:56:11,711 --> 01:56:14,760 He drags them out at any pretext, doesn't he? 1413 01:56:14,881 --> 01:56:18,179 Colonel Lawson's private chamber of horrors. 1414 01:56:21,263 --> 01:56:26,186 Is that what you think we are? Do you think we knew of those things? 1415 01:56:26,309 --> 01:56:30,735 Do you think we wanted to murder women and children? 1416 01:56:31,898 --> 01:56:35,410 Do you believe that? Do you? 1417 01:56:37,320 --> 01:56:40,951 Mrs Bertholt, I don't know what to believe. 1418 01:56:41,074 --> 01:56:44,871 Good God. We're sitting here drinking. 1419 01:56:44,995 --> 01:56:47,759 How could you think that we knew? 1420 01:56:47,914 --> 01:56:50,133 We did not know. 1421 01:56:50,250 --> 01:56:52,302 We did not know! 1422 01:56:54,379 --> 01:56:58,721 As far as I can make out, no one in this country knew. 1423 01:57:01,011 --> 01:57:05,187 Mrs Bertholt, your husband was one of the heads of the army. 1424 01:57:05,307 --> 01:57:08,190 And he did not know. I tell you, he did not know. 1425 01:57:08,310 --> 01:57:11,904 It was Himmler. It was Goebbels. The SS knew what happened. 1426 01:57:12,022 --> 01:57:13,861 We did not know. 1427 01:57:13,982 --> 01:57:18,454 Listen to me. There are things that happened on both sides. 1428 01:57:18,570 --> 01:57:21,868 My husband was a military man all his life. 1429 01:57:22,616 --> 01:57:25,878 He was entitled to a soldier's death. He asked for that. 1430 01:57:25,994 --> 01:57:30,300 I tried to get that for him. Just that, that he would die with some honour. 1431 01:57:30,415 --> 01:57:35,220 I went from official to official. I begged for that! 1432 01:57:35,337 --> 01:57:39,678 That he should be permitted the dignity of a firing squad. 1433 01:57:40,425 --> 01:57:42,477 You know what happened. 1434 01:57:43,803 --> 01:57:49,901 He was hanged with the others. And after that, I knew what it was to hate. 1435 01:57:50,018 --> 01:57:54,159 I never left the house. I never left the room. I drank. 1436 01:57:54,272 --> 01:58:00,536 I hated with every fibre of my being. I hated every American I've ever known. 1437 01:58:00,654 --> 01:58:04,165 But one can't live with hate. I know that. 1438 01:58:07,869 --> 01:58:10,254 Dan, 1439 01:58:10,372 --> 01:58:14,678 we have to forget if we are to go on living. 1440 01:58:16,711 --> 01:58:18,681 Du darfst auf mich bauen 1441 01:58:18,797 --> 01:58:21,929 Weißt ja, wie gut ich dir bin 1442 01:58:22,050 --> 01:58:26,012 Ja, ja, ja, ja 1443 01:58:26,137 --> 01:58:29,934 Weißt doch, wie gut ich dir bin. 1444 01:58:30,058 --> 01:58:34,115 Und, und, wenn in der Ferne 1445 01:58:34,229 --> 01:58:38,025 Dir, dir, mein Bild erscheint 1446 01:58:38,149 --> 01:58:41,697 Dann, dann, wünscht' so gerne 1447 01:58:41,820 --> 01:58:44,619 Dass uns die Liebe vereint 1448 01:59:03,258 --> 01:59:05,310 Herr Rolfe. 1449 01:59:25,780 --> 01:59:28,117 May it please the tribunal. 1450 01:59:33,455 --> 01:59:37,465 Yesterday the tribunal witnessed some films. 1451 01:59:38,710 --> 01:59:43,681 They were... shocking films. 1452 01:59:44,466 --> 01:59:46,518 Devastating films. 1453 01:59:48,136 --> 01:59:50,188 As a German, 1454 01:59:52,557 --> 01:59:58,441 I feel ashamed that such things could have taken place in my country. 1455 01:59:59,856 --> 02:00:04,696 There can never be a justification for them, 1456 02:00:04,819 --> 02:00:09,624 not in generations, not in centuries. 1457 02:00:13,495 --> 02:00:15,547 But... 1458 02:00:17,791 --> 02:00:21,255 I do think it was wrong, 1459 02:00:23,088 --> 02:00:25,140 indecent 1460 02:00:26,049 --> 02:00:29,846 and terribly unfair of the prosecution 1461 02:00:30,929 --> 02:00:37,988 to show such films in this case, in this court, at this time 1462 02:00:38,103 --> 02:00:40,867 against these defendants! 1463 02:00:40,981 --> 02:00:46,498 And I cannot protest too strongly against such tactics. 1464 02:00:54,035 --> 02:00:57,915 What is the prosecution trying to prove? 1465 02:00:58,039 --> 02:01:03,259 That the German people as a whole were responsible for these events? 1466 02:01:03,378 --> 02:01:06,308 Or that they were even aware of them? 1467 02:01:06,423 --> 02:01:08,759 Because, if he is, 1468 02:01:10,427 --> 02:01:12,728 he's not stating facts 1469 02:01:14,014 --> 02:01:16,648 and he knows he's not. 1470 02:01:19,269 --> 02:01:21,950 The secrecy of the operations, 1471 02:01:22,063 --> 02:01:24,649 the geographical location of the camps, 1472 02:01:24,774 --> 02:01:28,452 the breakdown of communications in the last days of the war 1473 02:01:28,570 --> 02:01:31,370 when the exterminations rose into the millions, 1474 02:01:31,489 --> 02:01:35,796 show only too clearly that he is not telling the truth. 1475 02:01:35,911 --> 02:01:42,839 The truth is that these brutalities were brought about by the few extremists. 1476 02:01:42,959 --> 02:01:45,011 The criminals. 1477 02:01:46,796 --> 02:01:50,011 Very few Germans knew what was going on. 1478 02:01:50,133 --> 02:01:52,185 Very few. 1479 02:01:53,220 --> 02:01:59,151 None of us knew what was happening in the places shown on these films. 1480 02:02:00,435 --> 02:02:02,487 None of us. 1481 02:02:08,068 --> 02:02:11,496 But the most ironic part of it 1482 02:02:11,613 --> 02:02:18,162 is that the prosecution showed these films against these defendants, 1483 02:02:18,286 --> 02:02:23,174 men who stayed in power for one reason only: 1484 02:02:23,291 --> 02:02:26,803 to prevent worse things from happening. 1485 02:02:27,712 --> 02:02:30,393 Who is the braver man? 1486 02:02:30,507 --> 02:02:34,647 The man who escapes or resigns in times of peril? 1487 02:02:35,512 --> 02:02:41,728 Or the man who stays on his post at the risk of his own personal safety? 1488 02:02:42,394 --> 02:02:46,700 The defence will present witnesses and letters and documents 1489 02:02:46,815 --> 02:02:49,365 from religious and political refugees all over the world 1490 02:02:49,484 --> 02:02:52,663 telling how Ernst Janning saved them from execution. 1491 02:02:52,779 --> 02:02:55,330 The defence will show the many times 1492 02:02:55,448 --> 02:02:58,497 Ernst Janning was able to effect mitigation of sentences, 1493 02:02:58,618 --> 02:03:03,542 when without his influence the results would have been much worse. 1494 02:03:03,665 --> 02:03:06,215 The defence will show 1495 02:03:06,334 --> 02:03:11,638 that Ernst Janning's personal physician was a non-Aryan. 1496 02:03:11,756 --> 02:03:17,273 A Jewish man who he kept in attendance, much to his own peril. 1497 02:03:21,224 --> 02:03:24,487 The defence presents affidavits 1498 02:03:24,603 --> 02:03:28,565 from legal authorities and famed jurists the world over, 1499 02:03:28,690 --> 02:03:32,866 pleading that special consideration must be made in this case, 1500 02:03:32,986 --> 02:03:39,249 saying that the entire work of Ernst Janning was inspired by one motive only: 1501 02:03:39,367 --> 02:03:44,754 the endeavour to preserve justice and the concept of justice. 1502 02:03:48,627 --> 02:03:56,848 Now, what has the prosecution to offer against this? 1503 02:03:57,886 --> 02:04:02,856 The prosecution, in fact, has presented in the case of Ernst Janning 1504 02:04:02,974 --> 02:04:05,988 only one tangible piece of evidence. 