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� �
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Jesse Helms:
Robert Mapplethorpe,
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a known homosexual who died of AIDS
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and who spent the last years of his life promoting homosexuality.
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Now, if any senator doesn't know what I'm talking about
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in terms of the art that I have protested,
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look at the pictures!
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Now, any senator who thinks
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that I'm attacking aesthetic art--
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I don't know whether
the television cameras
can see it or not,
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I'm gonna be fast enough
with it that they can't.
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But I want senators
to come over here,
if they have any doubt,
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and look at the pictures.
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Reporter:
In Cincinnati, police closeddown the Mapplethorpe exhibit.
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We are sending
the Mapplethorpe
exhibit to trial.
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Helms:
Come over here. Look at the pictures.
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Alex Trebeck:
One of two artists whose
works led to a dispute...
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Helms:
Look at the pictures. Look at the pictures.
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Look at the pictures.
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(beeps)
Who is Mapplethorpe?
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Dan Rather:
The art gallery and its director
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are charged with obscenity
for exhibiting photographs by
the late Robert Mapplethorpe.
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Helms:
Look at the pictures.
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Mapplethorpe's work
is highly controversial.
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Can I show it to you?
I don't want to look at it.
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Helms:
I don't even acknowledge that it's art.
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Protesters:
Keep your hands off!
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Helms:
I don't even acknowledge
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that the fellow who did it was an artist.
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I think he was a jerk...
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(echoing):
...jerk, jerk.
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� �
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Archivist:
This is one of five vaults
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in which Mapplethorpe's archive resides.
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Audiovisual material is in here
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along with more ephemeral
paperwork from his studio
and personal correspondence.
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Photographs are
in a cooler environment,
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and Polaroids are in
an even colder environment.
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� �
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Woman:
One of our big challengesis to really make a case
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for why we're doingtwo concurrent exhibitions...
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Man: Right....about one artist.
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This is two sides of one coin.
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Yeah.
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There is a duality that runs through Mapplethorpe's work and life
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and we hope to be able to divide the material
47
00:03:01,448 --> 00:03:04,849
in a way that would highlight that duality.
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This is a box
of self-portraits.
Right.
49
00:03:12,892 --> 00:03:14,059
Oh.
Oh.
50
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Yeah, biker jacket
from the back.
51
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Yeah.
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I really like
this white piping
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and how it leads up
to this other shape.
Yeah.
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That's one
of the great ones.
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Male curator:
When you say Mapplethorpe, people immediately think
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of the controversies that happened during the '90s.
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"Guerrilla Rebel."
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Yeah.
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Male curator:
Mapplethorpe was being demonized
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by conservative politicians,
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so one of our goals was to humanize Mapplethorpe,
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to bring him back into people's consciousness as a human being.
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It's quite convincing.
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00:03:55,135 --> 00:03:56,901
Ah.
Oh.
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Mapplethorpe and bullwhip.
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00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:03,375
I remember it being
a slightly higher contrast.
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00:04:03,477 --> 00:04:04,809
It's a different paper.
Right.
68
00:04:04,911 --> 00:04:06,777
This is a lot warmer
and softer.
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00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:07,912
Mm-hmm.
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00:04:08,015 --> 00:04:09,780
The way his hand is,
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it's so great,
it almost looks like
he's releasing a shadow.
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00:04:12,819 --> 00:04:17,955
Yes. Because that cord
comes just to the edge
of the frame.
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00:04:18,058 --> 00:04:21,459
The cord kind of connects
the viewer with Mapplethorpe.
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Yeah.
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Because it's coming
out of the picture.
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As well as the eye contact.
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Right.
Obviously,
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it's very defiant.
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He's not hiding his face.
He's not hiding his identity.
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He's not hiding
what he's doing.
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� �
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� �
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(shutter clicks)
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Robert was just...
my younger brother.
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I'm the oldest.
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That's myself,
my brother Richard,
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Robert, Edward,
Sue, and James.
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That's the six of us.
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When we were young, we did a lot of coloring.
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00:05:34,568 --> 00:05:36,801
Robert always had weird things.
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He'd have a green face,
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or... just not the norm.
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Purple hair, or something.
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And I'd say,
"Why are you doing that for?
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"That's not the way
it's supposed to be."
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As far as, like, photographs,
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he never took photographs.
98
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My dad took a lot of photographs.
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Robert, he had no interest in that at all.
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Harry:
My wife and I and the children moved here in 1949.
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00:06:05,064 --> 00:06:07,365
I was always interested in photography,
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but none of my kids were until Eddie.
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I had all the equipment downstairs, a darkroom,
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enlarger and printer and dryerand everything else.
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This is the block
we lived on.
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See, all the houses were the same?
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This is during the snow.
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This is Robert here with two of his friends.
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You know, we had to be home
a certain time for dinner,
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and you had to sit
at the table until
you finished your dinner.
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Harry:
Robert was this regular kid.
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One thing was, his endurance on a pogo stick.
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He was having competitions with people.
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He would go all the way aroundthe block on a pogo stick.
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Robert was the pogo stick
champ of 259th Street,
of the neighborhood.
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He just could go on forever, and he was so proud of that.
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You know, there's somethingabout black and white picturesthat are so much better
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because they last.
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I took this of Robertin front of our house, right?
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The rest of them,
all these, he took of me,
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and, I believe, is probably the first pictures he took.
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(organ music playing)
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Announcer:
"Sense and Nonsense!"
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Nancy:
There was this television program in the early '50s.
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Someone would give them
something to taste with
their blindfolds on
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and you would haveto guess what it is.
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That's how we play the game,
identifying items by means
of our five senses.
128
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Well, we Mapplethorpe kids
made our own
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"Sense and Nonsense" game.
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00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:49,200
Robert, little devilthat he was,
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went to one of the manyashtrays around the house,
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which were always full,
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and put ashes
in my brother's mouth,
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and they were fuming.
135
00:08:01,548 --> 00:08:04,882
That's the kind of stuff
he did, that kind of
needling stuff.
136
00:08:04,984 --> 00:08:08,720
So he wasa devilish guy. (laughs)
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� �
138
00:08:11,625 --> 00:08:14,525
We never missed Mass on Sunday.
139
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We always went to church.
140
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And I still do.
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(woman singing opera)
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George Stack:
I first met Robert Mapplethorpe
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when I was assigned to Our Lady of the Snows Parish in Floral Park.
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They were active in the parish, you know,
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so I got to know the whole family.
146
00:08:48,227 --> 00:08:51,095
So Robert just kind of
took to me,
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00:08:51,197 --> 00:08:52,963
and I, you know, took to him.
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And... he used to paint
me pictures.
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He drew me a couple of
paintings of the Blessed
Mother, the Virgin Mary,
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00:09:02,642 --> 00:09:08,413
and I thought to myself,
"He's been too influenced
by Picasso."
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00:09:08,515 --> 00:09:10,782
You know? (laughs)
152
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But anyway, I have to say that, first,
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he was the only person I knew
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who could sit on a couch
and chew his toenails.
155
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The other thing was,
you'd look at Robert
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00:09:23,896 --> 00:09:27,164
and I think the first thing
you'd notice is his eyes.
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They were huge,
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and as if he was always looking,
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always penetrating, always...
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you know, trying to get through.
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Mapplethorpe:
I come from this, you know, suburban America.
162
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It was a very safe environment,
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and it was a good place to come from
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in that it was a good place to leave.
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Stack:
He never quite really fit in
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00:09:59,866 --> 00:10:04,669
with all theseother teenage boys, you know?
167
00:10:04,771 --> 00:10:08,072
There was something very fragile about Robert.
168
00:10:09,976 --> 00:10:12,443
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
169
00:10:21,053 --> 00:10:24,288
Nancy:
Robert was mom's favorite. I don't know why though.
170
00:10:24,391 --> 00:10:26,691
I can't put my finger on specific things,
171
00:10:26,793 --> 00:10:29,927
but I always say,"Oh, Robert was her favorite."
172
00:10:32,098 --> 00:10:34,899
Mapplethorpe:
Somehow that just wasn't enough for me.
173
00:10:36,269 --> 00:10:38,536
Robert was smart.
Everything came easy to him.
174
00:10:38,638 --> 00:10:41,038
I worked like a dog
for my marks,
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but he graduated at 16.
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Mapplethorpe:
As soon as I could,I started art school training,
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00:10:47,447 --> 00:10:49,847
and I moved to Brooklyn.
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00:10:49,949 --> 00:10:52,583
Nancy:
My dad wasbasically against it.
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00:10:52,685 --> 00:10:56,987
My father thought,
you can do it as a hobby,
180
00:10:57,089 --> 00:10:59,590
but what are you ever
gonna do with art?
181
00:11:03,830 --> 00:11:06,330
Man:
Did you know that photography
182
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and homosexuality share something in common?
183
00:11:08,701 --> 00:11:11,436
Growing respect for
photography in the art world
184
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occurred simultaneously
185
00:11:13,339 --> 00:11:15,573
with the growing visibility
of the gay rights movement.
186
00:11:15,675 --> 00:11:19,444
Each suffered a gauntlet
of prejudice during
their coming of age.
187
00:11:19,546 --> 00:11:21,312
Just as Mapplethorpe was starting out,
188
00:11:21,414 --> 00:11:24,982
to be openly gay was still very much a cultural taboo.
189
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And photography was considered not much more than a utilitarian medium,
190
00:11:30,189 --> 00:11:33,991
an applied art,
a bastard of the arts.
191
00:11:37,063 --> 00:11:39,831
Woman:
He was very young when he started Pratt.
192
00:11:39,933 --> 00:11:44,101
He just looked like a little boy and people made fun of him.
193
00:11:44,203 --> 00:11:47,972
At that time his name was Bob Mapplethorpe,
194
00:11:48,074 --> 00:11:50,808
and to further diminish him,
195
00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:52,643
they called him "Maypo,"
196
00:11:52,745 --> 00:11:56,180
because that was a children's
cereal back in those days.
197
00:11:56,282 --> 00:11:59,416
� I want my Maypo, I want my Maypo �
198
00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:01,752
He was not macho.
199
00:12:01,855 --> 00:12:04,288
Child:
It makes you strong.
200
00:12:04,390 --> 00:12:06,891
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
201
00:12:15,835 --> 00:12:19,804
He told me he would take his
father's negatives to class
202
00:12:19,906 --> 00:12:22,406
and present them
as his own work.
203
00:12:22,509 --> 00:12:25,242
He was a fuckup.
(laughs)
204
00:12:28,581 --> 00:12:31,849
Female curator:
So I was interested in his experience at Pratt
205
00:12:31,951 --> 00:12:34,852
and how he found himself
as an artist there.
206
00:12:34,954 --> 00:12:36,453
Is that a self-portrait?
207
00:12:36,556 --> 00:12:38,355
Yes. This one's
actually ink,
208
00:12:38,457 --> 00:12:42,927
so I'm imagining he, like,
rolled an oil-based ink
onto his face.
209
00:12:43,029 --> 00:12:43,961
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
210
00:12:44,063 --> 00:12:45,696
Which is kind of
hard to comprehend.
211
00:12:45,798 --> 00:12:47,131
The psychedelia of it too.
212
00:12:47,233 --> 00:12:49,767
He was really into acid
at the time.
213
00:12:51,170 --> 00:12:53,971
Man:
We both had a similar background.
214
00:12:54,073 --> 00:12:56,707
Right off the bat,I think we kind of hit it off.
215
00:12:56,809 --> 00:13:01,812
He started taking drugs
and smoked marijuana. LSD.
216
00:13:01,915 --> 00:13:03,147
We both were living on
217
00:13:03,249 --> 00:13:04,916
candy bars and cigarettes,
basically,
218
00:13:05,018 --> 00:13:08,485
and he was getting really skinny and we were both really pale-looking...
219
00:13:08,588 --> 00:13:14,091
But we smoked, and so he put LSD in the cigarette.
220
00:13:14,193 --> 00:13:16,060
I completely lost my memory.
221
00:13:16,162 --> 00:13:21,465
And so... I, uh...
222
00:13:27,006 --> 00:13:28,940
I don't know,
I'm losing track now.
223
00:13:29,042 --> 00:13:31,108
I'm kind of like, having a...
224
00:13:31,210 --> 00:13:33,377
I'm going back there too much, I guess.
225
00:13:33,479 --> 00:13:36,948
Mapplethorpe:
When I was in art school,I'd stay up all night, stoned,
226
00:13:37,050 --> 00:13:38,883
trying to think what hasn't been done,
227
00:13:38,985 --> 00:13:43,955
and I was obsessed with trying to come up with a new approach to art
228
00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:45,923
and to be unique somehow.
229
00:13:46,025 --> 00:13:50,061
Bob and I realized
you have to get
a little name recognition
230
00:13:50,162 --> 00:13:53,097
and sometimes the weird thing
works-- can work well for you.
231
00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:57,969
So, somewhere along the way
there, he had purchased
this little monkey
232
00:13:58,071 --> 00:13:59,269
and he named it Scratch,
233
00:13:59,371 --> 00:14:02,172
and I did some reallynice drawings of Scratch.
234
00:14:02,274 --> 00:14:05,209
The monkey hadsome bad habits.
235
00:14:05,311 --> 00:14:07,411
The monkey masturbated a lot,
236
00:14:07,513 --> 00:14:11,482
and the monkey
threw crap at you sometimes.
237
00:14:11,584 --> 00:14:14,551
He would walk around with
the monkey on his shoulder
238
00:14:14,654 --> 00:14:17,088
and he was
wearing a black cape.
239
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:20,791
Robert and I graduated Pratt
in '67,
240
00:14:20,893 --> 00:14:23,227
the Summer of Love
and blah, blah, blah.
241
00:14:23,329 --> 00:14:26,597
And here is Robert
standing all by himself
242
00:14:26,699 --> 00:14:30,234
in a corner, hanging,
you know, hiding his face.
243
00:14:30,336 --> 00:14:32,336
He's extremely mysterious.
244
00:14:32,438 --> 00:14:34,939
And that's who he was.
245
00:14:35,041 --> 00:14:36,540
McCue:
The final project for both of us
246
00:14:36,643 --> 00:14:39,209
was to make a musical instrument out of a bone.
247
00:14:39,311 --> 00:14:41,712
Then I remember, I got a call from Bob
248
00:14:41,814 --> 00:14:44,649
and he was all kind of
weepy and he said,
249
00:14:44,751 --> 00:14:47,818
"I don't know what to do.
Scratch has died."
250
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,320
It was maybe two o'clock in the morning.
251
00:14:50,422 --> 00:14:53,423
He came in and he was really shook.
252
00:14:53,526 --> 00:14:57,261
He said,
"I boiled Scratch's head,
253
00:14:57,363 --> 00:14:59,797
"and I've got my bone,
254
00:14:59,899 --> 00:15:01,465
"but, you know,
it was terrible.
255
00:15:01,567 --> 00:15:04,835
"It smelled terrible.
I hated doing it,
I had to cut his head off."
256
00:15:04,937 --> 00:15:07,571
So he aced the project.
257
00:15:07,674 --> 00:15:09,439
Yeah.
258
00:15:09,542 --> 00:15:11,909
Mapplethorpe:
There was a lot of negativity,
259
00:15:12,011 --> 00:15:13,610
even at Pratt, toward what I did.
260
00:15:13,713 --> 00:15:15,279
You know, people would say,
261
00:15:15,381 --> 00:15:17,882
"That isn't art, that isn't the way you make art,"
262
00:15:17,984 --> 00:15:20,017
and I just did it the way I wanted to do it.
263
00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:23,187
Brunnick:
Robert set himself
apart from his classmates.
264
00:15:23,289 --> 00:15:26,323
Woman:
It's a beast and this
is his backside.
265
00:15:26,425 --> 00:15:28,225
It's a pose
that he uses himself
266
00:15:28,327 --> 00:15:30,194
later on in self-portraits.
Hmm.
267
00:15:30,296 --> 00:15:34,965
If you compare it
to "Bullwhip,"
that backward pose,
268
00:15:35,068 --> 00:15:37,367
he already has it in his mind.
269
00:15:37,469 --> 00:15:40,171
The last time I saw Bob,
he had no clothes on.
270
00:15:40,272 --> 00:15:44,041
He was afraid. He had all
the furniture stacked up
against the door,
271
00:15:44,143 --> 00:15:48,012
and he was really beside
himself and he said,
272
00:15:48,114 --> 00:15:51,182
"I'm afraid. I'm afraid.
Someone's coming.
Someone's coming.
273
00:15:51,283 --> 00:15:52,883
Could you give me $20?"
274
00:15:52,985 --> 00:15:55,052
� �
275
00:16:03,262 --> 00:16:05,562
Patti Smith:
I met Robert accidentally
276
00:16:05,664 --> 00:16:08,532
and he was just a boy. I mean, we were both 20.
277
00:16:08,634 --> 00:16:12,069
He was... He was a kid going to Pratt,
278
00:16:12,171 --> 00:16:16,173
and we fell in love and he was my boyfriend.
279
00:16:16,275 --> 00:16:19,710
Mapplethorpe: It was the first time I had ever been in love with anybody,
280
00:16:19,812 --> 00:16:23,047
so the fact that it was-- it was somebody as unique as Patti,
281
00:16:23,149 --> 00:16:26,884
I mean, she was-- she was a magical kind of person.
282
00:16:26,986 --> 00:16:29,686
So like, you know, and she was--
283
00:16:29,789 --> 00:16:33,958
she was supportive ofwhat I was doing, or my magic,
284
00:16:34,060 --> 00:16:36,426
and I was supportive of her magic.
285
00:16:36,528 --> 00:16:38,229
Neither one of us were ever jealous,
286
00:16:38,330 --> 00:16:42,833
so it was like, you know, it was like a storybook relationship.
287
00:16:46,438 --> 00:16:49,606
Smith:
He helped me to build confidence in my work
288
00:16:49,708 --> 00:16:53,177
and to think of myself as artist,
289
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:55,445
to have a concept of oneself as an artist.
290
00:16:55,547 --> 00:16:57,581
That was always really important to Robert,
291
00:16:57,683 --> 00:17:01,752
not as an apprentice, not as a student,
292
00:17:01,854 --> 00:17:03,720
but as an artist.
293
00:17:05,658 --> 00:17:07,858
Ziff:
I loved photographing my friends,
294
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,930
and Robert called me and said,"Can you do some nakedpictures of Patti and me?
295
00:17:13,032 --> 00:17:16,400
I want to makea little film called'Garden of Earthly Delights.'"
296
00:17:17,670 --> 00:17:20,370
So then we set up lights on the back of a chair,
297
00:17:20,472 --> 00:17:23,240
and I just took the pictures that he asked for.
298
00:17:25,111 --> 00:17:31,782
Robert and Patti were so beautiful in such an interesting way
299
00:17:31,884 --> 00:17:33,717
and in an unconventional way,I think.
300
00:17:33,820 --> 00:17:38,355
He exuded this kind of androgynous sexuality,
301
00:17:38,457 --> 00:17:40,291
and so did Patti.
302
00:17:40,392 --> 00:17:42,392
Patti was drawing all the time,
303
00:17:42,494 --> 00:17:46,630
and Robert was drawing all the time and making things.