1505 02:04:06,102 --> 02:04:09,400 The Feldenstein case. A notorious case, as the defence said. 1506 02:04:09,522 --> 02:04:12,073 A case which never should have been reopened. 1507 02:04:12,192 --> 02:04:17,365 A case which the defence is obliged to review now. 1508 02:04:19,241 --> 02:04:21,874 The defence calls Mrs Elsa Lindnow. 1509 02:04:40,303 --> 02:04:42,605 Will you raise your right hand? 1510 02:04:42,722 --> 02:04:44,692 I swear by God the Almighty and Omniscient 1511 02:04:44,808 --> 02:04:48,022 that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing. 1512 02:04:48,144 --> 02:04:50,196 I do. 1513 02:04:53,441 --> 02:04:55,493 Mrs Lindnow. 1514 02:04:58,113 --> 02:05:00,332 What is your occupation? 1515 02:05:00,448 --> 02:05:02,500 I am a cleaning woman. 1516 02:05:02,993 --> 02:05:05,840 Where are you employed? 1517 02:05:05,954 --> 02:05:11,091 4... 345 Grosseplatz. 1518 02:05:11,209 --> 02:05:14,591 - Did you know Lehman Feldenstein? - Yes, I knew him. 1519 02:05:14,713 --> 02:05:20,312 - In what capacity? - He was my employer in 1935. 1520 02:05:20,427 --> 02:05:22,811 Do you know Mrs Irene Hoffman Wallner? 1521 02:05:22,929 --> 02:05:24,270 Yes. 1522 02:05:24,389 --> 02:05:29,110 - In what capacity? - She was a tenant in the building. 1523 02:05:29,227 --> 02:05:33,699 Did you ever see Miss Hoffman and Mr Feldenstein together? 1524 02:05:33,815 --> 02:05:37,327 - Yes. - How did this happen? 1525 02:05:37,444 --> 02:05:42,498 Mr Feldenstein came to see Miss Hoffman at her apartment. 1526 02:05:43,116 --> 02:05:46,462 - Often? - Quite often. 1527 02:05:46,578 --> 02:05:50,458 Were there any occasions in which you noticed anything unusual? 1528 02:05:50,582 --> 02:05:52,634 Yes. 1529 02:05:52,751 --> 02:05:57,500 I saw Miss Hoffman kissing Mr Feldenstein 1530 02:05:57,501 --> 02:05:59,301 at the door of her apartment. 1531 02:05:59,424 --> 02:06:04,229 - Was there any other occasion? - Yes. There was one. 1532 02:06:04,346 --> 02:06:08,985 - What was it? - I came to Miss Hoffman's apartment. 1533 02:06:09,100 --> 02:06:13,609 I wanted to clean up. I thought it was empty. 1534 02:06:14,898 --> 02:06:20,865 I saw Miss Hoffman sitting on Mr Feldenstein's lap. 1535 02:06:20,987 --> 02:06:24,285 Thank you, Mrs Lindnow. That's all. 1536 02:06:26,618 --> 02:06:28,670 Colonel Lawson? 1537 02:06:33,959 --> 02:06:36,094 Earphones, please. 1538 02:06:38,797 --> 02:06:43,436 Mrs Lindnow, what are your political affiliations? 1539 02:06:45,679 --> 02:06:47,102 Political? 1540 02:06:47,222 --> 02:06:49,357 Objection, Your Honour. 1541 02:06:51,059 --> 02:06:55,152 This witness' political affiliations have nothing to do with the testimony. 1542 02:06:55,272 --> 02:07:00,278 Colonel Lawson is again trying to appeal to the emotion of the court. 1543 02:07:00,402 --> 02:07:02,454 Objection overruled. 1544 02:07:02,571 --> 02:07:04,955 Now would you answer the question, please? 1545 02:07:05,073 --> 02:07:09,083 Were you a member of the National Socialist party? 1546 02:07:09,202 --> 02:07:11,883 Yes, I was. 1547 02:07:13,456 --> 02:07:15,462 We were forced to be. 1548 02:07:15,584 --> 02:07:17,920 "We were forced to be." 1549 02:07:18,962 --> 02:07:21,845 When did you become a member of the Nazi party? 1550 02:07:24,092 --> 02:07:27,520 1933. 1551 02:07:27,637 --> 02:07:34,269 Were all German nationals forced to become Nazi party members in 1933? 1552 02:07:35,395 --> 02:07:37,696 Please answer me, Mrs Lindnow! 1553 02:07:37,814 --> 02:07:42,239 Were you forced to become a member of the Nazi party? 1554 02:07:45,822 --> 02:07:47,661 That's all. 1555 02:07:48,950 --> 02:07:51,002 Witness is excused. 1556 02:08:06,968 --> 02:08:09,020 Defence may continue. 1557 02:08:16,645 --> 02:08:21,401 The defence calls Irene Hoffman Wallner to the stand. 1558 02:08:37,290 --> 02:08:39,342 Mrs Wallner, 1559 02:08:41,753 --> 02:08:43,889 you are still under oath. 1560 02:08:45,632 --> 02:08:48,681 Mrs Wallner, did you come here voluntarily? 1561 02:08:49,302 --> 02:08:52,600 Did you report voluntarily to speak as a witness? 1562 02:08:52,722 --> 02:08:54,774 Yes. 1563 02:08:55,850 --> 02:08:59,362 Is it not true that the prosecution asked you to come here? 1564 02:09:00,021 --> 02:09:03,616 That it was very disagreeable for you to come here? 1565 02:09:03,733 --> 02:09:07,874 It is always very disagreeable to live over those times. 1566 02:09:09,406 --> 02:09:12,704 That would be in agreement with the information I have, 1567 02:09:12,826 --> 02:09:16,373 that you did not want to come. Thank you, Mrs Wallner. 1568 02:09:16,538 --> 02:09:18,590 Mrs Wallner, 1569 02:09:21,126 --> 02:09:25,385 the Nuremberg laws were stated September 15th, 1935. 1570 02:09:26,172 --> 02:09:28,972 - Where were you at that time? - In Nuremberg. 1571 02:09:29,092 --> 02:09:31,144 Did you know these laws? 1572 02:09:31,261 --> 02:09:36,350 That a physical relationship with Jews was against the law? 1573 02:09:36,474 --> 02:09:37,483 Yes. 1574 02:09:37,601 --> 02:09:42,524 Were you aware that in Nuremberg, and in Nuremberg in particular, 1575 02:09:42,647 --> 02:09:46,071 not only a physical relationship with Jews was disdained, 1576 02:09:46,072 --> 02:09:47,572 but every social contact? 1577 02:09:47,694 --> 02:09:49,450 Yes. 1578 02:09:49,571 --> 02:09:53,451 Were you aware that it might have some danger for you personally? 1579 02:09:53,575 --> 02:09:55,710 Yes, I was aware of it. 1580 02:09:55,827 --> 02:10:00,217 But how can you discard a friendship from day to day because of some... 1581 02:10:00,332 --> 02:10:05,682 That is another question, Mrs Wallner. I did not ask you that question. 1582 02:10:05,795 --> 02:10:09,592 - Were you aware of it? - Yes, I was aware. 1583 02:10:09,716 --> 02:10:12,397 Yet you still continued to see each other? 1584 02:10:12,510 --> 02:10:14,563 Yes. 1585 02:10:15,847 --> 02:10:21,102 It was brought out that Mr Feldenstein bought you candy and cigarettes. 1586 02:10:21,228 --> 02:10:22,236 Yes. 1587 02:10:22,354 --> 02:10:25,533 Remember that sometimes he bought you flowers? 1588 02:10:25,649 --> 02:10:28,662 Yes, he bought me many things. 1589 02:10:28,777 --> 02:10:30,912 That was because he was kind. 1590 02:10:31,863 --> 02:10:34,960 He was the kindest man I ever knew. 1591 02:10:37,535 --> 02:10:40,798 Do you know the witness, Mrs Elsa Lindnow? 1592 02:10:40,914 --> 02:10:42,421 Yes, I know her. 1593 02:10:42,540 --> 02:10:45,755 - Was she a cleaner at your apartment? - Yes. 1594 02:10:45,877 --> 02:10:48,926 Did Mr Feldenstein come to see you at your apartment? 1595 02:10:49,047 --> 02:10:51,728 - Yes. - How many times? 1596 02:10:53,260 --> 02:10:55,940 I don't remember. 1597 02:10:56,054 --> 02:10:58,937 - Several times? - Yes. 1598 02:10:59,057 --> 02:11:01,738 - Many times? - Many times. 1599 02:11:01,851 --> 02:11:04,437 - Did you kiss him? - Yes, I kissed him. 1600 02:11:04,563 --> 02:11:07,611 Was there more than one kiss? 1601 02:11:07,732 --> 02:11:10,200 Yes. 1602 02:11:10,318 --> 02:11:15,206 But it was not in the way you are trying to make it sound. 1603 02:11:15,323 --> 02:11:20,461 He was like a father to me. He was more than a father. 1604 02:11:20,579 --> 02:11:23,544 More than a father?! Did you sit on his lap? 1605 02:11:23,665 --> 02:11:26,513 Objection! Counsel is persecuting the witness 1606 02:11:26,626 --> 02:11:28,678 in the pretext of gaining testimony. 1607 02:11:30,005 --> 02:11:31,595 Objection overruled. 1608 02:11:31,715 --> 02:11:36,804 The defence is re-enacting what was a travesty of justice in the first place. 1609 02:11:36,928 --> 02:11:42,445 Colonel Lawson, the tribunal makes the rulings in this case, not the prosecution. 1610 02:11:42,559 --> 02:11:45,109 - You may proceed. - Did you sit on his lap? 1611 02:11:46,021 --> 02:11:52,237 Yes. But there was nothing wrong or ugly about it. 1612 02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:54,911 Did you sit on his lap? 1613 02:11:55,030 --> 02:11:56,620 Yes. But... 1614 02:11:56,740 --> 02:11:59,374 You sat on his lap! What else did you do? 1615 02:12:01,411 --> 02:12:05,468 There was nothing that you are trying to say, nothing like that. 1616 02:12:05,582 --> 02:12:08,465 What else did you do, Mrs Wallner? 1617 02:12:09,169 --> 02:12:11,304 What are you trying to do? 1618 02:12:13,048 --> 02:12:15,100 Are you trying to... 1619 02:12:17,469 --> 02:12:21,859 Why do you not let me speak the truth? 1620 02:12:21,973 --> 02:12:25,651 That's what we want, Mrs Wallner, the truth. The truth! 1621 02:12:25,769 --> 02:12:28,023 You admitted that you continued to see him. 1622 02:12:28,146 --> 02:12:30,697 You admitted that he came to your apartment. 1623 02:12:30,815 --> 02:12:34,410 You admitted you kissed him. You admitted you sat on his lap. 1624 02:12:34,527 --> 02:12:36,948 What else do you admit to? What else? 1625 02:12:37,072 --> 02:12:42,042 Nothing! There was nothing like you're trying to make it sound. 1626 02:12:42,160 --> 02:12:47,084 - What else? - There was nothing! Nothing. 1627 02:12:47,207 --> 02:12:49,129 Stop it! 1628 02:12:49,251 --> 02:12:50,378 Stop it! 1629 02:12:50,502 --> 02:12:52,886 What else do you admit to, Mrs Wallner? 1630 02:12:53,004 --> 02:12:55,056 Herr Rolfe! 1631 02:12:59,302 --> 02:13:01,354 Are we going to do this again? 1632 02:13:06,935 --> 02:13:12,986 Your Honour, the defendant has been under such stress that he is not aware... 1633 02:13:13,108 --> 02:13:16,821 I am aware. I am aware. 1634 02:13:16,945 --> 02:13:19,495 Your Honour, the defendant wishes to make a statement. 1635 02:13:19,614 --> 02:13:23,245 - I believe the defence has a right to... - Order, order. 1636 02:13:23,368 --> 02:13:25,420 Order! 1637 02:13:28,623 --> 02:13:31,553 Does the defendant wish to make a statement? 1638 02:13:31,668 --> 02:13:34,931 I wish to make a statement, yes. 1639 02:13:35,839 --> 02:13:38,603 Your Honour, the defence has the right to request... 1640 02:13:38,717 --> 02:13:41,730 The defendant has the right to make his statement now. 1641 02:13:41,845 --> 02:13:47,065 - I have to speak with my client. - He has the right to make it now! 1642 02:13:56,943 --> 02:14:00,158 Tribunal is adjourned until 10:30 tomorrow morning. 1643 02:14:05,035 --> 02:14:07,585 What are you doing? 1644 02:14:07,704 --> 02:14:10,967 What do you think you're trying to do? 1645 02:14:11,082 --> 02:14:16,006 They've had Göring, Frank, Streicher... That's over. 1646 02:14:16,796 --> 02:14:21,471 Do you think I have enjoyed being defence counsel during this trial? 1647 02:14:21,593 --> 02:14:25,306 There were things I had to do in that courtroom that made me cringe. 1648 02:14:25,430 --> 02:14:27,649 Why did I do them? 1649 02:14:27,766 --> 02:14:30,731 Because I want to leave the German people something. 1650 02:14:30,852 --> 02:14:33,237 I want to leave them a shred of dignity. 1651 02:14:33,355 --> 02:14:36,119 I want to call a halt to these proceedings. 1652 02:14:36,233 --> 02:14:39,365 If we allow them to discredit every German like you, 1653 02:14:39,486 --> 02:14:43,282 we lose the right to rule ourselves forever! 1654 02:14:43,865 --> 02:14:47,459 We have to look at the future. We can't look back now. 1655 02:14:47,577 --> 02:14:50,507 Do you want the Americans to stay here forever? 1656 02:14:50,622 --> 02:14:54,418 I could show you a picture of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 1657 02:14:54,542 --> 02:14:57,046 Thousands and thousands of burnt bodies. 1658 02:14:57,170 --> 02:14:59,222 Women and children. 1659 02:15:00,257 --> 02:15:03,603 Is that their superior morality? 1660 02:15:03,718 --> 02:15:06,103 Where do you think they take us? Do they know? 1661 02:15:06,221 --> 02:15:10,563 Do you think they have any concept of our problems? 1662 02:15:14,563 --> 02:15:16,698 What can I say to you? 1663 02:15:18,108 --> 02:15:21,157 What can I say to you to make you see? 1664 02:15:27,784 --> 02:15:30,916 There is nothing you can say. 1665 02:15:32,706 --> 02:15:33,714 Nothing. 1666 02:15:33,832 --> 02:15:37,046 Nothing has happened to alleviate the crisis. 1667 02:15:37,168 --> 02:15:39,256 The crisis reached a head this afternoon 1668 02:15:39,379 --> 02:15:42,926 when all rail travel between western zones and Berlin was stopped. 1669 02:15:43,049 --> 02:15:46,229 The blockade by land is now complete. 1670 02:15:52,851 --> 02:15:56,564 What do you think we're going to do, General? Withdraw? 1671 02:15:56,688 --> 02:15:59,322 We can't. If we withdraw under pressure, 1672 02:15:59,441 --> 02:16:01,861 our prestige all over the world is threatened. 1673 02:16:01,985 --> 02:16:04,370 The Communists will move in on every front. 1674 02:16:04,487 --> 02:16:09,956 What about these trials, General? How do you feel about them now? 1675 02:16:10,076 --> 02:16:12,461 We're committed to the trials, 1676 02:16:12,579 --> 02:16:16,459 but I think it would be realistic to accelerate them as much as possible. 1677 02:16:16,583 --> 02:16:20,177 What would happen if they fired on one of our planes, General? 1678 02:16:20,295 --> 02:16:24,804 We'll have to face that when it happens. There is no other answer to that now. 1679 02:16:28,220 --> 02:16:30,900 You should try the strudel. It's excellent here. 1680 02:16:31,014 --> 02:16:33,019 No, thanks. 1681 02:16:33,141 --> 02:16:37,282 Dan, I've just come back from Berlin, as you know. 1682 02:16:37,395 --> 02:16:41,821 I don't think this is going to be it. A lot of people do, but I don't. 1683 02:16:41,942 --> 02:16:45,226 But it is going to be a fight for survival... 1684 02:16:45,227 --> 02:16:47,827 for the next ten years, maybe the next 20. 1685 02:16:47,948 --> 02:16:50,284 Germany is the key to that survival. 1686 02:16:50,408 --> 02:16:54,999 Any high-school student in geography can tell you that. 1687 02:16:55,121 --> 02:16:57,921 Just what are you trying to say, Senator? 1688 02:16:58,041 --> 02:17:00,461 What I'm trying to say is this: 1689 02:17:00,585 --> 02:17:04,263 while nobody's trying to influence your decision, 1690 02:17:04,381 --> 02:17:08,391 it's important that you realise this because it's a fact of life. 1691 02:17:08,510 --> 02:17:13,018 Let's face it, gentlemen, the handwriting is on the wall. 1692 02:17:13,139 --> 02:17:15,608 We're going to need all the help we can get. 1693 02:17:15,725 --> 02:17:20,234 We're going to need the support of the German people. 1694 02:17:20,355 --> 02:17:22,609 More strudel, gentlemen? 