304
00:17:46,732 --> 00:17:48,265
You know, it was messy.
305
00:17:48,367 --> 00:17:50,667
There was stuff
hanging around,
tacked up on the walls.
306
00:17:50,769 --> 00:17:53,304
It looked like a scene
from a Godard movie.
307
00:17:58,911 --> 00:18:03,113
Smith:
We sat for hours and hours, night after night, drawing
308
00:18:03,216 --> 00:18:07,584
and, you know, drawing fromeach other as well as drawing.
309
00:18:07,686 --> 00:18:12,156
I'm a thief and I dig it.
310
00:18:12,258 --> 00:18:15,159
A good thief never hesitates.
311
00:18:15,261 --> 00:18:17,962
A good thief steals clean.
312
00:18:18,064 --> 00:18:22,132
And I'm stealing now.
And I'm stealing now.
313
00:18:22,235 --> 00:18:24,701
And I'm stealing now.
314
00:18:24,803 --> 00:18:26,703
� �
315
00:18:26,805 --> 00:18:28,239
Reporter:
The Chelsea has been home
316
00:18:28,341 --> 00:18:30,975
for more than a century to a colony of artists
317
00:18:31,077 --> 00:18:33,810
who have also celebrated it in books,
318
00:18:33,913 --> 00:18:36,347
poems, plays, dance, and painting.
319
00:18:39,385 --> 00:18:41,118
Mapplethorpe:
I kept on saying to Patti...
320
00:19:00,106 --> 00:19:03,307
Woman:
I loved them. We were like a family.
321
00:19:03,409 --> 00:19:07,544
He kept telling me I was like a sister.
322
00:19:07,646 --> 00:19:12,016
Patti was working like crazy
to let us live.
323
00:19:12,118 --> 00:19:13,884
I mean, she was very generous,
324
00:19:13,986 --> 00:19:17,654
and she wasn't jealous of me
at all, which is wonderful.
325
00:19:22,061 --> 00:19:24,494
She trusted me with Robert, totally.
326
00:19:24,596 --> 00:19:27,464
I never was in love with him
327
00:19:27,566 --> 00:19:30,734
or had any sexual feelings for him,
328
00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:33,337
but we were very close.
329
00:19:35,808 --> 00:19:40,744
We would sit in my totally white, empty room at the Chelsea,
330
00:19:40,846 --> 00:19:44,714
which supposedly had had Oscar Wilde stay in it,
331
00:19:44,817 --> 00:19:47,117
and had had Jackson Pollock stay in it.
332
00:19:47,219 --> 00:19:51,688
And I had Warhol's clouds floating, the helium clouds.
333
00:19:51,790 --> 00:19:53,523
That's all I had in the room,
334
00:19:53,625 --> 00:19:55,159
and a mattress.
335
00:19:55,261 --> 00:19:57,962
We lived on the floor and it was clean enough to eat off of them.
336
00:19:58,064 --> 00:20:00,965
That's exactly what we did.
337
00:20:01,067 --> 00:20:04,368
It was a 25-hour
art show all the time,
338
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:07,504
or movie set or whatever
you would wanna call the life.
339
00:20:07,606 --> 00:20:09,539
It was just
the life being recorded.
340
00:20:09,641 --> 00:20:12,443
Reporter:
In a stark, sun-drenched studio,
341
00:20:12,544 --> 00:20:15,245
lives filmmaker Sandra Daley.
342
00:20:15,348 --> 00:20:17,047
Daley:
I called him up, I said,
343
00:20:17,149 --> 00:20:19,583
"Could you bring over some of the things
344
00:20:19,685 --> 00:20:21,251
"and put them up on the walls?
345
00:20:21,354 --> 00:20:23,520
Because there's nothing here,
you know, it's all white."
346
00:20:23,622 --> 00:20:26,156
And he came over with the stuff,
347
00:20:26,258 --> 00:20:30,861
and I looked, I thought, "God, leather pants with a cock sticking out."
348
00:20:30,963 --> 00:20:33,063
I thought, "Why not?" It looked fabulous.
349
00:20:33,165 --> 00:20:36,800
Mapplethorpe:
I was working with articles of clothing.
350
00:20:36,869 --> 00:20:38,702
They were kind of like fetish sculpture.
351
00:20:38,804 --> 00:20:42,406
You know, if I had a jacket that I wore all the time, I'd put it in a piece
352
00:20:42,508 --> 00:20:45,642
and, you know. So it was like assemblage.
353
00:20:45,744 --> 00:20:49,413
What's made you
live in the Chelsea
for the past seven years?
354
00:20:50,416 --> 00:20:53,183
Um, my friends,
I guess, live here,
355
00:20:53,285 --> 00:20:56,353
and my teachers.
356
00:20:56,455 --> 00:20:58,088
It's my home.
357
00:20:58,190 --> 00:21:01,625
Daley:
Robert didn't say much.
(laughs)
358
00:21:01,727 --> 00:21:04,995
He didn't talk at all,
did he, in that clip?
359
00:21:09,468 --> 00:21:11,068
Man:
Robert could sit in silence
360
00:21:11,137 --> 00:21:14,038
a lot more comfortably than I could.
361
00:21:15,707 --> 00:21:17,774
I'm Edward Mapplethorpe.
362
00:21:19,245 --> 00:21:21,145
Robert Mapplethorpe's brother.
363
00:21:21,247 --> 00:21:23,047
(laughs)
364
00:21:24,750 --> 00:21:27,351
I was three years of age when he left the house.
365
00:21:27,453 --> 00:21:31,355
I remember just waiting anxiously on my stoop
366
00:21:31,457 --> 00:21:33,524
and knowing Robert and Patti were coming.
367
00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:36,527
And then I'd be like,
"Wow." Like, "Wow,
look at these guys."
368
00:21:36,628 --> 00:21:39,430
I mean, they didn't
look like anybody else.
369
00:21:39,532 --> 00:21:41,265
They didn't talk like anybody else.
370
00:21:41,367 --> 00:21:43,667
I would say, creature. They were like creatures.
371
00:21:43,769 --> 00:21:46,002
Just the way he dressed,
the way he carried himself.
372
00:21:46,105 --> 00:21:50,374
The way his hair was,
the way, uh...
373
00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:52,476
It was just...
374
00:21:53,579 --> 00:21:56,746
It encompassed him.
375
00:21:56,848 --> 00:22:00,684
The art,
the artist encompassed him.
376
00:22:00,786 --> 00:22:04,188
There was no separation.
377
00:22:11,230 --> 00:22:14,598
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
378
00:22:46,198 --> 00:22:47,631
Wow.
379
00:22:48,667 --> 00:22:51,201
Daley:
I see them as exquisite.
380
00:22:52,471 --> 00:22:54,738
Most porn looks amateurish
381
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,875
and lower class.
382
00:23:00,779 --> 00:23:03,947
Just make it look like,
383
00:23:04,049 --> 00:23:07,251
I think I said a Louis Quinze chair,
384
00:23:07,353 --> 00:23:10,754
so that it just
takes your breath away.
385
00:23:10,856 --> 00:23:14,658
It doesn't matter
what the subject matter is.
386
00:23:16,162 --> 00:23:20,897
It's like a love story...
to porn, maybe.
387
00:23:23,202 --> 00:23:25,135
Mapplethorpe:
There was a feeling I could get
388
00:23:25,237 --> 00:23:27,538
through looking at pornographic imagery,
389
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,507
and I thought if I could somehow retain that feeling, you know,
390
00:23:30,609 --> 00:23:33,710
it was like,maybe it was the forbiddenbecause I was young, you know.
391
00:23:33,812 --> 00:23:37,714
That if I could get that across and make an art statement,
392
00:23:37,816 --> 00:23:41,051
make it do it in a way that just kind of, like,
393
00:23:41,153 --> 00:23:43,019
reached a certain kind of perfection
394
00:23:43,121 --> 00:23:47,791
that I would be doing something that was uniquely my own.
395
00:23:47,893 --> 00:23:50,894
Female curator:
Oh, and that one even includes a camera.
396
00:23:50,996 --> 00:23:52,962
Right.
And that--
He highlighted it.
397
00:23:53,065 --> 00:23:55,332
And this was before he was
even making photographs.
I think.
398
00:23:55,434 --> 00:23:58,268
But this is when
he started thinking,
"It may be cheaper for me..."
399
00:23:58,370 --> 00:24:01,605
Yeah. Yeah.
...to take photographs
than buy all this porn.
400
00:24:02,708 --> 00:24:04,341
Announcer:
Same great film...
401
00:24:04,443 --> 00:24:08,078
Mapplethorpe:
I wanted raw materialthat originated with myself.
402
00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:11,948
I felt that I was stealing them from other people,
403
00:24:12,050 --> 00:24:14,951
and so that's howI started with the Polaroids.
404
00:24:15,053 --> 00:24:17,821
You know, it was not becauseI wanted to be a photographer.
405
00:24:17,923 --> 00:24:19,723
� �
406
00:24:19,825 --> 00:24:21,491
Smith:
We had a Polaroid camera
407
00:24:21,594 --> 00:24:24,094
and Polaroid film was really expensive,
408
00:24:24,162 --> 00:24:29,399
so my focus was always that Robert got what he needed first.
409
00:24:29,501 --> 00:24:32,536
And we had so little money for film.
410
00:24:32,638 --> 00:24:36,273
We concentrated on getting him the film.
411
00:24:36,375 --> 00:24:39,008
Mapplethorpe:
It was all there from the start.
412
00:24:39,111 --> 00:24:41,578
And when I first started taking Polaroids,
413
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,014
I was working with photographsthat dealt with sexuality,
414
00:24:45,117 --> 00:24:48,952
portraits, flowers, and still lives
415
00:24:49,054 --> 00:24:51,655
because I used the still livesto experiment with lighting.
416
00:24:51,757 --> 00:24:56,260
These are the first times
that Robert took emulsion.
417
00:24:56,362 --> 00:25:01,398
He washed it off
of the Polaroid till it
floated above the base
418
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,667
and stretched them out.
419
00:25:03,769 --> 00:25:05,736
That's me, ugly as ever.
420
00:25:05,837 --> 00:25:07,671
Here's Patti.
421
00:25:10,643 --> 00:25:14,110
And that's David Croland.
422
00:25:14,212 --> 00:25:16,647
Croland:
I'm really not a model anymore.
423
00:25:16,749 --> 00:25:20,317
I'm just a... you know, an object.
424
00:25:20,419 --> 00:25:23,353
If you want an explanationof why I'm wearing this robe,
425
00:25:23,455 --> 00:25:26,923
it's for Robert,
and Robert liked robes,
426
00:25:27,025 --> 00:25:29,159
and he liked black silk.
427
00:25:29,261 --> 00:25:31,695
And I thought twice
about it, and then I thought,
428
00:25:31,797 --> 00:25:34,998
"You're not gonna
think three times."
429
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:38,535
Patti is the first girl
he photographed for Polaroid
430
00:25:38,637 --> 00:25:40,370
and I was the first boy.
431
00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:42,205
(pops lips)
432
00:25:42,308 --> 00:25:47,411
I met Robert in 1970
on Memorial Day,
433
00:25:47,513 --> 00:25:50,314
on a steamy hot day.
434
00:25:50,416 --> 00:25:52,182
As soon as he got his camera,
435
00:25:52,284 --> 00:25:54,785
the film was loaded
and my clothes were off.
436
00:25:54,886 --> 00:25:58,388
Starting with a robe
437
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:01,758
and then the robe was, like,
here, et cetera, et cetera.
438
00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:03,627
He photographed me a lot in that.
439
00:26:03,729 --> 00:26:06,930
And in those days, I just thought, "Who cares? Polaroid film?"
440
00:26:07,032 --> 00:26:09,199
I was used
to being photographed
by the big format,
441
00:26:09,267 --> 00:26:12,469
you know, by...
Should we drop some names?
442
00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:13,870
Someone said,
"Stop dropping names."
443
00:26:13,972 --> 00:26:16,406
I said, "I can't help it if
everyone I know is fantastic."
444
00:26:16,508 --> 00:26:20,109
So I thought these Polaroids were like, "What the hell are these?"
445
00:26:20,212 --> 00:26:24,280
I saw very quickly that he wasn't just stacking up a bunch of Polaroids.
446
00:26:24,383 --> 00:26:25,716
He was making
stuff out of them.
447
00:26:25,818 --> 00:26:31,555
He was incorporating them into a new type of art,
448
00:26:31,657 --> 00:26:33,890
which no one was doing.
449
00:26:33,992 --> 00:26:35,659
No one.
450
00:26:35,761 --> 00:26:36,960
Uh-uh.
451
00:26:37,062 --> 00:26:42,632
And then someone called Pattito say they are boyfriends.
452
00:26:42,735 --> 00:26:47,604
So that was...
We were busted.
453
00:26:47,706 --> 00:26:50,440
Patti knew that I was helping Robert,
454
00:26:50,542 --> 00:26:53,543
so there was no animosity, not at all.
455
00:26:53,645 --> 00:26:55,645
At least, I don't think so.
456
00:26:57,483 --> 00:27:00,216
When you're young, you don't
have much of a conscience.
457
00:27:00,318 --> 00:27:04,220
I mean, when you're young,
I don't even know
if you think.
458
00:27:04,322 --> 00:27:08,759
I don't even think it's a good
idea to think, to this day.
459
00:27:08,861 --> 00:27:10,827
It's just better to do stuff.
460
00:27:12,765 --> 00:27:15,632
Daley:
I had this small amount of money.
461
00:27:15,734 --> 00:27:17,267
I could make a movie.
462
00:27:17,369 --> 00:27:21,204
I said, "Robert, you can pick
out anything you want to do."
463
00:27:21,306 --> 00:27:23,407
Mapplethorpe:
I just thought it would be interesting to have
464
00:27:23,509 --> 00:27:25,008
a ring through your tit
465
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:27,977
because I maybe seen it in a movie or something,
466
00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:31,782
but it wasn't something anybody had at that moment.
467
00:27:31,884 --> 00:27:35,685
And all of a sudden, there was a whole situation where I was...
468
00:27:35,788 --> 00:27:38,922
to get my nipple pierced.
469
00:27:39,024 --> 00:27:42,459
I had done a number of films
for Andy Warhol,
470
00:27:42,561 --> 00:27:43,860
so I was used--
471
00:27:43,962 --> 00:27:47,497
and as a model
I was used to having
the camera trained on me.
472
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:49,332
Yes.
473
00:27:49,435 --> 00:27:52,702
But I had no idea where that film was going.
474
00:27:52,805 --> 00:27:55,839
Where that film went was to the Museum of Modern Art,
475
00:27:55,941 --> 00:27:59,810
and it showed there at a big screening.
476
00:27:59,912 --> 00:28:01,878
Man:
MoMA was very crowded,
477
00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:05,081
and I was writing film reviewsthen for the "Village Voice,"
478
00:28:05,183 --> 00:28:07,651
and I remember Robert was
standing against the wall
479
00:28:07,753 --> 00:28:11,387
and he had this sort of
angelic kind of hair,
480
00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:14,458
and I guess I had a crush
on him and whatever.
481
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,762
Right way, in my mind,
I saw him as an angel
and a devil.
482
00:28:21,166 --> 00:28:24,601
Daley:
Then Patti has this brilliant monologue
483
00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:28,071
that she did as the soundtrack.
484
00:28:28,173 --> 00:28:30,774
Smith (in Jersey accent):
I read this book,Robert had this book in his--
485
00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,510
he had this book in his drawercalled "Leather Boys,"
486
00:28:33,612 --> 00:28:36,346
and, like, I picked it up the other night because he went out.
487
00:28:36,448 --> 00:28:39,983
Once he got his leather pants, he would be down on Christopher Street.
488
00:28:41,286 --> 00:28:43,687
Like, it was like my boyfriend or nothing.
489
00:28:43,789 --> 00:28:45,922
I guess the reason-- the only reason I don't like it
490
00:28:46,024 --> 00:28:47,791
is because, like, they got secrets.
491
00:28:49,995 --> 00:28:52,896
Colacello:
"In sharp counterpointto the delicacy of the visuals
492
00:28:52,998 --> 00:28:57,200
"is the harsh and hilarious soundtrack by Patti Smith,
493
00:28:57,302 --> 00:28:59,970
"poet, Robert's ex-girlfriend..."
494
00:29:00,071 --> 00:29:03,239
"...who, it seems, dislikes
homosexuals because,
495
00:29:03,341 --> 00:29:05,909
"A, she feels left out,
496
00:29:06,011 --> 00:29:09,012
and B, they use
their assholes."
497
00:29:09,114 --> 00:29:10,580
(chuckles)
498
00:29:10,682 --> 00:29:14,618
He called me after the review
came out and said that
he really liked it
499
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,354
and could we, like,
meet for a cup of coffee
or something.
500
00:29:18,456 --> 00:29:21,825
� �
501
00:29:26,698 --> 00:29:30,466
Robert and I would, you know, meet up, like, at 4:00 in the afternoon,
502
00:29:30,569 --> 00:29:32,769
go into somedeserted restaurant and sit--
503
00:29:32,871 --> 00:29:35,405
you know, just order coffee,
504
00:29:35,507 --> 00:29:37,340
and he only had
a Polaroid then.
505
00:29:37,442 --> 00:29:39,676
He didn't even have a camera.
506
00:29:39,778 --> 00:29:43,847
But he was already,
you know, planning on
his first exhibition,
507
00:29:43,949 --> 00:29:46,950
and who he was going to invite
and who he hoped would come.
508
00:29:47,052 --> 00:29:49,485
Brunnick:
This is Robert Mapplethorpe's announcement
509
00:29:49,588 --> 00:29:51,387
for his first solo exhibition.
510
00:29:51,489 --> 00:29:55,792
The envelope is embossed
by Tiffany and Company.
511
00:29:57,763 --> 00:29:59,328
It was a show of Polaroids.
512
00:29:59,431 --> 00:30:05,234
He encased his announcement
in the "don't touch here"
safety cover
513
00:30:05,336 --> 00:30:07,704
from the Polaroid film pack.
514
00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:10,206
Terpak:
Mapplethorpe says
in several interviews,
515
00:30:10,308 --> 00:30:13,209
"An exhibition doesn't begin
when you go to the opening.
516
00:30:13,278 --> 00:30:16,479
It begins when
you get the invitation."
517
00:30:16,582 --> 00:30:19,549
Brunnick:
It's a small dot sticker...
518
00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:22,218
that's really not opaque.
519
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,821
(laughing)
520
00:30:24,923 --> 00:30:28,024
Woman:
But what do you want the viewer to feel
521
00:30:28,126 --> 00:30:29,759
when they open that invitation?
522
00:30:29,861 --> 00:30:32,662
Mapplethorpe:
I want them to remember it, that's all.
523
00:30:32,764 --> 00:30:34,598
Woman:
You're thinking of, like,
524
00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:37,433
standing out from this huge mass--
525
00:30:37,535 --> 00:30:40,770
Mapplethorpe:
Why can't it be in terms of one's whole lifestyle?
526
00:30:40,872 --> 00:30:42,171
You know what I'm saying?
527
00:30:42,273 --> 00:30:47,577
The whole point of being an artist or making a statement
528
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:49,378
is to learn about yourself.
529
00:30:49,481 --> 00:30:51,514
I think that's the most important part.
530
00:30:51,617 --> 00:30:54,851
The photographs, I think, are less important
531
00:30:54,953 --> 00:30:58,154
than the life that one is leading.
532
00:30:58,256 --> 00:31:00,957
� �
533
00:31:09,567 --> 00:31:14,804
I would just run around
and give people their food.
534
00:31:14,906 --> 00:31:19,676
And it really was
a comprehensive scene
of downtown artists.
535
00:31:19,778 --> 00:31:25,982
Not a closed world, but it was, you know, almost like a clubhouse in a way.
536
00:31:30,522 --> 00:31:34,223
Woman:
I probably saw Robertalmost every night of my life.
537
00:31:34,325 --> 00:31:38,628
You know, most people that I knew lived in such horrible places
538
00:31:38,730 --> 00:31:42,666
that you really only knew where they lived if you had sex with them.
539
00:31:42,768 --> 00:31:46,036
Lots of times in Max's,
he would come and sit with me,
you know.
540
00:31:46,138 --> 00:31:48,371
It was probably the time I enjoyed Robert the most
541
00:31:48,473 --> 00:31:50,506
because he was an incredibly amusing gossip.
542
00:31:50,608 --> 00:31:54,644
He was extremely good-looking
in a very particular way,
you know.
543
00:31:54,746 --> 00:31:57,380
Croland:
No one that saw Robert
544
00:31:57,482 --> 00:32:00,283
did not have a crush on him immediately.
545
00:32:00,385 --> 00:32:03,553
No one. Everyone.
Dogs liked him.
546
00:32:03,655 --> 00:32:08,058
He looked kind of like,
you know, a kind of
ruined cupid.
547
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,196
And he was very reliant
on his charm, you know.
548
00:32:13,298 --> 00:32:16,166
I mean, in other words,
he made great use of it,
549
00:32:16,267 --> 00:32:18,668
by which I mean,
productive to Robert.
550
00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:22,438
Croland:
Robert was not a hustler.Robert didn't have to hustle.
551
00:32:22,540 --> 00:32:25,108
People hustled Robert...
552
00:32:25,210 --> 00:32:28,078
mainly out of his pants
if they could.
553
00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:29,713
Me too, by the way.
554
00:32:29,815 --> 00:32:34,884
Robert didn't think anything
was wrong with his ambition.
555
00:32:34,986 --> 00:32:36,720
He didn't think of it
as selling out.
556
00:32:36,822 --> 00:32:42,225
He didn't think--
He just, you know, pursued it
the way that people now do.
557
00:32:42,327 --> 00:32:44,994
Man:
Was Robert ambitious?
558
00:32:47,165 --> 00:32:50,233
There is no word for it.
559
00:32:50,335 --> 00:32:52,668
For either of them.
560
00:32:52,771 --> 00:32:57,207
That is an understatement.
561
00:32:57,308 --> 00:32:59,042
For both of them.
562
00:33:03,081 --> 00:33:04,513
Yeah.
563
00:33:07,152 --> 00:33:08,885
Unbelievably.
564
00:33:09,921 --> 00:33:11,687
Colacello:
I went away for a summer,
565
00:33:11,790 --> 00:33:16,092
and when I got back,
Robert was suddenly into S&M.
566
00:33:17,229 --> 00:33:19,863
Croland:
One day, I showed up at his place
567
00:33:19,965 --> 00:33:21,597
and he was wearing leather pants
568
00:33:21,699 --> 00:33:24,167
and it looked like a radio
attached to his crotch.
569
00:33:24,269 --> 00:33:25,668
I said,
"What the hell is that?"
570
00:33:25,771 --> 00:33:28,337
He said, "Oh, it's a codpiece.
Isn't it great?"
571
00:33:28,439 --> 00:33:31,707
I said, "This is likethe beginning of the end ifyou keep dressing like this."
572
00:33:31,810 --> 00:33:37,113
He started to trick me out
in leather jackets
and handcuffs.
573
00:33:37,215 --> 00:33:41,317
He started to get
not me, at all,
574
00:33:41,419 --> 00:33:43,119
and more him,
575
00:33:43,221 --> 00:33:45,855
and he wanted me to go-- always to go further.
576
00:33:45,957 --> 00:33:50,459
And I thought,
"That's not gonna happen.
I'm a model."
577
00:33:51,930 --> 00:33:57,466
Sam Wagstaff, I only knew thathe was eccentric, handsome,
578
00:33:57,568 --> 00:34:02,405
and then when
he took me to this loft
later that day, rich.
579
00:34:02,507 --> 00:34:05,608
But right before we went to his loft on Bond Street,
580
00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:09,212
he spied a little, tiny picture of Robert
581
00:34:09,314 --> 00:34:12,148
taken in a photo booth with a little sailor cap on.
582
00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:14,083
It looked like a Jean Genet drawing.
583
00:34:14,186 --> 00:34:16,419
And he said, "Who is this?"
584
00:34:16,521 --> 00:34:19,455
I said, "That's my soon-to-be ex-boyfriend."
585
00:34:19,557 --> 00:34:22,391
So I called Robert up
and I said, "Listen.
586
00:34:22,493 --> 00:34:24,593
"Your ship's come in,
it's in my harbor.
587
00:34:24,696 --> 00:34:26,229
"You're gonna
jump on this boat.
588
00:34:26,331 --> 00:34:30,834
You're gonna love him, he's gonna love you, I can tell."
589
00:34:30,936 --> 00:34:33,102
They had a date that week,
590
00:34:33,205 --> 00:34:36,239
and they fell in love
very quickly.
591
00:34:36,341 --> 00:34:38,908
Sam was his protector,
in every way.
592
00:34:39,010 --> 00:34:41,777
You know, in the way that
girls are protected by men.
593
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,881
It was a beautiful match.
594
00:34:44,983 --> 00:34:48,718
Beautiful. Really beautiful.
595
00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:52,155
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
596
00:35:13,711 --> 00:35:17,480
I knew other people who had
older guys who supported them
and stuff like that,
597
00:35:17,582 --> 00:35:19,715
but Sam devoted himself.
598
00:35:19,817 --> 00:35:21,384
The career Robert had,
599
00:35:21,486 --> 00:35:23,486
I don't believe
would've existed without Sam.
600
00:35:23,588 --> 00:35:26,055
� �
601
00:35:42,173 --> 00:35:46,442
I met him when he moved
next to us on Bond Street,
602
00:35:46,544 --> 00:35:49,712
so he was literally
the boy next door,
603
00:35:49,814 --> 00:35:53,749
and we just instantly
became friends.
604
00:35:55,220 --> 00:35:59,389
Woman:
It's this little cobblestone street in New York.
605
00:35:59,490 --> 00:36:03,426
Robert lived at 24 Bond Street,
606
00:36:03,528 --> 00:36:07,130
and Brice and Helen Marden lived at 26 Bond Street,
607
00:36:07,232 --> 00:36:09,465
and I lived at 42 Bond Street.
608
00:36:09,567 --> 00:36:13,669
And the '70s in New York was
very different than now.
609
00:36:13,771 --> 00:36:16,139
New York was bankrupt,
610
00:36:16,241 --> 00:36:19,342
things were pretty corrupt and violent.
611
00:36:19,444 --> 00:36:20,977
There was a lot of crime,
612
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:25,514
and, you know, Bond and Bowerywas in the middle of,
613
00:36:25,616 --> 00:36:29,785
you know, people sleeping in the doorways
614
00:36:29,887 --> 00:36:32,055
and lying on the streets,
615
00:36:32,157 --> 00:36:35,091
but it was the art world.
616
00:36:37,395 --> 00:36:40,330
Woman:
When we first moved here, I was hysterical.
617
00:36:40,432 --> 00:36:43,799
I said, "We've just spent
40,000 bucks on this dump.
618
00:36:43,901 --> 00:36:45,568
"And look at this area.
Look at this."
619
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:48,004
I mean, it's, like, miles
before you can get
620
00:36:48,106 --> 00:36:50,940
to a restaurant,
a grocery store,
621
00:36:51,042 --> 00:36:53,476
you know, a light at night,
the place is dark.
622
00:36:53,578 --> 00:36:56,112
You had this beautiful,
free-flowing stream,
623
00:36:56,214 --> 00:36:58,581
then there'd be all
the soapsuds and garbage.
624
00:36:58,683 --> 00:37:01,284
Junkies.
You see, that's the way
Bond Street was.
625
00:37:01,386 --> 00:37:05,321
Helen:
And now, of course,the last time I tracked it,
626
00:37:05,423 --> 00:37:10,093
the penthousein that building, I think,sold for 19 million.
627
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:16,299
I never thought we'd haveany money. Did you?
628
00:37:16,401 --> 00:37:21,037
No, it wasn't--
it wasn't the intention.
629
00:37:21,139 --> 00:37:25,508
I mean, it wasn't as though it was just a band of innocents, you know.
630
00:37:25,610 --> 00:37:31,214
You came to New York because you felt you had to be in New York,
631
00:37:31,282 --> 00:37:36,085
you know, or else you would have just gone to some place that was nice to live.
632
00:37:38,189 --> 00:37:39,555
Helen:
He loved coming over
633
00:37:39,657 --> 00:37:41,590
and taking photographsof my bats.
634
00:37:41,692 --> 00:37:44,994
You know, he wasn'tRobert Mapplethorpein the beginning.
635
00:37:45,096 --> 00:37:50,233
You know, there wasno thought that this wasRobert Mapplethorpe, right?
636
00:37:50,335 --> 00:37:51,934
Right, Brice?
Right, yeah.
637
00:37:52,037 --> 00:37:56,939
Nothing, you know. We were
just all doing our work
and chatting about it.
638
00:37:58,576 --> 00:38:01,511
Colacello:
We'd go to these funny little used book stores
639
00:38:01,612 --> 00:38:05,548
and they'd have, like, cardboard boxes filled with old postcards
640
00:38:05,650 --> 00:38:07,417
and filled with
old photo prints,
641
00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:09,552
and Robert would go through
them and he'd find, you know,
642
00:38:09,654 --> 00:38:13,822
a Weston or a Steichen or something.
643
00:38:13,925 --> 00:38:17,260
And it was like no one knew what it was, and it was like $5 or $10,
644
00:38:17,362 --> 00:38:22,231
and he would do that much moreonce he got together with Sam.
645
00:38:22,333 --> 00:38:25,268
Mapplethorpe: See, what happened is I started collecting photography,
646
00:38:25,370 --> 00:38:29,872
so I studied it through holding these pictures in my hand,
647
00:38:29,974 --> 00:38:32,675
which is probably the best wayto study photography.
648
00:38:32,777 --> 00:38:37,012
Robert and I liked to lie
on his bed and look at all
the photographs Sam bought,
649
00:38:37,115 --> 00:38:41,284
and then he would tell me
how much they were worth
and we would laugh.
650
00:38:41,386 --> 00:38:42,885
(laughing)
651
00:38:42,987 --> 00:38:46,556
Never having really looked
at photographs as art,
652
00:38:46,657 --> 00:38:51,227
it really took Robert
to bring me to photography.
653
00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:54,730
(chattering)
654
00:38:54,832 --> 00:38:55,864
What are you up to?
655
00:38:55,967 --> 00:38:56,932
I've been working.
656
00:38:57,034 --> 00:38:59,102
You should see
some of Robert's works.
657
00:38:59,204 --> 00:39:00,669
I'll be getting down
after the sale.
658
00:39:00,771 --> 00:39:04,840
Wagstaff:
There was something about the quality
659
00:39:04,942 --> 00:39:09,712
of even the Polaroids, which startled me.
660
00:39:09,814 --> 00:39:14,883
Something very knife-sharp about his work.
661
00:39:14,986 --> 00:39:17,920
I think this is the most
intimate thing we have
in the archive
662
00:39:18,022 --> 00:39:20,123
between Sam and Robert.
Mm-hmm.
663
00:39:20,225 --> 00:39:21,390
Robert doesn't write,
664
00:39:21,493 --> 00:39:26,061
so in a way, this linen album
is his love letter to Sam.
665
00:39:26,164 --> 00:39:29,432
You can see the dialogue
that's going on between them
666
00:39:29,534 --> 00:39:33,969
about photography, and love
and all that sexuality.
667
00:39:34,071 --> 00:39:35,371
Yeah.
668
00:39:35,473 --> 00:39:38,707
Wagstaff:
I used to be slightly embarrassed
669
00:39:38,809 --> 00:39:44,247
by certain photographs that Robert took.
670
00:39:44,349 --> 00:39:48,050
He helped me get over that.
671
00:39:48,153 --> 00:39:50,319
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
672
00:40:00,465 --> 00:40:07,002
Robert, has always liked
to play on the edge
of pornography.
673
00:40:07,104 --> 00:40:09,805
Mapplethorpe:
I always was fascinated with the idea
674
00:40:09,907 --> 00:40:12,908
of taking a loaded subject like sexuality
675
00:40:13,010 --> 00:40:17,846
and somehow bringing it to a level that it hadn't been to before.
676
00:40:17,948 --> 00:40:21,317
Wagstaff:
He's absolutely wedded to truth
677
00:40:21,419 --> 00:40:27,557
and opens it up in front of his camera in an almost surgical way.
678
00:40:27,659 --> 00:40:29,892
Mapplethorpe:
And I remember somebody saying,
679
00:40:29,994 --> 00:40:32,628
"You know, you reallyshouldn't do that because it'sgonna fuck up your career."
680
00:40:32,730 --> 00:40:36,632
And I said I thought it was stupid for him to even think that way.
681
00:40:36,734 --> 00:40:40,403
I was convinced that what I was doing was the right thing to be doing.
682
00:40:40,505 --> 00:40:43,673
� �
683
00:40:52,149 --> 00:40:57,320
Berlin:
I met Robert in the early '70s on Fire Island,
684
00:40:57,422 --> 00:41:02,258
where his friend, Wagstaff,
was renting a beautiful house
685
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,294
and they invited me to stay.
686
00:41:08,233 --> 00:41:11,567
The '70s was a sexual time,
687
00:41:11,669 --> 00:41:15,170
and Fire Island, we went for sex,
688
00:41:15,273 --> 00:41:21,977
for that
beautiful availability
of sexual encounters.
689
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:27,450
I mean, the drugs were floating around.
690
00:41:27,552 --> 00:41:29,719
It was heaven.
691
00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:34,257
Whenever we went out,
I was recognized, right?
692
00:41:34,359 --> 00:41:37,627
And people stopped me
and Robert liked that,
693
00:41:37,729 --> 00:41:43,432
and he was craving
for fame and he enjoyed
to be seen with me,
694
00:41:43,534 --> 00:41:50,606
but he was sort of
feeling he should be the one
who should be recognized.
695
00:41:50,708 --> 00:41:55,978
And so I agreed,as a friend, to pose for him.
696
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,381
Then when the weekend was over,
697
00:41:58,483 --> 00:42:05,087
Robert went back to New York
City to work on his career.
698
00:42:05,189 --> 00:42:07,890
For me, the ambition was to get laid.
699
00:42:07,992 --> 00:42:12,928
Robert's ambition was
to be a great photographer
and that's why he is,
700
00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:18,000
because in order
to be a Mapplethorpe,
you had to work hard.
701
00:42:18,102 --> 00:42:21,136
� �
702
00:42:21,238 --> 00:42:23,272
Man:
He walked into my office at "Drummer,"
703
00:42:23,374 --> 00:42:26,342
a major gay magazine where I was the editor,
704
00:42:26,444 --> 00:42:28,977
wearing leather chaps and a leather jacket,
705
00:42:29,079 --> 00:42:31,347
carrying a black leather portfolio,
706
00:42:31,449 --> 00:42:35,217
and said, "Hello,
I'm Robert Mapplethorpe,
707
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,219
the pornographic
photographer."
708
00:42:37,322 --> 00:42:39,755
Well, everybody that came
to my desk
709
00:42:39,857 --> 00:42:41,757
was a pornographic
photographer.
710
00:42:41,859 --> 00:42:44,794
The problem in the '70s
was everybody was having sex.
711
00:42:44,895 --> 00:42:46,429
Photographers
weren't shooting,
712
00:42:46,531 --> 00:42:48,798
painters weren't painting,
writers weren't writing,
713
00:42:48,899 --> 00:42:50,800
but Robert was functioning.
714
00:42:50,901 --> 00:42:53,035
And we ended up in bed, then we became
715
00:42:53,137 --> 00:42:56,872
bicoastal lovers for the next three years.
716
00:42:56,974 --> 00:42:59,575
He knew that he needed to be written about,
717
00:42:59,677 --> 00:43:01,910
which is one of the reasons he came to "Drummer."
718
00:43:02,012 --> 00:43:04,279
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
719
00:43:08,453 --> 00:43:10,720
Fritscher:
I was just one of many writers that he approached.
720
00:43:10,822 --> 00:43:13,889
I mean, nearly all of his
friends were writers.
721
00:43:13,991 --> 00:43:15,558
He wanted to be a legend.
722
00:43:15,660 --> 00:43:19,795
He told me he wanted to be
a story told in beds at night
around the world.
723
00:43:19,897 --> 00:43:22,064
He had that kind of drive,
724
00:43:22,166 --> 00:43:25,501
and in a way, that's part
of what makes geniuses,
725
00:43:25,603 --> 00:43:29,805
this self-centeredness
and this ability
to use people.
726
00:43:29,907 --> 00:43:32,375
So I was someone
who could help Robert.
727
00:43:32,477 --> 00:43:36,412
I had that power of being editor of "Interview,"
728
00:43:36,514 --> 00:43:38,347
but I don't think we used him that much
729
00:43:38,449 --> 00:43:40,883
because I was aware that Andy didn't like him.
730
00:43:40,985 --> 00:43:43,419
He always just said,
"Oh, he's so dirty-looking,"
731
00:43:43,521 --> 00:43:45,488
and, you know,
"He's so creepy,"
732
00:43:45,590 --> 00:43:47,456
and Andy didn't like
anybody who took Polaroids.
733
00:43:47,558 --> 00:43:51,226
He thought he sort of was
the only person who should
be taking Polaroids.
734
00:43:51,328 --> 00:43:57,199
But once Andy realized thatRobert was with Sam Wagstaff,he started to like him.
735
00:43:57,301 --> 00:44:01,036
So it was okay for me to thenuse him for "Interview,"
736
00:44:01,138 --> 00:44:03,472
and we sent him to Mustique.
737
00:44:06,577 --> 00:44:11,179
We met Robert, my husband
and I, on our way to Mustique,
738
00:44:11,282 --> 00:44:14,617
in a private little plane.
739
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,819
I haven't heard of him at all,
740
00:44:16,921 --> 00:44:19,254
but I was fascinated by his mind,
741
00:44:19,356 --> 00:44:22,925
and on top of that,
he was so good-looking.
742
00:44:23,027 --> 00:44:26,796
He said, at one point,
"I want to photograph you."
743
00:44:26,898 --> 00:44:28,263
And I said, "No way."
744
00:44:28,365 --> 00:44:29,965
And he said, "You know what?