1695 02:17:26,820 --> 02:17:29,288 Herr Janning, you may proceed. 1696 02:17:34,327 --> 02:17:38,254 I wish to testify about the Feldenstein case 1697 02:17:39,457 --> 02:17:44,630 because it was the most significant trial of the period. 1698 02:17:44,754 --> 02:17:50,058 It is important not only for the tribunal to understand it, 1699 02:17:50,176 --> 02:17:52,941 but for the whole German people. 1700 02:17:53,805 --> 02:17:56,356 But in order to understand it, 1701 02:17:56,558 --> 02:18:01,113 one must understand the period in which it happened. 1702 02:18:02,147 --> 02:18:04,864 There was a fever over the land. 1703 02:18:04,983 --> 02:18:09,574 A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. 1704 02:18:10,739 --> 02:18:13,325 We had a democracy, yes, 1705 02:18:13,450 --> 02:18:16,415 but it was torn by elements within. 1706 02:18:17,037 --> 02:18:20,667 Above all, there was fear. 1707 02:18:20,790 --> 02:18:24,503 Fear of today, fear of tomorrow, 1708 02:18:24,628 --> 02:18:26,715 fear of our neighbours, 1709 02:18:26,838 --> 02:18:29,686 and fear of ourselves. 1710 02:18:31,051 --> 02:18:33,554 Only when you understand that 1711 02:18:33,678 --> 02:18:37,107 can you understand what Hitler meant to us. 1712 02:18:37,224 --> 02:18:39,276 Because he said to us: 1713 02:18:40,644 --> 02:18:44,950 "Lift your heads. Be proud to be German." 1714 02:18:45,065 --> 02:18:50,071 "There are devils among us... communists, liberals, Jews, Gypsies." 1715 02:18:50,195 --> 02:18:56,495 "Once these devils will be destroyed, your misery will be destroyed." 1716 02:18:56,618 --> 02:19:01,588 It was the old, old story of the sacrificial lamb. 1717 02:19:05,627 --> 02:19:08,047 What about those of us who knew better? 1718 02:19:08,171 --> 02:19:12,478 We who knew the words were lies and worse than lies? 1719 02:19:12,592 --> 02:19:16,685 Why did we sit silent? Why did we take part? 1720 02:19:18,223 --> 02:19:20,773 Because we loved our country. 1721 02:19:21,977 --> 02:19:27,196 What difference does it make if a few political extremists lose their rights? 1722 02:19:27,315 --> 02:19:31,871 What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights? 1723 02:19:31,987 --> 02:19:34,074 It is only a passing phase. 1724 02:19:34,197 --> 02:19:36,582 It is only a stage we are going through. 1725 02:19:36,700 --> 02:19:38,954 It will be discarded sooner or later. 1726 02:19:39,077 --> 02:19:43,419 Hitler himself will be discarded sooner or later. 1727 02:19:43,623 --> 02:19:46,838 "The country is in danger! We will march out of the shadows." 1728 02:19:46,960 --> 02:19:51,717 "We will go forward." "Forward" is the great password. 1729 02:19:54,509 --> 02:19:59,231 And history tells how well we succeeded, Your Honour. 1730 02:20:00,557 --> 02:20:03,985 We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. 1731 02:20:04,102 --> 02:20:09,536 The very elements of hate and power about Hitler that mesmerised Germany, 1732 02:20:09,649 --> 02:20:11,868 mesmerised the world! 1733 02:20:11,985 --> 02:20:15,579 We found ourselves with sudden powerful allies. 1734 02:20:15,697 --> 02:20:21,131 Things that had been denied to us as a democracy were open to us now. 1735 02:20:21,244 --> 02:20:25,835 The world said "Go ahead. Take it. Take it!" 1736 02:20:25,957 --> 02:20:29,837 "Take Sudetenland. Take the Rhineland. Remilitarise it." 1737 02:20:29,961 --> 02:20:32,429 "Take all of Austria! Take it." 1738 02:20:35,634 --> 02:20:39,395 And then one day we looked around 1739 02:20:39,512 --> 02:20:43,143 and found that we were in an even more terrible danger. 1740 02:20:43,266 --> 02:20:45,651 The ritual began in this courtroom, 1741 02:20:45,769 --> 02:20:50,324 swept over the land like a raging, roaring disease! 1742 02:20:50,440 --> 02:20:54,034 What was going to be a passing phase 1743 02:20:55,695 --> 02:20:57,950 had become the way of life. 1744 02:21:03,495 --> 02:21:05,547 Your Honour, 1745 02:21:06,915 --> 02:21:12,004 I was content to sit silent during this trial. 1746 02:21:13,296 --> 02:21:17,140 I was content to tend my roses. 1747 02:21:18,969 --> 02:21:24,486 I was even content to let counsel try to save my name... 1748 02:21:26,309 --> 02:21:30,532 until I realised that in order to save it 1749 02:21:31,606 --> 02:21:35,118 he would have to raise the spectre again. 1750 02:21:37,529 --> 02:21:39,664 You have seen him do it. 1751 02:21:39,781 --> 02:21:42,711 He has done it here in this courtroom. 1752 02:21:42,826 --> 02:21:47,749 He has suggested that the Third Reich worked for the benefit of people. 1753 02:21:47,872 --> 02:21:53,341 He has suggested that we sterilised men for the welfare of the country. 1754 02:21:53,461 --> 02:21:56,254 He suggested that perhaps 1755 02:21:56,255 --> 02:22:00,355 the old Jew did sleep with the 16-year-old girl after all. 1756 02:22:00,468 --> 02:22:07,444 Once more, it is being done for love of country. 1757 02:22:10,061 --> 02:22:14,202 It is not easy to tell the truth. 1758 02:22:15,942 --> 02:22:20,118 But if there is to be any salvation for Germany, 1759 02:22:20,238 --> 02:22:23,999 we who know our guilt must admit it, 1760 02:22:24,117 --> 02:22:29,005 whatever the pain and humiliation. 1761 02:22:34,753 --> 02:22:40,471 I had reached my verdict on the Feldenstein case 1762 02:22:40,592 --> 02:22:43,142 before I ever came into the courtroom. 1763 02:22:43,261 --> 02:22:47,770 I would have found him guilty whatever the evidence. It was not a trial at all. 1764 02:22:47,891 --> 02:22:49,861 It was a sacrificial ritual, 1765 02:22:49,862 --> 02:22:52,862 and Feldenstein the Jew was the helpless victim. 1766 02:22:52,979 --> 02:22:57,535 Your Honour, the defendant is not aware of what he is saying. 1767 02:22:57,651 --> 02:22:59,703 He is not aware of the implications. 1768 02:22:59,819 --> 02:23:02,500 I am aware. I am aware! 1769 02:23:04,407 --> 02:23:06,875 My counsel would have you believe 1770 02:23:06,993 --> 02:23:11,086 we were not aware of the concentration camps. 1771 02:23:11,206 --> 02:23:13,756 Not aware. 1772 02:23:13,875 --> 02:23:15,714 Where were we? 1773 02:23:15,835 --> 02:23:19,715 Where were we when Hitler began shrieking his hate in the Reichstag? 1774 02:23:19,839 --> 02:23:24,229 When our neighbours were dragged out in the middle of the night to Dachau? 1775 02:23:24,344 --> 02:23:27,725 Where were we when every village in Germany has a railroad terminal 1776 02:23:27,847 --> 02:23:30,082 where cattle cars 1777 02:23:30,083 --> 02:23:33,483 were filled with children being carried off to their extermination? 1778 02:23:33,603 --> 02:23:36,700 Where were we when they cried out in the night to us? 1779 02:23:36,815 --> 02:23:40,029 Were we deaf? Dumb? Blind? 1780 02:23:40,151 --> 02:23:42,073 Your Honour, I must protest. 1781 02:23:42,195 --> 02:23:47,794 My counsel says we were not aware of the extermination of the millions. 1782 02:23:47,909 --> 02:23:50,210 He would give you the excuse 1783 02:23:50,328 --> 02:23:55,169 we were only aware of the extermination of the hundreds. 1784 02:23:55,959 --> 02:23:59,138 Does that make us any the less guilty? 1785 02:24:00,547 --> 02:24:03,050 Maybe we didn't know the details, 1786 02:24:03,174 --> 02:24:07,931 but if we didn't know, it was because we didn't want to know. 1787 02:24:08,054 --> 02:24:12,147 - Traitor! Traitor! - Order. Order. 1788 02:24:12,726 --> 02:24:14,695 Order! 1789 02:24:14,811 --> 02:24:18,109 Put that man back in his seat and keep him there. 1790 02:24:22,193 --> 02:24:24,958 I am going to tell them the truth. 1791 02:24:25,864 --> 02:24:31,499 I am going to tell them the truth if the whole world conspires against it. 1792 02:24:31,620 --> 02:24:37,219 I am going to tell them the truth about their Ministry of Justice. 1793 02:24:38,793 --> 02:24:43,764 Werner Lampe, an old man who cries into his Bible now. 1794 02:24:44,382 --> 02:24:47,431 An old man who profited by the property expropriation 1795 02:24:47,552 --> 02:24:51,230 of every man he sent to a concentration camp. 1796 02:24:51,348 --> 02:24:56,603 Friedrich Hofstetter, the good German, who knew how to take orders, 1797 02:24:56,728 --> 02:25:01,983 who sent men before him to be sterilised, like so many digits. 1798 02:25:04,110 --> 02:25:06,614 Emil Hahn, 1799 02:25:06,738 --> 02:25:09,787 the decayed, corrupt bigot, 1800 02:25:09,908 --> 02:25:13,087 obsessed by the evil within himself. 1801 02:25:18,291 --> 02:25:20,343 And Ernst Janning, 1802 02:25:22,379 --> 02:25:24,633 worse than any of them... 1803 02:25:25,465 --> 02:25:28,644 because he knew what they were, 1804 02:25:28,760 --> 02:25:31,097 and he went along with them. 1805 02:25:34,140 --> 02:25:38,233 Ernst Janning, who made his life... 1806 02:25:40,730 --> 02:25:42,782 excrement... 1807 02:25:44,568 --> 02:25:47,036 because he walked with them. 1808 02:27:13,323 --> 02:27:15,375 Your Honour, 1809 02:27:16,701 --> 02:27:21,506 it is my duty to defend Ernst Janning, 1810 02:27:22,582 --> 02:27:26,924 and yet Ernst Janning has said he is guilty. 1811 02:27:27,045 --> 02:27:31,221 There is no doubt he feels his guilt. 1812 02:27:32,926 --> 02:27:37,565 He made a great error in going along with the Nazi movement, 1813 02:27:38,181 --> 02:27:41,278 hoping it would be good for his country. 1814 02:27:41,393 --> 02:27:45,320 But, if he is to be found guilty, 1815 02:27:46,523 --> 02:27:50,782 there are others who also went along, 1816 02:27:51,861 --> 02:27:54,412 who also must be found guilty. 1817 02:27:56,199 --> 02:28:01,586 Ernst Janning said "We succeeded beyond our wildest dreams". 1818 02:28:03,582 --> 02:28:07,176 Why did we succeed, Your Honour? 1819 02:28:08,920 --> 02:28:11,684 What about the rest of the world? 1820 02:28:13,174 --> 02:28:17,351 Did it not know the intentions of the Third Reich? 1821 02:28:17,470 --> 02:28:22,359 Did it not hear the words of Hitler broadcast all over the world? 1822 02:28:22,475 --> 02:28:24,896 Did it not read his intentions in Mein Kampf, 1823 02:28:25,020 --> 02:28:28,234 published in every corner of the world? 1824 02:28:28,857 --> 02:28:32,155 Where is the responsibility of the Soviet Union, 1825 02:28:32,277 --> 02:28:38,375 who signed in 1939 the pact with Hitler that enabled him to make war? 1826 02:28:39,659 --> 02:28:42,423 Are we now to find Russia guilty? 1827 02:28:43,663 --> 02:28:47,045 Where is the responsibility of the Vatican, 1828 02:28:47,167 --> 02:28:50,631 who signed in 1933 the concordat with Hitler, 1829 02:28:50,754 --> 02:28:54,467 giving him his first tremendous prestige? 1830 02:28:55,216 --> 02:28:58,396 Are we now to find the Vatican guilty? 1831 02:28:59,721 --> 02:29:03,067 Where is the responsibility of the world leader Winston Churchill, 1832 02:29:03,183 --> 02:29:06,979 who said in an open letter to the London Times in 1938... 1833 02:29:07,103 --> 02:29:10,651 1938, Your Honour... 1834 02:29:11,733 --> 02:29:15,115 "Were England to suffer national disaster, I should pray to God 1835 02:29:15,237 --> 02:29:19,745 to send a man of the strength of mind and will of an Adolf Hitler." 1836 02:29:19,866 --> 02:29:23,045 Are we now to find Winston Churchill guilty? 1837 02:29:23,161 --> 02:29:26,507 Where is the responsibility of those American industrialists 1838 02:29:26,623 --> 02:29:29,304 who helped Hitler to rebuild his armaments, 1839 02:29:29,417 --> 02:29:32,715 and profited by that rebuilding? 1840 02:29:32,837 --> 02:29:36,017 Are we now to find the American industrialists guilty? 1841 02:29:36,132 --> 02:29:38,636 No, Your Honour. No. 1842 02:29:39,719 --> 02:29:41,771 Germany alone is not guilty. 1843 02:29:41,888 --> 02:29:45,566 The whole world is as responsible for Hitler as Germany. 1844 02:29:45,684 --> 02:29:48,614 It is an easy thing to condemn one man in the dock. 1845 02:29:48,728 --> 02:29:52,489 It is easy to speak of the "basic flaw" in the German character 1846 02:29:52,607 --> 02:29:54,659 that allowed Hitler to rise to power, 1847 02:29:54,776 --> 02:29:57,991 and at the same time ignore the "basic flaw" of character 1848 02:29:58,113 --> 02:30:01,956 that made the Russians sign pacts with him, Winston Churchill praise him, 1849 02:30:02,075 --> 02:30:05,587 American industrialists profit by him! 1850 02:30:08,498 --> 02:30:11,962 Ernst Janning said he is guilty. 1851 02:30:14,004 --> 02:30:19,971 If he is, Ernst Janning's guilt is the world's guilt. 1852 02:30:21,928 --> 02:30:25,025 No more and no less. 1853 02:30:38,653 --> 02:30:44,170 Major, we have to give the military governor every help we can give him. 1854 02:30:44,284 --> 02:30:47,463 We have to get 700 tons in the air a day. 1855 02:30:47,579 --> 02:30:49,631 700 tons. 1856 02:30:55,128 --> 02:30:57,180 This is some operation. 1857 02:30:59,507 --> 02:31:05,309 Did you ever think we'd be flying coal and tomatoes in these crates? 1858 02:31:07,474 --> 02:31:11,151 Tad, you and I have been friends a long time. 1859 02:31:11,269 --> 02:31:13,737 That's why I called you here. 1860 02:31:16,650 --> 02:31:20,493 What are you going to do in court tomorrow? 1861 02:31:22,739 --> 02:31:25,373 You know damn well what I'm going to do. 1862 02:31:25,909 --> 02:31:31,129 I know what you want to do... put them behind bars and throw away the key. 1863 02:31:31,248 --> 02:31:34,131 You know what's going on here now? 1864 02:31:35,335 --> 02:31:39,013 Yeah, I know what's going on. 1865 02:31:39,130 --> 02:31:41,848 You're an army man. You know what we're up against. 1866 02:31:41,967 --> 02:31:45,810 The others may not, but you do. I'll tell you the truth. 1867 02:31:45,929 --> 02:31:50,650 I don't know what's going to happen if they fire on one of those planes. 1868 02:31:50,767 --> 02:31:53,271 I don't know what's going to happen. 1869 02:31:53,395 --> 02:31:57,986 But if I do know this: if Berlin goes, Germany goes. 1870 02:31:58,108 --> 02:32:01,489 If Germany goes, Europe goes. 1871 02:32:02,320 --> 02:32:06,911 That's the way things stand. That's the way they stand. 1872 02:32:07,033 --> 02:32:10,545 Look, Matt. I'm going to go the limit. 1873 02:32:10,662 --> 02:32:14,008 And not you, not the Pentagon, not God on his throne is... 1874 02:32:14,124 --> 02:32:17,089 Who do you think you're talking to? 1875 02:32:18,545 --> 02:32:21,345 Who the hell do you think you're talking to? 1876 02:32:21,464 --> 02:32:24,478 When you were marching into Dachau, I was there too. 1877 02:32:24,593 --> 02:32:27,096 You think I'll ever forget it? 1878 02:32:28,138 --> 02:32:32,278 I'm not your commanding officer. I can't and won't influence your decision. 