745
00:44:30,067 --> 00:44:32,868
"You might regret it later,
746
00:44:32,970 --> 00:44:37,339
"because I'm going
to be a fantastic
and great photographer,
747
00:44:37,442 --> 00:44:40,743
and you're not going to have
a photograph taken by me."
748
00:44:43,147 --> 00:44:45,481
Colacello:
He was a big hit with the aristocracy,
749
00:44:45,583 --> 00:44:48,951
and he loved Mustique and then Mustique loved him.
750
00:44:49,053 --> 00:44:52,287
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
751
00:45:00,765 --> 00:45:02,731
He was living this double
kind of life
752
00:45:02,834 --> 00:45:05,434
where he would be uptown
at a fancy dinner...
Mm-hmm.
753
00:45:05,536 --> 00:45:09,672
...and then he would go
to the Mine Shaft.
754
00:45:09,774 --> 00:45:11,774
It looks well-worn.
755
00:45:11,876 --> 00:45:13,108
(laughing)
756
00:45:13,210 --> 00:45:15,778
Can you imagine it?
It's not just a souvenir.
Back pocket.
757
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,549
Well, that was one of
the key places he went to find
his models, The Mine Shaft.
758
00:45:20,651 --> 00:45:23,118
� �
759
00:45:26,190 --> 00:45:30,292
Fritscher:
What went on in the Mine Shaft for all those years
760
00:45:30,394 --> 00:45:37,065
was two floors of
the most outrageous sex
761
00:45:37,167 --> 00:45:41,236
had this side of Ancient Rome.
762
00:45:41,338 --> 00:45:43,906
All kinds of S&M sex,
763
00:45:44,008 --> 00:45:46,174
scatological sex, fetish sex,
764
00:45:46,276 --> 00:45:49,211
from the sling, to the stocks,to the whipping post.
765
00:45:49,313 --> 00:45:53,849
People talked of a famous bathtub, I mean, there was always somebody in it,
766
00:45:53,951 --> 00:45:58,721
and a ring of men around it, one, two, three layers deep,
767
00:45:58,823 --> 00:46:02,190
everybody jerking off,
touching each other, moving.
768
00:46:02,292 --> 00:46:04,660
It's just like a scrum
around that bathtub.
769
00:46:04,762 --> 00:46:09,431
And then the ones in the firstline would piss all overwhoever was in the bathtub.
770
00:46:11,268 --> 00:46:13,602
Mapplethorpe:
The work dealing with sexuality
771
00:46:13,671 --> 00:46:18,407
is very directly related to my own experiences.
772
00:46:18,509 --> 00:46:24,547
It was an area that hadn't been explored in contemporary art,
773
00:46:24,649 --> 00:46:30,185
and so it was an area that interested me in terms of making my statement.
774
00:46:30,287 --> 00:46:34,456
I was in the perfect situationin that most of the peoplein those photographs
775
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:37,826
were friends of mine, and they trusted me.
776
00:46:37,929 --> 00:46:43,799
And I felt like it was an obligation to record those things.
777
00:46:45,369 --> 00:46:49,504
Robert and I first met...
at The Mine Shaft.
778
00:46:49,607 --> 00:46:51,974
He comes over and I'm like,
"Oh, here it goes.
779
00:46:52,076 --> 00:46:54,209
"We're gonna have an orgy
780
00:46:54,311 --> 00:46:56,445
or go down in the basement."
781
00:46:56,547 --> 00:46:58,413
He was very good-looking,
782
00:46:58,515 --> 00:47:02,084
you know, all in black leather. It was like-- it was hot.
783
00:47:02,186 --> 00:47:04,419
He said, "Let's get out of here,"
784
00:47:04,521 --> 00:47:10,693
and we went home, did a bit
of coke, had some sex.
785
00:47:10,795 --> 00:47:13,361
Very, very, vanilla sex.
786
00:47:13,464 --> 00:47:15,363
He looked bored
out of his mind.
787
00:47:15,466 --> 00:47:17,265
And we were up
in to two hours.
788
00:47:17,367 --> 00:47:23,739
Just as I was nodding off,
get up to do the first shoot.
789
00:47:23,808 --> 00:47:27,576
We did it like 6:30, 7:00 in the morning.
790
00:47:27,678 --> 00:47:31,179
He said he liked the light coming in the window.
791
00:47:31,281 --> 00:47:34,416
Mapplethorpe:
It becomes a documentary in a sense,
792
00:47:34,518 --> 00:47:37,586
though, I'd like to see it more as an autobiography.
793
00:47:37,688 --> 00:47:43,558
You know, it's what I'm involved with at any given moment.
794
00:47:48,633 --> 00:47:50,265
Leave that open.
795
00:47:54,404 --> 00:47:56,705
I did this
in a shop window.
796
00:47:59,710 --> 00:48:02,144
� �
797
00:48:05,149 --> 00:48:11,286
This is Hockney,
and this is a young
film directress from LA.
798
00:48:11,388 --> 00:48:15,390
I remember this one time
we were at his studio
799
00:48:15,492 --> 00:48:18,393
and he said, "Do you wanna see
my private stuff?"
800
00:48:18,495 --> 00:48:20,462
At that point, all of
his stuff was very taboo.
801
00:48:20,564 --> 00:48:24,066
None of this stuff was
out in public when he was
showing it to us.
802
00:48:24,168 --> 00:48:26,035
It wasn't. It wasn't.
Yeah.
803
00:48:26,137 --> 00:48:30,172
Robert lived not too far
east of my apartment,
804
00:48:30,274 --> 00:48:32,307
so I just walked there.
805
00:48:33,644 --> 00:48:35,978
I remember, as I got closer and closer,
806
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,514
that I felt
increasingly more frightened.
807
00:48:39,616 --> 00:48:43,185
Edward:
I was a bit anxious, and I look up
808
00:48:43,287 --> 00:48:49,591
and there's Robert
up on the fire escape,
smoking a cigarette,
809
00:48:49,694 --> 00:48:51,860
and I was like,
"Okay, here we go."
810
00:48:51,962 --> 00:48:53,762
(elevator dings)
811
00:48:55,666 --> 00:48:57,766
A hand-operated elevator.
812
00:49:00,237 --> 00:49:02,270
Five flights.
813
00:49:04,408 --> 00:49:08,443
Very low lit. Devil figures.
814
00:49:10,114 --> 00:49:11,880
Mysterious. It's creepy.
815
00:49:11,982 --> 00:49:14,850
The first thing
that struck me about him,
816
00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:20,856
he was not at all,
you know, the kind of person
817
00:49:20,958 --> 00:49:24,559
that one might think
might make these kind
of photographs.
818
00:49:24,661 --> 00:49:27,696
Yeah. Well, this...
Mapplethorpe:
This will pick up?
819
00:49:27,798 --> 00:49:29,364
Yeah, this will pick up better.
820
00:49:29,466 --> 00:49:32,101
Okay. Now...
821
00:49:32,203 --> 00:49:34,336
He said,
"oh, is that a Sony?"
822
00:49:34,438 --> 00:49:36,839
And I said,
"No, it's not,"
and he said,
823
00:49:36,941 --> 00:49:40,175
"Oh, Panasonic.
Well, Sony is better."
824
00:49:40,277 --> 00:49:44,980
And, you know, teased me
about having the wrong
tape recorder.
825
00:49:46,483 --> 00:49:50,485
Man:
In his early work,Mapplethorpe signed with an X,
826
00:49:50,587 --> 00:49:54,156
so there's a kind of
double entendre here.
827
00:49:54,258 --> 00:50:00,662
Each portfolio, there's
13 gelatin sliver prints
mounted on black board
828
00:50:00,765 --> 00:50:02,865
and signed in graphite.
829
00:50:07,171 --> 00:50:09,071
Mapplethorpe:
Sex is, for me,
830
00:50:09,173 --> 00:50:10,973
probably the most important thing in life.
831
00:50:11,075 --> 00:50:15,844
You know, it's the one area that offers a bit of magic,
832
00:50:15,946 --> 00:50:18,213
a bit of something we don't know about.
833
00:50:19,183 --> 00:50:21,683
Just seeing how
his little brother reacted,
834
00:50:21,786 --> 00:50:24,686
he just-- he dug it.
835
00:50:24,789 --> 00:50:31,760
He loved to get
a jolt out of people
and a reaction
836
00:50:31,862 --> 00:50:36,698
because it was power.
They were powerful.
837
00:50:36,801 --> 00:50:39,268
Mapplethorpe:
I think sexuality, like I portray it,
838
00:50:39,369 --> 00:50:41,904
is very much today, but people, you know,
839
00:50:42,006 --> 00:50:44,372
it would take a few years before people realize that.
840
00:50:44,474 --> 00:50:46,408
Squiers:
And you don't thinkthat you're just existing
841
00:50:46,510 --> 00:50:48,944
in a specializedkind of subculture?
842
00:50:49,046 --> 00:50:50,779
New York is specialized.
843
00:50:50,881 --> 00:50:56,051
but what happens in New York is indicative of America finally.
844
00:50:56,153 --> 00:51:00,289
If I was gonna pick an imagethat I thought was humorous,
845
00:51:00,390 --> 00:51:06,594
I would pick the manin the rubber suit with a hosecoming out of his mouth.
846
00:51:06,697 --> 00:51:09,965
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
847
00:51:13,304 --> 00:51:16,771
That's really disgusting.
(laughing)
848
00:51:24,181 --> 00:51:25,613
(both laughing)
849
00:51:25,716 --> 00:51:30,219
I had grown up with abstract
art, and conceptualism,
850
00:51:30,321 --> 00:51:36,391
and, you know,
nude men in rubber suits
851
00:51:36,493 --> 00:51:39,895
were not part
of my art education.
852
00:51:39,997 --> 00:51:46,034
So it was hard to know
how to talk about them.
853
00:51:47,637 --> 00:51:50,172
Mapplethorpe:
Yeah, I was always amazed that it shocked.
854
00:51:50,274 --> 00:51:53,708
I mean, because once I had a photograph and I had taken it,
855
00:51:53,810 --> 00:51:55,978
it didn't-- it wasn't shocking to me anymore.
856
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,813
I'd been through the experience.
857
00:51:58,916 --> 00:52:00,415
Edward:
Just watching me.
858
00:52:00,517 --> 00:52:02,885
Even though I was perhaps being tested that day,
859
00:52:02,987 --> 00:52:05,287
I wasn't going to fail.
860
00:52:05,389 --> 00:52:09,258
And then I was, like,
"You know, this is cool.
861
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,526
This is cool."
862
00:52:15,532 --> 00:52:16,865
Mapplethorpe:
Maybe they're the best
863
00:52:16,967 --> 00:52:18,833
or the most important pictures I've taken.
864
00:52:18,936 --> 00:52:23,405
When one sees something you've never seen before, it's rather important.
865
00:52:23,507 --> 00:52:25,374
I mean, still, I can show those to people
866
00:52:25,475 --> 00:52:27,976
and they will have never seen that image before.
867
00:52:28,078 --> 00:52:30,145
So it opens something up,
868
00:52:30,247 --> 00:52:34,849
and I think that's what art is about, is opening something up.
869
00:52:34,952 --> 00:52:39,621
A couple of times, he's like,
"So what do you think Dad
would say about that one?"
870
00:52:39,723 --> 00:52:42,324
There are two
that particularly,
871
00:52:42,426 --> 00:52:44,692
you know,
took my breath away.
872
00:52:44,795 --> 00:52:47,896
One was the pinky
inserted into a penis.
873
00:52:50,935 --> 00:52:53,035
That was like, "Oh, my God."
874
00:52:53,137 --> 00:52:55,503
And the other one
was the fist.
875
00:53:00,010 --> 00:53:03,145
Okay, Robert. (chuckling)
876
00:53:03,247 --> 00:53:06,915
I guess you've definitely
found your voice.
877
00:53:08,419 --> 00:53:10,919
Mapplethorpe:
I wanted to do a great fist fucking photograph,
878
00:53:11,021 --> 00:53:12,887
so I did that picture,
879
00:53:12,990 --> 00:53:14,789
and then he said, "Now, it's your turn."
880
00:53:14,891 --> 00:53:17,459
So he sort of pinned me against the wall and says, "Listen..."
881
00:53:22,632 --> 00:53:24,499
Anyway, once I had the picture taken,
882
00:53:24,601 --> 00:53:26,368
I thought it was a really good picture of me.
883
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:29,304
Squiers:
But most people would saythat that image was horrible.
884
00:53:29,406 --> 00:53:31,306
Image of yourself. But once they--
885
00:53:31,408 --> 00:53:33,408
(chuckling)
886
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:34,676
It's a good one.
887
00:53:34,778 --> 00:53:36,445
(laughing)
888
00:53:36,546 --> 00:53:40,882
Robert, he said "I can't have
you go home without giving
Mom and Dad something."
889
00:53:40,985 --> 00:53:43,285
So he just went...
890
00:53:43,387 --> 00:53:45,687
and signed it,
"For Mom and Dad."
891
00:53:45,789 --> 00:53:50,092
It was certainly better than
anything else they he had
up on the wall. Sorry.
892
00:53:50,194 --> 00:53:51,593
(chuckling)
893
00:53:51,695 --> 00:53:54,529
It was an "Easter Lilies" print.
894
00:53:54,631 --> 00:53:56,999
Man:
Are you proud of your son?
895
00:53:57,101 --> 00:54:00,068
Harry:
For the artworkhe did, yes.
896
00:54:00,170 --> 00:54:04,106
But for some ofthe photographs that he took,
897
00:54:04,208 --> 00:54:07,242
I just could not acceptthem either.
898
00:54:07,344 --> 00:54:10,212
He's donea beautiful job on flowers.
899
00:54:10,314 --> 00:54:13,148
There was tension.
There was no doubt about it.
900
00:54:13,250 --> 00:54:16,151
One time in particular
being very, very uncomfortable
901
00:54:16,253 --> 00:54:18,820
because my father
wouldn't look at Robert.
902
00:54:20,924 --> 00:54:23,158
My father wasan electrical engineer.
903
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:25,827
He wore one ofthose penholders.
904
00:54:25,929 --> 00:54:27,295
Robert would makehis attempts.
905
00:54:27,398 --> 00:54:29,364
He came witha Polaroid camera one time
906
00:54:29,466 --> 00:54:34,369
and gave the camera
to my father to--
he did a Polaroid of Robert.
907
00:54:35,705 --> 00:54:38,340
After he left,my father making mention
908
00:54:38,442 --> 00:54:41,343
of how Robertshook people's hands.
909
00:54:41,445 --> 00:54:44,446
It wasn't a manly handshake.
910
00:54:44,548 --> 00:54:46,881
It was a soft-set handshake.
911
00:54:48,818 --> 00:54:50,552
Harry:
Let me say this,
912
00:54:50,654 --> 00:54:55,023
that I thought he was, for quite a length of time,
913
00:54:55,125 --> 00:54:58,026
but I would never even mention it to my wife.
914
00:54:58,128 --> 00:55:00,662
Because as far as my wife is concerned,
915
00:55:00,764 --> 00:55:02,531
he was her favorite.
916
00:55:02,632 --> 00:55:05,300
Nancy:
He and Patti told my parents they were married.
917
00:55:05,402 --> 00:55:08,002
I remember sending her birthday cards.
918
00:55:08,105 --> 00:55:12,840
Patti, whatever,
Mrs. Robert Mapplethorpe.
919
00:55:12,943 --> 00:55:14,509
You know?
920
00:55:14,611 --> 00:55:17,145
I think my father alwayshad suspicions though.
921
00:55:17,247 --> 00:55:21,883
He said, "There's no pictures,
there's no, you know,
there's no certificate."
922
00:55:21,985 --> 00:55:24,286
Man:
Did you resent the fact that he was gay?
923
00:55:24,388 --> 00:55:26,054
Harry:
I did, yes.
924
00:55:26,156 --> 00:55:27,889
I guess I did, yeah.
925
00:55:27,991 --> 00:55:30,592
He never spoketo me about it.
926
00:55:32,062 --> 00:55:35,663
Because I guess he knewI would never accept it.
927
00:55:35,765 --> 00:55:38,833
Admitting that he was gayor telling me that he's gay,
928
00:55:38,935 --> 00:55:42,270
that wouldn't havehelped matters at all.
929
00:55:42,372 --> 00:55:45,807
Because I probably would'vehad more resentment
930
00:55:45,909 --> 00:55:49,511
to that factif he had told me.
931
00:55:52,516 --> 00:55:55,150
So he was really
not part of the family,
932
00:55:55,252 --> 00:55:58,153
you know, and it's sad.
933
00:55:58,255 --> 00:56:00,021
It's sad. I so wish,
934
00:56:00,124 --> 00:56:03,691
I could talk to him now
about it all, you know?
935
00:56:03,793 --> 00:56:08,096
But Robert did-- Robert always
wanted to be famous
936
00:56:08,198 --> 00:56:10,298
and he became famous.
937
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,336
(Ziff reading)
"Dear Lloyd, I finally have a gallery in New York.
938
00:56:14,438 --> 00:56:17,105
"It's run by a woman named Holly Solomon,
939
00:56:17,207 --> 00:56:19,107
"You probably have never heard of it,
940
00:56:19,209 --> 00:56:23,145
but it doesn't seem to be a bad place to be for the moment."
941
00:56:24,248 --> 00:56:28,383
I said,
"Before I show your work,
942
00:56:28,485 --> 00:56:30,718
I would like you to do
my portrait."
943
00:56:30,820 --> 00:56:33,755
And when he took my portrait,
944
00:56:33,857 --> 00:56:37,425
I was convinced that he was an artist,
945
00:56:37,528 --> 00:56:43,231
convinced that he could
manipulate people
extremely well.
946
00:56:43,333 --> 00:56:45,667
And I use the word manipulate.
947
00:56:45,769 --> 00:56:48,803
And so I said "Okay, let's do a show."
948
00:56:48,905 --> 00:56:52,840
"Sam Wagstaff was a great
photography collector."
Holly Solomon said,
949
00:56:52,942 --> 00:56:55,477
"I wouldn't have touched
Robert without Sam.
950
00:56:55,579 --> 00:56:58,513
"And there were others like mewho felt the same way."
951
00:57:03,220 --> 00:57:05,720
Lebowitz:
He had two shows in one day.
952
00:57:05,822 --> 00:57:07,922
One was the S&M pictures,
953
00:57:08,024 --> 00:57:12,527
and then one where the pictures, for, you know, the uptown trade.
954
00:57:12,629 --> 00:57:16,198
And then there was a dinner
that Sam gave, a black-tie
dinner at One Fifth Avenue.
955
00:57:16,300 --> 00:57:19,434
It was very carefully thought out. It was like an ad campaign,
956
00:57:19,536 --> 00:57:20,868
and it worked.
957
00:57:20,970 --> 00:57:22,804
Mapplethorpe:
Sometimes, I think it's better
958
00:57:22,906 --> 00:57:27,576
for the public to be able to separate things
959
00:57:27,678 --> 00:57:31,913
because when you mix them all up, the sex thing overpowers it,
960
00:57:32,015 --> 00:57:36,484
and what happens is they justpick the sex pictures outand that becomes the show.
961
00:57:36,587 --> 00:57:38,486
Woman:
What will you say
to those people
962
00:57:38,589 --> 00:57:43,057
who accuse you
of having a dirty mind?
963
00:57:43,159 --> 00:57:45,760
Well, I don't know what--
I don't know what that
means exactly.
964
00:57:45,862 --> 00:57:50,498
I mean, I think everybody is,in one way or another,involved in sexuality.
965
00:57:50,601 --> 00:57:53,602
So, if you believethat sex is dirty,
966
00:57:53,704 --> 00:57:57,405
everybody hasa dirty mind, I suppose.
967
00:57:57,507 --> 00:58:00,975
But I never considersex being dirty.
968
00:58:01,077 --> 00:58:04,546
Squiers:
The image that particularly riveted me,
969
00:58:04,648 --> 00:58:08,015
was Mark Stevens (Mr. 10 1/2),
970
00:58:08,118 --> 00:58:11,185
with his penis and balls
laid out on the pedestal
971
00:58:11,288 --> 00:58:17,559
as if they were a work of art,
which, in his case, they were.
972
00:58:17,661 --> 00:58:18,760
So...
973
00:58:18,862 --> 00:58:20,595
Artistic photography
is controlled
974
00:58:20,697 --> 00:58:25,400
by very civilized people
in New York City.
975
00:58:25,502 --> 00:58:32,206
And in essence, he was
glamorizing the penis,
976
00:58:32,309 --> 00:58:37,679
which is a very
uncivilized thing to do.
977
00:58:37,781 --> 00:58:41,316
We sold one, only.
978
00:58:41,418 --> 00:58:44,519
So, I bought the whole show from Robert
979
00:58:44,621 --> 00:58:47,589
figuring "Okay,
stuck is stuck."
980
00:58:47,691 --> 00:58:49,857
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
981
00:58:57,867 --> 00:59:00,067
Solomon:
He said, "I want to go uptown,"
982
00:59:00,170 --> 00:59:02,937
and he brought me a present.
983
00:59:03,039 --> 00:59:09,844
The present was
a self-portrait with
the whip up his... tush.
984
00:59:09,946 --> 00:59:12,046
And my husband, he was quite insulted,
985
00:59:12,148 --> 00:59:14,482
and he said, "I'm gonna rip it up," and I said, "No, you're not.
986
00:59:14,584 --> 00:59:18,152
Someday, I'm gonna get handsomely paid for that photograph."
987
00:59:18,254 --> 00:59:20,221
Is that making
a statement about myself?
988
00:59:20,324 --> 00:59:23,358
You know, it's one aspect
of everybody, I suppose,
989
00:59:23,460 --> 00:59:25,760
you know,
sort of the demon within.
990
00:59:25,862 --> 00:59:30,064
There's a sense of humor in what I'm doing,
991
00:59:30,166 --> 00:59:31,766
which I hope people pick up on,
992
00:59:31,868 --> 00:59:35,236
and sometimes they do, and I'm always pleased when people see that.
993
00:59:35,339 --> 00:59:37,872
I don't think he could've
produced the work he produced
994
00:59:37,974 --> 00:59:39,774
if he hadn't been
raised Catholic.
995
00:59:39,876 --> 00:59:44,045
Mapplethorpe:
I think the way I arrange things is very Catholic,
996
00:59:44,147 --> 00:59:46,848
even though I was never a religious person.
997
00:59:46,950 --> 00:59:51,052
I think it's rather importantas an influence on my life.
998
00:59:51,154 --> 00:59:55,857
The imagery was what was
important to him,
999
00:59:55,959 --> 00:59:57,892
not the dogma.
1000
00:59:57,994 --> 01:00:02,597
There's something
very ritualistic
about sadomasochism.
1001
01:00:02,699 --> 01:00:05,700
It's, kind of, the Black Mass
basically, right?
1002
01:00:07,838 --> 01:00:12,540
Fritscher:
His S&M work is based on the Catholic martyrology.
1003
01:00:17,213 --> 01:00:19,981
As grade-school children, we hear tales
1004
01:00:20,083 --> 01:00:25,787
of St. Agatha tied to a stakeand her tits torn offwith a red hot pincher.
1005
01:00:25,889 --> 01:00:28,857
If you're a little kid and hear that, and twisted in a certain way,
1006
01:00:28,958 --> 01:00:31,693
all of a sudden,
you're excited
and not horrified.
1007
01:00:31,795 --> 01:00:34,729
(clears throat)
1008
01:00:34,831 --> 01:00:40,001
I'm really not, you know,
into sadomasochism, you know?
1009
01:00:40,103 --> 01:00:43,137
I don't encourage it
with other people either.
1010
01:00:43,239 --> 01:00:49,277
But I really felt as though
there was a struggle in Robert
1011
01:00:49,379 --> 01:00:54,416
between crucifixes and devil images.
1012
01:00:54,518 --> 01:01:00,021
Good, evil, there is
a great conflict there.
1013
01:01:00,123 --> 01:01:02,924
He liked the fact
that I had been in
the seminary for many years
1014
01:01:03,026 --> 01:01:07,128
and was an ordained exorcist
in the Catholic Church.
1015
01:01:07,230 --> 01:01:12,300
And because I was trained to be a priest, he was very confessional to me.
1016
01:01:12,402 --> 01:01:14,903
"Dear Jack, it's midnight.
1017
01:01:15,004 --> 01:01:19,173
"MDA ingested, only the firstsigns now visible.
1018
01:01:19,275 --> 01:01:23,110
"I've been out nearly every night. Tonight is no different.
1019
01:01:23,212 --> 01:01:25,980
"The Mine Shaft is beckoning.
1020
01:01:26,082 --> 01:01:30,184
"Come, go, come, go,
come with me.
1021
01:01:30,286 --> 01:01:32,654
"Oh, I almost
forgot to tell you,
1022
01:01:32,756 --> 01:01:36,424
"I let some creep
stick his hand up my ass.
1023
01:01:36,526 --> 01:01:39,060
"I've been fisted, even came.
1024
01:01:39,162 --> 01:01:41,896
"But I think I prefer
being the giver.
1025
01:01:41,998 --> 01:01:47,936
"In fact, I can't help but give preferential treatment to the feeding process.
1026
01:01:48,037 --> 01:01:52,139
"I want to see the devil in us all.
1027
01:01:52,241 --> 01:01:54,408
"That's my real turn-on.
1028
01:01:54,511 --> 01:01:56,878
Love, Robert."
1029
01:01:58,381 --> 01:02:02,283
I have to say that
because nobody will say it.
1030
01:02:04,454 --> 01:02:07,956
I have to say it
and it's not to put him down,
1031
01:02:08,057 --> 01:02:10,224
but it's simply to reveal.
1032
01:02:10,326 --> 01:02:13,127
Robert--
(car engine rumbling)
1033
01:02:14,197 --> 01:02:16,664
Satan to him was not this evil monster.
1034
01:02:16,766 --> 01:02:20,502
Satan was, like, a convivial playmate,
1035
01:02:20,604 --> 01:02:23,437
having a jolly good time seducing the maidens.
1036
01:02:23,540 --> 01:02:26,107
To me, it was
a bridge too far.
1037
01:02:26,209 --> 01:02:29,811
(rumbling continues)
Go away.
1038
01:02:29,913 --> 01:02:32,947
Can we close the doors?
I'm getting awfully
cold in here.
1039
01:02:33,049 --> 01:02:34,782
Yeah.
There's a draft-- Marc?
1040
01:02:34,885 --> 01:02:38,820
Man:
San Francisco, 1978.
1041
01:02:38,922 --> 01:02:41,523
Robert was having a show, it was a sex show.
1042
01:02:41,625 --> 01:02:46,961
It was unusual. I mean,
you didn't see sex as art
in galleries.
1043
01:02:47,063 --> 01:02:48,663
And then someone said,
"Well, you know,
1044
01:02:48,765 --> 01:02:50,598
"he did the album cover
for 'Horses.'"
1045
01:02:50,700 --> 01:02:53,968
And it was the onlyblack and white album cover.
1046
01:02:54,070 --> 01:02:56,004
And to see an androgynous-looking woman
1047
01:02:56,105 --> 01:02:57,639
with a jacket
over her shoulder,
1048
01:02:57,741 --> 01:02:59,807
I just love, love,
love that photograph.
1049
01:02:59,910 --> 01:03:02,209
Robert was holding court and he said,
1050
01:03:02,311 --> 01:03:04,879
"Well, let's have dinner the following night,"
1051
01:03:04,981 --> 01:03:08,282
and that's how I met him.
1052
01:03:08,384 --> 01:03:11,619
And then I guess
you wanna know what happened
the following night, right?
1053
01:03:13,356 --> 01:03:14,889
He reminded me of the satyr.
1054
01:03:14,991 --> 01:03:17,391
He really looked like a mythological creature,
1055
01:03:17,493 --> 01:03:19,460
like half goat, half man.
1056
01:03:19,563 --> 01:03:21,930
To be in Robert's world,
1057
01:03:22,032 --> 01:03:28,402
you either had to be rich,
famous, or sex.
1058
01:03:28,504 --> 01:03:31,172
I wasn't rich,
I wasn't famous,
1059
01:03:31,274 --> 01:03:32,874
so, it left that.
1060
01:03:34,210 --> 01:03:36,077
As he certainly wasn't monogamous,
1061
01:03:36,179 --> 01:03:39,246
he could have multiple relationships on a weekend.
1062
01:03:39,315 --> 01:03:41,649
But with me, there was no S&M.
1063
01:03:41,751 --> 01:03:43,651
It was about being close
1064
01:03:43,753 --> 01:03:45,587
and spooning and, you know,
1065
01:03:45,689 --> 01:03:49,156
just the normal, the normal
kind of intimate stuff
1066
01:03:49,258 --> 01:03:51,659
that he didn't have from picking up strangers.
1067
01:03:51,761 --> 01:03:54,328
He said, "I want to do a nude."
1068
01:03:54,430 --> 01:03:57,131
So I said, "Why don't
we do something, like,
you know, this--"
1069
01:03:57,233 --> 01:03:59,233
those pictures of the hunt,
you know,
1070
01:03:59,335 --> 01:04:01,803
where you have, like, the harvest with the dead rabbit
1071
01:04:01,905 --> 01:04:03,605
and the fruit and everything all and about.
1072
01:04:03,707 --> 01:04:05,640
So, I thought it was gonna be
more like that,
1073
01:04:05,742 --> 01:04:09,376
and then it turned up
with-- just this dead rabbit.
1074
01:04:09,479 --> 01:04:14,048
And I said, "What am I gonna do with this? Like a mink stole or something."
1075
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:16,017
I'm surprised you even know that picture,
1076
01:04:16,119 --> 01:04:21,255
because you'll never see a picture of me in any book by Mapplethorpe.
1077
01:04:21,357 --> 01:04:23,057
You really won't.
1078
01:04:23,159 --> 01:04:25,860
The fact that I started
getting a reputation
1079
01:04:25,962 --> 01:04:31,232
aside from just being
"Robert's cute with,"
from San Francisco,
1080
01:04:31,334 --> 01:04:34,201
how dare I become a photographer that was well known?
1081
01:04:34,303 --> 01:04:36,604
This infuriated him.
1082
01:04:36,706 --> 01:04:38,205
He couldn't deal with that.
1083
01:04:38,307 --> 01:04:41,308
Fritscher:
"I've had a houseguest here for much too long,
1084
01:04:41,410 --> 01:04:44,345
"a very cute boythat I met in San Francisco.
1085
01:04:44,447 --> 01:04:48,282
"He's sweet, intelligent, has a nice cock,
1086
01:04:48,384 --> 01:04:50,217
"but that ain't enough.
1087
01:04:50,319 --> 01:04:54,622
I wish he'd find an apartment
as he's cramping my style."
1088
01:04:54,724 --> 01:04:56,590
That was probably me.
1089
01:04:56,693 --> 01:04:58,526
I mean-- but I don't--
never heard that.
1090
01:04:58,628 --> 01:05:01,629
I mean, I don't know who else
he met in San Francisco.
1091
01:05:01,731 --> 01:05:05,466
That was-- that's the first
time I'm hearing that.
1092
01:05:05,568 --> 01:05:07,468
Hmm.
1093
01:05:07,570 --> 01:05:12,173
Well, it finally isn't
enough, is it? I mean,
what he wanted.
1094
01:05:12,275 --> 01:05:14,008
It's never enough.
1095
01:05:14,110 --> 01:05:17,578
Everything was a means to an end to his career.
1096
01:05:17,681 --> 01:05:19,313
Everything.
1097
01:05:25,789 --> 01:05:29,791
Oh, my God. You guys
are old school. I love that.
1098
01:05:31,094 --> 01:05:32,660
Woman:
The Bond Street loftnever changed.
1099
01:05:32,762 --> 01:05:34,929
In the front, it was
sort of no man's land,
1100
01:05:35,031 --> 01:05:37,198
and that was where
he used to photograph a lot.
1101
01:05:37,300 --> 01:05:40,301
Then you move back and it'sthis little sitting area
1102
01:05:40,403 --> 01:05:42,636
which-- where he wouldalways hold court,
1103
01:05:42,739 --> 01:05:44,505
but across from that
was the bedroom.
1104
01:05:44,607 --> 01:05:46,307
Painted black.
Black.
1105
01:05:46,409 --> 01:05:47,608
Hot gloss.
1106
01:05:47,711 --> 01:05:50,377
With the handcuff holds
above the bed.
1107
01:05:50,479 --> 01:05:52,613
I never went in there.
Oh, I did.
1108
01:05:52,716 --> 01:05:54,281
(laughing)
1109
01:05:54,383 --> 01:05:57,284
First thing he said to me is,
"All you have to know is
where the darkroom is."
1110
01:05:57,386 --> 01:06:00,521
You know? Okay, dude,
whatever, you know.
1111
01:06:00,623 --> 01:06:02,824
Do your thing, I'll do mine.
1112
01:06:02,926 --> 01:06:05,727
And I remember the first imageI printed,
1113
01:06:05,829 --> 01:06:09,230
which was just a nasty,
dirty picture.
1114
01:06:09,332 --> 01:06:13,134
It's a guy laying on his back,pulling on his nipples.
1115
01:06:13,236 --> 01:06:16,070
It's not a well-known picture,
but it's a classic.
1116
01:06:16,172 --> 01:06:17,972
(laughing)
1117
01:06:18,074 --> 01:06:19,506
And that was where
we went to work every day.
1118
01:06:19,609 --> 01:06:21,642
That's where we went.
You know,
"Off to work, here we go."
1119
01:06:21,745 --> 01:06:24,946
Little waspy blondes
going to the den iniquity.
1120
01:06:25,048 --> 01:06:26,948
Going to
the fist-fucking file.
1121
01:06:27,050 --> 01:06:30,484
Wasn't it funny how soon
we became anesthetized
1122
01:06:30,586 --> 01:06:32,486
to all the sex pictures?
To the word penis?
1123
01:06:32,588 --> 01:06:35,089
Yeah, you really...
'Cause it was just daily.
1124
01:06:36,292 --> 01:06:38,359
Baril:
There would always be film in the morning
1125
01:06:38,461 --> 01:06:39,794
from the night before,
1126
01:06:39,896 --> 01:06:42,529
so the first thing I'd do is process film.
1127
01:06:42,632 --> 01:06:44,899
He'd come in in his robe,
1128
01:06:45,001 --> 01:06:46,567
"How are the films, Tom?"
1129
01:06:46,669 --> 01:06:50,972
When he saw the image for the very first time,
1130
01:06:51,074 --> 01:06:53,540
he'd tease me,
"What do you think
of that cock, Tom?"
1131
01:06:53,643 --> 01:06:56,177
I'm like,
"Get the fuck out of here."
You know?
1132
01:06:56,279 --> 01:06:59,346
I was just out of school,
looking for work,
1133
01:06:59,448 --> 01:07:04,852
and Robert was, like,
"I don't know how
I really feel about this,
1134
01:07:04,954 --> 01:07:08,089
"but I am looking
for an assistant."
1135
01:07:08,191 --> 01:07:10,557
And I started the next day.
1136
01:07:10,660 --> 01:07:13,928
Baril:
Because he didn't have a real photo background,
1137
01:07:14,030 --> 01:07:17,098
he was always insecure about "Technically did I get the picture?"
1138
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:18,900
You know, "Did it come out? Did it come out?"
1139
01:07:19,002 --> 01:07:22,236
If it had light on it,and he could get an exposure,he was happy,
1140
01:07:22,338 --> 01:07:26,540
'cause, you know, they were all fucked up in the middle of the night.
1141
01:07:26,642 --> 01:07:30,111
Mapplethorpe:
I'm not a technician. I never studied photography.
1142
01:07:30,213 --> 01:07:32,246
I don't particularly care to know it.
1143
01:07:32,348 --> 01:07:34,148
I know what a fine print is.
1144
01:07:34,250 --> 01:07:38,853
I would probably have less than half the number of photographs
1145
01:07:38,955 --> 01:07:41,956
if I did my own developing and printing.
1146
01:07:42,058 --> 01:07:44,758
But he always had coke.
I was the only guy
he gave coke to
1147
01:07:44,861 --> 01:07:46,760
'cause he wanted
me to keep going.
1148
01:07:46,863 --> 01:07:48,095
(laughs)
1149
01:07:48,198 --> 01:07:50,631
He wasn't generous,
but, you know,
1150
01:07:50,733 --> 01:07:54,168
"If I gave Tom a little coke,
he'll print faster," you know.
1151
01:07:54,270 --> 01:07:57,604
"Here, Tom.
Go in the darkroom,"
he'd give me a bump.
1152
01:07:59,042 --> 01:08:01,442
You know,
my father said to me,
1153
01:08:01,544 --> 01:08:04,045
"How can Robert call himself
a photographer
1154
01:08:04,147 --> 01:08:06,780
if he doesn't even know how
to process a roll of film?"
1155
01:08:06,883 --> 01:08:09,917
But Robert had a vision,
1156
01:08:10,019 --> 01:08:12,987
he always had a certain way of seeing things,
1157
01:08:13,089 --> 01:08:19,360
so how you got there didn't really concern him so much.
1158
01:08:19,462 --> 01:08:22,763
Baril:
He wanted everything to just be flawless.
1159
01:08:22,866 --> 01:08:27,101
You know, "Let's make this
guy's arm meet this corner,"
1160
01:08:27,203 --> 01:08:29,337
and, you know,
"Let's straighten it
out a little bit."
1161
01:08:29,438 --> 01:08:32,639
But it's a guy pissing
in another guy's mouth.
What's the fucking difference?
1162
01:08:34,443 --> 01:08:40,248
He wanted things as, you know,unrealistically perfect
1163
01:08:40,350 --> 01:08:44,385
and smooth and take all the flaws out of the skin.
1164
01:08:44,487 --> 01:08:47,355
Some days we'd sit and just retouch for a day
1165
01:08:47,456 --> 01:08:50,191
until all the blemishes were gone.
1166
01:08:55,899 --> 01:08:58,432
Mapplethorpe:
I talked to Patti about doing a book
1167
01:08:58,534 --> 01:09:02,803
and having her transform herself
1168
01:09:02,906 --> 01:09:05,739
into all these different characters that would have been Patti.