1879 02:32:32,392 --> 02:32:37,066 But I want to give this to you, and I want to give it to you straight. 1880 02:32:37,188 --> 02:32:40,368 We need the help of the German people. 1881 02:32:42,277 --> 02:32:48,458 You don't get their help by sentencing their leaders to stiff prison sentences. 1882 02:32:59,544 --> 02:33:03,886 Tad, the thing to do is survive, isn't it? 1883 02:33:04,925 --> 02:33:09,148 Survive as best we can, but survive. 1884 02:33:18,897 --> 02:33:21,116 Just for laughs, Matt. 1885 02:33:22,067 --> 02:33:24,701 What was the war all about? 1886 02:33:26,321 --> 02:33:28,373 What was it about? 1887 02:33:34,537 --> 02:33:38,797 That concludes presentation of documentary evidence 1888 02:33:38,917 --> 02:33:41,254 against these defendants. 1889 02:33:50,053 --> 02:33:52,105 Your Honours, 1890 02:33:53,181 --> 02:33:57,404 during the three years that have passed since the end of the war in Europe, 1891 02:33:58,270 --> 02:34:02,529 mankind has not crossed over into Jordan. 1892 02:34:03,441 --> 02:34:06,953 In our own country, fear of war has been revived 1893 02:34:07,070 --> 02:34:10,664 and we must look once more to our defences. 1894 02:34:11,575 --> 02:34:16,830 There's talk of cold war while men and women die in real wars, 1895 02:34:17,706 --> 02:34:25,725 and the echoes of persecution and atrocities will not be stilled. 1896 02:34:28,341 --> 02:34:34,807 These events cannot help but colour what happens in this courtroom. 1897 02:34:34,931 --> 02:34:38,644 But somewhere in the midst of these events, 1898 02:34:39,603 --> 02:34:46,234 the responsibility for the crimes that we brought forward during this trial 1899 02:34:46,359 --> 02:34:50,831 must be placed in true perspective. 1900 02:34:50,947 --> 02:34:57,211 And this is the decision that faces Your Honours. 1901 02:34:57,329 --> 02:35:00,259 It is the dilemma of our times. 1902 02:35:02,584 --> 02:35:08,350 It is a dilemma that rests with you. 1903 02:35:15,055 --> 02:35:17,107 The prosecution rests. 1904 02:35:38,495 --> 02:35:42,552 The defendants may now make their final statements. 1905 02:35:46,962 --> 02:35:50,972 Defendant Emil Hahn may address the tribunal. 1906 02:35:55,971 --> 02:36:01,226 Your Honours, I do not evade the responsibility for my actions. 1907 02:36:02,060 --> 02:36:06,900 On the contrary, I stand by them before the entire world. 1908 02:36:07,774 --> 02:36:11,368 But I will not follow the policy of others. 1909 02:36:12,195 --> 02:36:14,876 I will not say of our policy today that it was wrong 1910 02:36:14,990 --> 02:36:18,336 when yesterday I say it was right. 1911 02:36:18,451 --> 02:36:21,169 Germany was fighting for its life. 1912 02:36:21,288 --> 02:36:24,502 Certain measures were needed to protect it from its enemies. 1913 02:36:24,624 --> 02:36:27,757 I cannot say that I am sorry we applied those measures. 1914 02:36:28,378 --> 02:36:31,226 We were a bulwark against Bolshevism. 1915 02:36:31,339 --> 02:36:35,017 We were a pillar of Western culture. 1916 02:36:35,468 --> 02:36:39,941 A bulwark and a pillar the West may yet wish to retain. 1917 02:36:44,269 --> 02:36:49,868 The defendant Friedrich Hofstetter may address the tribunal. 1918 02:36:56,114 --> 02:36:59,994 I have served my country throughout my life, 1919 02:37:00,118 --> 02:37:02,669 and in whatever position I was assigned to, 1920 02:37:02,787 --> 02:37:07,544 in faithfulness, with a pure heart and without malice. 1921 02:37:08,501 --> 02:37:13,757 I followed the concept that I believed to be the highest in my profession, 1922 02:37:13,882 --> 02:37:15,969 the concept that says: 1923 02:37:16,092 --> 02:37:22,392 to sacrifice one's own sense of justice to the authoritative legal order, 1924 02:37:22,515 --> 02:37:25,280 to ask only what the law is, 1925 02:37:26,144 --> 02:37:29,193 and not to ask whether or not it is also justice. 1926 02:37:30,148 --> 02:37:34,028 As a judge, I could do no other. 1927 02:37:34,152 --> 02:37:38,458 I believe Your Honours will find me, and millions of Germans like me, 1928 02:37:38,573 --> 02:37:41,752 who believed they were doing their duty to their country, 1929 02:37:41,868 --> 02:37:45,047 to be not guilty. 1930 02:37:50,043 --> 02:37:53,341 The defendant Werner Lampe may address the tribunal. 1931 02:38:01,429 --> 02:38:03,481 Your Honours... 1932 02:38:14,693 --> 02:38:16,745 Your Honours... 1933 02:38:35,171 --> 02:38:38,434 The defendant Ernst Janning may address the tribunal. 1934 02:38:48,768 --> 02:38:52,150 I have nothing to add to what I have said. 1935 02:39:02,949 --> 02:39:06,497 Testimony has been received, final arguments have been heard. 1936 02:39:06,620 --> 02:39:12,386 There remains nothing now but the task of the tribunal to render its decision. 1937 02:39:12,500 --> 02:39:16,558 The tribunal will recess until further notification. 1938 02:39:37,692 --> 02:39:40,077 I've collected precedents and arguments 1939 02:39:40,195 --> 02:39:42,532 that have a bearing on the basis of the case, 1940 02:39:42,656 --> 02:39:46,748 which is the conflict between allegiance to international law 1941 02:39:46,868 --> 02:39:49,882 and to the laws of one's own country. 1942 02:39:49,996 --> 02:39:54,505 Dan, we have a mountain of material to go over here. 1943 02:39:54,626 --> 02:39:56,845 - What are you looking at, Dan? - Mm? 1944 02:39:56,962 --> 02:40:02,561 I was looking at some of these pictures attached to the warrants for arrest. 1945 02:40:02,676 --> 02:40:04,728 What pictures? 1946 02:40:05,971 --> 02:40:09,814 There's Petersen before they operated on him. 1947 02:40:09,933 --> 02:40:11,938 Here's Irene Hoffman. 1948 02:40:12,060 --> 02:40:15,025 She really was 16 once, wasn't she? 1949 02:40:16,398 --> 02:40:18,450 Feldenstein. 1950 02:40:20,569 --> 02:40:25,492 And here's a boy... he certainly couldn't have been more than 14... 1951 02:40:25,615 --> 02:40:28,712 executed for saying things against the Third Reich. 1952 02:40:28,827 --> 02:40:32,540 "By order of Justice Friedrich Hofstetter." 1953 02:40:32,664 --> 02:40:37,089 If I may say so, more pertinent to the legal basis of the case, 1954 02:40:37,210 --> 02:40:39,595 I have the address of the French prosecutor 1955 02:40:39,713 --> 02:40:42,347 before the international military tribunal. 1956 02:40:42,465 --> 02:40:46,060 "It is obvious that, in the state organised along modern lines, 1957 02:40:46,177 --> 02:40:50,567 responsibility is confined to those who act directly for the state." 1958 02:40:50,682 --> 02:40:54,609 "Since they alone are in a position to judge the legitimacy of the given orders, 1959 02:40:54,728 --> 02:40:57,196 they alone can be prosecuted." 1960 02:40:57,314 --> 02:40:59,947 I have another from Professor Jahreiss... 1961 02:41:00,066 --> 02:41:03,578 "Legal aspects: trial of the major war criminals". 1962 02:41:03,695 --> 02:41:06,910 On the basis of these, I don't see where the prosecution 1963 02:41:07,032 --> 02:41:10,164 has put forth a really clear-cut case against the defence 1964 02:41:10,285 --> 02:41:12,788 pertaining to the charges in the indictment. 1965 02:41:12,913 --> 02:41:17,053 Regardless of the acts committed, we cannot make the interpretation 1966 02:41:17,167 --> 02:41:23,798 that these defendants are really responsible for crimes against humanity. 1967 02:41:24,591 --> 02:41:28,103 - What do you think, Dan? - We've been going over this all day! 1968 02:41:28,220 --> 02:41:30,272 If it isn't clear now... 1969 02:41:31,723 --> 02:41:34,772 Aren't you going to look at these precedents? 1970 02:41:34,893 --> 02:41:37,443 Aren't you interested at all? 1971 02:41:39,439 --> 02:41:44,529 I'm interested, Curtiss. You were speaking of crimes against humanity, 1972 02:41:44,653 --> 02:41:47,999 saying the defendants were not responsible for their acts. 1973 02:41:48,114 --> 02:41:51,163 I'd like you to explain that to me. 1974 02:41:51,284 --> 02:41:54,298 - I've just been explaining it. - Maybe. 1975 02:41:54,412 --> 02:41:59,846 But all I've heard is a lot of legalistic double talk and rationalisation. 1976 02:41:59,960 --> 02:42:03,554 You know, when I first became a judge 1977 02:42:03,672 --> 02:42:07,385 I knew there were certain people in town I wasn't supposed to touch. 1978 02:42:07,509 --> 02:42:11,649 I knew that if I was to remain a judge, this was so. 1979 02:42:12,639 --> 02:42:15,604 But how in God's name do you expect me to look the other way 1980 02:42:15,725 --> 02:42:17,565 at the murder of six million people? 1981 02:42:17,686 --> 02:42:21,233 I'm sure he didn't mean... -I'm not asking you to look the other way. 1982 02:42:21,356 --> 02:42:25,698 I'm asking you what good is it going to do to pursue this policy? 1983 02:42:28,321 --> 02:42:32,830 Curtiss, you were saying that the men are not responsible for their acts. 1984 02:42:32,951 --> 02:42:35,205 You're going to have to explain that to me. 1985 02:42:35,328 --> 02:42:38,294 You're going to have to explain it very carefully. 1986 02:42:45,922 --> 02:42:47,844 The tribunal is now in session. 1987 02:42:47,966 --> 02:42:53,981 God bless the United States of America and this honourable tribunal. 1988 02:43:12,949 --> 02:43:16,331 The trial conducted before this tribunal began over eight months ago. 1989 02:43:16,453 --> 02:43:20,629 The record of evidence is more than 10,000 pages long, 1990 02:43:20,749 --> 02:43:25,304 and final arguments of counsel have been concluded. 1991 02:43:26,838 --> 02:43:30,101 Simple murders and atrocities 1992 02:43:30,216 --> 02:43:34,891 do not constitute the gravamen of the charges in this indictment. 1993 02:43:35,013 --> 02:43:40,363 Rather, the charge is that of conscious participation 1994 02:43:40,477 --> 02:43:46,278 in a nationwide, government-organised system of cruelty and injustice, 1995 02:43:47,108 --> 02:43:53,870 in violation of every moral and legal principle known to all civilised nations. 1996 02:43:54,824 --> 02:43:59,047 The tribunal has carefully studied the record 1997 02:43:59,162 --> 02:44:03,671 and found therein abundant evidence 1998 02:44:03,792 --> 02:44:10,222 to support beyond a reasonable doubt the charges against these defendants. 1999 02:44:21,601 --> 02:44:26,489 Herr Rolfe, in his very skilful defence, 2000 02:44:27,148 --> 02:44:32,119 has asserted that there are others 2001 02:44:32,237 --> 02:44:35,167 who must share the ultimate responsibility 2002 02:44:35,282 --> 02:44:37,832 for what happened here in Germany. 2003 02:44:37,951 --> 02:44:40,003 There is truth in this. 2004 02:44:41,162 --> 02:44:47,426 The real complaining party at the bar in this courtroom is civilisation. 2005 02:44:49,004 --> 02:44:53,974 But the tribunal does say that the men in the dock 2006 02:44:54,092 --> 02:44:57,189 are responsible for their actions. 2007 02:44:59,014 --> 02:45:02,691 Men who sat in black robes, 2008 02:45:04,185 --> 02:45:07,069 in judgment on other men. 2009 02:45:09,274 --> 02:45:15,787 Men who took part in the enactment of laws and decrees, 2010 02:45:18,742 --> 02:45:22,965 the purpose of which was the extermination of human beings. 2011 02:45:23,079 --> 02:45:26,176 Men who, in executive positions, 2012 02:45:26,291 --> 02:45:31,380 actively participated in the enforcement of these laws, 2013 02:45:31,504 --> 02:45:34,719 illegal even under German law. 2014 02:45:40,972 --> 02:45:47,983 The principle of criminal law in every civilised society 2015 02:45:48,104 --> 02:45:50,441 has this in common: 2016 02:45:51,942 --> 02:45:57,292 any person who sways another to commit murder, 2017 02:45:58,782 --> 02:46:05,212 any person who furnishes the lethal weapon for the purpose of the crime, 2018 02:46:06,456 --> 02:46:10,169 any person who is an accessory to the crime, 2019 02:46:11,920 --> 02:46:13,972 is guilty. 2020 02:46:18,176 --> 02:46:24,357 Herr Rolfe further asserts that the defendant Janning 2021 02:46:26,226 --> 02:46:28,445 was an extraordinary jurist 2022 02:46:28,562 --> 02:46:32,025 and acted in what he thought was the best interest of his country. 2023 02:46:32,148 --> 02:46:34,485 There is truth in this also. 2024 02:46:36,528 --> 02:46:41,083 Janning, to be sure, is a tragic figure. 2025 02:46:41,658 --> 02:46:45,252 We believe he loathed the evil he did. 2026 02:46:45,370 --> 02:46:48,751 But compassion for the present torture of his soul 2027 02:46:48,873 --> 02:46:51,175 must not beget forgetfulness 2028 02:46:51,293 --> 02:46:57,758 of the torture and the death of millions by the government of which he was part. 2029 02:46:57,882 --> 02:47:01,845 Janning's record and his fate illuminate the most shattering truth 2030 02:47:01,970 --> 02:47:04,271 that has emerged from this trial. 2031 02:47:04,389 --> 02:47:09,739 If he, and all of the other defendants, had been degraded perverts, 2032 02:47:09,853 --> 02:47:16,153 if all of the leaders of the Third Reich had been sadistic monsters and maniacs, 2033 02:47:16,276 --> 02:47:20,369 then these events would have no more moral significance 2034 02:47:20,488 --> 02:47:24,083 than an earthquake, or any other natural catastrophe. 2035 02:47:24,200 --> 02:47:30,334 But this trial has shown that under a national crisis 2036 02:47:30,457 --> 02:47:35,297 ordinary, even able and extraordinary men, 2037 02:47:35,420 --> 02:47:39,347 can delude themselves into the commission of crimes 2038 02:47:39,466 --> 02:47:42,764 so vast and heinous that they beggar the imagination. 2039 02:47:42,886 --> 02:47:46,148 No one who has sat through the trial can ever forget them. 2040 02:47:47,557 --> 02:47:51,188 Men sterilised because of political belief. 2041 02:47:51,311 --> 02:47:54,609 A mockery made of friendship and faith. 2042 02:47:54,731 --> 02:47:56,783 The murder of children. 2043 02:47:57,984 --> 02:48:00,120 How easily it can happen. 2044 02:48:01,947 --> 02:48:04,117 There are those in our own country too 2045 02:48:04,241 --> 02:48:08,962 who today speak of the protection of country, of survival. 2046 02:48:09,079 --> 02:48:12,425 A decision must be made in the life of every nation. 