1169
01:09:05,841 --> 01:09:07,508
I mean, she would be this character one day
1170
01:09:07,610 --> 01:09:08,943
and that character another.
1171
01:09:09,012 --> 01:09:11,312
And I think, you know, she had a certain range
1172
01:09:11,414 --> 01:09:14,515
that could've probably carried a whole book,
1173
01:09:14,617 --> 01:09:17,818
but I never did a book with her.
1174
01:09:24,060 --> 01:09:29,630
When I met Lisa, I realized that she, in fact, had this range within her,
1175
01:09:29,732 --> 01:09:33,867
a very different range, but itwas still worthy of a book.
1176
01:09:35,305 --> 01:09:37,671
I thought she was unique.
1177
01:09:37,773 --> 01:09:40,908
She had this form that I had never seen before.
1178
01:09:41,010 --> 01:09:43,811
It was like a complete new animal.
1179
01:09:45,548 --> 01:09:47,714
Martineau:
She was particularly important to Mapplethorpe
1180
01:09:47,817 --> 01:09:49,917
because he was trying to balance out his sex pictures
1181
01:09:50,019 --> 01:09:52,386
with pictures of women. Mm-hmm.
1182
01:09:52,488 --> 01:09:53,787
It's so interesting
to think about
1183
01:09:53,889 --> 01:09:58,326
how the female body building
idea then was really radical
1184
01:09:58,428 --> 01:09:59,793
and, kind of, challenging.
1185
01:09:59,895 --> 01:10:04,265
That kind of physique to us
doesn't seem so shocking.
Right.
1186
01:10:04,367 --> 01:10:08,302
She's such
a prominent subject.
1187
01:10:08,404 --> 01:10:12,806
Very '80s,
the make-up, the hair.
Oh, yeah.
1188
01:10:12,908 --> 01:10:14,575
The ruffle blouse.
Mm-hmm.
1189
01:10:14,677 --> 01:10:16,210
The shoulder pads.
1190
01:10:16,312 --> 01:10:18,279
Lyon:
It was prototype for a new species.
1191
01:10:18,381 --> 01:10:21,615
Sort of an animal perfection,and I felt in him
1192
01:10:21,717 --> 01:10:23,951
a kind of male version of the same thing.
1193
01:10:24,053 --> 01:10:25,886
My ambition that I discussed with him
1194
01:10:25,989 --> 01:10:28,356
was to explore the range of possibilities
1195
01:10:28,458 --> 01:10:29,890
of ways of viewing a woman.
1196
01:10:29,993 --> 01:10:32,226
Historical ways, contemporary ways,
1197
01:10:32,328 --> 01:10:34,795
clich� ways, unheard of ways,
1198
01:10:34,897 --> 01:10:37,431
tribal ways, the high fashion type,
1199
01:10:37,533 --> 01:10:40,067
the sex goddess type, the lingerie type,
1200
01:10:40,169 --> 01:10:42,336
the bondage type, the virgin type,
1201
01:10:42,438 --> 01:10:44,738
the bridal type, the statue type.
1202
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,208
� �
1203
01:10:47,310 --> 01:10:51,278
Squiers:
What had seemed very daring
1204
01:10:51,381 --> 01:10:55,149
when he did it with men...
1205
01:10:57,453 --> 01:11:02,056
...looked very retrograde when he did it with a woman
1206
01:11:02,158 --> 01:11:07,428
who was dressing up in
different hats and garments.
1207
01:11:10,099 --> 01:11:13,767
And so I wrote about that and he was furious.
1208
01:11:13,869 --> 01:11:16,337
I think he called me
and yelled at me.
1209
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:21,975
I feel, like, it may
have been a bad idea
to write that review.
1210
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:25,846
I mean, that is
sculpture to me,
1211
01:11:25,948 --> 01:11:28,882
you know, and that's, sort of,
one of the points that
I'm making in photography
1212
01:11:28,984 --> 01:11:33,720
is being a sculptor
without actually having
to spend all the time,
1213
01:11:33,822 --> 01:11:36,190
sort of, modeling with your hands.
1214
01:11:36,292 --> 01:11:38,592
You know, that's much too archaic for me.
1215
01:11:38,694 --> 01:11:41,328
It's like inventing sculpturemyself with a camera.
1216
01:11:41,431 --> 01:11:43,064
It really is like bronze.
1217
01:11:43,166 --> 01:11:48,169
I'd often say that
photographing black men
is like photographing bronzes.
1218
01:11:49,505 --> 01:11:50,837
(camera shutter clicks)
1219
01:11:50,940 --> 01:11:55,242
I was the last white
intimate person in his life.
1220
01:11:55,344 --> 01:11:58,912
After that, he was only
sleeping with black people,
1221
01:11:59,014 --> 01:12:01,382
photographing black people.
1222
01:12:01,484 --> 01:12:04,585
He became obsessed
with black people.
1223
01:12:10,859 --> 01:12:15,563
Mapplethorpe:
All I know is that it's physically attractive to me.
1224
01:12:15,664 --> 01:12:18,399
Visually, it's also attractive
1225
01:12:18,501 --> 01:12:24,972
and so, you know, it became an obsession with me taking these pictures of blacks.
1226
01:12:25,074 --> 01:12:28,875
People had accused him
of exploiting these people.
1227
01:12:28,978 --> 01:12:33,347
And, um... he told me
1228
01:12:33,449 --> 01:12:35,882
he photographed
what he loved to do
1229
01:12:35,985 --> 01:12:38,051
and the people
he loved to be with,
1230
01:12:38,154 --> 01:12:41,688
and to me, that's not exploitation.
1231
01:12:41,790 --> 01:12:44,458
That's just living your life
1232
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,161
and using a camera to document it.
1233
01:12:47,263 --> 01:12:50,764
Mapplethorpe:
For the most part, when whites have photographed blacks,
1234
01:12:50,866 --> 01:12:56,170
they have, sort of, shown them from a certain social point of view.
1235
01:12:56,272 --> 01:12:59,840
I'm photographing them as formin the same way thatI'm reading the flowers
1236
01:12:59,942 --> 01:13:02,075
or anything else that I photograph.
1237
01:13:02,178 --> 01:13:07,148
I'm not attempting to make a social statement about their plight.
1238
01:13:07,250 --> 01:13:11,485
Robert was looking for God
in a black man,
1239
01:13:11,587 --> 01:13:16,957
and he found him
in Milton Moore
1240
01:13:17,059 --> 01:13:19,760
and fell in love with him.
1241
01:13:19,862 --> 01:13:25,499
Now, I think he fell in love,
1242
01:13:25,601 --> 01:13:29,970
and this sounds ridiculous,
with Milton's penis.
1243
01:13:32,208 --> 01:13:38,011
Robert was looking
for the absolute perfect
black penis.
1244
01:13:38,113 --> 01:13:39,280
And he had it,
1245
01:13:39,382 --> 01:13:42,583
I mean, the exact
measurements down.
1246
01:13:42,685 --> 01:13:46,487
I mean, it had to be
just so and he'd discuss it
with others,
1247
01:13:46,589 --> 01:13:49,756
and, you know,
the ratio to this and that.
1248
01:13:49,858 --> 01:13:53,694
The thing the world is
most afraid of is penis.
1249
01:13:53,796 --> 01:13:56,096
And Robert dared show penis,
1250
01:13:56,199 --> 01:13:57,698
but he dared show black penis,
1251
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:02,670
and there's nothing more scary
because behind all of
sexual prejudice
1252
01:14:02,771 --> 01:14:05,706
is the sex envy,
this penis envy
1253
01:14:05,808 --> 01:14:08,975
that drives people insane
1254
01:14:09,078 --> 01:14:12,313
either with lust or with fear.
1255
01:14:12,415 --> 01:14:14,415
Morrisroe:
Milton did say to him
1256
01:14:14,517 --> 01:14:16,783
as one condition of taking the pictures
1257
01:14:16,885 --> 01:14:21,988
that he could not show his head in the frame.
1258
01:14:22,091 --> 01:14:25,326
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
1259
01:14:34,437 --> 01:14:36,803
Morrisroe:
"Picture of Man in Polyester Suit"
1260
01:14:36,905 --> 01:14:38,639
was really one of his most famous.
1261
01:14:38,741 --> 01:14:45,279
Milton had picked up that suit in Hong Kong and was very proud of it,
1262
01:14:45,381 --> 01:14:48,616
and Robert purposely
lined up his thumb
1263
01:14:48,718 --> 01:14:52,553
so that it would show off
the cheap seams.
1264
01:14:55,258 --> 01:14:57,057
Man:
I'd never seen it, and then we went to the framers
1265
01:14:57,159 --> 01:15:00,927
and I saw it laying on the floor as it was gonna be put into the frame,
1266
01:15:01,029 --> 01:15:02,963
and I said,
1267
01:15:03,065 --> 01:15:07,735
"Robert, this is a show that
the whole world will see."
1268
01:15:07,836 --> 01:15:12,573
He said to me,
"Will anyone write about it?"
1269
01:15:12,675 --> 01:15:16,477
That was his comment.
And they did.
1270
01:15:16,612 --> 01:15:19,045
Man:
"Main picture here is a big black dude
1271
01:15:19,148 --> 01:15:22,182
"seen in an expensive vested gabardine suit
1272
01:15:22,285 --> 01:15:25,552
"with his fly open and his elephant cock sticking out.
1273
01:15:25,655 --> 01:15:28,054
"This picture's ugly,
degrading, obscene,
1274
01:15:28,157 --> 01:15:30,424
(chuckling)
"typical of the artist's work,
1275
01:15:30,526 --> 01:15:34,161
"which appeal
largely to drooling
lascivious collectors
1276
01:15:34,263 --> 01:15:38,799
"who buy them and return
to their furnished rooms
to jerk off."
1277
01:15:38,901 --> 01:15:41,402
(laughing)
1278
01:15:41,504 --> 01:15:47,574
We actually did
sell that picture
during the exhibition
1279
01:15:47,677 --> 01:15:53,314
to a collector
in New York for $2,500,
and it was a reach.
1280
01:15:53,416 --> 01:15:56,750
It was a big price
for a photograph,
1281
01:15:56,852 --> 01:16:00,487
and especially
by a living photographer.
1282
01:16:00,589 --> 01:16:03,123
There were 20 works in the show
1283
01:16:03,225 --> 01:16:06,893
and we placed all of them with very strong collectors,
1284
01:16:06,995 --> 01:16:08,729
which was very important for Robert.
1285
01:16:08,831 --> 01:16:11,965
This was the first show that
that had ever happened to him.
1286
01:16:12,067 --> 01:16:15,336
And it was a kind
of lightning rod
1287
01:16:15,438 --> 01:16:18,405
and it was notorious.
1288
01:16:18,507 --> 01:16:22,609
Auctioneer:
Lot 144, Robert Mapplethorpe's
"Man in Polyester Suit."
1289
01:16:22,712 --> 01:16:25,713
And I'm gonna start
the bidding here at $180,000.
1290
01:16:25,815 --> 01:16:32,353
It's possibly one of the top
10 most recognizable images
in photographic history.
1291
01:16:32,455 --> 01:16:34,054
210, 220.
1292
01:16:34,156 --> 01:16:36,523
It's an iconic image.
1293
01:16:36,625 --> 01:16:39,526
You know, it's, like, Andy's "Marilyn."
1294
01:16:39,628 --> 01:16:42,295
360, 380...
1295
01:16:42,398 --> 01:16:44,631
$390,000.
1296
01:16:52,675 --> 01:16:55,108
Marino:
None of us realized that photography
1297
01:16:55,210 --> 01:16:59,580
at its-- the beginning was just considered
1298
01:16:59,682 --> 01:17:02,383
commercial reproduction, commercial reproduction.
1299
01:17:02,485 --> 01:17:05,719
Many collectors would never dream of collecting.
1300
01:17:05,821 --> 01:17:10,991
And I think Mapplethorpe is
one of the artists responsible
1301
01:17:11,093 --> 01:17:16,730
for photography being
considered on an equal basis
with sculpture and painting.
1302
01:17:16,832 --> 01:17:22,369
I never for a second
doubted that photography
was a very real art.
1303
01:17:22,471 --> 01:17:26,874
And there's just something about his photography that immediately attracted me.
1304
01:17:26,975 --> 01:17:32,579
I was shocked by his absolute brutal honesty about everything,
1305
01:17:32,681 --> 01:17:36,650
from sexual organs
to relationships
between people.
1306
01:17:36,752 --> 01:17:40,921
Mapplethorpe:
You know, the people that have influenced me the most
1307
01:17:41,023 --> 01:17:43,256
are the relationships I've had, you know,
1308
01:17:43,358 --> 01:17:46,192
the lovers I've had in my life.
1309
01:17:46,295 --> 01:17:49,596
And of course I've photographed every one of them.
1310
01:17:49,698 --> 01:17:54,435
The only time Robert ever
cried was talking about
how much he loved Milton.
1311
01:17:54,537 --> 01:17:57,838
Not Patti, Milton. Milton.
1312
01:17:57,940 --> 01:18:00,574
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
1313
01:18:14,690 --> 01:18:19,927
He had just did that
show called "Black Males"
at Robert Miller Gallery.
1314
01:18:20,028 --> 01:18:23,196
So I went to go see that show.
1315
01:18:23,298 --> 01:18:26,266
I said, "That's gonna
be my boyfriend."
1316
01:18:27,402 --> 01:18:30,637
We lived together for the better part of a decade.
1317
01:18:30,739 --> 01:18:35,275
We rarely fought, you know,
1318
01:18:35,377 --> 01:18:39,012
because he was tooself-absorbed to really care.
1319
01:18:39,114 --> 01:18:40,848
It was so easy to be around him
1320
01:18:40,950 --> 01:18:45,919
because he was so busy
being Robert Mapplethorpe.
1321
01:18:47,756 --> 01:18:53,861
When we started seeing each other, he started taking pictures, right?
1322
01:18:53,963 --> 01:18:58,832
And I was, kind of, shy,
so I didn't wanna take
nude pictures.
1323
01:18:58,934 --> 01:19:02,503
And Robert goes,
"Just don't look
at your dick."
1324
01:19:02,605 --> 01:19:05,472
He goes,
"It's just a picture."
1325
01:19:08,110 --> 01:19:14,014
Man:
There is no picture of Ken Moody's dick.
1326
01:19:14,116 --> 01:19:17,283
There just isn't,
and I'm sorry.
1327
01:19:17,386 --> 01:19:18,585
(laughing)
1328
01:19:18,687 --> 01:19:21,622
As soon as I stood
in front of the seamless,
1329
01:19:21,724 --> 01:19:24,057
it was magic.
1330
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:26,459
It was absolute magic.
1331
01:19:28,631 --> 01:19:34,167
There's no way you can describe it other than making love.
1332
01:19:35,538 --> 01:19:42,275
And as soon as we stepped away
from that backdrop, nothing.
1333
01:19:42,377 --> 01:19:44,912
Absolutely nothing.
1334
01:19:45,014 --> 01:19:48,348
We had nothing in common,
We had nothing to say
to each other.
1335
01:19:48,450 --> 01:19:55,088
There was a ghetto
element to men that he had
the strongest attraction to.
1336
01:19:55,190 --> 01:19:56,523
I had none of that.
1337
01:19:56,625 --> 01:20:01,194
He was quoted in
an article as saying
I was too "white" for him.
1338
01:20:03,498 --> 01:20:04,831
Too white.
1339
01:20:04,934 --> 01:20:07,834
(laughing)
1340
01:20:07,937 --> 01:20:09,502
Mapplethorpe:
I brought them together.
1341
01:20:09,605 --> 01:20:12,205
It was interesting'cause they had never metand never had a conversation
1342
01:20:12,307 --> 01:20:15,909
with somebody else that they had lost all their hair as a child.
1343
01:20:16,011 --> 01:20:19,112
And it was interesting to watch them
1344
01:20:19,214 --> 01:20:21,448
react and relate to each other.
1345
01:20:21,550 --> 01:20:23,951
Sherman:
The more time goes by,
1346
01:20:24,053 --> 01:20:26,853
the bigger that photograph gets.
1347
01:20:26,956 --> 01:20:30,423
When it was in Times Square
on the NASDAQ billboard,
1348
01:20:30,525 --> 01:20:34,394
that was, like,
"Wow. Where's my mother?"
1349
01:20:37,532 --> 01:20:42,502
I've read several things on the shot of Ken and I.
1350
01:20:42,605 --> 01:20:47,674
It's like
they tried to read all
of this philosophy into it.
1351
01:20:47,776 --> 01:20:52,946
Black Ken, eyes closed, meaning the subconscious.
1352
01:20:53,048 --> 01:20:58,284
White Robert, eyes open, afraid of the unconscious.
1353
01:20:58,386 --> 01:21:00,220
I'm, like, "What?"
1354
01:21:00,322 --> 01:21:03,724
The black man
was in the background
1355
01:21:03,826 --> 01:21:07,327
because the black man's neck
wasn't long enough
1356
01:21:07,429 --> 01:21:11,464
to reach over
the white man's shoulder.
1357
01:21:11,566 --> 01:21:14,701
We tried it and my neck
wasn't long enough.
1358
01:21:14,803 --> 01:21:17,504
I think that's whyhe did every position.
1359
01:21:17,606 --> 01:21:19,940
Exactly. To find outwhat worked best.
1360
01:21:20,042 --> 01:21:24,044
There was no
philosophical anything to--
1361
01:21:24,146 --> 01:21:26,379
Robert was so not like that.
1362
01:21:26,481 --> 01:21:28,115
No. Totally not.
1363
01:21:28,216 --> 01:21:29,850
Take your shirt off.
1364
01:21:29,952 --> 01:21:32,686
It sounds silly. I guess, you know, using the word, magic.
1365
01:21:32,788 --> 01:21:34,554
And fold your arms.
1366
01:21:34,657 --> 01:21:36,990
Stay right there.
Lift your head up
a little bit.
1367
01:21:37,092 --> 01:21:40,894
I was able to pick up the magic of the moment and work with it,
1368
01:21:40,996 --> 01:21:43,897
you know, that's my rush in doing photography.
1369
01:21:43,999 --> 01:21:46,399
Ken, hold that! Hold that!
1370
01:21:46,501 --> 01:21:48,401
Tilt a little right
and turn a little right.
1371
01:21:48,503 --> 01:21:52,505
Turn your head to the right,
now bring your eyes
back to me.
1372
01:21:54,109 --> 01:21:55,776
Look back here.
1373
01:21:55,878 --> 01:21:57,410
Lean right, turn right.
1374
01:21:57,512 --> 01:22:00,147
Put your head down,
now bring your eyes up.
1375
01:22:00,248 --> 01:22:03,383
Click, click, click,
click, click, eyes to me.
1376
01:22:03,485 --> 01:22:05,318
Click. Chin up.
1377
01:22:05,420 --> 01:22:08,088
Walls:
Turn this way.
1378
01:22:08,190 --> 01:22:11,191
Turn your head this way.
Yeah, more.
1379
01:22:11,293 --> 01:22:12,926
More. More.
1380
01:22:13,028 --> 01:22:15,762
And instead
of looking to the side,
look straight out.
1381
01:22:15,864 --> 01:22:18,198
Often I'm dealing with fractions of inches.
1382
01:22:18,300 --> 01:22:20,734
Here, you can even--
Now turn.
1383
01:22:20,836 --> 01:22:22,335
Just-- Yeah,
from the neck.
Stay there.
1384
01:22:22,437 --> 01:22:24,470
I'm looking for that perfect position
1385
01:22:24,573 --> 01:22:28,341
where the head sort of, somehow makes sense to me.
1386
01:22:28,443 --> 01:22:31,477
Actually, I should take it
with all these things
coming in at you.
1387
01:22:31,580 --> 01:22:33,680
A little-- Look this way
towards-- yeah.
1388
01:22:35,017 --> 01:22:37,117
That's rather good, actually.
1389
01:22:41,857 --> 01:22:45,158
I'm gonna start showing a series of portraits.
1390
01:22:45,260 --> 01:22:49,229
I'll stop at any point,but I don't want to commenttoo much about the pictures
1391
01:22:49,331 --> 01:22:51,865
'cause I wanna get-- I want my vision to come across,
1392
01:22:51,967 --> 01:22:54,034
the way I see things.
1393
01:22:54,136 --> 01:22:55,902
That's William Burroughs.
1394
01:22:56,004 --> 01:22:59,106
Philip Glass on the left, Robert Wilson on the right.
1395
01:22:59,208 --> 01:23:02,609
And Donald Sutherland, one of the best subjects I've ever photographed.
1396
01:23:02,711 --> 01:23:07,080
Annie Leibovitz, one of the most difficult subjects I've ever photographed.
1397
01:23:07,182 --> 01:23:08,648
(audience laughing)
1398
01:23:08,751 --> 01:23:11,017
That's Debbie Harry.
1399
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,120
Harry:
I sat for him a couple of times,
1400
01:23:13,222 --> 01:23:16,156
which was pretty scary for me the first time.
1401
01:23:16,258 --> 01:23:18,658
Smiling wasn't his thing, you know.
1402
01:23:18,761 --> 01:23:23,130
The way that he saw people was
like he was seeing into them
1403
01:23:23,232 --> 01:23:24,631
or something,
or through them.
1404
01:23:24,733 --> 01:23:28,268
Mapplethorpe:
I don't think it's necessary to tell you
1405
01:23:28,370 --> 01:23:31,838
who is in each photograph because if the pictures are good,
1406
01:23:31,940 --> 01:23:35,108
then they'll transcend who they are and it doesn't matter.
1407
01:23:35,210 --> 01:23:37,944
He became known
for the elegance
of his portraits.
1408
01:23:38,046 --> 01:23:41,281
And any photographer who takes pictures of celebrities
1409
01:23:41,383 --> 01:23:42,916
is making a smart business move
1410
01:23:43,018 --> 01:23:46,452
because those people and theirfriends have lots of money.
1411
01:23:46,554 --> 01:23:48,255
And they buy pictures.
Salvesen:
Yeah.
1412
01:23:48,356 --> 01:23:51,324
Well, and his social life was a part of his artistic life.
1413
01:23:51,426 --> 01:23:52,458
That's right. You know,
1414
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:54,261
it was allvery interconnected.
1415
01:24:03,672 --> 01:24:06,539
Mapplethorpe:
Ideally, you get the subject to a point
1416
01:24:06,641 --> 01:24:08,341
where they direct themselves.
1417
01:24:08,443 --> 01:24:11,311
You know, they say, "Well,this is really kind of whatI want to be photographed in."
1418
01:24:11,413 --> 01:24:14,414
I thought it was going to be
a catastrophe,
1419
01:24:14,516 --> 01:24:16,616
and I prepared for it.
1420
01:24:16,718 --> 01:24:19,319
So I did take a piece of mine.
1421
01:24:19,387 --> 01:24:21,487
It was a good collaboration, right?
1422
01:24:21,589 --> 01:24:24,590
Because he's famous not for his flower pictures.
1423
01:24:24,693 --> 01:24:30,563
He's famous
for his objectionable
sexual representation.
1424
01:24:30,665 --> 01:24:32,732
Mapplethorpe:
You know taking pictures of sex is no different
1425
01:24:32,835 --> 01:24:34,734
than photographing a flower really.
1426
01:24:34,837 --> 01:24:38,438
I mean, it's the same thing. It's just submitting to whatever's going on
1427
01:24:38,540 --> 01:24:42,775
and trying to getthe best possible view of it.
1428
01:24:42,878 --> 01:24:47,347
And nobody else can photographflowers the way I do.
1429
01:24:47,449 --> 01:24:49,615
It's just the way I see.
1430
01:24:49,718 --> 01:24:53,320
Even Robert said it,
that the pictures started
getting very, very, slick.
1431
01:24:53,421 --> 01:24:56,456
That was the word.
So slick, so perfect.
1432
01:24:58,227 --> 01:25:04,797
But perfection,
that's a Mapplethorpe
characteristic. Perfection.
1433
01:25:08,770 --> 01:25:13,740
Anybody who was involved in that studio will agree with me
1434
01:25:13,842 --> 01:25:17,310
that you just got sucked
into Robert's world.
1435
01:25:17,412 --> 01:25:20,981
You wanted to.
It wasn't-- I mean,
you just did,
1436
01:25:21,083 --> 01:25:22,582
I mean, it was an interesting world.
1437
01:25:22,684 --> 01:25:25,485
It was a lot of excitement, it was a lot of fun,
1438
01:25:25,587 --> 01:25:27,520
but I wanted
to do something else.
1439
01:25:28,991 --> 01:25:32,325
Can't just be Robert's assistant for the rest of my life.
1440
01:25:37,799 --> 01:25:40,367
So then the invitation gets sent out.
1441
01:25:40,468 --> 01:25:43,870
Nice group of artists.
All alphabetical.
1442
01:25:43,972 --> 01:25:49,842
And lo and behold, Edward Mapplethorpe comes before Robert Mapplethorpe.
1443
01:25:49,945 --> 01:25:53,679
And he was... ruthless.
1444
01:25:53,782 --> 01:25:56,283
He was nasty.
1445
01:25:56,385 --> 01:25:59,652
And said,
1446
01:25:59,754 --> 01:26:01,888
"I'm not gonna have
any kid brother--
1447
01:26:01,990 --> 01:26:05,625
"I've worked really hard
to get where I've gotten,
1448
01:26:05,727 --> 01:26:10,130
"and if you think
you're gonna come
and ride on my coattails..."
1449
01:26:10,232 --> 01:26:13,499
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
1450
01:26:18,907 --> 01:26:22,442
And I was like,
"Fuck, man," I was like...
1451
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:25,946
"Wow."
1452
01:26:26,048 --> 01:26:28,982
And Robert asked him
to change his name,
1453
01:26:29,084 --> 01:26:31,451
which he struggled with,
I think, for a while,
1454
01:26:31,553 --> 01:26:34,787
but then he did.
He changed it to Maxey.
1455
01:26:34,889 --> 01:26:38,524
Right. But...
1456
01:26:38,626 --> 01:26:41,962
It was all about Robert.
It was all about Robert.
1457
01:26:42,064 --> 01:26:43,629
You know,
they were brothers.
1458
01:26:43,731 --> 01:26:45,598
Can't imagine
what all that was like.
1459
01:26:46,668 --> 01:26:51,237
You know, it was
a futile attempt because...
1460
01:26:51,340 --> 01:26:54,640
"Oh, this is Edward Maxey.
He's Robert Mapplethorpe's
brother."
1461
01:26:54,742 --> 01:26:56,576
I was, like, "Well,
what good is this doing?
1462
01:26:56,678 --> 01:26:59,579
"This is ridiculous."
1463
01:26:59,681 --> 01:27:02,315
But yeah, it sucked.
1464
01:27:02,417 --> 01:27:06,019
That day sucked.
1465
01:27:06,121 --> 01:27:11,691
Just like the day that he got
angry at me for deciding that
I was gonna leave the studio.
1466
01:27:11,793 --> 01:27:13,493
This is somebody that two years earlier
1467
01:27:13,595 --> 01:27:17,130
didn't know whether he wantedme in the studio with him.
1468
01:27:17,232 --> 01:27:23,536
Two years later, I guess,
he learned to rely on me
quite a bit.
1469
01:27:23,638 --> 01:27:27,340
And was angry, very angry.
1470
01:27:27,442 --> 01:27:29,309
� �
1471
01:27:32,547 --> 01:27:35,848
Tom Brokaw:
The lifestyle of some male homosexuals
1472
01:27:35,950 --> 01:27:38,618
has triggered an epidemic of a rare form of cancer.
1473
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,687
He would go to the bar
in the afternoon,
1474
01:27:41,789 --> 01:27:45,892
pick up someone,
have sex with them,
1475
01:27:45,994 --> 01:27:49,295
then go back later that night,
1476
01:27:49,398 --> 01:27:51,664
maybe and then
pick up somebody else,
1477
01:27:51,766 --> 01:27:55,502
and then towards
the end of the night,
like, a nightcap.
1478
01:27:55,603 --> 01:27:57,670
Woman:
Last weekend, Mayor Koch predicted
1479
01:27:57,772 --> 01:28:00,040
that The Mine Shaft would close.
1480
01:28:00,142 --> 01:28:01,807
They are selling death.
1481
01:28:01,910 --> 01:28:04,444
Places where death
can be distributed.
1482
01:28:04,546 --> 01:28:07,347
They're making love
in the street on top of cars
and everything.
1483
01:28:07,449 --> 01:28:10,083
This is men. Grown men.
I mean, that's not normal.
1484
01:28:10,185 --> 01:28:13,353
Most of these people,
they're not fit,
they're not human beings.
1485
01:28:13,455 --> 01:28:15,121
That have emotional problems.
1486
01:28:15,223 --> 01:28:17,757
(Man's voice)
1487
01:28:17,859 --> 01:28:19,325
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
1488
01:28:19,428 --> 01:28:23,296
(Man's voice)
1489
01:28:31,606 --> 01:28:34,207
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
1490
01:28:35,277 --> 01:28:37,710
� �
1491
01:28:40,882 --> 01:28:43,116
Walls:
'Cause I was sleepingwith him for all those years,
1492
01:28:43,218 --> 01:28:45,485
I thought that
I was gonna die.
1493
01:28:45,587 --> 01:28:48,921
I came back from an appointment to get my results.
1494
01:28:49,023 --> 01:28:51,224
He was laying in the bed when I walked in,
1495
01:28:51,326 --> 01:28:54,194
and then he looked at me
and then he said,
1496
01:28:54,296 --> 01:28:55,761
"You got it, right?"
1497
01:28:55,863 --> 01:28:58,664
And I said, "No, no, no, no."
I said, "I'm negative."
1498
01:28:58,766 --> 01:29:00,967
And I remember, he got
really upset and he goes,
1499
01:29:01,069 --> 01:29:03,002
"Then why do I have it?
Why do I have it?"
1500
01:29:03,105 --> 01:29:04,904
And he started, like,
pounding the bed.
1501
01:29:11,146 --> 01:29:14,447
AIDS at the time
was pretty much
a death sentence, right?
1502
01:29:14,549 --> 01:29:17,484
And he, on the onehand was upset,
1503
01:29:17,586 --> 01:29:21,887
but on the other hand,
he was fascinated
by the demand for his work.
1504
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:24,424
Walls:
Like, his market took off
1505
01:29:24,526 --> 01:29:27,460
when people heard that he was about to die.
1506
01:29:27,562 --> 01:29:29,729
It really took off.
1507
01:29:29,831 --> 01:29:31,531
Baril:
We were very busy.
1508
01:29:31,633 --> 01:29:34,800
We didn't stop working,
and he didn't stop shooting
1509
01:29:34,902 --> 01:29:37,103
until he physically
couldn't get out of bed.
1510
01:29:37,205 --> 01:29:38,938
He's like,
"What am I shooting next?
1511
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:41,774
"Get me some flowers.
Let's do that."
1512
01:29:41,876 --> 01:29:45,211
You know, and it--the flowers got done,the statues got done,
1513
01:29:45,313 --> 01:29:47,847
the commissionedportraits got done.
1514
01:29:47,949 --> 01:29:49,949
Mapplethorpe:
One day I'll photograph flowers,
1515
01:29:50,051 --> 01:29:51,784
the next day I'll do some fashion work,
1516
01:29:51,886 --> 01:29:55,355
the next day I'll do somepornography, and the next day,I'll do a portrait.
1517
01:29:55,457 --> 01:29:57,624
You know, I don't really care.
1518
01:29:58,993 --> 01:30:01,694
Suzanne:
I sort of thought I shouldbe keeping a journal.
1519
01:30:01,796 --> 01:30:03,363
"I did watch him shoot today.
1520
01:30:03,465 --> 01:30:07,900
"It's so amazing to seehow he musters the energyto do the pictures.
1521
01:30:07,969 --> 01:30:10,136
"It absolutelykeeps him going.
1522
01:30:10,238 --> 01:30:13,273
"And the money. Funny money."
1523
01:30:13,375 --> 01:30:17,943
Natrele Plus. Long-lasting Natrele protection.
1524
01:30:18,046 --> 01:30:20,647
He was never interested
in talking about his health.
1525
01:30:20,748 --> 01:30:24,050
All he wanted to talk about
was sales and who was
looking at his work,
1526
01:30:24,152 --> 01:30:26,286
and when are we gonna have
a million-dollar a month.
1527
01:30:26,388 --> 01:30:30,423
He was interested in making
as much money as possible.
1528
01:30:30,525 --> 01:30:34,126
And he resented the fact that his contemporaries', like Brice Marden,
1529
01:30:34,229 --> 01:30:37,397
works started selling
for several hundred
thousand dollars.
1530
01:30:37,499 --> 01:30:41,167
And Robert's works
were selling for $1,100.
1531
01:30:42,937 --> 01:30:48,107
Mapplethorpe, had a sort of jealous or competitive relationship with Warhol.
1532
01:30:49,744 --> 01:30:52,044
He would say to me weekly,
1533
01:30:52,146 --> 01:30:57,149
"If I die, will I have died
with as much money
as Andy Warhol had?"
1534
01:30:57,252 --> 01:31:00,486
And I'd say,
"No. Not nearly, not nearly."
1535
01:31:00,589 --> 01:31:05,692
I remember him saying to me
once, how frustrated he was
about being ill
1536
01:31:05,793 --> 01:31:08,661
because he was getting
all this money now,
1537
01:31:08,763 --> 01:31:10,496
and he actually said,
1538
01:31:10,599 --> 01:31:12,198
"I won't be able to enjoy it."
1539
01:31:12,300 --> 01:31:16,869
He was not very interested
in leaving money to people.
1540
01:31:16,971 --> 01:31:20,673
So the foundation ideareally began to appeal to him
1541
01:31:20,775 --> 01:31:25,311
because his money, his assets, his real estate, his art collection
1542
01:31:25,413 --> 01:31:26,979
would support his foundation.
1543
01:31:27,081 --> 01:31:30,750
So, it would
automatically promote him.
1544
01:31:33,054 --> 01:31:35,355
Edward:
Robert sent for me for his birthday,
1545
01:31:35,457 --> 01:31:36,889
his 40th birthday party,
1546
01:31:36,991 --> 01:31:41,527
That's when I was like,
"Whoa. This is not good."
1547
01:31:43,665 --> 01:31:47,600
Robert Mapplethorpe's
way to interpret me
1548
01:31:47,702 --> 01:31:51,937
was totally different than
any other photographer.
1549
01:31:53,975 --> 01:31:56,942
He wanted my hair back,
so that was unusual to me.
1550
01:31:57,044 --> 01:32:00,112
Everybody has always wanted me
to do a hairdo.
1551
01:32:00,214 --> 01:32:04,517
He wanted a very, very natural feel.
1552
01:32:04,619 --> 01:32:06,686
I look like an angel on that picture.
1553
01:32:06,788 --> 01:32:08,488
So, how can I not be pleased?
1554
01:32:08,590 --> 01:32:15,595
He was the first photographer
to photograph me completely
in profile.
1555
01:32:15,697 --> 01:32:18,631
It's never--
He was the only one.
1556
01:32:20,234 --> 01:32:25,405
The profile was just so much more soul-baring.
1557
01:32:25,507 --> 01:32:27,273
I got to sort of study him.
1558
01:32:27,375 --> 01:32:30,843
He didn't seem happy.
Everything seemed precious,
1559
01:32:30,945 --> 01:32:35,181
and I think there was no sense
of wanting to waste time
or be frivolous.
1560
01:32:35,283 --> 01:32:39,251
In German, you say--
there is this word, getrieben,
1561
01:32:39,354 --> 01:32:44,590
which means as if something
is chasing you constantly.
1562
01:32:47,128 --> 01:32:51,497
I used to go and visit him.
We both sense that
he was dying,
1563
01:32:51,599 --> 01:32:53,399
but we didn't talk about it.
1564
01:32:53,501 --> 01:32:55,868
And he had that very
sad expression,
1565
01:32:55,970 --> 01:32:57,970
because
he didn't want to leave.
1566
01:32:58,072 --> 01:33:00,105
He wanted to stay, you know?
1567
01:33:00,208 --> 01:33:02,542
And one day he said,
1568
01:33:02,644 --> 01:33:04,143
"I need to take
a photograph of you
1569
01:33:04,245 --> 01:33:07,513
"and you need this one
because this is going
to be the last one,"
1570
01:33:07,615 --> 01:33:10,316
is what he say.
I say, "Don't be silly."
1571
01:33:11,820 --> 01:33:13,519
And it was.
1572
01:33:16,891 --> 01:33:18,458
Edward:
It was just sort of
1573
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:20,693
business as usual until things progressed,
1574
01:33:20,795 --> 01:33:23,295
and he was having a harder
and harder time getting
out of his seat and...
1575
01:33:23,398 --> 01:33:25,231
And he had a horrible,
horrible cough,
1576
01:33:25,333 --> 01:33:27,767
which I guess was typical.
1577
01:33:27,869 --> 01:33:31,103
Six o'clock would roll around
and then he'd sort of be like,
1578
01:33:31,205 --> 01:33:33,339
"Can you come
keep me company?"
1579
01:33:33,441 --> 01:33:37,309
It was this little boy.
"Don't leave. Stay with me."
1580
01:33:37,412 --> 01:33:39,044
Yeah, little baby voice.
1581
01:33:39,146 --> 01:33:42,815
Edward:
Robert was in his bedroom,not feeling particularly well,
1582
01:33:42,917 --> 01:33:46,586
and he's like,
you know, he's like,
"I'd like to do a picture
1583
01:33:46,688 --> 01:33:48,755
"with my hand
holding the skull cane."
1584
01:33:48,857 --> 01:33:52,692
And I said to Brian,
I said, "Listen, this has got
to be a self-portrait."
1585
01:33:52,794 --> 01:33:56,896
And it wasn't often
that he'd want to take
his own picture,
1586
01:33:56,998 --> 01:33:58,431
but he had been trying.