2047 02:48:12,540 --> 02:48:16,633 At the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat, 2048 02:48:16,753 --> 02:48:20,633 then it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, 2049 02:48:20,757 --> 02:48:23,438 to rest survival upon what is expedient, 2050 02:48:23,551 --> 02:48:25,853 to look the other way. 2051 02:48:26,846 --> 02:48:32,897 Well, the answer to that is... survival as what? 2052 02:48:33,019 --> 02:48:35,321 A country isn't a rock. 2053 02:48:35,438 --> 02:48:38,072 It's not an extension of one's self. 2054 02:48:38,191 --> 02:48:40,327 It's what it stands for. 2055 02:48:40,443 --> 02:48:46,874 It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult. 2056 02:48:48,994 --> 02:48:51,924 Before the people of the world, 2057 02:48:52,038 --> 02:48:59,014 let it now be noted that here, in our decision, this is what we stand for: 2058 02:49:00,088 --> 02:49:02,769 justice, truth... 2059 02:49:05,468 --> 02:49:08,648 and the value of a single human being. 2060 02:49:19,399 --> 02:49:23,030 The marshal will produce before the tribunal the defendant Hahn. 2061 02:49:25,947 --> 02:49:28,083 Emil Hahn, 2062 02:49:28,199 --> 02:49:32,838 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2063 02:49:32,954 --> 02:49:38,341 Today you sentence me. Tomorrow the Bolsheviks sentence you! 2064 02:49:43,340 --> 02:49:50,102 The marshal will produce the defendant Hofstetter before the tribunal. 2065 02:49:51,056 --> 02:49:53,108 Friedrich Hofstetter, 2066 02:49:53,225 --> 02:49:59,322 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2067 02:50:02,275 --> 02:50:08,077 The marshal will produce the defendant Lampe before the tribunal. 2068 02:50:12,494 --> 02:50:14,546 Werner Lampe, 2069 02:50:15,830 --> 02:50:21,928 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2070 02:50:31,388 --> 02:50:36,027 The marshal will produce the defendant Ernst Janning before the tribunal. 2071 02:50:51,449 --> 02:50:53,501 Ernst Janning, 2072 02:50:54,744 --> 02:51:00,344 the tribunal finds you guilty and sentences you to life imprisonment. 2073 02:51:06,089 --> 02:51:08,141 He doesn't understand. 2074 02:51:09,301 --> 02:51:11,769 He just doesn't understand. 2075 02:51:12,470 --> 02:51:14,522 He understands. 2076 02:51:28,028 --> 02:51:30,496 Justice Ives dissenting. 2077 02:51:32,741 --> 02:51:35,807 I wish to point out strongly 2078 02:51:35,808 --> 02:51:38,508 my dissenting vote from the decision of this tribunal 2079 02:51:38,622 --> 02:51:44,470 as stated by Justice Haywood, and in which Justice Norris concurred. 2080 02:51:44,586 --> 02:51:47,551 The issue of the actions of the defendants, 2081 02:51:47,672 --> 02:51:51,848 who believed they were acting in the best interests of their country, 2082 02:51:51,968 --> 02:51:57,271 is an issue that cannot be decided in a courtroom alone. 2083 02:51:57,390 --> 02:52:00,653 It can only be decided objectively, 2084 02:52:00,769 --> 02:52:05,324 in years to come, in the true perspective of history. 2085 02:52:12,364 --> 02:52:14,998 Where shall I put these books, Your Honour? 2086 02:52:15,116 --> 02:52:18,296 Put them in the trunk, Mr Halbestadt. 2087 02:52:20,372 --> 02:52:24,713 Your Honour, here's something for you to have on the plane. 2088 02:52:24,834 --> 02:52:29,639 Oh, no. If you give me any more food, I won't have any room for anything else. 2089 02:52:29,756 --> 02:52:32,057 But it's strudel, the way you like it. 2090 02:52:32,175 --> 02:52:35,853 - Thank you. Thank you for everything. - Ja, ja. 2091 02:52:35,971 --> 02:52:38,023 - I'll put it in the car. - Thanks. 2092 02:52:38,139 --> 02:52:43,443 Tickets, passport, immunisation. I'll have your boarding pass at the airport. 2093 02:52:43,562 --> 02:52:45,946 See you there no later than three o'clock. 2094 02:52:46,064 --> 02:52:48,912 Oh, and give my regards to Miss... what was her name? 2095 02:52:49,025 --> 02:52:51,362 Scheffler. Elsa. 2096 02:52:51,486 --> 02:52:54,037 - That's one you owe me. - What do you mean? 2097 02:52:54,155 --> 02:52:59,209 Americans aren't very popular in Nuremberg this morning. 2098 02:53:58,637 --> 02:54:01,851 - Good afternoon, Your Honour. - Good afternoon. 2099 02:54:03,141 --> 02:54:07,780 I came here at the request of my client, Ernst Janning. 2100 02:54:09,481 --> 02:54:12,115 He wishes to see you. 2101 02:54:12,234 --> 02:54:15,117 I'm just leaving for the airport. 2102 02:54:16,321 --> 02:54:19,915 He says it would mean a great deal to him. 2103 02:54:26,248 --> 02:54:30,174 Have you heard about the verdict in the IG Farben case? 2104 02:54:30,293 --> 02:54:34,765 Most of them were acquitted. The others received light sentences. 2105 02:54:34,881 --> 02:54:39,141 - The verdict came in today. - No, I hadn't heard. 2106 02:54:39,261 --> 02:54:41,811 I will make you a wager. 2107 02:54:41,930 --> 02:54:44,398 I don't make wagers. 2108 02:54:44,516 --> 02:54:46,272 A gentlemen's wager. 2109 02:54:47,644 --> 02:54:53,410 In five years, the men you sentenced to life imprisonment will be free. 2110 02:54:56,444 --> 02:55:00,667 Herr Rolfe, I have admired your work in the courtroom for many months. 2111 02:55:00,782 --> 02:55:05,005 You are particularly brilliant in your use of logic. 2112 02:55:05,120 --> 02:55:10,293 So, what you suggest may very well happen. 2113 02:55:10,417 --> 02:55:14,759 It is logical, in view of the times in which we live. 2114 02:55:15,755 --> 02:55:19,018 But to be logical is not to be right. 2115 02:55:19,134 --> 02:55:22,432 And nothing on God's earth could ever make it right. 2116 02:55:33,356 --> 02:55:35,408 Someone to see you. 2117 02:55:47,537 --> 02:55:49,589 Herr Janning. 2118 02:55:51,041 --> 02:55:53,093 Judge Haywood. 2119 02:55:54,836 --> 02:55:57,055 Please, sit down. 2120 02:55:57,797 --> 02:56:01,261 Thank you. You wanted to see me. 2121 02:56:01,384 --> 02:56:05,644 Yes. There is something I want to give you. 2122 02:56:05,764 --> 02:56:07,816 A record. 2123 02:56:09,184 --> 02:56:13,111 A record of my cases, the ones I remember. 2124 02:56:14,606 --> 02:56:18,616 I want to give them to someone I can trust, 2125 02:56:18,735 --> 02:56:22,033 someone I felt I got to know during the trial. 2126 02:56:28,536 --> 02:56:30,589 Thank you. 2127 02:56:32,666 --> 02:56:35,050 I'll take good care of them. 2128 02:56:35,168 --> 02:56:39,973 I know the pressures that had been brought upon you. 2129 02:56:40,090 --> 02:56:42,474 You will be criticised greatly. 2130 02:56:42,592 --> 02:56:45,974 Your decision will not be a popular one. 2131 02:56:47,889 --> 02:56:51,152 But, if it means anything to you, 2132 02:56:51,268 --> 02:56:56,785 you have the respect of at least one of the men you convicted. 2133 02:56:56,898 --> 02:57:02,664 By all that is right in this world, your verdict was a just one. 2134 02:57:04,364 --> 02:57:06,416 Thank you. 2135 02:57:07,909 --> 02:57:12,251 What you said in the courtroom, it needed to be said. 2136 02:57:12,372 --> 02:57:14,009 Judge Haywood... 2137 02:57:17,419 --> 02:57:19,720 The reason I asked you to come... 2138 02:57:27,470 --> 02:57:32,026 Those people, those millions of people, 2139 02:57:34,185 --> 02:57:37,567 I never knew it would come to that. 2140 02:57:37,689 --> 02:57:41,651 You must believe it. You must believe it. 2141 02:57:44,905 --> 02:57:48,784 Herr Janning, it came to that 2142 02:57:48,909 --> 02:57:53,713 the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent. 2143 02:59:01,014 --> 02:59:04,514 Published 04/27/2014 @ www.podnapisi.net 177282

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.