1587
01:33:58,533 --> 01:34:01,534
I took the skull cane
and I held it like this,
1588
01:34:01,636 --> 01:34:03,035
and I said, "Do a Polaroid."
1589
01:34:03,137 --> 01:34:04,804
(camera whirs)
1590
01:34:04,906 --> 01:34:07,440
I brought it to Robert, he was
like, "Wow. That's good."
1591
01:34:07,542 --> 01:34:09,241
His knee started to hurt,
1592
01:34:09,343 --> 01:34:12,244
so we put a chair
in for him to sit on.
1593
01:34:15,349 --> 01:34:18,350
That's the classic masterpiece picture.
1594
01:34:18,453 --> 01:34:20,252
It's a tremendous photograph,
1595
01:34:20,354 --> 01:34:23,088
one of the greatest self-portraits of all time.
1596
01:34:31,299 --> 01:34:33,766
Man:
It's 2:38 here in the WNBC.
1597
01:34:33,868 --> 01:34:36,035
Weather: cloudy, breezy, chance of showers
1598
01:34:36,137 --> 01:34:38,037
and thunderstorms right through the evening.
1599
01:34:38,139 --> 01:34:41,841
The low tonight in the low 60s, right now, 74 degrees.
1600
01:35:06,935 --> 01:35:10,570
Man:
There was something electric that day.
1601
01:35:10,672 --> 01:35:12,772
It wasn't just an opening.
1602
01:35:12,874 --> 01:35:15,608
It was a...
1603
01:35:15,710 --> 01:35:19,645
a memorial
with a living corpse.
1604
01:35:21,148 --> 01:35:22,782
Colacello:
Your heart just went out to him
1605
01:35:22,884 --> 01:35:25,417
because here he was having the success that he dreamed of
1606
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:29,021
from those days in
coffee shops in the Village,
1607
01:35:29,123 --> 01:35:33,593
and, you know,
you could tell he was dying.
1608
01:35:37,431 --> 01:35:39,198
Not too much.
1609
01:35:39,300 --> 01:35:43,235
This is-- someone took
this picture of me
1610
01:35:43,337 --> 01:35:45,304
taking a picture of him.
1611
01:35:45,406 --> 01:35:48,440
He knew what I was doing there.
1612
01:35:49,711 --> 01:35:51,544
I think he understood
the whole thing.
1613
01:35:51,646 --> 01:35:54,446
He didn't like it,
but he understood it.
1614
01:35:54,549 --> 01:35:57,449
I think that was
his proudest day, I really do.
1615
01:35:57,552 --> 01:36:01,120
He looked like the king sitting there.
1616
01:36:05,159 --> 01:36:10,696
It had everything
from flowers to fist-fucking.
1617
01:36:10,798 --> 01:36:13,933
And I had to go around
the room with my mother
in a wheelchair.
1618
01:36:16,938 --> 01:36:18,170
Wow, yeah.
1619
01:36:18,272 --> 01:36:20,006
When I saw
the one with the whip,
1620
01:36:20,107 --> 01:36:21,874
I said, "Oh, my God."
1621
01:36:21,976 --> 01:36:24,944
And I ran
and go to my kids and--
1622
01:36:25,046 --> 01:36:28,781
"That's him?
It was a self-portrait?"
1623
01:36:28,883 --> 01:36:31,350
Edward:
He loved attention,
1624
01:36:31,452 --> 01:36:35,521
even though it had to do with the fact that he was a dying man,
1625
01:36:35,623 --> 01:36:36,923
it didn't matter.
1626
01:36:37,025 --> 01:36:41,093
Becker:
It was one picture. I mean it stunned people.
1627
01:36:41,195 --> 01:36:46,532
We all sort of were under
the impression it was gonna
be this glorious article,
1628
01:36:46,634 --> 01:36:50,069
when in fact,
that was sad.
Yeah.
1629
01:36:50,171 --> 01:36:52,672
I'm sure he sawhis own mortality... Yeah.
1630
01:36:52,774 --> 01:36:54,774
...very clearlyat that moment.
1631
01:36:54,876 --> 01:36:59,679
His image out there,
this handsome, vain,
elegant creature,
1632
01:36:59,781 --> 01:37:06,151
and people really were shocked.
1633
01:37:06,253 --> 01:37:10,322
I mean, come on, it was like,
he was alive.
1634
01:37:20,034 --> 01:37:22,434
Woman:
Working with Robert Mapplethorpe has been
1635
01:37:22,536 --> 01:37:24,103
my most enlightening
1636
01:37:24,205 --> 01:37:27,039
and rewarding curatorial
experience.
1637
01:37:27,141 --> 01:37:32,177
I felt that Robert
Mapplethorpe's work
was so important.
1638
01:37:32,279 --> 01:37:36,616
So I went to New Yorkand visited him at his studio.
1639
01:37:36,718 --> 01:37:39,785
We started to talk.
He was very easy to talk to.
1640
01:37:39,887 --> 01:37:44,590
I felt after five minutes
that I had known him
a long time.
1641
01:37:44,659 --> 01:37:47,426
Mapplethorpe:
Have you ever seen the X, Y, Z portfolios?
1642
01:37:47,528 --> 01:37:52,732
There's an X portfolio which is sex pictures, there's 13 of them,
1643
01:37:52,834 --> 01:37:55,467
and then there's Y which is flowers,
1644
01:37:55,569 --> 01:37:57,737
and the Z which is blacks.
1645
01:37:57,839 --> 01:38:03,275
He was particularly interested
in showing the X, Y, Z series,
1646
01:38:03,377 --> 01:38:07,212
which had not been shown
before in its entirety.
1647
01:38:07,314 --> 01:38:09,481
Mapplethorpe:
It may be interesting to have a wall
1648
01:38:09,583 --> 01:38:12,084
where you have a row of X, Y, and Z
1649
01:38:12,186 --> 01:38:15,254
on one mass, sort of, in three rows of something.
1650
01:38:15,356 --> 01:38:17,923
Kardon:
We devised a way of displaying them
1651
01:38:18,026 --> 01:38:24,329
in a case that would be so high that a child could not see into it,
1652
01:38:24,431 --> 01:38:27,466
but an adult could look down upon it.
1653
01:38:27,568 --> 01:38:30,703
I remember showing my husband
some of the pictures
1654
01:38:30,805 --> 01:38:33,839
before the exhibition opened.
1655
01:38:33,941 --> 01:38:36,375
He said, "Janet, do you
know what you're doing?"
1656
01:38:36,477 --> 01:38:41,080
But I didn't listen to him.
Maybe I was crazy.
1657
01:38:43,851 --> 01:38:46,852
(lively chattering)
1658
01:38:46,954 --> 01:38:48,187
Hi, Robert!
1659
01:38:48,289 --> 01:38:50,690
Here we are.
You're with us.
1660
01:38:50,792 --> 01:38:53,525
You're with us
and we're with you.
1661
01:38:55,329 --> 01:39:02,234
I think you can tell whether a show is successful by the sound in the gallery.
1662
01:39:02,336 --> 01:39:08,440
If people are talking a lot,
you know, somehow the show
just doesn't have it.
1663
01:39:10,644 --> 01:39:16,782
In the Mapplethorpe show,
there was silence.
1664
01:39:16,884 --> 01:39:18,984
You could hear a pin drop.
1665
01:39:38,906 --> 01:39:42,141
Edward:
This one time, it was a terrible night for Robert
1666
01:39:42,243 --> 01:39:45,811
and he was almost
hallucinating a bit
1667
01:39:45,913 --> 01:39:48,214
and he ended up pulling out
some of the IVs,
1668
01:39:48,315 --> 01:39:51,917
so I had blood dripping
out of his arm, and IVs,
1669
01:39:52,019 --> 01:39:54,887
and I had to-- he-- I know
I had to clean him up.
1670
01:39:54,989 --> 01:39:59,125
He'd shat in the bed,
and I'm like, "Oh, my God."
1671
01:39:59,227 --> 01:40:03,395
That night, Robert looked
at me teary-eyed, crying,
1672
01:40:03,497 --> 01:40:06,265
and said, "Oh, my God."
He's like, "I'm dying.
1673
01:40:09,370 --> 01:40:14,006
"I'm dying."
And I had to say, "Yeah."
1674
01:40:18,679 --> 01:40:22,414
What could you--
I couldn't-- I mean, "Yes."
1675
01:40:27,588 --> 01:40:30,890
� �
1676
01:40:32,493 --> 01:40:36,595
Robert gave a going-away
party for himself,
1677
01:40:36,697 --> 01:40:40,532
a lavish cocktail party at his loft.
1678
01:40:40,634 --> 01:40:43,235
Waiters walking around with silver trays
1679
01:40:43,337 --> 01:40:48,774
with a little tiny Bellini
and caviar and champagne.
1680
01:40:48,876 --> 01:40:51,610
It was very elegant.
1681
01:40:51,712 --> 01:40:54,379
(Mapplethorpe's voice)
1682
01:41:01,989 --> 01:41:05,624
Croland:
And Robert was sitting in the middle of the room.
1683
01:41:05,726 --> 01:41:08,794
I walked up to himand kneeled down at his feet
1684
01:41:08,896 --> 01:41:10,996
and came face-to-face with him.
1685
01:41:11,098 --> 01:41:12,764
He said,
"You still look so beautiful."
1686
01:41:12,867 --> 01:41:15,067
And I said, "Thank you."
1687
01:41:17,638 --> 01:41:19,872
I said, "What do you want me to do?"
1688
01:41:19,974 --> 01:41:23,475
He said, "I want you
to tell her everything.
1689
01:41:23,577 --> 01:41:25,744
Keep me alive."
1690
01:41:32,686 --> 01:41:35,420
Suzanne:
"March 8th. Well, this is it.
1691
01:41:35,522 --> 01:41:37,857
"The last two days have been hell.
1692
01:41:37,959 --> 01:41:40,525
"The funny part is not knowinghow to say goodbye.
1693
01:41:40,627 --> 01:41:44,830
"Letting go. Are words enough?"
1694
01:41:44,932 --> 01:41:47,532
I was just like,
"Come on, Robert."
1695
01:41:47,634 --> 01:41:49,235
Just like have
a conversation with me
1696
01:41:49,337 --> 01:41:51,136
and just say, "You know what,
I'm proud of you,
1697
01:41:51,239 --> 01:41:55,107
and just keep it going,
and just do good work."
1698
01:41:55,209 --> 01:41:58,610
And... never got it.
1699
01:41:58,712 --> 01:42:01,146
Never got it.
1700
01:42:02,683 --> 01:42:05,150
(woman speaking)
1701
01:42:05,253 --> 01:42:08,087
Mapplethorpe:
Some days, yes, and some days, no.
1702
01:42:08,189 --> 01:42:10,022
You know, on a daily basis,
1703
01:42:10,124 --> 01:42:12,858
I would say in any given day,I'm happy part of the time
1704
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:14,526
and not the rest, you know.
1705
01:42:14,628 --> 01:42:18,330
I think I'm a perfectionist and I think it's hard to be happy
1706
01:42:18,432 --> 01:42:20,432
if you like things to be perfect
1707
01:42:20,534 --> 01:42:22,701
because things are not perfect.
1708
01:42:35,950 --> 01:42:38,150
� �
1709
01:42:38,252 --> 01:42:40,685
Helms: I don't know whether the television cameras can see it or not.
1710
01:42:40,788 --> 01:42:43,022
I'm gonna be fast enough with it that they can't.
1711
01:42:43,124 --> 01:42:46,825
But I want senators to come over here, if they have any doubt
1712
01:42:46,928 --> 01:42:48,693
and look at the pictures.
1713
01:42:48,796 --> 01:42:50,362
Protesters (chanting):
Keep your hands off!
1714
01:42:50,464 --> 01:42:52,531
Helms:
I don't even acknowledge that it's art.
1715
01:42:52,633 --> 01:42:54,766
Protesters:
Keep your hands off! Get your hands off!
1716
01:42:54,868 --> 01:42:56,201
Helms:
I don't even acknowledge
1717
01:42:56,304 --> 01:42:58,003
that the fellow who did it was an artist.
1718
01:42:58,105 --> 01:42:59,338
I think he was a jerk.
1719
01:42:59,440 --> 01:43:02,674
Protesters:
Keep your hands off! Get your hands off!
1720
01:43:02,776 --> 01:43:05,444
Keep your hands off! Keep your hands off!
1721
01:43:05,546 --> 01:43:08,347
Keep your hands off! Keep your hands off!
1722
01:43:08,449 --> 01:43:10,782
Woman:
This line is
for two o'clock only.
1723
01:43:10,884 --> 01:43:14,019
You need a pass to get in
to see the exhibition.
1724
01:43:25,699 --> 01:43:27,499
Man:
It happened.
1725
01:43:27,601 --> 01:43:30,836
What you're watching now is the Cincinnati Police as they made their move today
1726
01:43:30,938 --> 01:43:32,471
against The Contemporary Arts Center.
1727
01:43:32,573 --> 01:43:33,772
Woman:
They temporarily closed
1728
01:43:33,874 --> 01:43:35,841
the controversial Robert Mapplethorpe exhibit
1729
01:43:35,943 --> 01:43:40,879
that resulted in charges todayagainst The Contemporary ArtsCenter and its director.
1730
01:43:40,982 --> 01:43:43,815
It's an important exhibition.
It's important for this city
1731
01:43:43,917 --> 01:43:45,384
that it be seen here.
1732
01:43:45,486 --> 01:43:48,753
(angry shouting)
1733
01:43:48,856 --> 01:43:52,091
Man:
It was suggested that I wear a bulletproof vest.
1734
01:43:52,193 --> 01:43:54,659
There would be calls to
the home or calls to my office
1735
01:43:54,761 --> 01:43:56,428
saying, "We're gonna
kill your children."
1736
01:44:34,568 --> 01:44:36,402
Dan Rather:
The art gallery and its director
1737
01:44:36,504 --> 01:44:40,705
are charged with obscenityfor exhibiting photographs bythe late Robert Mapplethorpe.
1738
01:44:43,411 --> 01:44:44,876
(gavel banging)
1739
01:44:44,978 --> 01:44:47,246
Reporter:
The jury took about two hoursto come up with its decision.
1740
01:44:47,348 --> 01:44:50,015
(man reading)
We, the jury in this case,
find the defendant not guilty
1741
01:44:50,117 --> 01:44:53,052
of pandering obscenity.
(crowd cheering)
1742
01:44:53,154 --> 01:44:55,387
Judge:
Order! Order!
1743
01:44:55,489 --> 01:44:57,456
(gavel banging)
1744
01:45:00,827 --> 01:45:03,495
(gavel banging)
1745
01:45:03,597 --> 01:45:06,432
Auctioneer:
Next up is the Robert Mapplethorpe Flag,
1746
01:45:06,534 --> 01:45:09,801
the great "Star-Spangled
Banner," gelatin silver print,
1747
01:45:09,903 --> 01:45:12,804
for $48,000.
Now goes to 48,000,
1748
01:45:12,906 --> 01:45:16,641
48,000, 50, 55,000,
60, 65,000. Thank you, ma'am.
1749
01:45:16,743 --> 01:45:18,477
He was always
giving me his work.
1750
01:45:18,579 --> 01:45:20,345
$70,000 with Caroline.
1751
01:45:20,448 --> 01:45:23,615
I had, at least, half a dozen
photographs and a collage.
1752
01:45:23,717 --> 01:45:25,117
$70,000.
1753
01:45:25,219 --> 01:45:26,952
Don't ask me what
I did with this, please,
1754
01:45:27,054 --> 01:45:31,990
because if I kept it,
I wouldn't be here.
I'd be in my villa in Tuscany.
1755
01:45:32,093 --> 01:45:34,759
I can't discuss,
too upsetting.
1756
01:45:34,861 --> 01:45:36,295
Sold!
1757
01:45:36,397 --> 01:45:37,362
I threw it away.
1758
01:45:37,465 --> 01:45:38,564
Sold!
1759
01:45:38,665 --> 01:45:39,631
When I moved.
1760
01:45:39,733 --> 01:45:40,832
Sold!
1761
01:45:40,934 --> 01:45:43,402
Lebowitz:
I told this once to an art dealer.
1762
01:45:43,504 --> 01:45:45,670
And he said, "I can't believe
you didn't know
1763
01:45:45,772 --> 01:45:50,242
"that someone as ambitious as
Robert-- as clearly ambitious,
wouldn't become famous."
1764
01:45:50,344 --> 01:45:52,511
And I said, "No one could have imagined
1765
01:45:52,613 --> 01:45:55,680
"that photographs would be so valuable financially."
1766
01:45:55,782 --> 01:45:58,250
Because they weren't.
No photographs were.
1767
01:45:58,352 --> 01:46:01,620
It wasn't just
that I couldn't imagine it.
No one could imagine it.
1768
01:46:06,793 --> 01:46:13,765
Whatever it took
to become Robert Mapplethorpe
1769
01:46:13,867 --> 01:46:15,934
is what it was gonna take
1770
01:46:16,036 --> 01:46:20,772
and it took
his life to do it...
1771
01:46:23,577 --> 01:46:25,377
Literally.
1772
01:46:29,150 --> 01:46:32,050
� �
1773
01:46:45,299 --> 01:46:48,500
� �
1774
01:47:08,055 --> 01:47:10,255
Man:
Mapplethorpe by himself,
the name is really great.
1775
01:47:10,357 --> 01:47:13,292
It's like Titian or Piranesi.
1776
01:47:13,394 --> 01:47:15,794
Just the name,
that's all you need
1777
01:47:15,896 --> 01:47:17,696
is the last name
to recognize the artist.
1778
01:47:17,798 --> 01:47:19,565
It's so clear and simple.
1779
01:47:19,667 --> 01:47:23,202
What if you stacked
three images into the...
1780
01:47:23,304 --> 01:47:26,137
We can't have nudity
on the street banners
'cause the city regulations.
1781
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:29,841
So that's one point
of discussion,
second is the color.
1782
01:47:29,943 --> 01:47:33,745
This is a mock-up
of the invitation
for our opening reception.
1783
01:47:33,847 --> 01:47:37,216
His self-portrait
on the front,
then inside message.
1784
01:47:37,318 --> 01:47:39,318
Then the RSVP card.
1785
01:47:39,420 --> 01:47:44,223
It's just an innocuous flower,
not anything that the Post
Office would object to.
1786
01:47:44,325 --> 01:47:46,491
I'm not planning to put
a curtain, but I'm sure
1787
01:47:46,594 --> 01:47:50,362
there'll be some kind
of warning on the gallery
as people go in.
1788
01:47:50,464 --> 01:47:53,232
Well, and with her holding
her sculpture.
1789
01:47:53,334 --> 01:47:55,467
-Oh, that was purposeful.
-Yeah, it's so great.
1790
01:47:55,569 --> 01:47:58,604
I wanted to put
Louise Bourgeois holding
her sculpture, Lafayette,
1791
01:47:58,706 --> 01:48:03,542
which looks like a phallus,
next to the picture of
"Man in the Polyester Suit."
1792
01:48:03,644 --> 01:48:07,279
-Yes, with his actual phallus.
-It's a curatorial pun.
1793
01:48:07,381 --> 01:48:11,717
� �
203812
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